Zone1 Question for Christians

[Blues Man]

Oh, I see, you want God to use YOUR moral compass. What makes you think that God does NOT stop evil when it gets too extreme? Weren't you just complaining that you didn't like the way He did it? And, our country's response to crimes has changed over the years. There was a time when you could be executed for stealing a horse, now there are places where you can't be executed for anything. God doesn't change like that.

So I guess Hitler killing 6 million Jews was not extreme enough right?

 

[hadit]

We are not talking about Israel we are talking about your god.

An immortal, omniscient, omnipotent being that feels the needs to kill children because they are considered enemies.

We're talking about Israel because that's who got that commandment. I find it interesting that those who profess to not believe in God at all ALWAYS delve into the commandments the nation of Israel was given for dealing with their enemies, without considering anything else.

 

[Blues Man]

We're talking about Israel because that's who got that commandment. I find it interesting that those who profess to not believe in God at all ALWAYS delve into the commandments the nation of Israel was given for dealing with their enemies, without considering anything else.

That's how your god weasels out of it huh?

Like I said there is absolutely no evidence that your god loves the humans it created.

 

[hadit]

So I guess Hitler killing 6 million Jews was not extreme enough right?

Look what it got him. Like I said, God is slow to get really angry, but when He does, He really gets angry. Also look what it got the Jews, their own homeland after 1,900 years without one.

 

[hadit]

That's how your god weasels out of it huh?

Like I said there is absolutely no evidence that your god loves the humans it created.

You can't see anything when you keep your eyes closed.

 

[Blues Man]

Look what it got him. Like I said, God is slow to get really angry, but when He does, He really gets angry. Also look what it got the Jews, their own homeland after 1,900 years without one.

Your god could have done that without 6 million people being tortured and murdered.

Your god does not give a single shit about the people on this planet

 

[Blues Man]

You can't see anything when you keep your eyes closed.

Your eyes are closed because you refuse to see that your god doesn't care about the people on this planet.

 

[BULLDOG]

I don't see where rape of little girls is commanded. I do see total destruction of the nations that were occupying the land God promised to Israel, and that only if a city refused an offer of peace. They didn't always follow through on it, however, and that cost them a great deal later on, which shows the wisdom of doing what God commands, the way He says to do it.

God takes judgement seriously, so should we.

Read the scripture a little closer. The offer of peace was under the condition of total surrender, and those accepting the offer would become slaves. He also said the conquered women and children were plunder, and were to be used as the conquerors saw fit.

 

[BULLDOG]

Oh, I see, you want God to use YOUR moral compass. What makes you think that God does NOT stop evil when it gets too extreme? Weren't you just complaining that you didn't like the way He did it? And, our country's response to crimes has changed over the years. There was a time when you could be executed for stealing a horse, now there are places where you can't be executed for anything. God doesn't change like that.

You could be executed for stealing a horse because taking a person's horse was often the same as murder. A horse was often the dfference between life and death in the vast unpopulated areas.

 

[Dadoalex]

What do you not understand?

I understand all the words.
BUT
When you put them in that order you are incomprehensible.

 

[Dadoalex]

"3-month Buddhists" are for me people who think they are able to learn in three months what professional Tibetan monks need 30 years for to learn.

What means for you "In Buddhism I am but a child"?

I have studied long but the journey is just beginning.

 

[LibertyKid]

Exactly. If you find comfort in religion, then by all means, you should adhere to it. As I said before, I wish I could have that much trust in a god whose actions described in the bible can only be seen by a rational person as petty and hateful. Obviouly it helps to cherry pick only the soothing parts, but I just don't see that as a rational choice. Enjoy your religion, but don't try to judge my life by your beliefs, like todays christians are so determined to do.

I think part of the problem is "biblical" narrative. Modern Christianity lumps OT and the NT into one cohesive, infallible, "Word of God". First, the Bible never says that of itself. Second, the Bible was canonized 3 centuries after the life of Christ by the Roman empire who new the power of religion over the people. Can we really trust 'man' to decide what is and isn't the "Word of God" completely correct? Nope. Jesus never said or spoke anything of a "Bible", never. It's an assumption that even the NT authors considered their own writings to be scripture.

Moving on. The problem today is too many Christians try and harmonize the OT waring god with the NT, law breaking teaching of Christ. Maybe, Just maybe, the jews got God all wrong. Maybe, just maybe the wars they battled, the human atrocities they attributed to God, while trying to anthropomorphic God, was WRONG? And therefore Christ says... Nope, you got it all wrong. Here is what God really wants for his people.

In a nutshell. You can throw out the OT as a Gentile Christian. I now for some Christians that's absolute blasphemy. But if you think about it, what did the first few centuries of Christians do without the "Bible"? They didn't have one. Yet, they had a great faith than those today. The God of the OT is mis characterized. The law of Moses was broken. Christ is the law. He is the example, for how Christians should live. And Paul new this as well. This is why he and Peter had their own conflicts.

 

[LibertyKid]

So the OT is inaccurate then.

Yes. Modern Christianity has incorrectly tried to harmonize the OT God with the NT example of God through Jesus. The two absolutely cannot mesh.
IMO, the Moses and the OT authors of the OT attributed, incorrectly, their own acts and decisions to God in an attempt to explain and justify God. They tried, but they didn't get it completely right. Jesus is the law breaker. He was the new example of God, in flesh. And the Jews, well not all of them, still failed to recognize God because they were so attached to their own scriptures of who God should be, a warring god to over throw their oppressors.

In short, the OT, IMO, can be tossed for Christians.

 

[Blues Man]

Yes. Modern Christianity has incorrectly tried to harmonize the OT God with the NT example of God through Jesus. The two absolutely cannot mesh.
IMO, the Moses and the OT authors of the OT attributed, incorrectly, their own acts and decisions to God in an attempt to explain and justify God. They tried, but they didn't get it completely right. Jesus is the law breaker. He was the new example of God, in flesh. And the Jews, well not all of them, still failed to recognize God because they were so attached to their own scriptures of who God should be, a warring god to over throw their oppressors.

In short, the OT, IMO, can be tossed for Christians.

I have always said that the OT and the NT don't talk about the same gods.

It's pretty easy to see that Jews, Christians and Muslims do not all worship the same god even though most of them are taught to believe they do.

 

[LibertyKid]

I have always said that the OT and the NT don't talk about the same gods.

It's pretty easy to see that Jews, Christians and Muslims do not all worship the same god even though most of them are taught to believe they do.

They maybe the same, but understood differently based on specific revelations and humanistic interpretation of an unknowable god. Jews, Christians and Muslims are basically no different than "Denominations" today. Denominations exist because humans can read the exact same text and come away with different ideas on the meaning.

IMO, Christians practice Bibliolatry where they put way too much emphasis on their own Belief of the Bible, when in fact, the Bible never says of itself the things that Christians today say they must believe about the bible to be a Christian. If a First century Christian didn't have a bible, then why do I need one today?
Now, the NT letters and gospels, those are important to the faith, but the idea that Christians must slap the OT and the NT together, call it infallible, and practice hermeneutic gymnastics to harmonize the OT and NT is hogwash. Christ broke the law. He is the Law and his life and teachings are the example of the new law, for Christians today.

 

[BULLDOG]

We're talking about Israel because that's who got that commandment. I find it interesting that those who profess to not believe in God at all ALWAYS delve into the commandments the nation of Israel was given for dealing with their enemies, without considering anything else.

So which parts of Christianity do you want to be off limits. Modern Christians regularly just ignore the parts they don't like and augment the parts they do. Perhaps you should just rewrite the bible to only include the good parts.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes. Modern Christianity has incorrectly tried to harmonize the OT God with the NT example of God through Jesus. The two absolutely cannot mesh.

The two harmonize better than you suppose. It takes tremendous study to understand it.

IMO, the Moses and the OT authors of the OT attributed, incorrectly, their own acts and decisions to God in an attempt to explain and justify God. They tried, but they didn't get it completely right.

I can agree that some Old Testament authors did attribute their own acts and decisions to God. However, I don't think their motives were to explain and justify God--but to explain and justify their own actions. "God said to" is a great way to let oneself off the hook. Samuel may be a good example of this.

This being said, I do see where Old Testament characters were trying to follow the Law set forth--some by God, but some by their present society. Rules of war for example, or what soldiers get away with in war that they would never, ever consider doing in times of peace. There are accounts of non-Biblical wars that record the same atrocities we note in Biblical wars.

 

[hadit]

Your god could have done that without 6 million people being tortured and murdered.

And you would have found fault for Him helping them in a supernatural way. Face it, you will pretend to find fault with everything He does because you do not want to believe in Him.

Your god does not give a single shit about the people on this planet

Well, except for the whole crucifixion and resurrection thing, setting up a way for man to be reconciled to Him, supernatural peace, love and joy. You know, all that stuff.

 

[hadit]

So which parts of Christianity do you want to be off limits. Modern Christians regularly just ignore the parts they don't like and augment the parts they do. Perhaps you should just rewrite the bible to only include the good parts.

First, Christianity =/= the nation of Israel, so if you expect today's Christians to live like the Jews of 3,000 years ago, it's not happening.
Second, I've noticed that you've referenced nothing that Yeshua Himself has said. Why is that?
Third, what part of "Christianity" (in quotes because I don't know if you really understand what that means) do you think I want to ignore?

 

[BULLDOG]

First, Christianity =/= the nation of Israel, so if you expect today's Christians to live like the Jews of 3,000 years ago, it's not happening.
Second, I've noticed that you've referenced nothing that Yeshua Himself has said. Why is that?
Third, what part of "Christianity" (in quotes because I don't know if you really understand what that means) do you think I want to ignore?

So many absurdities in christianity. It purports to be based on the teachings of Jesus, yet Paul, who never actually met Jesus, was the author of most of the NT, where he contradicted Jesus's teachings many times. A supposedly loving, nurturing god who also tells soldiers that women and little ones were the spoils of war, and the soldiers should use them as such. Read it for yourself, or, you can do like todays christians have always done and ignore the parts you don't like and even add a little to it, if you think it will justify your real wishes.