Progressives Launching 'October Offensive' To Rival Tea Party

[Mr.Nick]

Union agitation. Tell us dear, what are you going to replace capitalism with? Ya got a plan?

Thats the funny part...

allegedly their economic plan resembles Stalinism - they claim they're not communists yet they want the government to dictate economy - putting unions at the front of the line. They want wealth redistributed by the government - yet they're not communists.

Of course they will all insist they're not communists - yet they look to the GOVERNMENT for answers...

It really shows how ignorant they are..

Wait Wait,,, don't jump the gun.. Dragon is gonna tell us how they intend to CHANGE capitalism.. I'm making the popcorn,, run get some cold beer. We'll have a beer summit.

Well, government intervention is one of the biggest problems with capitalism. Capitalism would be a great economic model but democrats believe in DICTATED economies and like other economies, such as socialism (with progressives adore) they try to dictate capitalism. Hence Keynesian economics....

When progressives attempt to dictate an economy they call it a "mixed economy." This economy is not "mixed" capitalism is dictated here in the US...

I want a true capitalist model - that's not dictated by a government...

Their method of dictation is in the form of "regulations" - for the progressives that will ask "how does the government dictate the economy?"

 

[WillowTree]

Okay, How are you going to CHANGE capitalism? what's yer plan?

I could give you my own ideas, and have done so elsewhere in this forum, but you're asking about the leftist insurgency generally rather than me, so I'll refer you to begin with to the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City. Think of this as a list of grievances similar to those in the Declaration of Independence (on which it may have been patterned):

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly

"They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts."

Do otherwise than all of the above, for starters.

I can get more economics-technical for you if you like, but there's no evidence I can see from any of your posts that you would understand it, so for the moment I'll let this speak for itself.

WHO is THEY?

 

[WillowTree]

Okay, How are you going to CHANGE capitalism? what's yer plan?

I could give you my own ideas, and have done so elsewhere in this forum, but you're asking about the leftist insurgency generally rather than me, so I'll refer you to begin with to the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City. Think of this as a list of grievances similar to those in the Declaration of Independence (on which it may have been patterned):

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly

"They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts."

Do otherwise than all of the above, for starters.

I can get more economics-technical for you if you like, but there's no evidence I can see from any of your posts that you would understand it, so for the moment I'll let this speak for itself.

WHO is THEY?

and









Why should unions be allowed to give money to politicians but THEY should not??? freedom for thee? but none for Me??? is that it?

 

[Dragon]

"They" is corporate America, of course, the ruling class.

And

If corporations could not give money to politicians, there would be no need for unions to do so.

EDIT: Of course, I don't expect most right-wingers to agree with most of the above. The point is that most Americans do, including, as it turns out, many of the original Tea Party members (who might disagree about some of the fine points, but emphatically agree that corporate influence on government is far too great). This is a movement that is not going away, and it is going to influence things very strongly over the course of the next few election cycles. The boat is only beginning to rock.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Okay, How are you going to CHANGE capitalism? what's yer plan?

I could give you my own ideas, and have done so elsewhere in this forum, but you're asking about the leftist insurgency generally rather than me, so I'll refer you to begin with to the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City. Think of this as a list of grievances similar to those in the Declaration of Independence (on which it may have been patterned):

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly

"They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts."

Do otherwise than all of the above, for starters.

I can get more economics-technical for you if you like, but there's no evidence I can see from any of your posts that you would understand it, so for the moment I'll let this speak for itself.

So a more humane economic model involves culls and purges when the economic model can no longer sustain a populace??

You know. Kill millions or let them starve when there is not enough food to feed everyone because there was a bad crop season or because you have created no incentive to progress because everyone is "equal."

 

[WillowTree]

"They" is corporate America, of course, the ruling class.

And

If corporations could not give money to politicians, there would be no need for unions to do so.

So what will you replace corporate America with?


and



do you favor politicians receiving no money from anyone anytime anywhere?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Okay, How are you going to CHANGE capitalism? what's yer plan?

I could give you my own ideas, and have done so elsewhere in this forum, but you're asking about the leftist insurgency generally rather than me, so I'll refer you to begin with to the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City. Think of this as a list of grievances similar to those in the Declaration of Independence (on which it may have been patterned):

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly

"They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts."

Do otherwise than all of the above, for starters.

I can get more economics-technical for you if you like, but there's no evidence I can see from any of your posts that you would understand it, so for the moment I'll let this speak for itself.

Go smoke another fatty....

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

And, who is they?

 

[masquerade]

The two factions of right and left have grown so far apart that there is no point on which compromise could be reached. There is only one place this can go.

That place where Van Jones is hoping it will go. Obama may have tried to unite Americans and he failed miserably. So now he goes the route of class warfare, pitting American against American and Van Jones is leading the way.

This post is my own personal opinion.

 

[WillowTree]

The two factions of right and left have grown so far apart that there is no point on which compromise could be reached. There is only one place this can go.

That place where Van Jones is hoping it will go. Obama may have tried to unite Americans and he failed miserably. So now he goes the route of class warfare, pitting American against American and Van Jones is leading the way.

This post is my own personal opinion.

They still haven't given us a clue as to how they plan to feed themselves when the taxpayers go away.. I'm so damn frigging interested..

 

[Mr.Nick]

"They" is corporate America, of course, the ruling class.

And

If corporations could not give money to politicians, there would be no need for unions to do so.

No, unions only exist from laymen greed.

They're unwilling to learn a skill and since there is an abundance of laymen idiot workers supply and demand is not on their side and "organizers" figured out a way to get rich by forming unions and coercing business holding production over their heads if they don't pay a ransom for labor...

It's funny how there is no "accountant union" they don't need a union because they're not idiots - they have a skill..

Is there a civil engineering union? NOPE - they have a skill.

Get the point?

 

[Failzero]

The two factions of right and left have grown so far apart that there is no point on which compromise could be reached. There is only one place this can go.

That place where Van Jones is hoping it will go. Obama may have tried to unite Americans and he failed miserably. So now he goes the route of class warfare, pitting American against American and Van Jones is leading the way.

This post is my own personal opinion.

More Black Panthers at polling places across the country (With out fear of prosecution)

 

[Oldstyle]

"They" is corporate America, of course, the ruling class.

And

If corporations could not give money to politicians, there would be no need for unions to do so.

No, unions only exist from laymen greed.

They're unwilling to learn a skill and since there is an abundance of laymen idiot workers supply and demand is not on their side and "organizers" figured out a way to get rich by forming unions and coercing business holding production over their heads if they don't pay a ransom for labor...

It's funny how there is no "accountant union" they don't need a union because they're not idiots - they have a skill..

Is there a civil engineering union? NOPE - they have a skill.

Get the point?

Unions exist because there was a time when labor was exploited by management and workers needed the protections that union membership provided.

Unfortunately over the past fifty years, unions have morphed into organizations that exploit both labor and business to the benefit of union leaders not the workers.

 

[WillowTree]

"They" is corporate America, of course, the ruling class.

And

If corporations could not give money to politicians, there would be no need for unions to do so.

No, unions only exist from laymen greed.

They're unwilling to learn a skill and since there is an abundance of laymen idiot workers supply and demand is not on their side and "organizers" figured out a way to get rich by forming unions and coercing business holding production over their heads if they don't pay a ransom for labor...

It's funny how there is no "accountant union" they don't need a union because they're not idiots - they have a skill..

Is there a civil engineering union? NOPE - they have a skill.

Get the point?

Unions exist because there was a time when labor was exploited by management and workers needed the protections that union membership provided.

Unfortunately over the past fifty years, unions have morphed into organizations that exploit both labor and business to the benefit of union leaders not the workers.

exactly, the union bosses are rich, their workers are unemployed. they still have to pay their dues though employed or not. The unions have priced American jobs overseas and offshore. They have no one to blame but themselves and they try to throw a smoke screen up by blaming the evil rich, wall street and corporations and the unemployed union dupes keep on drinking their kool aid. and NOT answering pertinent questions.

 

[Dragon]

So what will you replace corporate America with?

Like those straw men, don't you?

do you favor politicians receiving no money from anyone anytime anywhere?

I'm in favor of public financing of campaigns such as most democracies today use. I also have no problem with small donations from private individuals. The point is to break the veto power that corporate interests have over public policy.

 

[Dragon]

Unions exist because there was a time when labor was exploited by management and workers needed the protections that union membership provided.

Correct. And as that is still the case, unions are still needed. Unfortunately, they exist to a much lesser degree than was once the case. As a result, real wages have declined over the past thirty years even as productivity and corporate profits have soared.

 

[WillowTree]

So what will you replace corporate America with?

Like those straw men, don't you?

do you favor politicians receiving no money from anyone anytime anywhere?

I'm in favor of public financing of campaigns such as most democracies today use. I also have no problem with small donations from private individuals. The point is to break the veto power that corporate interests have over public policy.

liberal ansswer to I got no answer.. drag out the strawman. why can't you answer?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'd say those polls reflect less of an overall political positioning than they do the success of media-driven propaganda.

And I would say that's an excuse, and a blame-tossing explanation of why people believe as they do, which in no way changes the fact that they do.

It's funny how, when you get past the specific, propagandized phrasing of poll questions to a detailed discussion of the real issues, people who thought they supported the more liberal side find out that they didn't really.

That would be funny, if it were true. Do you have any evidence that it is?

Only experience, and the evidence of polls which changed the wording on the exact same issue questions, and got different responses.

And I'm quite sure you think it's "just an excuse", because you hate the whole idea that the left's intensive media campaign hasn't succeeded in truly changing people in a fundamental way.

 

[Cecilie1200]

then what's yer point?

It's not possible to change capitalism as it's currently practiced without eradicating it altogether? Is that what you believe?

Capitalism is capitalism. If you change it, it's not capitalism any more. So what are you proposing to change it to?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So what will you replace corporate America with?

Like those straw men, don't you?

do you favor politicians receiving no money from anyone anytime anywhere?

I'm in favor of public financing of campaigns such as most democracies today use. I also have no problem with small donations from private individuals. The point is to break the veto power that corporate interests have over public policy.

liberal ansswer to I got no answer.. drag out the strawman. why can't you answer?

And that's the crux of it. Being a radical is fun and tearing America down is totally cool until they realize that they're part of America