Put Up, or Shut Up; What are Republicans offering the Middle class? Be Specific

[Dad2three]

We had a WORLD WIDE CREDIT BUBBLE because of imaginary deregulation?

Nah, it was the Bankster choice to flood the world markets with cheap money, in the US it was just Bush ignoring regulator warnings that started in 2004 (20 years after Reagan ignored S&L warnings, weird), of an EPIDEMIC of fraud that could rival the S&L crisis, Bush gutted the FBI white collate division by over 1,800 agents, over 1/.3rd... HMM how'd that work out?

Darn that Bush!

AND? oh right Dems the minority party in the GOP majority House 1995-2007 had super powers when it came to Fannie/Freddie ACCOUNTING scandals of 2003-2004 they spoke of in the OUT OF CONTEXT vids



The "turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007," the President's Working Group on Financial Markets OCT 2008





Right-wingers Want To Erase How George Bush's "Homeowner Society" Helped Cause The Economic Collapse


June 17, 2004




Home builders, realtors and others are preparing to fight a Bush administration plan that would require Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to increase financing of homes for low-income people, a home builder group said Thursday.

Home builders fight Bush's low-income housing - Jun. 17, 2004



DUBYA FOUGHT ALL 50 STATE AG'S IN 2003, INVOKING A CIVIL WAR ERA RULE SAYING FEDS RULE ON "PREDATORY" LENDERS!

Dubya was warned by the FBI of an "epidemic" of mortgage fraud in 2004. He gave them less resources. Later in 2004 Dubya allowed the leverage rules to go from 12-1 to 33-1 which flooded the market with cheap money!


2004 Republican Convention:

Another priority for a new term is to build an ownership society, because ownership brings security and dignity and independence.
...

Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high.

(APPLAUSE)

Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, so more American families will be able to open the door and say, "Welcome to my home."

 

[Dad2three]

We had a WORLD WIDE CREDIT BUBBLE because of imaginary deregulation?

Nah, it was the Bankster choice to flood the world markets with cheap money, in the US it was just Bush ignoring regulator warnings that started in 2004 (20 years after Reagan ignored S&L warnings, weird), of an EPIDEMIC of fraud that could rival the S&L crisis, Bush gutted the FBI white collate division by over 1,800 agents, over 1/.3rd... HMM how'd that work out?

Darn that Bush!

Q When did the Bush Mortgage Bubble start?

A The general timeframe is it started late 2004.

From Bush’s President’s Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008

“The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”


One president controlled the regulators that not only let banks stop checking income but cheered them on. And as president Bush could enact the very policies that caused the Bush Mortgage Bubble and he did. And his party controlled congress.



"(In 2000, Clinton) HUD restricted Freddie and Fannie, saying it would not credit them for loans they purchased that had abusively high costs or that were granted without regard to the borrower's ability to repay."

How HUD Mortgage Policy Fed The Crisis

"In 2004 (BUSH), the 2000 rules were dropped and high‐risk loans were again counted toward affordable housing goals."


http://www.prmia.org/sites/default/files/references/Fannie_Mae_and_Freddie_Mac_090911_v2.pdf



June 17, 2004


Home builders, realtors and others are preparing to fight a Bush administration plan that would require Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to increase financing of homes for low-income people, a home builder group said Thursday.

Home builders fight Bush's low-income housing - Jun. 17, 2004



Fannie, Freddie to Suffer Under New Rule, Frank Says

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would suffer financially under a Bush administration requirement that they channel more mortgage financing to people with low incomes, said the senior Democrat on a congressional panel that sets regulations for the companies.


So if your narrative is "GSEs are to blame" then you have to blame bush


http://democrats.financialservices....s/112/06-17-04-new-Fannie-goals-Bloomberg.pdf


ANYTHING ELSE?

 

[The Rabbi]

We're living with the deregulated nirvana that was supposed to free companies to expand and give regular folks wonderful jobs and lives. Remember? It's too bad they chose instead to de-industrialize this country and replace those jobs with Walmart checker opportunities.

Please point to any deregulation that happened in the last 25 years. There has been none. There has been the opposite in fact.
We are living in an over regulated dystopia designed by liberal Democrats and RINOs where gov't tells everyone what they can and cannot do. How has that been working out?

Well, for one there's this little thing called NAFTA. Maybe you've heard of it. I could go on if I had the time and inclination but I don't.

NAFTA did not deregulate anything.
Next.

 

[The Rabbi]

Banks used cheap capital to create a bubble. Their lending strategies fueled and fed off the housing bubble, and they did so using mortgage products whose performance was premised on continued growth of that bubble.


After 2004, the financial industry coalesced around high
-risk mortgage lending as their primary cash crop. Subprime mortgages, which had been an effective if sometimes shady means of extending credit availability to under-served borrowers, suddenly became a foundation of 21st century financial capitalism. The complete collapse of the financial system and resulting recession have shown the folly of that strategy. What has saved the financial sector is the government takeover of the GSEs and the bailout of the rest of the banking system




Regulators and policymakers enabled this process at virtually every turn. Part of the reason they failed to understand the housing bubble was willful ignorance: they bought into the argument that the market would equilibrate itself. In particular, financial actors and regulatory officials both believed that secondary and tertiary markets could effectively control risk through pricing.


http://www.tobinproject.org/sites/tobinproject.org/files/assets/Fligstein_Catalyst of Disaster_0.pdf


Conservative Ideas Can't Escape Blame for the Financial Crisis


The onset of the recent financial crisis in late 2007 created an intellectual crisis for conservatives, who had been touting for decades the benefits of a hands-off approach to financial market regulation. As the crisis quickly spiraled out of control, it quickly became apparent that the massive credit bubble of the mid-2000s, followed by the inevitable bust that culminated with the financial markets freeze in the fall of 2008, occurred predominantly among those parts of the financial system that were least regulated, or where regulations existed but were largely unenforced.

Predictably, many conservatives sought to blame the bogeymen they always blamed

Politics Most Blatant | Center for American Progress

Yeah center for american retards is a fail right off.
Thanks for pointing out that there was no deregulation. The regulation failed. More regulation will fail more.

Yeah a WORLD WIDE CREDIT BUBBLE was because of too much regulation *shaking head*

There was no deregulation. Credit bubbles occur regardless of the level of regulation.
/fail
The more you post, the more ignorant you appear. I'd do something about that.

 

[Dad2three]

Yeah center for american retards is a fail right off.
Thanks for pointing out that there was no deregulation. The regulation failed. More regulation will fail more.

Yeah a WORLD WIDE CREDIT BUBBLE was because of too much regulation *shaking head*

There was no deregulation. Credit bubbles occur regardless of the level of regulation.
/fail
The more you post, the more ignorant you appear. I'd do something about that.

NO deregulation? lol

But no, the current recession is BECAUSE of WHO we put in as REGULATOR. Weird we elect those guys who don't 'believe in' regulations and regulators then are shocked they ignore regulator warnings (Reagan 1984, Bush 2004)....




DUBYA'S SUBPRIME BUBBLE:


Regulators and policymakers enabled this process at virtually every turn. Part of the reason they failed to understand the housing bubble was willful ignorance: they bought into the argument that the market would equilibrate itself. In particular, financial actors and regulatory officials both believed that secondary and tertiary markets could effectively control risk through pricing.


http://www.tobinproject.org/sites/tobinproject.org/files/assets/Fligstein_Catalyst of Disaster_0.pdf

 

[Dad2three]

Please point to any deregulation that happened in the last 25 years. There has been none. There has been the opposite in fact.
We are living in an over regulated dystopia designed by liberal Democrats and RINOs where gov't tells everyone what they can and cannot do. How has that been working out?

Well, for one there's this little thing called NAFTA. Maybe you've heard of it. I could go on if I had the time and inclination but I don't.

NAFTA did not deregulate anything.
Next.

What is termed "free trade" is actually deregulating international commerce

 

[The Rabbi]

Yeah a WORLD WIDE CREDIT BUBBLE was because of too much regulation *shaking head*

There was no deregulation. Credit bubbles occur regardless of the level of regulation.
/fail
The more you post, the more ignorant you appear. I'd do something about that.

NO deregulation? lol

But no, the current recession is BECAUSE of WHO we put in as REGULATOR. Weird we elect those guys who don't 'believe in' regulations and regulators then are shocked they ignore regulator warnings (Reagan 1984, Bush 2004)....




DUBYA'S SUBPRIME BUBBLE:


Regulators and policymakers enabled this process at virtually every turn. Part of the reason they failed to understand the housing bubble was willful ignorance: they bought into the argument that the market would equilibrate itself. In particular, financial actors and regulatory officials both believed that secondary and tertiary markets could effectively control risk through pricing.


http://www.tobinproject.org/sites/tobinproject.org/files/assets/Fligstein_Catalyst of Disaster_0.pdf

So now you agree there was no deregulation but it was the regulators fault for not regulating enough. And your solution no doubt is more regulation. Amiright?
Like I said, dumber with every posting.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well, for one there's this little thing called NAFTA. Maybe you've heard of it. I could go on if I had the time and inclination but I don't.

NAFTA did not deregulate anything.
Next.

What is termed "free trade" is actually deregulating international commerce

That's completely wrong. Not just somewhat wrong but totally wrong.
NAFTA reduced tariff rates but increased regulation on entities doing business across the border. Just look at all the stuff Mexican truckers have to go through here.
Dumber with every post.

 

[Dad2three]

There was no deregulation. Credit bubbles occur regardless of the level of regulation.
/fail
The more you post, the more ignorant you appear. I'd do something about that.

NO deregulation? lol

But no, the current recession is BECAUSE of WHO we put in as REGULATOR. Weird we elect those guys who don't 'believe in' regulations and regulators then are shocked they ignore regulator warnings (Reagan 1984, Bush 2004)....




DUBYA'S SUBPRIME BUBBLE:


Regulators and policymakers enabled this process at virtually every turn. Part of the reason they failed to understand the housing bubble was willful ignorance: they bought into the argument that the market would equilibrate itself. In particular, financial actors and regulatory officials both believed that secondary and tertiary markets could effectively control risk through pricing.


http://www.tobinproject.org/sites/tobinproject.org/files/assets/Fligstein_Catalyst of Disaster_0.pdf

So now you agree there was no deregulation but it was the regulators fault for not regulating enough. And your solution no doubt is more regulation. Amiright?
Like I said, dumber with every posting.

I agree there was no deregulation? Yeah, ONLY if you leave out Glass Steagal (Financial Services Modernization Act )


AND

Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (Future left in the 'markets' hands)


Not regulating enough? How about just doing what was REQUIRED?


FBI saw threat of loan crisis

A top official warned of widening mortgage fraud in 2004, but the agency focused its resources elsewhere.

"It has the potential to be an epidemic,"

They ended up with fewer resources, rather than more.

In 2007, the number of agents pursuing mortgage fraud shrank to around 100. By comparison, the FBI had about 1,000 agents deployed on banking fraud during the S&L bust of the 1980s and '90s,


FBI saw threat of loan crisis - Los Angeles Times


Greenspan - I was wrong about the economy. Sort of

A long-time cheerleader for deregulation, Greenspan admitted to a congressional committee yesterday that he had been "partially wrong" in his hands-off approach towards the banking industry and that the credit crunch had left him in a state of shocked disbelief. "I have found a flaw," said Greenspan, referring to his economic philosophy. "I don't know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact."


"I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organisations, specifically banks and others, were such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms," said Greenspan.

Greenspan - I was wrong about the economy. Sort of | Business | The Guardian



DUBYA FOUGHT ALL 50 STATE AG'S IN 2003, INVOKING A CIVIL WAR ERA RULE SAYING FEDS RULE ON "PREDATORY" LENDERS!


Later in 2004 Dubya allowed the leverage rules to go from 12-1 to 33-1 which flooded the market with cheap money!

 

[JoeNormal]

NAFTA did not deregulate anything.
Next.

What is termed "free trade" is actually deregulating international commerce

That's completely wrong. Not just somewhat wrong but totally wrong.
NAFTA reduced tariff rates but increased regulation on entities doing business across the border. Just look at all the stuff Mexican truckers have to go through here.
Dumber with every post.

Wow, you guys really know how to look at the big picture don't you. Why might it be advantageous for the truckers to jump through a few more hoops? Because the manufacturers they haul for don't have to conform to any of the pollution standards that American companies would. But then, you probably think that's a good thing.

 

[Dad2three]

NAFTA did not deregulate anything.
Next.

What is termed "free trade" is actually deregulating international commerce

That's completely wrong. Not just somewhat wrong but totally wrong.
NAFTA reduced tariff rates but increased regulation on entities doing business across the border. Just look at all the stuff Mexican truckers have to go through here.
Dumber with every post.

Got it, you don't understand complex issues and fall back on the typical right wing garbage



“Free trade” really means “deregulated international commerce” — similar to deregulated finance in justification and effect.

 

[The Rabbi]

What is termed "free trade" is actually deregulating international commerce

That's completely wrong. Not just somewhat wrong but totally wrong.
NAFTA reduced tariff rates but increased regulation on entities doing business across the border. Just look at all the stuff Mexican truckers have to go through here.
Dumber with every post.

Got it, you don't understand complex issues and fall back on the typical right wing garbage



“Free trade” really means “deregulated international commerce” — similar to deregulated finance in justification and effect.

You dont have the slightest fucking clue what you're talking about.
The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

NO deregulation? lol

But no, the current recession is BECAUSE of WHO we put in as REGULATOR. Weird we elect those guys who don't 'believe in' regulations and regulators then are shocked they ignore regulator warnings (Reagan 1984, Bush 2004)....




DUBYA'S SUBPRIME BUBBLE:


Regulators and policymakers enabled this process at virtually every turn. Part of the reason they failed to understand the housing bubble was willful ignorance: they bought into the argument that the market would equilibrate itself. In particular, financial actors and regulatory officials both believed that secondary and tertiary markets could effectively control risk through pricing.


http://www.tobinproject.org/sites/tobinproject.org/files/assets/Fligstein_Catalyst of Disaster_0.pdf

So now you agree there was no deregulation but it was the regulators fault for not regulating enough. And your solution no doubt is more regulation. Amiright?
Like I said, dumber with every posting.

I agree there was no deregulation? Yeah, ONLY if you leave out Glass Steagal (Financial Services Modernization Act )


AND

Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (Future left in the 'markets' hands)


Not regulating enough? How about just doing what was REQUIRED?


FBI saw threat of loan crisis

A top official warned of widening mortgage fraud in 2004, but the agency focused its resources elsewhere.

"It has the potential to be an epidemic,"

They ended up with fewer resources, rather than more.

In 2007, the number of agents pursuing mortgage fraud shrank to around 100. By comparison, the FBI had about 1,000 agents deployed on banking fraud during the S&L bust of the 1980s and '90s,


FBI saw threat of loan crisis - Los Angeles Times


Greenspan - I was wrong about the economy. Sort of

A long-time cheerleader for deregulation, Greenspan admitted to a congressional committee yesterday that he had been "partially wrong" in his hands-off approach towards the banking industry and that the credit crunch had left him in a state of shocked disbelief. "I have found a flaw," said Greenspan, referring to his economic philosophy. "I don't know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact."


"I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organisations, specifically banks and others, were such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms," said Greenspan.

Greenspan - I was wrong about the economy. Sort of | Business | The Guardian



DUBYA FOUGHT ALL 50 STATE AG'S IN 2003, INVOKING A CIVIL WAR ERA RULE SAYING FEDS RULE ON "PREDATORY" LENDERS!


Later in 2004 Dubya allowed the leverage rules to go from 12-1 to 33-1 which flooded the market with cheap money!

A top official warned of widening mortgage fraud in 2004

Holy crap!! People were taking out fraudulent mortgages??

That never happened before in US history, did it?

 

[Dad2three]

That's completely wrong. Not just somewhat wrong but totally wrong.
NAFTA reduced tariff rates but increased regulation on entities doing business across the border. Just look at all the stuff Mexican truckers have to go through here.
Dumber with every post.

Got it, you don't understand complex issues and fall back on the typical right wing garbage



“Free trade” really means “deregulated international commerce” — similar to deregulated finance in justification and effect.

You dont have the slightest fucking clue what you're talking about.
The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)

Yeah, THAT just proves NAFTA, that conservative idea Reagan announced the day he ran for Prez in 1979 isn't really deregulation *shaking head*


"free trade" becomes a recipe for standards-lowering competition



Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics AND 'FREE TRADE' ) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite

 

[Dad2three]

So now you agree there was no deregulation but it was the regulators fault for not regulating enough. And your solution no doubt is more regulation. Amiright?
Like I said, dumber with every posting.

I agree there was no deregulation? Yeah, ONLY if you leave out Glass Steagal (Financial Services Modernization Act )


AND

Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (Future left in the 'markets' hands)


Not regulating enough? How about just doing what was REQUIRED?


FBI saw threat of loan crisis

A top official warned of widening mortgage fraud in 2004, but the agency focused its resources elsewhere.

"It has the potential to be an epidemic,"

They ended up with fewer resources, rather than more.

In 2007, the number of agents pursuing mortgage fraud shrank to around 100. By comparison, the FBI had about 1,000 agents deployed on banking fraud during the S&L bust of the 1980s and '90s,


FBI saw threat of loan crisis - Los Angeles Times


Greenspan - I was wrong about the economy. Sort of

A long-time cheerleader for deregulation, Greenspan admitted to a congressional committee yesterday that he had been "partially wrong" in his hands-off approach towards the banking industry and that the credit crunch had left him in a state of shocked disbelief. "I have found a flaw," said Greenspan, referring to his economic philosophy. "I don't know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact."


"I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organisations, specifically banks and others, were such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms," said Greenspan.

Greenspan - I was wrong about the economy. Sort of | Business | The Guardian



DUBYA FOUGHT ALL 50 STATE AG'S IN 2003, INVOKING A CIVIL WAR ERA RULE SAYING FEDS RULE ON "PREDATORY" LENDERS!


Later in 2004 Dubya allowed the leverage rules to go from 12-1 to 33-1 which flooded the market with cheap money!

A top official warned of widening mortgage fraud in 2004

Holy crap!! People were taking out fraudulent mortgages??

That never happened before in US history, did it?

THEN GUTTING REGULATORS WHO WARNED?

Fighting ALL 50 states by invoking a civil war era rule?

Allowing the 5 investment banks to more than triple their leverage which flooded the market with cheap money?


YOU are NEVER honest Bubba

 

[kaz]

Put Up, or Shut Up; What are Republicans offering the Middle class? Be Specific

You measure "offer" in handouts. Others measure "offer" in opportunity. Unlike you, I'll take all I can get of the latter...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Got it, you don't understand complex issues and fall back on the typical right wing garbage



“Free trade” really means “deregulated international commerce” — similar to deregulated finance in justification and effect.

You dont have the slightest fucking clue what you're talking about.
The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)

Yeah, THAT just proves NAFTA, that conservative idea Reagan announced the day he ran for Prez in 1979 isn't really deregulation *shaking head*


"free trade" becomes a recipe for standards-lowering competition



Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics AND 'FREE TRADE' ) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite

Let's add a coupla thousand pages of additional regulations, that'll make it all better.

 

[Dad2three]

So now you agree there was no deregulation but it was the regulators fault for not regulating enough. And your solution no doubt is more regulation. Amiright?
Like I said, dumber with every posting.

I agree there was no deregulation? Yeah, ONLY if you leave out Glass Steagal (Financial Services Modernization Act )


AND

Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (Future left in the 'markets' hands)


Not regulating enough? How about just doing what was REQUIRED?


FBI saw threat of loan crisis

A top official warned of widening mortgage fraud in 2004, but the agency focused its resources elsewhere.

"It has the potential to be an epidemic,"

They ended up with fewer resources, rather than more.

In 2007, the number of agents pursuing mortgage fraud shrank to around 100. By comparison, the FBI had about 1,000 agents deployed on banking fraud during the S&L bust of the 1980s and '90s,


FBI saw threat of loan crisis - Los Angeles Times


Greenspan - I was wrong about the economy. Sort of

A long-time cheerleader for deregulation, Greenspan admitted to a congressional committee yesterday that he had been "partially wrong" in his hands-off approach towards the banking industry and that the credit crunch had left him in a state of shocked disbelief. "I have found a flaw," said Greenspan, referring to his economic philosophy. "I don't know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact."


"I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organisations, specifically banks and others, were such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms," said Greenspan.

Greenspan - I was wrong about the economy. Sort of | Business | The Guardian



DUBYA FOUGHT ALL 50 STATE AG'S IN 2003, INVOKING A CIVIL WAR ERA RULE SAYING FEDS RULE ON "PREDATORY" LENDERS!


Later in 2004 Dubya allowed the leverage rules to go from 12-1 to 33-1 which flooded the market with cheap money!

A top official warned of widening mortgage fraud in 2004

Holy crap!! People were taking out fraudulent mortgages??

That never happened before in US history, did it?

BUT ABOUT THOSE VIDS OF THE DEMS? lol

 

[The Rabbi]

Got it, you don't understand complex issues and fall back on the typical right wing garbage



“Free trade” really means “deregulated international commerce” — similar to deregulated finance in justification and effect.

You dont have the slightest fucking clue what you're talking about.
The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)

Yeah, THAT just proves NAFTA, that conservative idea Reagan announced the day he ran for Prez in 1979 isn't really deregulation *shaking head*


"free trade" becomes a recipe for standards-lowering competition



Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics AND 'FREE TRADE' ) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite

So did NAFTA bring more regulations or fewer regulations? Just answer the question, asswipe.

 

[Dad2three]

You dont have the slightest fucking clue what you're talking about.
The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)

Yeah, THAT just proves NAFTA, that conservative idea Reagan announced the day he ran for Prez in 1979 isn't really deregulation *shaking head*


"free trade" becomes a recipe for standards-lowering competition



Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics AND 'FREE TRADE' ) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite

Let's add a coupla thousand pages of additional regulations, that'll make it all better.

Good Gov't policy conservatives don't 'believe in'? Nah....