paulitician
Platinum Member
- Oct 7, 2011
- 38,401
- 4,162
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Obamacare. It's been a miserable debacle, brought to you by Democrats. Nuff said.
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If everything were settled by right wingernut delusions, then you guys would win every time. Thank God for facts. Facts. Facts are the enemy of the right wing.There comes a time in nearly every argument when a liberal tries to claim that he's smarter than everyone else. It's usually when he realizes that he's standing at the bottom of a hole and he's still digging. IOW, if you feel like you have to keep telling people you're smarter than they are, you're probably not.They are the reason it happened under a law passed by Bush and the GOP in 2003 that refuses to allow bundling. It's a legal way to scam America. I written and posted links many times. And every time, Republicans call it lies. It happened. It's real.I'm getting bored now. I'm not interested in defending Republicans. If that's all you're interested in doing, debating Republicans, then why don't you find one. They are all over the board, it's not hard
Republicans suck, don't they? Go ahead and argue with one. Then you can figure out which of you is dumb and which is dumber. I'm betting on you to be the latter
![]()
Just to set the record straight.
Wow, a graph. That must be right then
It's not about Medicare Part D. It's about states and organizations bundling orders. Other countries do it. They buy drugs in bulk and it drives the cost down to a fraction. Republicans blocked that driving up the cost enormously. It made big news when they did it. How come no one remembers. I know why. Republicans fuck over American so often, the last time is forgotten by the next time another Iraq or Bush Tax cuts or Flint comes around.They are the reason it happened under a law passed by Bush and the GOP in 2003 that refuses to allow bundling. It's a legal way to scam America. I written and posted links many times. And every time, Republicans call it lies. It happened. It's real.Hey liar, I asked you to make a list of all the diseases the American medical industry has cured or eradicated since 1953. Show us some examples of the great strides the American medical industry has made in he past 63 years
Why do you care what drugs cost if you don't think they work?
What a dumb fucking question but I will answer it anyway just to make you look even more evil and pathetic.
Unlike you the Republican slime that you are, I actually give a shit about my country and its people. Your Republican ethic is "Hooray for me and fuck everybody else." Because you are a POS all you care about is your worthless self. You don't care that people are being ripped off and harmed by corporate gangsters. Please don't have kids.
It's not only the price gouging that bothers me it is also the harmful side effects of these drugs. You have have no problem with the fact that the medical industry is the leading cause of death in the US and it is also the biggest thief. Now do you see why it would be so easy and so satisfying to goad some piece of shit like you into physically attacking me so that I could be legally justified into beating you into a permanent coma?
I'm getting bored now. I'm not interested in defending Republicans. If that's all you're interested in doing, debating Republicans, then why don't you find one. They are all over the board, it's not hard
Yep, Medicare part D was a giveaway to big pharma.
Yes, everything that makes you look bad is irrelevant to this discussion.Did you look at the list? It shows total expenditures vs successful drugs. IOW, that includes the failures.I imported their methodology figures into Excel and summed them.Where do you get this $822 billion figure? I don't see it anywhere in the article.
You're only counting the successful drugs. You also have to add in the cost of all the failures.
And kaz, I'm sure you didn't bother to look at anything before agreeing with bripat. You two are a self congratulating tag team.
I agreed with him you are way under-counting R&D, he's right. All of this is irrelevant to the discussion. You want to send the government in to give you other people's money, yet again. They did the R&D, they created the benefit, you want government to use force to give it to you for the price you want to pay. It's not your drug, it's theirs. They paid for it. Now you want it for an artificially low price
So government coercion is bad but requiring a guy to go bankrupt for the CHANCE to save a family member is ok? Nah, no coercion there.Yes, everything that makes you look bad is irrelevant to this discussion.Did you look at the list? It shows total expenditures vs successful drugs. IOW, that includes the failures.I imported their methodology figures into Excel and summed them.
You're only counting the successful drugs. You also have to add in the cost of all the failures.
And kaz, I'm sure you didn't bother to look at anything before agreeing with bripat. You two are a self congratulating tag team.
I agreed with him you are way under-counting R&D, he's right. All of this is irrelevant to the discussion. You want to send the government in to give you other people's money, yet again. They did the R&D, they created the benefit, you want government to use force to give it to you for the price you want to pay. It's not your drug, it's theirs. They paid for it. Now you want it for an artificially low price
yes, advocating liberty and freedom? Just bad form, ay, mate?
Something Republicans did when they held both houses and the presidency that can't be denied because it's so well documented is pointed out and you call the person pointing out that fact "dumb"? What does that make you?They are the reason it happened under a law passed by Bush and the GOP in 2003 that refuses to allow bundling. It's a legal way to scam America. I written and posted links many times. And every time, Republicans call it lies. It happened. It's real.Why do you care what drugs cost if you don't think they work?
What a dumb fucking question but I will answer it anyway just to make you look even more evil and pathetic.
Unlike you the Republican slime that you are, I actually give a shit about my country and its people. Your Republican ethic is "Hooray for me and fuck everybody else." Because you are a POS all you care about is your worthless self. You don't care that people are being ripped off and harmed by corporate gangsters. Please don't have kids.
It's not only the price gouging that bothers me it is also the harmful side effects of these drugs. You have have no problem with the fact that the medical industry is the leading cause of death in the US and it is also the biggest thief. Now do you see why it would be so easy and so satisfying to goad some piece of shit like you into physically attacking me so that I could be legally justified into beating you into a permanent coma?
I'm getting bored now. I'm not interested in defending Republicans. If that's all you're interested in doing, debating Republicans, then why don't you find one. They are all over the board, it's not hard
Republicans suck, don't they? Go ahead and argue with one. Then you can figure out which of you is dumb and which is dumber. I'm betting on you to be the latter
If everything were settled by right wingernut delusions, then you guys would win every time. Thank God for facts. Facts. Facts are the enemy of the right wing.There comes a time in nearly every argument when a liberal tries to claim that he's smarter than everyone else. It's usually when he realizes that he's standing at the bottom of a hole and he's still digging. IOW, if you feel like you have to keep telling people you're smarter than they are, you're probably not.They are the reason it happened under a law passed by Bush and the GOP in 2003 that refuses to allow bundling. It's a legal way to scam America. I written and posted links many times. And every time, Republicans call it lies. It happened. It's real.
Republicans suck, don't they? Go ahead and argue with one. Then you can figure out which of you is dumb and which is dumber. I'm betting on you to be the latter
![]()
Just to set the record straight.
Wow, a graph. That must be right then
It's not about Medicare Part D. It's about states and organizations bundling orders. Other countries do it. They buy drugs in bulk and it drives the cost down to a fraction. Republicans blocked that driving up the cost enormously. It made big news when they did it. How come no one remembers. I know why. Republicans fuck over American so often, the last time is forgotten by the next time another Iraq or Bush Tax cuts or Flint comes around.They are the reason it happened under a law passed by Bush and the GOP in 2003 that refuses to allow bundling. It's a legal way to scam America. I written and posted links many times. And every time, Republicans call it lies. It happened. It's real.Why do you care what drugs cost if you don't think they work?
What a dumb fucking question but I will answer it anyway just to make you look even more evil and pathetic.
Unlike you the Republican slime that you are, I actually give a shit about my country and its people. Your Republican ethic is "Hooray for me and fuck everybody else." Because you are a POS all you care about is your worthless self. You don't care that people are being ripped off and harmed by corporate gangsters. Please don't have kids.
It's not only the price gouging that bothers me it is also the harmful side effects of these drugs. You have have no problem with the fact that the medical industry is the leading cause of death in the US and it is also the biggest thief. Now do you see why it would be so easy and so satisfying to goad some piece of shit like you into physically attacking me so that I could be legally justified into beating you into a permanent coma?
I'm getting bored now. I'm not interested in defending Republicans. If that's all you're interested in doing, debating Republicans, then why don't you find one. They are all over the board, it's not hard
Yep, Medicare part D was a giveaway to big pharma.
So government coercion is bad but requiring a guy to go bankrupt for the CHANCE to save a family member is ok? Nah, no coercion there.Yes, everything that makes you look bad is irrelevant to this discussion.Did you look at the list? It shows total expenditures vs successful drugs. IOW, that includes the failures.You're only counting the successful drugs. You also have to add in the cost of all the failures.
And kaz, I'm sure you didn't bother to look at anything before agreeing with bripat. You two are a self congratulating tag team.
I agreed with him you are way under-counting R&D, he's right. All of this is irrelevant to the discussion. You want to send the government in to give you other people's money, yet again. They did the R&D, they created the benefit, you want government to use force to give it to you for the price you want to pay. It's not your drug, it's theirs. They paid for it. Now you want it for an artificially low price
yes, advocating liberty and freedom? Just bad form, ay, mate?
Well at least you tried to justify the actions of the pharmaceutical companies before going all-in on the free enterprise angle. I find the notion that you don't really want to view yourself as a greedy prick to be evidence that you're not quite a full blown sociopath yet. OTOH, maybe you're just afraid of being run through with a pitchfork when people start rioting.
Which part of this did you find most objectionable?So government coercion is bad but requiring a guy to go bankrupt for the CHANCE to save a family member is ok? Nah, no coercion there.Yes, everything that makes you look bad is irrelevant to this discussion.Did you look at the list? It shows total expenditures vs successful drugs. IOW, that includes the failures.
And kaz, I'm sure you didn't bother to look at anything before agreeing with bripat. You two are a self congratulating tag team.
I agreed with him you are way under-counting R&D, he's right. All of this is irrelevant to the discussion. You want to send the government in to give you other people's money, yet again. They did the R&D, they created the benefit, you want government to use force to give it to you for the price you want to pay. It's not your drug, it's theirs. They paid for it. Now you want it for an artificially low price
yes, advocating liberty and freedom? Just bad form, ay, mate?
Well at least you tried to justify the actions of the pharmaceutical companies before going all-in on the free enterprise angle. I find the notion that you don't really want to view yourself as a greedy prick to be evidence that you're not quite a full blown sociopath yet. OTOH, maybe you're just afraid of being run through with a pitchfork when people start rioting.
Admit it. That one got way from you, didn't it?
It's not about Medicare Part D. It's about states and organizations bundling orders. Other countries do it. They buy drugs in bulk and it drives the cost down to a fraction. Republicans blocked that driving up the cost enormously. It made big news when they did it. How come no one remembers. I know why. Republicans fuck over American so often, the last time is forgotten by the next time another Iraq or Bush Tax cuts or Flint comes around.They are the reason it happened under a law passed by Bush and the GOP in 2003 that refuses to allow bundling. It's a legal way to scam America. I written and posted links many times. And every time, Republicans call it lies. It happened. It's real.Why do you care what drugs cost if you don't think they work?
What a dumb fucking question but I will answer it anyway just to make you look even more evil and pathetic.
Unlike you the Republican slime that you are, I actually give a shit about my country and its people. Your Republican ethic is "Hooray for me and fuck everybody else." Because you are a POS all you care about is your worthless self. You don't care that people are being ripped off and harmed by corporate gangsters. Please don't have kids.
It's not only the price gouging that bothers me it is also the harmful side effects of these drugs. You have have no problem with the fact that the medical industry is the leading cause of death in the US and it is also the biggest thief. Now do you see why it would be so easy and so satisfying to goad some piece of shit like you into physically attacking me so that I could be legally justified into beating you into a permanent coma?
I'm getting bored now. I'm not interested in defending Republicans. If that's all you're interested in doing, debating Republicans, then why don't you find one. They are all over the board, it's not hard
Yep, Medicare part D was a giveaway to big pharma.
Google the 2003 Medicare Drug Bill where our Republican Congress created legislation that forced the taxpayer to pay above market rates for drugs.
The GOP has been fully captured by special interests. If they don't vote for the interests of the large corporations who find their elections, they are removed.
This is why they created the Clinton scandal machine.
.... because, like Trump, without actual policies to offer the American People, the only thing left is a con game.
It's not about Medicare Part D. It's about states and organizations bundling orders. Other countries do it. They buy drugs in bulk and it drives the cost down to a fraction. Republicans blocked that driving up the cost enormously. It made big news when they did it. How come no one remembers. I know why. Republicans fuck over American so often, the last time is forgotten by the next time another Iraq or Bush Tax cuts or Flint comes around.They are the reason it happened under a law passed by Bush and the GOP in 2003 that refuses to allow bundling. It's a legal way to scam America. I written and posted links many times. And every time, Republicans call it lies. It happened. It's real.What a dumb fucking question but I will answer it anyway just to make you look even more evil and pathetic.
Unlike you the Republican slime that you are, I actually give a shit about my country and its people. Your Republican ethic is "Hooray for me and fuck everybody else." Because you are a POS all you care about is your worthless self. You don't care that people are being ripped off and harmed by corporate gangsters. Please don't have kids.
It's not only the price gouging that bothers me it is also the harmful side effects of these drugs. You have have no problem with the fact that the medical industry is the leading cause of death in the US and it is also the biggest thief. Now do you see why it would be so easy and so satisfying to goad some piece of shit like you into physically attacking me so that I could be legally justified into beating you into a permanent coma?
I'm getting bored now. I'm not interested in defending Republicans. If that's all you're interested in doing, debating Republicans, then why don't you find one. They are all over the board, it's not hard
Yep, Medicare part D was a giveaway to big pharma.
I think we are missing the big picture on prescription drugs. Drug are used to manage disease and when a patent runs out on a drug big pharma creates a similar drug at a huge price to continue the lucrative evil of managing a disease instead of curing it. One example if Prilosec vs Nexium. They are nearly identical in their mechanism and dangerous side effects. Most people who "need" these drugs are fat people who over eat. The drug industry is a scam.
It's worse than a clown show, it's a divine comedy.Google the 2003 Medicare Drug Bill where our Republican Congress created legislation that forced the taxpayer to pay above market rates for drugs.
The GOP has been fully captured by special interests. If they don't vote for the interests of the large corporations who find their elections, they are removed.
This is why they created the Clinton scandal machine.
.... because, like Trump, without actual policies to offer the American People, the only thing left is a con game.
It has not degraded into a clown show and Trump is PT Barnum and the rest of them are barking seals.
Obamacare. It's been a miserable debacle, brought to you by Democrats. Nuff said.
Obamacare. It's been a miserable debacle, brought to you by Democrats. Nuff said.
Obamacare is a Republican idea same as Romneycare and it's better than what we had which was anarchy.
Hey Pig Vomit, here are some facts for you to hopefully choke to death on.
Qualls: History lesson. This was the Republican plan ...
Hannity: This was not the Republican plan.
Qualls: … in the early '90s.
Hannity: No Republican supported it. Not one Republican voted for this.
Qualls: Yes, in the '90s ...
Hannity: That’s a lie.
Qualls: … during the Clinton administration, this was the ‘Let’s fix the private insurance system ...
Hannity: No. No.
Qualls: … and make it work’, instead of making it a government system.
Time out!
Is the Affordable Care Act really the same as "the Republican plan in the early '90s?"
Short answer -- pretty much. There was a Republican bill in the Senate that looked a whole lot like Obamacare.
1993: Health care takes center stage
President Bill Clinton took on an ill-fated effort to reform health care in 1993. As the president’s task force (led by First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton) worked behind closed doors to craft solutions to ever-rising health care costs and a growing number of uninsured families, Republicans scrambled to forge an alternative.
Republican Sen. John Chafee of Rhode Island was the point man. The bill he introduced, Health Equity and Access Reform Today, (yes, that spells HEART) had a list of 20 co-sponsors that was a who’s who of Republican leadership. There was Minority Leader Bob Dole, R- Kan., Sens. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and many others. There also were two Democratic co-sponsors.
Among other features, the Chafee bill included:
"You would find a great deal of similarity to provisions in the Affordable Care Act," Sheila Burke, Dole’s chief of staff in 1993, told PunditFact via email. "The guys were way ahead of the times!! Different crowd, different time, suffice it to say."
- An individual mandate;
- Creation of purchasing pools;
- Standardized benefits;
- Vouchers for the poor to buy insurance;
- A ban on denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition.
It's not about Medicare Part D. It's about states and organizations bundling orders. Other countries do it. They buy drugs in bulk and it drives the cost down to a fraction. Republicans blocked that driving up the cost enormously. It made big news when they did it. How come no one remembers. I know why. Republicans fuck over American so often, the last time is forgotten by the next time another Iraq or Bush Tax cuts or Flint comes around.They are the reason it happened under a law passed by Bush and the GOP in 2003 that refuses to allow bundling. It's a legal way to scam America. I written and posted links many times. And every time, Republicans call it lies. It happened. It's real.I'm getting bored now. I'm not interested in defending Republicans. If that's all you're interested in doing, debating Republicans, then why don't you find one. They are all over the board, it's not hard
Yep, Medicare part D was a giveaway to big pharma.
I think we are missing the big picture on prescription drugs. Drug are used to manage disease and when a patent runs out on a drug big pharma creates a similar drug at a huge price to continue the lucrative evil of managing a disease instead of curing it. One example if Prilosec vs Nexium. They are nearly identical in their mechanism and dangerous side effects. Most people who "need" these drugs are fat people who over eat. The drug industry is a scam.
The problem with your theory is that people can still by the old version of the drug that is no longer patented.
Obamacare. It's been a miserable debacle, brought to you by Democrats. Nuff said.
Obamacare is a Republican idea same as Romneycare and it's better than what we had which was anarchy.
Hey Pig Vomit, here are some facts for you to hopefully choke to death on.
Qualls: History lesson. This was the Republican plan ...
Hannity: This was not the Republican plan.
Qualls: … in the early '90s.
Hannity: No Republican supported it. Not one Republican voted for this.
Qualls: Yes, in the '90s ...
Hannity: That’s a lie.
Qualls: … during the Clinton administration, this was the ‘Let’s fix the private insurance system ...
Hannity: No. No.
Qualls: … and make it work’, instead of making it a government system.
Time out!
Is the Affordable Care Act really the same as "the Republican plan in the early '90s?"
Short answer -- pretty much. There was a Republican bill in the Senate that looked a whole lot like Obamacare.
1993: Health care takes center stage
President Bill Clinton took on an ill-fated effort to reform health care in 1993. As the president’s task force (led by First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton) worked behind closed doors to craft solutions to ever-rising health care costs and a growing number of uninsured families, Republicans scrambled to forge an alternative.
Republican Sen. John Chafee of Rhode Island was the point man. The bill he introduced, Health Equity and Access Reform Today, (yes, that spells HEART) had a list of 20 co-sponsors that was a who’s who of Republican leadership. There was Minority Leader Bob Dole, R- Kan., Sens. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and many others. There also were two Democratic co-sponsors.
Among other features, the Chafee bill included:
"You would find a great deal of similarity to provisions in the Affordable Care Act," Sheila Burke, Dole’s chief of staff in 1993, told PunditFact via email. "The guys were way ahead of the times!! Different crowd, different time, suffice it to say."
- An individual mandate;
- Creation of purchasing pools;
- Standardized benefits;
- Vouchers for the poor to buy insurance;
- A ban on denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition.
Miserable failed farce. Hussein and Democrats have only made things much worse. Obamacare has to be scrapped.
Which part of this did you find most objectionable?So government coercion is bad but requiring a guy to go bankrupt for the CHANCE to save a family member is ok? Nah, no coercion there.Yes, everything that makes you look bad is irrelevant to this discussion.I agreed with him you are way under-counting R&D, he's right. All of this is irrelevant to the discussion. You want to send the government in to give you other people's money, yet again. They did the R&D, they created the benefit, you want government to use force to give it to you for the price you want to pay. It's not your drug, it's theirs. They paid for it. Now you want it for an artificially low price
yes, advocating liberty and freedom? Just bad form, ay, mate?
Well at least you tried to justify the actions of the pharmaceutical companies before going all-in on the free enterprise angle. I find the notion that you don't really want to view yourself as a greedy prick to be evidence that you're not quite a full blown sociopath yet. OTOH, maybe you're just afraid of being run through with a pitchfork when people start rioting.
Admit it. That one got way from you, didn't it?