CDZ Programs opposed by Conservatives that were successes

[toobfreak]

Medicare
Sccial Security
Environmental Protection
OSHA
Americans with Disabilities Act
Affirmative Action
Gay Rights

You call those few the successes? Most of those programs have been DISASTERS, despite whatever good they may have done here and there. Meantime, shall we not look at the long list of programs supported by Atheist-Socialist Leftards that have been a total crashing failure? We would be sure to break the server in the massive data overload.

Name one and why it is a disaster

Why stop at one?
Medicare: bankrupting the nation while not really paying for the care people need!
Social Security: bankrupting the nation through government mismanagement while only letting old people starve more slowly.
EPA: weaponized strong-arm of the government used to attack people like Gibson Guitar like the gestapo for no good reason at all, and taking people's land.
OSHA: does some good while drastically increasing costs to companies and thus the services and products they provider to the consumer.
Affirmative Action: After decades of passing over better qualified white people, blacks are STILL poor and cannot find a job.
Gay Right: Gays have no rights that any other person doesn't have except government force now levied to use them to put bakeries out of business for simply not wanting to violate their religious beliefs.
Americans With Disabilities Act: Does a lot of good if you can get labeled disabled. Problem is the red tape for a lot of truly disabled people who fall through the government cracks.

OK
No Medicare
You work for 40 years and when you retire,your employer drops your health insurance
Now you are 65, have diabetes, record of heart problems..... Who is going to cover you?

Who said I have the answer, and if I did, why would I share it here for free? Whatever the answer, most of Europe seems to have found it where education is a FRACTION of the cost if it costs anything at all and healthcare is a given whatever your age.

For a country that prides itself on wealth income and opportunity, one thing is for sure, America is NOT working for an awful lot of people. The vast majority of people here are NOT finding wealth available to them and without wealth, America is one big SHUT DOOR in your face. The USA ranks 10th in income and 19th in happiness of its people.

 

[rightwinger]

Medicare
Sccial Security
Environmental Protection
OSHA
Americans with Disabilities Act
Affirmative Action
Gay Rights

You call those few the successes? Most of those programs have been DISASTERS, despite whatever good they may have done here and there. Meantime, shall we not look at the long list of programs supported by Atheist-Socialist Leftards that have been a total crashing failure? We would be sure to break the server in the massive data overload.

Name one and why it is a disaster

Why stop at one?
Medicare: bankrupting the nation while not really paying for the care people need!
Social Security: bankrupting the nation through government mismanagement while only letting old people starve more slowly.
EPA: weaponized strong-arm of the government used to attack people like Gibson Guitar like the gestapo for no good reason at all, and taking people's land.
OSHA: does some good while drastically increasing costs to companies and thus the services and products they provider to the consumer.
Affirmative Action: After decades of passing over better qualified white people, blacks are STILL poor and cannot find a job.
Gay Right: Gays have no rights that any other person doesn't have except government force now levied to use them to put bakeries out of business for simply not wanting to violate their religious beliefs.
Americans With Disabilities Act: Does a lot of good if you can get labeled disabled. Problem is the red tape for a lot of truly disabled people who fall through the government cracks.

OK
No Medicare
You work for 40 years and when you retire,your employer drops your health insurance
Now you are 65, have diabetes, record of heart problems..... Who is going to cover you?

Who said I have the answer, and if I did, why would I share it here for free? Whatever the answer, most of Europe seems to have found it where education is a FRACTION of the cost if it costs anything at all and healthcare is a given whatever your age.

For a country that prides itself on wealth income and opportunity, one thing is for sure, America is NOT working for an awful lot of people. The vast majority of people here are NOT finding wealth available to them and without wealth, America is one big SHUT DOOR in your face. The USA ranks 10th in income and 19th in happiness of its people.

Agree

More reason we need the Government to stand up for workers

 

[Blues Man]

As I already pointed out, there are very good alternatives to the failures of social security. We should be allowed to opt out of social security if we like and put our money in a place where it will actually work for us rather than give it to the government who misses the money then pays about 2% on our investment...

When you opt out, who pays for the 40 million currently receiving benefits?

Like most liberals, you don't seem to be able to see the glaring flaw in your own argument...and I am sure that, like most liberals, when it is pointed out to you, you won't accept it as a glaring flaw and will simply shuffle the insight to the side and learn nothing...and come back with the same stupid argument.

Over the course of this discussion, you have repeatedly touted your 401k and how it gives you a solid retirement. How much better would your retirement be, had all that money you were forced to pay into social security been put into something like your 401k from the day you started your first paying job?

If you are like most, look at your 401k...now double or triple it depending on what age you actively started to prepare for retirement. What would your life be like if you had 2 or 3 times, or more in reserve than what you have now plus the chump change that your social security amounts to.

That is the point...social security is a failure. You pay into it all your life and get next to nothing back on your return. Like I said...I have no problem with government mandating that we save for our retirement...and mandate that the money be taken from our wages and put into a retirement savings vehicle. The problem I have is that the money goes to the government, where it is mishandled, misused, and they decide what sort of return I am going to get on all that money that I was forced to pay in.

Now I suppose you will drag out the usual liberal arrogance in supposing that you had the foresight and ability to actually direct your 401k money into something that would provide you a good return, but the rest of those poor schlubs aren't as smart, or gifted as you and they would not have been as successful as you, so it is best that they gave their money to the government over the course of their lifetimes and should be glad that they get to struggle by through their retirement years on the money that a 2% return on their investment provides them.

Social security is a failure..

And the fact that you have to ask, if I opt out who pays the 40 million who are currently receiving benefits only highlights the glaring flaw in your argument. Those 40 million currently receiving benefits have been paying into the system their entire lives. Where is their money? Why does what I pay in, or what anyone else pays in have anything to do with whether they get paid or not? The government has been taking their money weekly, biweekly, or monthly for their entire working lives. Where is their money? Why do they not get paid if I opt out of the system?

Do you ever actually use your brain for anything more than just formulating your next terribly flawed argument?

In that whole screed you failed to answer the basic question

What happens to the 40 million retired and 100 million still working who have been paying in to SS and depend on current workers to pay their benefits.

It seems your response is fuk em, unless you have a better answer

For the people still paying you just reimburse them all the money they paid in. For those collecting now all you have to do is cover their payments until they die.

There's plenty of money wasted by the government that could be used for this.

If you really know how much money you could have saved for retirement if you got to keep all the money taken for Social Security and ivested it you;d be livid

You keep looking at a 1935 program from a 2019 perspective

Do you think a savings plan was a good option in 1935?
We were in the midst of a depression
People did not trust the stock market
There were no index funds
Telling people to save this money and you can trust us it will still be there in the 1970 s when you retire

you keep trying to say a plan for 1935 is still valid today when there are far better options that will leave people with far more money in retirement

 

[rightwinger]

When you opt out, who pays for the 40 million currently receiving benefits?

Like most liberals, you don't seem to be able to see the glaring flaw in your own argument...and I am sure that, like most liberals, when it is pointed out to you, you won't accept it as a glaring flaw and will simply shuffle the insight to the side and learn nothing...and come back with the same stupid argument.

Over the course of this discussion, you have repeatedly touted your 401k and how it gives you a solid retirement. How much better would your retirement be, had all that money you were forced to pay into social security been put into something like your 401k from the day you started your first paying job?

If you are like most, look at your 401k...now double or triple it depending on what age you actively started to prepare for retirement. What would your life be like if you had 2 or 3 times, or more in reserve than what you have now plus the chump change that your social security amounts to.

That is the point...social security is a failure. You pay into it all your life and get next to nothing back on your return. Like I said...I have no problem with government mandating that we save for our retirement...and mandate that the money be taken from our wages and put into a retirement savings vehicle. The problem I have is that the money goes to the government, where it is mishandled, misused, and they decide what sort of return I am going to get on all that money that I was forced to pay in.

Now I suppose you will drag out the usual liberal arrogance in supposing that you had the foresight and ability to actually direct your 401k money into something that would provide you a good return, but the rest of those poor schlubs aren't as smart, or gifted as you and they would not have been as successful as you, so it is best that they gave their money to the government over the course of their lifetimes and should be glad that they get to struggle by through their retirement years on the money that a 2% return on their investment provides them.

Social security is a failure..

And the fact that you have to ask, if I opt out who pays the 40 million who are currently receiving benefits only highlights the glaring flaw in your argument. Those 40 million currently receiving benefits have been paying into the system their entire lives. Where is their money? Why does what I pay in, or what anyone else pays in have anything to do with whether they get paid or not? The government has been taking their money weekly, biweekly, or monthly for their entire working lives. Where is their money? Why do they not get paid if I opt out of the system?

Do you ever actually use your brain for anything more than just formulating your next terribly flawed argument?

In that whole screed you failed to answer the basic question

What happens to the 40 million retired and 100 million still working who have been paying in to SS and depend on current workers to pay their benefits.

It seems your response is fuk em, unless you have a better answer

For the people still paying you just reimburse them all the money they paid in. For those collecting now all you have to do is cover their payments until they die.

There's plenty of money wasted by the government that could be used for this.

If you really know how much money you could have saved for retirement if you got to keep all the money taken for Social Security and ivested it you;d be livid

You keep looking at a 1935 program from a 2019 perspective

Do you think a savings plan was a good option in 1935?
We were in the midst of a depression
People did not trust the stock market
There were no index funds
Telling people to save this money and you can trust us it will still be there in the 1970 s when you retire

you keep trying to say a plan for 1935 is still valid today when there are far better options that will leave people with far more money in retirement

As I posted before, there are not better options unless you can explain how to pay off over 100 million people for Social Security

You just don’t get a do over

 

[Blues Man]

Like most liberals, you don't seem to be able to see the glaring flaw in your own argument...and I am sure that, like most liberals, when it is pointed out to you, you won't accept it as a glaring flaw and will simply shuffle the insight to the side and learn nothing...and come back with the same stupid argument.

Over the course of this discussion, you have repeatedly touted your 401k and how it gives you a solid retirement. How much better would your retirement be, had all that money you were forced to pay into social security been put into something like your 401k from the day you started your first paying job?

If you are like most, look at your 401k...now double or triple it depending on what age you actively started to prepare for retirement. What would your life be like if you had 2 or 3 times, or more in reserve than what you have now plus the chump change that your social security amounts to.

That is the point...social security is a failure. You pay into it all your life and get next to nothing back on your return. Like I said...I have no problem with government mandating that we save for our retirement...and mandate that the money be taken from our wages and put into a retirement savings vehicle. The problem I have is that the money goes to the government, where it is mishandled, misused, and they decide what sort of return I am going to get on all that money that I was forced to pay in.

Now I suppose you will drag out the usual liberal arrogance in supposing that you had the foresight and ability to actually direct your 401k money into something that would provide you a good return, but the rest of those poor schlubs aren't as smart, or gifted as you and they would not have been as successful as you, so it is best that they gave their money to the government over the course of their lifetimes and should be glad that they get to struggle by through their retirement years on the money that a 2% return on their investment provides them.

Social security is a failure..

And the fact that you have to ask, if I opt out who pays the 40 million who are currently receiving benefits only highlights the glaring flaw in your argument. Those 40 million currently receiving benefits have been paying into the system their entire lives. Where is their money? Why does what I pay in, or what anyone else pays in have anything to do with whether they get paid or not? The government has been taking their money weekly, biweekly, or monthly for their entire working lives. Where is their money? Why do they not get paid if I opt out of the system?

Do you ever actually use your brain for anything more than just formulating your next terribly flawed argument?

In that whole screed you failed to answer the basic question

What happens to the 40 million retired and 100 million still working who have been paying in to SS and depend on current workers to pay their benefits.

It seems your response is fuk em, unless you have a better answer

For the people still paying you just reimburse them all the money they paid in. For those collecting now all you have to do is cover their payments until they die.

There's plenty of money wasted by the government that could be used for this.

If you really know how much money you could have saved for retirement if you got to keep all the money taken for Social Security and ivested it you;d be livid

You keep looking at a 1935 program from a 2019 perspective

Do you think a savings plan was a good option in 1935?
We were in the midst of a depression
People did not trust the stock market
There were no index funds
Telling people to save this money and you can trust us it will still be there in the 1970 s when you retire

you keep trying to say a plan for 1935 is still valid today when there are far better options that will leave people with far more money in retirement

As I posted before, there are not better options unless you can explain how to pay off over 100 million people for Social Security

You just don’t get a do over

I already told you you suck it up and continue to pay the people collecting now. Anyone not collecting gets reimbursed the money taken from them.

You have said it's not a ponzi scheme so this should pose no problems

 

[rightwinger]

In that whole screed you failed to answer the basic question

What happens to the 40 million retired and 100 million still working who have been paying in to SS and depend on current workers to pay their benefits.

It seems your response is fuk em, unless you have a better answer

For the people still paying you just reimburse them all the money they paid in. For those collecting now all you have to do is cover their payments until they die.

There's plenty of money wasted by the government that could be used for this.

If you really know how much money you could have saved for retirement if you got to keep all the money taken for Social Security and ivested it you;d be livid

You keep looking at a 1935 program from a 2019 perspective

Do you think a savings plan was a good option in 1935?
We were in the midst of a depression
People did not trust the stock market
There were no index funds
Telling people to save this money and you can trust us it will still be there in the 1970 s when you retire

you keep trying to say a plan for 1935 is still valid today when there are far better options that will leave people with far more money in retirement

As I posted before, there are not better options unless you can explain how to pay off over 100 million people for Social Security

You just don’t get a do over

I already told you you suck it up and continue to pay the people collecting now. Anyone not collecting gets reimbursed the money taken from them.

You have said it's not a ponzi scheme so this should pose no problems

So someone who is 60 and has paid in for 40 years just gets their contribution back ?

You must be a Trump voter

 

[rightwinger]

Medicare
Sccial Security
Environmental Protection
OSHA
Americans with Disabilities Act
Affirmative Action
Gay Rights

You call those few the successes? Most of those programs have been DISASTERS, despite whatever good they may have done here and there. Meantime, shall we not look at the long list of programs supported by Atheist-Socialist Leftards that have been a total crashing failure? We would be sure to break the server in the massive data overload.

Name one and why it is a disaster

Why stop at one?
Medicare: bankrupting the nation while not really paying for the care people need!
Social Security: bankrupting the nation through government mismanagement while only letting old people starve more slowly.
EPA: weaponized strong-arm of the government used to attack people like Gibson Guitar like the gestapo for no good reason at all, and taking people's land.
OSHA: does some good while drastically increasing costs to companies and thus the services and products they provider to the consumer.
Affirmative Action: After decades of passing over better qualified white people, blacks are STILL poor and cannot find a job.
Gay Right: Gays have no rights that any other person doesn't have except government force now levied to use them to put bakeries out of business for simply not wanting to violate their religious beliefs.
Americans With Disabilities Act: Does a lot of good if you can get labeled disabled. Problem is the red tape for a lot of truly disabled people who fall through the government cracks.

Let’s look at gays before gay rights legislation

They were routinely beaten up by rednecks who would say...... that fag tried to grope me so I hit him

They were afraid to admit they were gay because they would lose their jobs

If they were in the military they could get arrested

They could not marry the person they loved

What were you saying about cakes?

 

[Blues Man]

For the people still paying you just reimburse them all the money they paid in. For those collecting now all you have to do is cover their payments until they die.

There's plenty of money wasted by the government that could be used for this.

If you really know how much money you could have saved for retirement if you got to keep all the money taken for Social Security and ivested it you;d be livid

You keep looking at a 1935 program from a 2019 perspective

Do you think a savings plan was a good option in 1935?
We were in the midst of a depression
People did not trust the stock market
There were no index funds
Telling people to save this money and you can trust us it will still be there in the 1970 s when you retire

you keep trying to say a plan for 1935 is still valid today when there are far better options that will leave people with far more money in retirement

As I posted before, there are not better options unless you can explain how to pay off over 100 million people for Social Security

You just don’t get a do over

I already told you you suck it up and continue to pay the people collecting now. Anyone not collecting gets reimbursed the money taken from them.

You have said it's not a ponzi scheme so this should pose no problems

So someone who is 60 and has paid in for 40 years just gets their contribution back ?

You must be a Trump voter

Why not?

They can get a better rate of return even at that point than what they would get

And no I didn't vote for TRump

I vote 3rd party and only 3rd party

I am a person who thinks I can handle my money better than the morons in the government

 

[rightwinger]

You keep looking at a 1935 program from a 2019 perspective

Do you think a savings plan was a good option in 1935?
We were in the midst of a depression
People did not trust the stock market
There were no index funds
Telling people to save this money and you can trust us it will still be there in the 1970 s when you retire

you keep trying to say a plan for 1935 is still valid today when there are far better options that will leave people with far more money in retirement

As I posted before, there are not better options unless you can explain how to pay off over 100 million people for Social Security

You just don’t get a do over

I already told you you suck it up and continue to pay the people collecting now. Anyone not collecting gets reimbursed the money taken from them.

You have said it's not a ponzi scheme so this should pose no problems

So someone who is 60 and has paid in for 40 years just gets their contribution back ?

You must be a Trump voter

Why not?

They can get a better rate of return even at that point than what they would get

Their contribution would be around $100,000
Hardly enough to live off of for the rest of your life

 

[Blues Man]

you keep trying to say a plan for 1935 is still valid today when there are far better options that will leave people with far more money in retirement

As I posted before, there are not better options unless you can explain how to pay off over 100 million people for Social Security

You just don’t get a do over

I already told you you suck it up and continue to pay the people collecting now. Anyone not collecting gets reimbursed the money taken from them.

You have said it's not a ponzi scheme so this should pose no problems

So someone who is 60 and has paid in for 40 years just gets their contribution back ?

You must be a Trump voter

Why not?

They can get a better rate of return even at that point than what they would get

Their contribution would be around $100,000
Hardly enough to live off of for the rest of your life

It's not enough to live on now.

But you might have a point so make the cut off 50 instead because the government has robbed anyone older than 50 of the opportunity to have their money really work for them

 

[Blues Man]

you keep trying to say a plan for 1935 is still valid today when there are far better options that will leave people with far more money in retirement

As I posted before, there are not better options unless you can explain how to pay off over 100 million people for Social Security

You just don’t get a do over

I already told you you suck it up and continue to pay the people collecting now. Anyone not collecting gets reimbursed the money taken from them.

You have said it's not a ponzi scheme so this should pose no problems

So someone who is 60 and has paid in for 40 years just gets their contribution back ?

You must be a Trump voter

Why not?

They can get a better rate of return even at that point than what they would get

Their contribution would be around $100,000
Hardly enough to live off of for the rest of your life

Are you counting the employer contribution in that?

I don't think you are

 

[Oddball]

As I posted before, there are not better options unless you can explain how to pay off over 100 million people for Social Security

You just don’t get a do over

The feds sell off all the land out west that they've hoarded up and pay people back.

Problem solved.

 

[rightwinger]

As I posted before, there are not better options unless you can explain how to pay off over 100 million people for Social Security

You just don’t get a do over

I already told you you suck it up and continue to pay the people collecting now. Anyone not collecting gets reimbursed the money taken from them.

You have said it's not a ponzi scheme so this should pose no problems

So someone who is 60 and has paid in for 40 years just gets their contribution back ?

You must be a Trump voter

Why not?

They can get a better rate of return even at that point than what they would get

Their contribution would be around $100,000
Hardly enough to live off of for the rest of your life

Are you counting the employer contribution in that?

I don't think you are

OK...$200,000 for 50 million people
That would be about $2 trillion

Maybe if we revoked Trumps tax cuts, we could pay off all those people

 

[rightwinger]

As I posted before, there are not better options unless you can explain how to pay off over 100 million people for Social Security

You just don’t get a do over

The feds sell off all the land out west that they've hoarded up and pay people back.

Problem solved.

How much would the Grand Canyon sell for?

 

[rightwinger]

Medicare
Sccial Security
Environmental Protection
OSHA
Americans with Disabilities Act
Affirmative Action
Gay Rights

You call those few the successes? Most of those programs have been DISASTERS, despite whatever good they may have done here and there. Meantime, shall we not look at the long list of programs supported by Atheist-Socialist Leftards that have been a total crashing failure? We would be sure to break the server in the massive data overload.

Name one and why it is a disaster

Why stop at one?
Medicare: bankrupting the nation while not really paying for the care people need!
Social Security: bankrupting the nation through government mismanagement while only letting old people starve more slowly.
EPA: weaponized strong-arm of the government used to attack people like Gibson Guitar like the gestapo for no good reason at all, and taking people's land.
OSHA: does some good while drastically increasing costs to companies and thus the services and products they provider to the consumer.
Affirmative Action: After decades of passing over better qualified white people, blacks are STILL poor and cannot find a job.
Gay Right: Gays have no rights that any other person doesn't have except government force now levied to use them to put bakeries out of business for simply not wanting to violate their religious beliefs.
Americans With Disabilities Act: Does a lot of good if you can get labeled disabled. Problem is the red tape for a lot of truly disabled people who fall through the government cracks.

OSHA cost business a lot of money complying with strict regulations
But it was preferable to them letting people die in unsafe conditions and then paying the widow a few thousand
Just the cost of doing business

 

[Andylusion]

Medicare
Sccial Security
Environmental Protection
OSHA
Americans with Disabilities Act
Affirmative Action
Gay Rights

Conservatives fought tooth and nail against all of them but they have proven to be such successes that even Repuplicans support them today

ADA reduced employment of people with disabilities because it meant someone with a disability could sue the company. Better to not have a lawsuit risk.

Social Security was supposed to be a 1% tax. Now it is 15% of your income, and the program is slowing going broke. It is not a success.
Same with Medicare.

SS and Medicare are as much a "success" as the Soviet Union was. Up until the Soviet Union imploded, everyone said it was success.... then they ran out of money, like all socialism does.

Affirmative Action, had two contradictory effects. It reduced the number of people in positions, and at the same time, called into question the legitimacy of those in those positions.

Environmental Protection in many cases made things worse off. A famous example was the river here in Ohio, which prior to the EPA getting involved, the companies along the river had negotiated between themselves a settlement to reduce pollution. The EPA overruled the agreement, and the rules allowed more pollution than the original agreement between the companies.

You of course will never hear that because the Federal Government wants you to be ignorant and supportive. Like a good lemming you are.

OSHA, I'm not sure how you would consider that a success. OSHA has done little to nothing as far as I can tell. Except perhaps levy fees on companies for irrelevant infractions, that are then passed on to the customer. But even that isn't much.

 

[PredFan]

Medicare
Sccial Security
Environmental Protection
OSHA
Americans with Disabilities Act
Affirmative Action
Gay Rights

Conservatives fought tooth and nail against all of them but they have proven to be such successes that even Repuplicans support them today

And there you are! Left wing stupidity on parade.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Medicare
Sccial Security
Environmental Protection
OSHA
Americans with Disabilities Act
Affirmative Action
Gay Rights

Conservatives fought tooth and nail against all of them but they have proven to be such successes that even Repuplicans support them today

So basically you're saying that conservatives historically have been against legislation that has turned out to be an expensive failure of epic proportions.

OSHA? Yea they are ok I guess. ADA? You mean that stupid legislation that mandates that someone put handicap access to their place of business even though nobody who is handicap would ever go there?

What is a gay right?

Affirmative action? You mean biased based on race?

 

[80zephyr]

Environmental Protection was passed nearly unanimously and signed by Nixon. Since that time, Conservatives have turned against it to the point Trump refuses to enforce it

EPA has ensured we have clean air, rivers, uncontaminated land

I believe you are wrong here. Like with almost any government program, the bureaucrats went regulation crazy and started passing regulations that did little good but came with an exorbitant cost.

Everyone wants clean air and water. But we simply cannot afford PRISTINE air and water.

Mark

 

[Oddball]

As I posted before, there are not better options unless you can explain how to pay off over 100 million people for Social Security

You just don’t get a do over

The feds sell off all the land out west that they've hoarded up and pay people back.

Problem solved.

How much would the Grand Canyon sell for?

Probably zero because it's undevelopable....But there are millions upon millions of acres that would be far better off in private hands.

I'd ask if you could come up with a dopier question, but you'd look at it as a challenge.