Pres. memo--execute Americans without due process

[LilOlLady]

I don't

For those here who have conveniently forgotten that Obama ordered a separate attack that killed a 16 year old American citizen simply because he didn't like his father, who was already dead, let me remind them with this article.

How does Team Obama justify killing him?

The answer Gibbs gave is chilling:

ADAMSON: ...It's an American citizen that is being targeted without due process, without trial. And, he's underage. He's a minor.

GIBBS: I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father if they are truly concerned about the well being of their children. I don't think becoming an al Qaeda jihadist terrorist is the best way to go about doing your business.
​

Again, note that this kid wasn't killed in the same drone strike as his father. He was hit by a drone strike elsewhere, and by the time he was killed, his father had already been dead for two weeks. Gibbs nevertheless defends the strike, not by arguing that the kid was a threat, or that killing him was an accident, but by saying that his late father irresponsibly joined al Qaeda terrorists. Killing an American citizen without due process on that logic ought to be grounds for impeachment. Is that the real answer? Or would the Obama Administration like to clarify its reasoning? Any Congress that respected its oversight responsibilities would get to the bottom of this.

How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American - Conor Friedersdorf - The Atlantic

I don't belive the kid was the target to be called an assination. Wrong place at the wrong time.
How many bombs did Bush drop on Iraq who was not a threat, had no WMDs that killed a million innocent Iraqi men, women and children. We are at war with Al Qaeda and there are casualties of war.

 

[Sallow]

I don't

For those here who have conveniently forgotten that Obama ordered a separate attack that killed a 16 year old American citizen simply because he didn't like his father, who was already dead, let me remind them with this article.

How does Team Obama justify killing him?

The answer Gibbs gave is chilling:

ADAMSON: ...It's an American citizen that is being targeted without due process, without trial. And, he's underage. He's a minor.

GIBBS: I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father if they are truly concerned about the well being of their children. I don't think becoming an al Qaeda jihadist terrorist is the best way to go about doing your business.
​

Again, note that this kid wasn't killed in the same drone strike as his father. He was hit by a drone strike elsewhere, and by the time he was killed, his father had already been dead for two weeks. Gibbs nevertheless defends the strike, not by arguing that the kid was a threat, or that killing him was an accident, but by saying that his late father irresponsibly joined al Qaeda terrorists. Killing an American citizen without due process on that logic ought to be grounds for impeachment. Is that the real answer? Or would the Obama Administration like to clarify its reasoning? Any Congress that respected its oversight responsibilities would get to the bottom of this.

How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American - Conor Friedersdorf - The Atlantic

I don't belive the kid was the target to be called an assination. Wrong place at the wrong time.
How many bombs did Bush drop on Iraq who was not a threat, had no WMDs that killed a million innocent Iraqi men, women and children. We are at war with Al Qaeda and there are casualties of war.

But again..that's not what is at the root.

The root was passing some extremely bad legislation that increased the powers of the government and trampled the rights of the people in the name of security.

And the very people that drew up that legislation are complaining about it now.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin

Maybe they should really think about those wise words.

 

[mudwhistle]

I SURE DO have a clue.

You didn't start a thread about any of those things.

You went right for the PRESIDENT.

Did I start this thread?

No.

Again.. return those Strawmen back to the field and discuss the issue at hand not some whaddaboutry that has absolutely nothing do with the subject.

You haven't started ANY thread about those things.

Feel free..link one.

I've read your posts. You seem to think these sort of issues begin and end with THIS PRESIDENT.

That this PRESIDENT is an outlier.

He's not.

Presidents who inherit new powers, DON'T GIVE THEM UP.

Book that.

So according to you it's okay for Obama to not onlyv exercise said abusive powers but double down on it by creating his own private hit-squad in Nevada attacking whomever he wishes for any purpose he chooses?

No wonder folks are buying up all of the guns and ammo.

 

[Sallow]

Did I start this thread?

No.

Again.. return those Strawmen back to the field and discuss the issue at hand not some whaddaboutry that has absolutely nothing do with the subject.

You haven't started ANY thread about those things.

Feel free..link one.

I've read your posts. You seem to think these sort of issues begin and end with THIS PRESIDENT.

That this PRESIDENT is an outlier.

He's not.

Presidents who inherit new powers, DON'T GIVE THEM UP.

Book that.

So according to you it's okay for Obama to not onlyv exercise said abusive powers but double down on it by creating his own private hit-squad in Nevada attacking whomever he wishes for any purpose he chooses?

No wonder folks are buying up all of the guns and ammo.

No.

And I was against this sort of thing during the Bush administration as well.

The CIA should not be militarized. And there should be some sort of process that is subject to audit if extraordinary measures need to be undertaken to dispatch a threat.

You folks don't want that.

What you folks are looking for is a reason to remove the President.

What I am looking for is a removal of those powers.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Tell me what's false in what I said.

The challenge would be finding something right in what you recited.

You recited dogma that "We want every mother armed to the teeth?"

Leftist orthodoxy preaches that there is no difference between men and women. Hollywood shows women beating up men three times their size, but like everything from the left, this is idiotic bullshit.

It's ironic that the left attacks Christians for not accepting science and documented fact, because no one rejects fact quite to the level that leftists do. The fact is that women are smaller and weaker than men, but leftists prefer their hokey dogma of equality, and reject fact.

Sane people recognize that women are smaller and weaker, and the way to keep women safe is to arm them. Guns are the great equalizer, they empower women to stand up to men. This is one of the main reasons that leftists want to disarm the public, to stop the empowerment that arms confer.

Your masters are Communist Dreams trained you to say that the "right doesn't want the government to kill terrorists." A really stupid lie on it's face, but we saw in the last election that demagoguery is king, the more outrageous the lie from the left, the more the people will believe it.

But your god violates the United Stated Constitution when he murders U.S. Citizens. Look, I realize that you of the left are at war against the constitution, and you don't give a damn that your ruler flouts his contempt for the law of the land. But a great many of us still "cling to" the constitutional rule that this nation used to have. Under the republic, a president has no power to simply kill a citizen - regardless of the reason. This was a nation of LAW, where the accused would face judgement in a court, not death at the order of a dictator.

 

[Uncensored2008]

What gives an American who joins Al Qaeda special privileges?

Constitutional rights are not a "privilege."

That you totalitarians say they are should be a clear statement to all what your intent is.

And what about John Walker Lindh, who joined the Taliban? Could we not have shot him in Afghanistan?

Obama would have, simple murder at the order of the dictator.

But Bush was the President of a Constitutional Republic, so Lindh was arrested and tried in accordance to our laws, rather than summarily executed on the order of the dictator.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Which stems from Bush's Patriot Act.

"oops"

Jose Fuck, please post the portion of the Patriot Act (authored by Joe Biden, Obama's deputy dictator) which authorizes the president to murder U.S. Citizens without charge, warrant, arrest, or any hint of due process?

You totalitarians keep making these claims, but none of you can back them up.

 

[Uncensored2008]

and here I thought Congress keeps revising the thing.

btw, do Presidents get to vote to repeal acts of Congress?

Presidents get to veto. BTW, Lord Obama had democrat majorities on both houses for two years. Why did the dictator not repeal it at that time?

 

[NYcarbineer]

(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

The President has the authority to kill anyone in Al Qaeda, or affiliated with Al Qaeda,

since Al Qaeda is an 'organization' as described above.

Being an American Al Qaeda is not a hall pass.

I see you can't read. The memo actually says that an high official in the executive branch has the power to kill anyone they suspect is a member of Al Qaeda, or any organization associated with them, even if they have no proof. This power is not limited to the president, nor dies it require actual evidence, all it requires is someone to say go.

You obviously haven't read the white paper. This would be what? ...the second time in 2 weeks you pretended to be knowledgeable about something you haven't even read?

lol

 

[NYcarbineer]

What gives an American who joins Al Qaeda special privileges?

Constitutional rights are not a "privilege."

That you totalitarians say they are should be a clear statement to all what your intent is.

And what about John Walker Lindh, who joined the Taliban? Could we not have shot him in Afghanistan?

Obama would have, simple murder at the order of the dictator.

But Bush was the President of a Constitutional Republic, so Lindh was arrested and tried in accordance to our laws, rather than summarily executed on the order of the dictator.

The constitutional authority to kill an American who has joined forces with the enemy is cited in the white paper which you didn't read.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The constitutional authority to kill an American who has joined forces with the enemy is cited in the white paper which you didn't read.

{No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. }

From the actual constitution, which you have never read.

Your dictator violated the constitution AND criminal law. Impeach, indict, imprison.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The constitutional authority to kill an American who has joined forces with the enemy is cited in the white paper which you didn't read.

{No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. }

From the actual constitution, which you have never read.

Your dictator violated the constitution AND criminal law. Impeach, indict, imprison.

Due process means the state has to respect the rights that you possess.

Once you've joined forces with an enemy of the US that Congress has authorized the use of force against,

you no longer possess all the rights you mistakenly think you do.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Buncha nonsense from all over the political spectrum.

stay out of war zones

do not proclaim enemy status to the CIA and DOD

be accountable for your behavior.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Due process means the state has to respect the rights that you possess.

Not a particularly accurate definition, but even with that, Obama denied due process when he ordered the assassination of American citizens.

Once you've joined forces with an enemy of the US that Congress has authorized the use of force against,

you no longer possess all the rights you mistakenly think you do.

You've joined forces with the enemy. You spend your days here arguing against constitutional government and advocating for a totalitarian system.

Does that mean that the next Republican president would be right to order you killed on the spot?

Just like you, Al-Awliki was a demagogue. He put out propaganda and incited ant-American hatred. There is no evidence he ever fired a shot at Americans, engaged in any terrorist act, or did anything other than make videos.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Buncha nonsense from all over the political spectrum.

stay out of war zones

do not proclaim enemy status to the CIA and DOD

be accountable for your behavior.

Jake, you're a filthy piece of shit. A leftist demagogue and paid propagandist. Nothing you spew has any value - ever.

But, you filthy fuck, Yemen isn't a "war zone," cocksucker. Your god had Al-Awliki murdered in a suburban neighborhood.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Buncha nonsense from all over the political spectrum.

stay out of war zones

do not proclaim enemy status to the CIA and DOD

be accountable for your behavior.

Jake, you're a filthy piece of shit. A leftist demagogue and paid propagandist. Nothing you spew has any value - ever.

But, you filthy fuck, Yemen isn't a "war zone," cocksucker. Your god had Al-Awliki murdered in a suburban neighborhood.

Flaming does not make your lies any less false, Uncensored. The good guys hunt the vermin wherever they hide. That is what is going to happen to the American terrorists when they go active against the American government here at home. I believe you are among those just waiting for the day to kill other Americans.

 

[Dot Com]

Buncha nonsense from all over the political spectrum.

stay out of war zones

do not proclaim enemy status to the CIA and DOD

be accountable for your behavior.

Jake, you're a filthy piece of shit. A leftist demagogue and paid propagandist. Nothing you spew has any value - ever.

But, you filthy fuck, Yemen isn't a "war zone," cocksucker. Your god had Al-Awliki murdered in a suburban neighborhood.

rw flame post (pssst: you never heard of AQAP?)

 

[Liability]

I have not read much of this thread yet. But I am a bit amazed that a decision by the Obama Administration is making SOME allies of SOME natural antagonists (politically speaking).

I add these musing to make a point, but I am CERTAIN it will garner me much animosity from the left, the right , the libertarians and everyone else (save for a few).

The COMMENTS about "due process" are absolutely DEVOID of logic or rationality.

The CONSTITUTION says (and I will cut and paste the clauses for brevity's sake):

The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides:

[N]or shall any person . . . be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law . . . .[5]

Section One of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides:

[N]or shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law . . . .[6]

-- lifted from Wiki, Due Process Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Note: it says any PERSON. It does not say "no citizen."

Therefore, by the logic of the opponents, ANYONE -- whether an American citizen or not -- would be having a Constitutional right violated if they are targeted for a drone strike.

YET, the primary objection to the DoJ's "memo" is that it says that it is even permissible to target a U.S. citizen. That's when the opponents start wailing about "due process."

Properly understood, Due Process does NOT apply JUST to citizens.

SOME rights guaranteed under the Constitution do pertain only to citizens. Voting, for example. But, it is not just citizens who are protected by the First Amendment. Aliens here have a guaranteed right to the same freedom of speech and religion. Thus, SOME guaranteed rights pertain to all people.

IF, in time of war, it is "ok" to target an enemy who is bent on attacking the U.S., its people, its forces, its property or its interests, then it doesn't make it any less "ok" if that enemy happens to be a citizen.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Buncha nonsense from all over the political spectrum.

stay out of war zones

do not proclaim enemy status to the CIA and DOD

be accountable for your behavior.

Jake, you're a filthy piece of shit. A leftist demagogue and paid propagandist. Nothing you spew has any value - ever.

But, you filthy fuck, Yemen isn't a "war zone," cocksucker. Your god had Al-Awliki murdered in a suburban neighborhood.

rw flame post (pssst: you never heard of AQAP?)

Uncensored is a reactionary flamer with nothing but hate.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Buncha nonsense from all over the political spectrum.

stay out of war zones

do not proclaim enemy status to the CIA and DOD

be accountable for your behavior.

Jake, you're a filthy piece of shit. A leftist demagogue and paid propagandist. Nothing you spew has any value - ever.

But, you filthy fuck, Yemen isn't a "war zone," cocksucker. Your god had Al-Awliki murdered in a suburban neighborhood.

Let's help you out, flamer.