Practicing religion without force

[Sky Dancer]

No one's judging you, look in the mirror and that's where you'll see the judge.

When I look in the mirror I see a kind face and a person who is ok with me being vulnerable and having residual feelings about the Catholic Church. I see the face of Tara, mother of all the buddhas of the three times.

I don't see anyone who is scowling, telling me I have no right to feel the way I do.

Again...as far as i see it...another Freudian slip.

I really feel you need to work on the issues you have with your mother.

I have no issues with my mother other than missing her dearly. She died in 1998.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You volunteer to be counseled by stepping into the ring.

No. I am not asking for counseling. I am sharing my personal experiences.

And sharing your personal experiences is stepping into the ring.


Again if you dont like what you get back on a message board you may want to reconsider your participation on message boards.

What i read of maries post... what she said was in a kindly fashion. It was not an attack. I am sure she did not say it to hurt your feelings.

I didn't say Marie's post was an attack. If you read my initial response to her you will see that I said I knew she meant no harm. Nonetheless, I was hurt and offended by her post.

Again, Marie and I have worked this out. What is it with you and Newby that you haven't?

If you and Newby are aspiring counselors there is a lot I can teach you. It's my profession.

Counseling 101: You don't tell someone they have no right to their feelings. What you are teaching people,when they are in counseling, is self-acceptance.

 

[syrenn]

This is very gamey. You insinuate there is some freudian slip in my post and refuse to point it out.

Read your post. It is totally off base in the conversation over the last few pages. You insert a "hypothetical" situation of which i do not believe is so "hypothetical" for you.

You not only don't understand what force is, but also the nature of a Freudian slip. I believe you have misplaced anger issues with your mother and grandmother.

I have no anger toward my mother or grandmother. Neither were abusive to me. I do have some wounds that haven't fully healed from the abuse I received in my childhood from my foster parent in a Catholic Charities home.

It was doubly damaging because of the way religion was inserted into the abuse inappropriately.
Do you really judge me harshly for seeking another path? Walk in my shoes.

No i do not judge you harshly at all. It makes no difference to me what "path" you are on so long as you are a good kind person. If you think i say what i am saying because you are buddhist...get over it. I am not.

I don't know your past.... i assumed your mother and grandmother. Either way...you have anger issues with whoever it was who "forced" you. It is not about the "religion" it is about the person.

All abuse is inappropriate. Religion was only a tool they used on you for control.

 

[syrenn]

I did not volunteer to be counseled on my spiritual choices or to be proselytized. Some of you might consider what would have happened if I had told Marie that she needed Buddha and that Christianity wasn't her true path, or anyone's true path at all. Further, that I had a group of Buddhists posting on here that would put her down when she objected to me 'questioning her faith' and tell her she had no right to her feelings.

You volunteer to be counseled by stepping into the ring.

I just don't understand why she thinks she has the right to tell anyone else what they can and cannot post, it's a free board.

its a PC world we live in these days.... no one is "supposed" to offend anyone else.

 

[AllieBaba]

No, nobody is supposed to offend Sky.

Sky may offend whomever she wants, and she's *engaging in civil discourse*.

Anyone offends her (and she's easily offended) it's abuse and harassment.

That's how it works.

 

[syrenn]

When I look in the mirror I see a kind face and a person who is ok with me being vulnerable and having residual feelings about the Catholic Church. I see the face of Tara, mother of all the buddhas of the three times.

I don't see anyone who is scowling, telling me I have no right to feel the way I do.

Again...as far as i see it...another Freudian slip.

I really feel you need to work on the issues you have with your mother.

I have no issues with my mother other than missing her dearly. She died in 1998.

I am sorry about your mother...


I retract the mother comments. Sorry about that..as i did not know your past

You have anger issues with your foster....get some help on that one sky.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Read your post. It is totally off base in the conversation over the last few pages. You insert a "hypothetical" situation of which i do not believe is so "hypothetical" for you.

You not only don't understand what force is, but also the nature of a Freudian slip. I believe you have misplaced anger issues with your mother and grandmother.

I have no anger toward my mother or grandmother. Neither were abusive to me. I do have some wounds that haven't fully healed from the abuse I received in my childhood from my foster parent in a Catholic Charities home.

It was doubly damaging because of the way religion was inserted into the abuse inappropriately.
Do you really judge me harshly for seeking another path? Walk in my shoes.

No i do not judge you harshly at all. It makes no difference to me what "path" you are on so long as you are a good kind person. If you think i say what i am saying because you are buddhist...get over it. I am not.

I don't know your past.... i assumed your mother and grandmother. Either way...you have anger issues with whoever it was who "forced" you. It is not about the "religion" it is about the person.

All abuse is inappropriate. Religion was only a tool they used on you for control.

Exactly, which is why I started the discussion on the use of force in religion.

I have my wounds, I also have excellent resources in my RL to work through my hurt and anger.

I am not indicting Christianity, Catholicism or any other religion. I am discussing the issue of control and choice.

If you are born into a certain religion, you have no choice until you become an adult. If your models are people who misuse the religion, then more than likely you will not adopt that religion in your adult life.

I've been very fortunate with Buddhism. No one has forced me to believe anything. I've been encouraged to ask questions and to adopt what seems true and leave what doesn't.

 

[syrenn]

No. I am not asking for counseling. I am sharing my personal experiences.

And sharing your personal experiences is stepping into the ring.


Again if you dont like what you get back on a message board you may want to reconsider your participation on message boards.

What i read of maries post... what she said was in a kindly fashion. It was not an attack. I am sure she did not say it to hurt your feelings.

I didn't say Marie's post was an attack. If you read my initial response to her you will see that I said I knew she meant no harm. Nonetheless, I was hurt and offended by her post.

Again, Marie and I have worked this out. What is it with you and Newby that you haven't?

If you and Newby are aspiring counselors there is a lot I can teach you. It's my profession.

Counseling 101: You don't tell someone they have no right to their feelings. What you are teaching people,when they are in counseling, is self-acceptance.

Did i say you have no right to your feelings? And for someone who is a counselor...i am surprised you did not know what a Freudian slip was and or recognize one when it occurred.

 

[Sky Dancer]

No, nobody is supposed to offend Sky.

Sky may offend whomever she wants, and she's *engaging in civil discourse*.

Anyone offends her (and she's easily offended) it's abuse and harassment.

That's how it works.

No Allie. That's not how I see it at all. People are free to say whatever they choose. If I feel offended I am free to say so. If someone calls me names I am free to ask them to stop. If they choose not to, I am free to not respond to their posts.

Name calling, such as calling someone a 'fucking bitch' is abusive. I have a right to set limits as to what I will put up with and what I won't.

When my posts offend, it would be helpful to put the post in your response so I know what sentence you're reacting to.

 

[Sky Dancer]

And sharing your personal experiences is stepping into the ring.


Again if you dont like what you get back on a message board you may want to reconsider your participation on message boards.

What i read of maries post... what she said was in a kindly fashion. It was not an attack. I am sure she did not say it to hurt your feelings.

I didn't say Marie's post was an attack. If you read my initial response to her you will see that I said I knew she meant no harm. Nonetheless, I was hurt and offended by her post.

Again, Marie and I have worked this out. What is it with you and Newby that you haven't?

If you and Newby are aspiring counselors there is a lot I can teach you. It's my profession.

Counseling 101: You don't tell someone they have no right to their feelings. What you are teaching people,when they are in counseling, is self-acceptance.

Did i say you have no right to your feelings? And for someone who is a counselor...i am surprised you did not know what a Freudian slip was and or recognize one when it occurred.

I know what a Freudian slip is. What I couldn't figure out was what you were calling a Freudian slip.

I disagree that I made one in that post. I have made Freudian slips before in my life, most of them were sexual and I felt embarassed by them.

I feel no embarassment about what I've written today.

 

[syrenn]

I have no anger toward my mother or grandmother. Neither were abusive to me. I do have some wounds that haven't fully healed from the abuse I received in my childhood from my foster parent in a Catholic Charities home.

It was doubly damaging because of the way religion was inserted into the abuse inappropriately.
Do you really judge me harshly for seeking another path? Walk in my shoes.

No i do not judge you harshly at all. It makes no difference to me what "path" you are on so long as you are a good kind person. If you think i say what i am saying because you are buddhist...get over it. I am not.

I don't know your past.... i assumed your mother and grandmother. Either way...you have anger issues with whoever it was who "forced" you. It is not about the "religion" it is about the person.

All abuse is inappropriate. Religion was only a tool they used on you for control.

Exactly, which is why I started the discussion on the use of force in religion.

I have my wounds, I also have excellent resources in my RL to work through my hurt and anger.

I am not indicting Christianity, Catholicism or any other religion. I am discussing the issue of control and choice.

If you are born into a certain religion, you have no choice until you become an adult. If your models are people who misuse the religion, then more than likely you will not adopt that religion in your adult life.

I've been very fortunate with Buddhism. No one has forced me to believe anything. I've been encouraged to ask questions and to adopt what seems true and leave what doesn't.

There is no force in religion in and of itself. The only force is by the ones indoctrinating them into religion.


What the hell sky...the bolded part. Isnt that what i have said from the beginning of this thread? It makes NO difference if you are taught religion in a good way or bad...it is ALL force. Teaching is force. No religion is better or worse.....it is ALL indoctrination.

 

[Sky Dancer]

And sharing your personal experiences is stepping into the ring.


Again if you dont like what you get back on a message board you may want to reconsider your participation on message boards.

What i read of maries post... what she said was in a kindly fashion. It was not an attack. I am sure she did not say it to hurt your feelings.

I didn't say Marie's post was an attack. If you read my initial response to her you will see that I said I knew she meant no harm. Nonetheless, I was hurt and offended by her post.

Again, Marie and I have worked this out. What is it with you and Newby that you haven't?

If you and Newby are aspiring counselors there is a lot I can teach you. It's my profession.

Counseling 101: You don't tell someone they have no right to their feelings. What you are teaching people,when they are in counseling, is self-acceptance.

Did i say you have no right to your feelings? And for someone who is a counselor...i am surprised you did not know what a Freudian slip was and or recognize one when it occurred.

No. You didn't say that. Newby did. Newby said I had no right to feel hurt or offended and then started polling other posters to see if they would all agree I had no right to feel hurt.

 

[syrenn]

I didn't say Marie's post was an attack. If you read my initial response to her you will see that I said I knew she meant no harm. Nonetheless, I was hurt and offended by her post.

Again, Marie and I have worked this out. What is it with you and Newby that you haven't?

If you and Newby are aspiring counselors there is a lot I can teach you. It's my profession.

Counseling 101: You don't tell someone they have no right to their feelings. What you are teaching people,when they are in counseling, is self-acceptance.

Did i say you have no right to your feelings? And for someone who is a counselor...i am surprised you did not know what a Freudian slip was and or recognize one when it occurred.

I know what a Freudian slip is. What I couldn't figure out was what you were calling a Freudian slip.

I disagree that I made one in that post. I have made Freudian slips before in my life, most of them were sexual and I felt embarassed by them.

I feel no embarassment about what I've written today.

Embarrassment is not the indicator of a Freudian slip. I think you need to re evaluate your comments in this thread.

 

[Sky Dancer]

No i do not judge you harshly at all. It makes no difference to me what "path" you are on so long as you are a good kind person. If you think i say what i am saying because you are buddhist...get over it. I am not.

I don't know your past.... i assumed your mother and grandmother. Either way...you have anger issues with whoever it was who "forced" you. It is not about the "religion" it is about the person.

All abuse is inappropriate. Religion was only a tool they used on you for control.

Exactly, which is why I started the discussion on the use of force in religion.

I have my wounds, I also have excellent resources in my RL to work through my hurt and anger.

I am not indicting Christianity, Catholicism or any other religion. I am discussing the issue of control and choice.

If you are born into a certain religion, you have no choice until you become an adult. If your models are people who misuse the religion, then more than likely you will not adopt that religion in your adult life.

I've been very fortunate with Buddhism. No one has forced me to believe anything. I've been encouraged to ask questions and to adopt what seems true and leave what doesn't.

There is no force in religion in and of itself. The only force is by the ones indoctrinating them into religion.


What the hell sky...the bolded part. Isnt that what i have said from the beginning of this thread? It makes NO difference if you are taught religion in a good way or bad...it is ALL force. Teaching is force. No religion is better or worse.....it is ALL indoctrination.

Actually, Christianity is the better religion for Christians, Islam for Muslims and Buddhism for me. I freely chose Buddhism and no one forced me into anything.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Did i say you have no right to your feelings? And for someone who is a counselor...i am surprised you did not know what a Freudian slip was and or recognize one when it occurred.

I know what a Freudian slip is. What I couldn't figure out was what you were calling a Freudian slip.

I disagree that I made one in that post. I have made Freudian slips before in my life, most of them were sexual and I felt embarassed by them.

I feel no embarassment about what I've written today.

Embarrassment is not the indicator of a Freudian slip. I think you need to re evaluate your comments in this thread.

I'll take your opinion under advisement. Maybe you should start a Freudian slip thread. Here's a joke. Sky showed up wearing only her Freudian slip.

 

[Foxfyre]

Okay I've read most of the thread now.

1. I grew up with alcoholism and was physically and emotionally abused by a religious fanatic who happened to be Methodist. Yes I was exposed to that particular faith as well as others in our somewhat ecumenical family and also diverse traditions among my friends. The fact that my childhood was partially ruined by all this and I was exposed to a very distorted view of what Christians do, that is NOT a condemnation of Methodism any more than a bad experience among Roman Catholics merits a blanket condemnation of the RCC.

Moral of story: anecdotal evidence can expose the warts and flaws but rarely shows one the big picture.

2. Sky was raised RCC and is now a Buddhist. I was raised Methodist and have not been Methodist since leaving home. My sister was raised Methodist and married into the RCC and embraced that faith for a long time. Another here was raised strong Lutheran and has disengaged from that dicipline. Many others here no doubt grew up in this or that faith and no longer practice those particular traditions.

Moral of story: exposure to religion is certainly not 'forcing' nor does it or can it disallow thinking for oneself which all of us apparently did quite successfully.

3. In disagreement with Zander(?) I think it was, I call myself Christian not because I embrace any particular religious tradition but because I have a relationship with the living Christ. I can no more deny that and be honest than I can deny being of the human species. Because I know first hand the value and importance and necessity (for me) of that relationship, it would be tantamount to child abuse to withhold that opportunity from my children.

Moral of story: Exposure to ideas, principles, concepts, facts, ideas is opportunity. Denial or prohibiting exposure to ideas, principles, concepts, facts, ideas is 'forcing' or more correctly, 'indoctrination'.

4. It strikes me as incongruous to on one hand describe exposure to religious concepts as 'forcing' except when one does it himself/herself when it miraculously becomes 'counseling',

 

[syrenn]

I didn't say Marie's post was an attack. If you read my initial response to her you will see that I said I knew she meant no harm. Nonetheless, I was hurt and offended by her post.

Again, Marie and I have worked this out. What is it with you and Newby that you haven't?

If you and Newby are aspiring counselors there is a lot I can teach you. It's my profession.

Counseling 101: You don't tell someone they have no right to their feelings. What you are teaching people,when they are in counseling, is self-acceptance.

Did i say you have no right to your feelings? And for someone who is a counselor...i am surprised you did not know what a Freudian slip was and or recognize one when it occurred.

No. You didn't say that. Newby did. Newby said I had no right to feel hurt or offended and then started polling other posters to see if they would all agree I had no right to feel hurt.

I don't think newby was polling anyone. You do seem to feel that everyone is in some gang to get you though. This is the second time in this thread that your say as much to me. First you say i am in league with allie...and now newby. That is a bit paranoid sky.

It looks as if you say that i am saying you dont have the right to have your feelings hurt as it is me that you quote and respond to. I have no idea what went on in that thread...i only read the permalink of maires post and gave an opinion on that post.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Two men are talking in the bar sharing their sob stories.

One man says, "I had the worst Freudian Slip the other day."

The other man responds, "What is a Freudian Slip?"

"You know, it's when you mean to say one thing, but you say something else that reveals what you are really thinking about. Like the other day I was at the airport and this really beautiful lady was helping me. Instead of asking her for 'two tickets to Pittsburgh', I asked her for 'to Pickets to Tittsburgh."

he second replies, "Oh, now I know what you are talking about. It's like the other day when I was having breakfast with my wife. I wanted her to pass me the Orange Juice, and instead I said, "YOU RUINED MY LIFE!"

 

[Sky Dancer]

Did i say you have no right to your feelings? And for someone who is a counselor...i am surprised you did not know what a Freudian slip was and or recognize one when it occurred.

No. You didn't say that. Newby did. Newby said I had no right to feel hurt or offended and then started polling other posters to see if they would all agree I had no right to feel hurt.

I don't think newby was polling anyone. You do seem to feel that everyone is in some gang to get you though. This is the second time in this thread that your say as much to me. First you say i am in league with allie...and now newby. That is a bit paranoid sky.

It looks as if you say that i am saying you dont have the right to have your feelings hurt as it is me that you quote and respond to. I have no idea what went on in that thread...i only read the permalink of maires post and gave an opinion on that post.

Here's another joke: "Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean you aren't all out to get me!"

No, I don't think there is a coordinated, "mean girls club" out to get me. I do think there is a tendency on some message boards to gang up on posters.

It can feel that way sometimes, doesn't mean it's intentional.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I was exposed to a very distorted view of what Christians do, that is NOT a condemnation of Methodism any more than a bad experience among Roman Catholics merits a blanket condemnation of the RCC.

Moral of story: anecdotal evidence can expose the warts and flaws but rarely shows one the big picture.

I agree Foxfyre. I hope you see that I am in no way blanketly condemning the RCC. It was a mixed bag for me. I did get some good things out of it, and I can see that others benefit from it where I don't.