Pregnant Women Lose Civil Rights

[RKMBrown]

So you actually think "god" want's his children dead? wow

Your God is responsible for millions of spontaneous abortions on a daily basis all around the world.

huh?

 

[Derideo_Te]

The Op is a raving lunatic.

 

[Ernie S.]

I hold that killing a baby is not a basic human right.

If you know of anyone killing babies I suggest that you contact the authorities.

A pre-viable fetus is not a baby.

At that point the fetus only has whatever rights the woman concerned is willing to grant it. You don't get to deprive her of her rights.

Your opinion. I do not share it. Your opinions and political positions are not facts. Granted, mine are not either, but you seem to feel justified in ridiculing those who hold opposing views.

 

[RKMBrown]

You are one evil POS. You just can't wait to kill babies can you.

what kind of POS would say THAT ^ to conscientious women concerned about this EVIL political trend...?

I don't know but they should be reminded of the rules against personal attacks.

You mean like the OP?

 

[Ernie S.]

I'm leaning towards mandatory abortions for Liberals.

So you're not against abortion. Just against abortion for some people.

Wow.

duh

 

[jwoodie]

How can you claim that a woman is brain dead and put on life support to save the life of the baby, THEN claim that the rights of a living woman were violated?

She and her husband were EMTs and knew what paperwork to complete to prevent being put on machines.

She had a written Do Not Resuscitate and written orders to never hook her up to a machine.

The husband tried to prevent it and then later tried to get the machines turned off. The hospital refused and the husband had to go to court to get the machines turned off. Her husband's and her civil rights were violated.

As with all the women in that article. One of the women died.

So where is the civil rights of the unborn who also have no voice?

Per RvW the civil rights of the woman concerned take precedence in the first 2 trimesters. In the 3rd trimester only instances where the life of the woman is threatened do the rights of the "unborn" have to give way to the rights of the "already born" AKA the woman concerned. Otherwise the rights of the "unborn" take precedence.

Do you oppose 3rd trimester "unborns" having rights? Why or why not? Let's see you put your IQ to work...

 

[Dana7360]

We have a certain segment of our population who wants to meddle in and control the lives of others. Basic rights, as guaranteed by our Constitution, have no meaning to them.

Women are now being put in jail for having miscarriages. Women are now being forced to have medical procedures that they don't want. One woman died because of it. We even saw a dead woman hooked up to machines to incubate a mostly dead fetus. She was 14 weeks pregnant when she was found not breathing.

We will see more of this happening in America.

I'm so glad I don't live in one of those states. If I did, I would find some way to move to a state like mine where this sort of thing can't happen. I've told my daughter that it's not safe for her to go to those states with these laws. I've told her that she will not only lose her birth control but be made a criminal for trying to save her life if her pregnancy goes wrong.

Unless you are hallucinating, please provide an example of a woman being put in jail for having a miscarriage.

I feel sorry for your daughter. Hopefully, therapy will help her cope with having a psychotic parent.

You didn't read the article. It listed several women who were arrested and put in jail for miscarriages. One was woman was locked up for over a year.

You acknowledge that you have nothing to justify such actions taken against pregnant women. The fact that you had to personally attack me and call me names proves you don't have any logical or humane excuses for what's happening to women.

Since you didn't read the article I'll post some of the cases of women being arrested and put in jail for having a miscarriage. One was arrested for having a still birth of a twin.

In Iowa, a pregnant woman who fell down a flight of stairs was reported to the police after seeking help at a hospital. She was arrested for “attempted fetal homicide.”

In Utah, a woman gave birth to twins; one was stillborn. Health care providers believed that the stillbirth was the result of the woman’s decision to delay having a cesarean. She was arrested on charges of fetal homicide.

In Louisiana, a woman who went to the hospital for unexplained vaginal bleeding was locked up for over a year on charges of second-degree murder before medical records revealed she had suffered a miscarriage at 11 to 15 weeks of pregnancy.

Florida has had a number of such cases. In one, a woman was held prisoner at a hospital to prevent her from going home while she appeared to be experiencing a miscarriage. She was forced to undergo a cesarean. Neither the detention nor the surgery prevented the pregnancy loss, but they did keep this mother from caring for her two small children at home. While a state court later found the detention unlawful, the opinion suggested that if the hospital had taken her prisoner later in her pregnancy, its actions might have been permissible.

In another case, a woman who had been in labor at home was picked up by a sheriff, strapped down in the back of an ambulance, taken to a hospital, and forced to have a cesarean she did not want. When this mother later protested what had happened, a court concluded that the woman’s personal constitutional rights “clearly did not outweigh the interests of the State of Florida in preserving the life of the unborn child.”

 

[Derideo_Te]

So you actually think "god" want's his children dead? wow

Your God is responsible for millions of spontaneous abortions on a daily basis all around the world.

huh?

Making Sense of Miscarriage Statistics

 

[RKMBrown]

We have a certain segment of our population who wants to meddle in and control the lives of others. Basic rights, as guaranteed by our Constitution, have no meaning to them.

Women are now being put in jail for having miscarriages. Women are now being forced to have medical procedures that they don't want. One woman died because of it. We even saw a dead woman hooked up to machines to incubate a mostly dead fetus. She was 14 weeks pregnant when she was found not breathing.

We will see more of this happening in America.

I'm so glad I don't live in one of those states. If I did, I would find some way to move to a state like mine where this sort of thing can't happen. I've told my daughter that it's not safe for her to go to those states with these laws. I've told her that she will not only lose her birth control but be made a criminal for trying to save her life if her pregnancy goes wrong.

Unless you are hallucinating, please provide an example of a woman being put in jail for having a miscarriage.

I feel sorry for your daughter. Hopefully, therapy will help her cope with having a psychotic parent.

You didn't read the article. It listed several women who were arrested and put in jail for miscarriages. One was woman was locked up for over a year.

You acknowledge that you have nothing to justify such actions taken against pregnant women. The fact that you had to personally attack me and call me names proves you don't have any logical or humane excuses for what's happening to women.

Since you didn't read the article I'll post some of the cases of women being arrested and put in jail for having a miscarriage. One was arrested for having a still birth of a twin.

In Iowa, a pregnant woman who fell down a flight of stairs was reported to the police after seeking help at a hospital. She was arrested for “attempted fetal homicide.”

In Utah, a woman gave birth to twins; one was stillborn. Health care providers believed that the stillbirth was the result of the woman’s decision to delay having a cesarean. She was arrested on charges of fetal homicide.

In Louisiana, a woman who went to the hospital for unexplained vaginal bleeding was locked up for over a year on charges of second-degree murder before medical records revealed she had suffered a miscarriage at 11 to 15 weeks of pregnancy.

Florida has had a number of such cases. In one, a woman was held prisoner at a hospital to prevent her from going home while she appeared to be experiencing a miscarriage. She was forced to undergo a cesarean. Neither the detention nor the surgery prevented the pregnancy loss, but they did keep this mother from caring for her two small children at home. While a state court later found the detention unlawful, the opinion suggested that if the hospital had taken her prisoner later in her pregnancy, its actions might have been permissible.

In another case, a woman who had been in labor at home was picked up by a sheriff, strapped down in the back of an ambulance, taken to a hospital, and forced to have a cesarean she did not want. When this mother later protested what had happened, a court concluded that the woman’s personal constitutional rights “clearly did not outweigh the interests of the State of Florida in preserving the life of the unborn child.”

So I take it that you are a proponent of late term abortions. You'd take a full grown baby, who's head is crowning and you'd "whack" the babies head with a hammer to protect the mother's right to abort the baby right? What about moments after delivery do you also approve of killing babies after they have been born?

 

[RKMBrown]

So you actually think "god" want's his children dead? wow

Your God is responsible for millions of spontaneous abortions on a daily basis all around the world.

huh?

Making Sense of Miscarriage Statistics

My wife had 3 miscarriages before we later had three babies. I don't think it was god's will that those first three died. Sometimes stuff just happens, it's a part of life.

 

[Katzndogz]

If a woman is prosecuted for fetal homicide because she fell down the stairs it's because there is some suspicion that the loving father of the babe pushed her. She testifies against him or goes down herself.

 

[Ernie S.]

How can you claim that a woman is brain dead and put on life support to save the life of the baby, THEN claim that the rights of a living woman were violated?

She and her husband were EMTs and knew what paperwork to complete to prevent being put on machines.

She had a written Do Not Resuscitate and written orders to never hook her up to a machine.

The husband tried to prevent it and then later tried to get the machines turned off. The hospital refused and the husband had to go to court to get the machines turned off. Her husband's and her civil rights were violated.

As with all the women in that article. One of the women died.

So where is the civil rights of the unborn who also have no voice?

Per RvW the civil rights of the woman concerned take precedence in the first 2 trimesters. In the 3rd trimester only instances where the life of the woman is threatened do the rights of the "unborn" have to give way to the rights of the "already born" AKA the woman concerned. Otherwise the rights of the "unborn" take precedence.

Do you oppose 3rd trimester "unborns" having rights? Why or why not? Let's see you put your IQ to work...

 

[jwoodie]

We have a certain segment of our population who wants to meddle in and control the lives of others. Basic rights, as guaranteed by our Constitution, have no meaning to them.

Women are now being put in jail for having miscarriages. Women are now being forced to have medical procedures that they don't want. One woman died because of it. We even saw a dead woman hooked up to machines to incubate a mostly dead fetus. She was 14 weeks pregnant when she was found not breathing.

We will see more of this happening in America.

I'm so glad I don't live in one of those states. If I did, I would find some way to move to a state like mine where this sort of thing can't happen. I've told my daughter that it's not safe for her to go to those states with these laws. I've told her that she will not only lose her birth control but be made a criminal for trying to save her life if her pregnancy goes wrong.

Unless you are hallucinating, please provide an example of a woman being put in jail for having a miscarriage.

I feel sorry for your daughter. Hopefully, therapy will help her cope with having a psychotic parent.

You didn't read the article. It listed several women who were arrested and put in jail for miscarriages. One was woman was locked up for over a year.

You acknowledge that you have nothing to justify such actions taken against pregnant women. The fact that you had to personally attack me and call me names proves you don't have any logical or humane excuses for what's happening to women.

Since you didn't read the article I'll post some of the cases of women being arrested and put in jail for having a miscarriage. One was arrested for having a still birth of a twin.

In Iowa, a pregnant woman who fell down a flight of stairs was reported to the police after seeking help at a hospital. She was arrested for “attempted fetal homicide.”

In Utah, a woman gave birth to twins; one was stillborn. Health care providers believed that the stillbirth was the result of the woman’s decision to delay having a cesarean. She was arrested on charges of fetal homicide.

In Louisiana, a woman who went to the hospital for unexplained vaginal bleeding was locked up for over a year on charges of second-degree murder before medical records revealed she had suffered a miscarriage at 11 to 15 weeks of pregnancy.

Florida has had a number of such cases. In one, a woman was held prisoner at a hospital to prevent her from going home while she appeared to be experiencing a miscarriage. She was forced to undergo a cesarean. Neither the detention nor the surgery prevented the pregnancy loss, but they did keep this mother from caring for her two small children at home. While a state court later found the detention unlawful, the opinion suggested that if the hospital had taken her prisoner later in her pregnancy, its actions might have been permissible.

In another case, a woman who had been in labor at home was picked up by a sheriff, strapped down in the back of an ambulance, taken to a hospital, and forced to have a cesarean she did not want. When this mother later protested what had happened, a court concluded that the woman’s personal constitutional rights “clearly did not outweigh the interests of the State of Florida in preserving the life of the unborn child.”

None of these cases involve a woman "being put in jail for having a miscarriage," and you know it. Why the deception?

 

[Newby]

None of the stories in the op ed in the first post of this thread were linked or cited... I'm guessing they were women attempting to murder their own child while still in the womb, but after legal abortion is no longer available. Anyone that would hurt themselves while attempting to kill their own child belongs in a mental institution.

 

[Ernie S.]

So you actually think "god" want's his children dead? wow

Your God is responsible for millions of spontaneous abortions on a daily basis all around the world.

huh?

Making Sense of Miscarriage Statistics

A miscarriage is not an abortion any more than being struck by lightning is murder.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Do you oppose 3rd trimester "unborns" having rights? Why or why not?

Third trimester fetus is achieving viability in that it can survive outside the uterus. The odds of survival improve as the trimester progresses. The mortality rate for newborns at 26 weeks is significantly lower than for those in the 2nd trimester.

Chances for Survival

This was recognized by the RvW decision and that is why they gave the States the rights to regulate 3rd trimester abortions. However not all 3rd trimester fetus's will successfully make it to full term and some can actually threaten the life of the woman concerned which is why there must always be a heath exception to any regulations.

There are very few 3rd trimester abortions in spite of the hyperbolic vitriol spewed by the anti-rights groups. Those that do occur are almost always for women who actually wanted to have a child and most of them do go on to have a subsequent successful pregnancy. The disinformation in this matter is legion.

So yes, a third trimester (AKA the "unborn") do have rights administered by the state. There is no reputable doctor who will risk his medical license just to provide a 3rd trimester abortion as a matter of "convenience".

 

[Derideo_Te]

We have a certain segment of our population who wants to meddle in and control the lives of others. Basic rights, as guaranteed by our Constitution, have no meaning to them.

Women are now being put in jail for having miscarriages. Women are now being forced to have medical procedures that they don't want. One woman died because of it. We even saw a dead woman hooked up to machines to incubate a mostly dead fetus. She was 14 weeks pregnant when she was found not breathing.

We will see more of this happening in America.

I'm so glad I don't live in one of those states. If I did, I would find some way to move to a state like mine where this sort of thing can't happen. I've told my daughter that it's not safe for her to go to those states with these laws. I've told her that she will not only lose her birth control but be made a criminal for trying to save her life if her pregnancy goes wrong.

Unless you are hallucinating, please provide an example of a woman being put in jail for having a miscarriage.

I feel sorry for your daughter. Hopefully, therapy will help her cope with having a psychotic parent.

You didn't read the article. It listed several women who were arrested and put in jail for miscarriages. One was woman was locked up for over a year.

You acknowledge that you have nothing to justify such actions taken against pregnant women. The fact that you had to personally attack me and call me names proves you don't have any logical or humane excuses for what's happening to women.

Since you didn't read the article I'll post some of the cases of women being arrested and put in jail for having a miscarriage. One was arrested for having a still birth of a twin.

In Iowa, a pregnant woman who fell down a flight of stairs was reported to the police after seeking help at a hospital. She was arrested for “attempted fetal homicide.”

In Utah, a woman gave birth to twins; one was stillborn. Health care providers believed that the stillbirth was the result of the woman’s decision to delay having a cesarean. She was arrested on charges of fetal homicide.

In Louisiana, a woman who went to the hospital for unexplained vaginal bleeding was locked up for over a year on charges of second-degree murder before medical records revealed she had suffered a miscarriage at 11 to 15 weeks of pregnancy.

Florida has had a number of such cases. In one, a woman was held prisoner at a hospital to prevent her from going home while she appeared to be experiencing a miscarriage. She was forced to undergo a cesarean. Neither the detention nor the surgery prevented the pregnancy loss, but they did keep this mother from caring for her two small children at home. While a state court later found the detention unlawful, the opinion suggested that if the hospital had taken her prisoner later in her pregnancy, its actions might have been permissible.

In another case, a woman who had been in labor at home was picked up by a sheriff, strapped down in the back of an ambulance, taken to a hospital, and forced to have a cesarean she did not want. When this mother later protested what had happened, a court concluded that the woman’s personal constitutional rights “clearly did not outweigh the interests of the State of Florida in preserving the life of the unborn child.”

So I take it that you are a proponent of late term abortions. You'd take a full grown baby, who's head is crowning and you'd "whack" the babies head with a hammer to protect the mother's right to abort the baby right? What about moments after delivery do you also approve of killing babies after they have been born?

That has to be the most moronic post in this entire thread.

 

[bodecea]

How can you claim that a woman is brain dead and put on life support to save the life of the baby, THEN claim that the rights of a living woman were violated?

She and her husband were EMTs and knew what paperwork to complete to prevent being put on machines.

She had a written Do Not Resuscitate and written orders to never hook her up to a machine.

The husband tried to prevent it and then later tried to get the machines turned off. The hospital refused and the husband had to go to court to get the machines turned off. Her husband's and her civil rights were violated.

As with all the women in that article. One of the women died.

She wasn't being resuscitated. Her husband just didn't want to be saddled with a baby which is no reason to murder the baby. The civil rights of a dead person can't be violated. It's a matter of law. The dead have no civil rights. So HER civil rights were not violated. The husband's civil rights were not violated since nothing was done to him. The only person that had any civil rights was the baby.

Since Marlise did not have an abortion, it could be presumed that she wanted her baby alive. Keeping her on life support until the baby's birth is the conclusion that the evidence suggests.

Do you have any clue whatsoever as to what it would cost to keep a dead body viable for the remaining 25 weeks until that 14 week fetus reached full term? You are talking about 6 months of ICU hospitalization. Are you prepared to cover those kinds of medical costs which would probably total a couple of million dollars? Do you know any EMT's that make that kind of income? Would forcing the husband into bankruptcy not be a violation of his rights?

Another bogus argument. Hospitals routinely write off uncollectible charges, assuming there was no health insurance to begin with. Inability to pay medical bills is almost never the sole reason for bankruptcy. There is also Medicaid, which merely requires people to pay for some of these costs before the government picks up the tab.

I doubt the DNR order was signed after she became pregnant, so her wishes regarding this particular circumstance are unknown. This is analogous to a will that was executed before having children. Should their interests be ignored just because the will hadn't been updated?

Happens all the time.

 

[Derideo_Te]

None of the stories in the op ed in the first post of this thread were linked or cited.

Google is your friend.

 

[Derideo_Te]

A miscarriage is not an abortion any more than being struck by lightning is murder.

An abortion in the first or second trimester isn't murder either.

 

[jwoodie]

Do you oppose 3rd trimester "unborns" having rights? Why or why not?

Third trimester fetus is achieving viability in that it can survive outside the uterus. The odds of survival improve as the trimester progresses. The mortality rate for newborns at 26 weeks is significantly lower than for those in the 2nd trimester.

Chances for Survival

This was recognized by the RvW decision and that is why they gave the States the rights to regulate 3rd trimester abortions. However not all 3rd trimester fetus's will successfully make it to full term and some can actually threaten the life of the woman concerned which is why there must always be a heath exception to any regulations.

There are very few 3rd trimester abortions in spite of the hyperbolic vitriol spewed by the anti-rights groups. Those that do occur are almost always for women who actually wanted to have a child and most of them do go on to have a subsequent successful pregnancy. The disinformation in this matter is legion.

So yes, a third trimester (AKA the "unborn") do have rights administered by the state. There is no reputable doctor who will risk his medical license just to provide a 3rd trimester abortion as a matter of "convenience".

Do you oppose 3rd trimester "unborns" having rights? Why or why not?

Third trimester fetus is achieving viability in that it can survive outside the uterus. The odds of survival improve as the trimester progresses. The mortality rate for newborns at 26 weeks is significantly lower than for those in the 2nd trimester.

Chances for Survival

This was recognized by the RvW decision and that is why they gave the States the rights to regulate 3rd trimester abortions. However not all 3rd trimester fetus's will successfully make it to full term and some can actually threaten the life of the woman concerned which is why there must always be a heath exception to any regulations.

There are very few 3rd trimester abortions in spite of the hyperbolic vitriol spewed by the anti-rights groups. Those that do occur are almost always for women who actually wanted to have a child and most of them do go on to have a subsequent successful pregnancy. The disinformation in this matter is legion.

So yes, a third trimester (AKA the "unborn") do have rights administered by the state. There is no reputable doctor who will risk his medical license just to provide a 3rd trimester abortion as a matter of "convenience".

Why the obfuscation? I asked if YOU oppose 3rd semester "unborns" having rights (and why), obviously a question you wish to avoid. So much for intellectual honesty...