President plans to unveil new 20% 'minimum tax' on 700 super-rich Americans that would levy ALL forms of income for families worth more than $100M

[Big Bend Texas]

Cool story, but there actually IS a reason one of the richest men in the world borrows money from his companies and lives in houses those companies own.

So just to be clear, no matter what the facts show you're just going to keep parroting the same schtick. Correct?

Money that is borrowed and not paid back is treated as ordinary income which you must pay taxes on.

In order to pay those loans back so that they are not treated as income, you must from some source derive enough income to pay them off and you will of course also have to pay taxes on that income.

He apparently paid 11bn in income taxes last year, how much did you pay?

 

[Big Bend Texas]

? Tax evasion is legal dummy.

You don't go after it with IRS. You go after it with reforms to tax laws.

Tax evasion is by definition a crime, "dummy".

 

[AntonToo]

So just to be clear, no matter what the facts show you're just going to keep parroting the same schtick. Correct?

Money that is borrowed and not paid back is treated as ordinary income which you must pay taxes on.

In order to pay those loans back so that they are not treated as income, you must from some source derive enough income to pay them off and you will of course also have to pay taxes on that income.

He apparently paid 11bn in income taxes last year, how much did you pay?

...Did you just seriously propose we compare in nominal dollars how much I pay in taxes to how much one of the richest men in the world pays in a cherry-picked year? What the hell is wrong with you?


Aside from that if you are just going to ignore what I say and keep repeating same shit then this is as far as this conversation can go.

Here you go, read up:

How America’s Richest People Can Access Billions Without Selling Their Stock

Many of the country’s richest people, including Elon Musk and Larry Ellison, borrow against their stock while avoiding capital gains taxes.

www.forbes.com

 

[AntonToo]

Tax evasion is by definition a crime, "dummy".

I stand corrected, the word I meant to use was tax avoidance.

But my point remains - this is not a matter of IRS enforcing existing laws, but of reforming the tax code.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

I stand corrected, the word I meant to use was tax avoidance.

But my point remains - this is not a matter of IRS enforcing existing laws, but of reforming the tax code.

And the 11Bn dollar tax bill he got for selling his Tesla shares show your entire premise to be flawed.

You don't understand the difference in wealth and income and until you do, you're not going to be able to engage in an intelligent discussion of either.

 

[AntonToo]

And the 11Bn dollar tax bill he got for selling his Tesla shares show your entire premise to be flawed.

You don't understand the difference in wealth and income and until you do, you're not going to be able to engage in an intelligent discussion of either.

No it doesn't. And I understand it well.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

No it doesn't. And I understand it well.

Of course it does, you claimed he was paying nothing by hiding his income.

Damn man, no need to lie, you were just wrong, suck it up, own it and learn from it.

 

[AntonToo]

Of course it does, you claimed he was paying nothing by hiding his income.

Damn man, no need to lie, you were just wrong, suck it up, own it and learn from it.

No of course it does not.

1. If you are saying Musk is already paying more than his fair 20% or more, then that self-defeats your objection to minimal 20% tax.

2. He absolutely does not . Musk has accumulated ~280 BILLION dollars in stock. If he actually paid 20% on that we would be taking a total of ~50 billion in taxes over the years, which is 4 times what he actually paid.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

No of course it does not.

1. If you are saying Musk is already paying more than his fair 20% or more, then that self-defeats your objection to minimal 20% tax.

2. He absolutely does not . Musk has accumulated ~280 BILLION dollars in stock. If he actually paid 20% on that we would be taking a total of ~50 billion in taxes over the years, which is 4 times what he actually paid.

Who are you to arbitrarily decide what percentage is "fair"?

He'll pay whatever the law says is fair which is apparently around 11Bn dollars.

That's more money than you'll make in a hundred lifetimes much less pay in taxes.

Stop coving that which others have and you'll be a much happier person and might even figure out a way to improve y our own life on your own.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

280 BILLION dollars in stock. If he actually paid 20% on that we would be taking a total of ~50 billion in taxes over the years, which is 4 times what he actually paid.

Did he sell 50BN worth of stock?

Elon Musk sells around $5 billion of Tesla stock

Musk sold the shares in part to satisfy tax obligations related to an exercise of stock options.

www.cnbc.com

No.

 

[AntonToo]

Who are you to arbitrarily decide what percentage is "fair"?

He'll pay whatever the law says is fair which is apparently around 11Bn dollars.

Then the law should be that he minimally pay 20% like what middle class pays as a % of our income.

It's not about some sort of personal envy. I have everything I've ever wanted. More money will not really make me happier.

It's about having a more fair taxation system and many wealthy people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet agree. I don't suppose you think they are envious.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Then the law should be that he minimally pay 20% to much what middle class pay as a % of our income.

It's not about some sort of personal envy. I have everything I've ever wanted. 100 million more will not make happier.

It's about having fair taxation system and many wealthy people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet agree. I don't suppose you think they are envious.

In a fair system we'd all pay the same flat rate, no deductions, credits exclusions or anything else.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Bill Gates and Warren Buffe

If that's what they actually believed they'd be cutting checks every year based on whatever rate above current they believe to be fair.

Anyone can donate to the treasury and it's 100% deductible.

 

[AntonToo]

If that's what they actually believed they'd be cutting checks every year based on whatever rate above current they believe to be fair.

Anyone can donate to the treasury and it's 100% deductible.

Taxation system is not a charity, that line is ridiculous.

 

[JohnDB]

You want a law to stop rich people from borrowing?

Yes...
It's called naked shorting. It used to be illegal...a major SEC violation.
When they changed the laws in the '90's regarding stock purchases to keep small investors from day trading this was one thing that they relaxed...and it's effect has not been a positive for these past 30 years.

It's creating a volatility in the market that isn't healthy. And this also has been the device that the super wealthy use to have cash reserves.

So if we limit ourselves again to the original 3 day rule...it will stop these things.

I know that it isn't exactly popular idea...but this just applies to stocks. It doesn't affect options or anything else. Hedge funds will be OB somewhat...well they will not get so upside down to where they go bankrupt like several did this past summer. Those margin calls flooded the market with stocks. And the defaulted debt cost a pretty penny as well.

Then guys like Elon musk will have to take larger salaries and sell his stock holdings by dribbling them out.
It will also stop congress from profiting so much from legislation...

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Taxation system is not a charity, that line is ridiculous.

No that isn't ridiculous that's why it's deductible. If they truly believed they were under taxed they could correct it themselves.

Pay.gov - Donations to the U.S. Government

www.pay.gov

 

[AntonToo]

In a fair system we'd all pay the same flat rate, no deductions, credits exclusions or anything else.

So by your own standard of fairness Musk is underpaying taxes...unless of course you think everyone can just pay ~5% like he has.

 

[bripat9643]

? Tax evasion is legal dummy.

You don't go after it with IRS. You go after it with reforms to tax laws.

Tax avoidance is legal, moron. Tax evasion is a crime. That still doesn't make Biden's scheme a tax.

You are so stupid it must hurt.

 

[Flash]

The stupid Libtards thunk the answer to everything is more taxes.

57% of the people in the US don't pay any of that trillion dollars a year collected in the stupid income tax. They don't have any skin the game, do they?

Progressive income tax rates are nothing more than greed and envy and is despicable.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's about having a more fair taxation system and many wealthy people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet agree.

Is that why they're sheltering all their wealth in the Gates Foundation to pay zero taxes? DURR.