Zone1 Question for Christians

[hadit]

Paul Contradicts Jesus

A list of Paul's contradictions of Jesus

www.voiceofjesus.org

And you claim to have been a devout Christian? Someone like that should have enough understanding of the Word to know that source is baloney. Since I don't have the time right now, I'll go through at least some of their wild claims and point out where they are completely off base. You should, though, have been able to do that yourself.

 

[Meriweather]

Which circles back to my origonal question in the OP. How do you resolve the difference in those two satements. I have searched and pondered the answer to that question, and have yet to find anything other than suspending reality and imagining they aren't incompatable. You say they somehow blend togeather. Please descrbe the nature of this blending, the nuts and bolts, of it.

I am trying to understand you. By any chance did you live a sheltered life? Have you never noticed the differences in yourself, in your family members, in the friends you choose? What about saying the exact same thing to two people, and with one it works well, and the other it doesn't? Perhaps you have never been in the military nor had any family or friends in the military?

The difference between the classrooms where I work (no classroom is the same) and the military assignments of other family members are night and day.

Joshua went in search of peace. The other side chose war. And in a war, it is a situation where you wipe them out or they wipe you out. And later suffer PTSD. It is either that or death once the opponent chooses war.

I cannot be convinced that your "same reality" works in all cases at all times--because it doesn't. God in our midst...the realities of war is not going to be the same reality as strife in the home or workplace.

In the passage you selected (Romans Chapter 9), Paul was in a particular place at a particular time in his life. National politics and different beliefs--even within the same denominations--were rampant. Add outside denominations/faiths and more turmoil. Paul was trying to make sense of the turmoil within his own people, his own faith. He saw that, he lived it, but when he gazed far into the future he saw everyone finally coming together in the glory of God.

 

[Meriweather]

And you claim to have been a devout Christian? Someone like that should have enough understanding of the Word to know that source is baloney. Since I don't have the time right now, I'll go through at least some of their wild claims and point out where they are completely off base. You should, though, have been able to do that yourself.

People overlook context when they try to compare what people said decades apart. Add the context, and...where's the contradiction? (I think that is why such lists never bother with context.)

 

[hadit]

People overlook context when they try to compare what people said decades apart. Add the context, and...where's the contradiction? (I think that is why such lists never bother with context.)

I also notice that the "contradictions" usually involve very tightly bounded sections of Scripture, so as to give the appearance of the desired outcome. Something like this:

I could say, "Sometimes, parents don't give their children more than passing attention between picking them up from daycare and putting them to bed because they feel they have no choice but for both parents to work full time jobs. High taxes and cost of living leave little time for anything else".

Someone could then produce a quote of me saying, "parents don't give their children more than passing attention", and claim that I am anti-parent. Someone else can point out the rest of what I said and they could come back that is just a matter of interpretation, that I really meant what they say I meant.

 

[BULLDOG]

And you claim to have been a devout Christian? Someone like that should have enough understanding of the Word to know that source is baloney. Since I don't have the time right now, I'll go through at least some of their wild claims and point out where they are completely off base. You should, though, have been able to do that yourself.

The source is baloney? Which of the listed scriptures are not accurate quotes from the bible? Just because you don't like the facts presented to you doesn't mean the statements aren't true. I don't have a problem if the information presented on that site happens to be some of what you choose to ignore. It's obvious that today's Christians choose to ignore much of the bible as written, but it's gonna take more than you just saying those examples aren't credible for you to prove anything.

 

[BULLDOG]

I am trying to understand you. By any chance did you live a sheltered life? Have you never noticed the differences in yourself, in your family members, in the friends you choose? What about saying the exact same thing to two people, and with one it works well, and the other it doesn't? Perhaps you have never been in the military nor had any family or friends in the military?

The difference between the classrooms where I work (no classroom is the same) and the military assignments of other family members are night and day.

Joshua went in search of peace. The other side chose war. And in a war, it is a situation where you wipe them out or they wipe you out. And later suffer PTSD. It is either that or death once the opponent chooses war.

I cannot be convinced that your "same reality" works in all cases at all times--because it doesn't. God in our midst...the realities of war is not going to be the same reality as strife in the home or workplace.

In the passage you selected (Romans Chapter 9), Paul was in a particular place at a particular time in his life. National politics and different beliefs--even within the same denominations--were rampant. Add outside denominations/faiths and more turmoil. Paul was trying to make sense of the turmoil within his own people, his own faith. He saw that, he lived it, but when he gazed far into the future he saw everyone finally coming together in the glory of God.

To answer your questions, no I have not had a sheltered life. No, I was lucky enough that my lottery number wasn't called. Yes, I have had several friends and familyin the military.

Sorry, but I'm not sure what any of that has to do with this discussion. Yes, the discussion did temporarily veer off on a tangent about God's instructions for war, but that wasn't the basis for the thread. I will try not to be distracted off the subject;

Joshua might be a good subject for discussion, but for now, I would rather not go off on another tangent. The question remains unanswered. How do you justify the disperate remarks of Paul and Jesus?

Does God offer the chance to go to heaven to everybody, or just his chosen few, and how do you justify what Paul wrote with the idea of a benevolent forgiving God?

 

[Meriweather]

How do you justify the disperate remarks of Paul and Jesus?

I answered this.

 

[Dadoalex]

Hmmm. ... How good are you in mathematics?

Better than most.

Far better, I think, than you at composing cogent responses.

 

[BULLDOG]

I answered this.

You've said lots about how the culture was different, and what Paul must have been thinking, and a wide range of other superfluous things that might be interesting asides. I'm sorry, but I seem to have missed where you directly answered the question. Please link to that post so I can review what was said.

 

[Meriweather]

You've said lots about how the culture was different, and what Paul must have been thinking, and a wide range of other superfluous things that might be interesting asides. I'm sorry, but I seem to have missed where you directly answered the question. Please link to that post so I can review what was said.

Grin. You aren't interested in searching through 550 posts? We agree! Neither am I!

Which direct quote are you using from Jesus? Match that to the direct quote from Paul. Then I'll be happy to try again from a different angle or perspective. Also, tell me precisely why you see them as contradictory. The problem may be that since I do not see them as contradictory, I am unclear exactly why they are contradictory to you. I promise to say focused specifically on that.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Paul Contradicts Jesus

A list of Paul's contradictions of Jesus

www.voiceofjesus.org

ONLY people who have never spent any real study the Scripture for themselves would by into that Heretical website, Sorry man.

 

[JustAGuy1]

You've said lots about how the culture was different, and what Paul must have been thinking, and a wide range of other superfluous things that might be interesting asides. I'm sorry, but I seem to have missed where you directly answered the question. Please link to that post so I can review what was said.

So you doubt the veracity of the Word of God?

Acts 9

3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”

5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”

Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. [a]It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”

6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”

Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 9 - New King James Version

The Damascus Road: Saul Converted - Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[hadit]

The source is baloney? Which of the listed scriptures are not accurate quotes from the bible? Just because you don't like the facts presented to you doesn't mean the statements aren't true. I don't have a problem if the information presented on that site happens to be some of what you choose to ignore. It's obvious that today's Christians choose to ignore much of the bible as written, but it's gonna take more than you just saying those examples aren't credible for you to prove anything.

Let's look at one of them, shall we? This is a CLASSIC example of ignoring context to attempt making an erroneous point.

Luke 21:5-9
5 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, 6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”
7 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”
8 He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. 9 When you hear of wars and uprisings, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.”

Romans 13:11-14
11 And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.[c]

In Luke, what is Yeshua CLEARLY talking about? The destruction of the Temple and the End Times, in response to a question about when it would happen, AND He was warning about false messiahs that would come, claiming to be Him. What, OTOH, is Paul talking about? Straighten up and quit fooling around because Christ could return at any time. Be ready. Now, read both of those sections of Scripture and try to convince me that Paul was doing exactly what Yeshua warned about, being a false messiah.

I mean, you look at THIS and take it seriously as a contradiction between Paul and Yeshua? Deal with this one, then we can move on to another claimed "contradiction". I am now doubting that you ever were a devout Christian if you fell for this baloney. And, to address your complaint that I'm ignoring Scripture, obviously I am reading and comprehending far more of the Bible than you are. C'mon, man, did you really just grab the first entry after you Googled Paul and Jesus contradictions without even looking?

 

[BULLDOG]

Grin. You aren't interested in searching through 550 posts? We agree! Neither am I!

Which direct quote are you using from Jesus? Match that to the direct quote from Paul. Then I'll be happy to try again from a different angle or perspective. Also, tell me precisely why you see them as contradictory. The problem may be that since I do not see them as contradictory, I am unclear exactly why they are contradictory to you. I promise to say focused specifically on that.

Psalms 86 5 “You, Lord, are forgiving and good, abounding in love to all who call to you.” which is pretty close to my actual question which referenced the "idea" of a forgiving loving god. So I had a little brain fart and credited Jesus with a Psalms quote. I hate it when that occasionally happens. However, the question in the OP only mentioned the idea that was expressed instead of the actual quote.

I agree 550 posts would be too many to read. Fortunately, you only made 86 of them, which I skimmed through.

Search results

The question in the OP doesn't refer to Jesus, or Psalms. Only Paul's specific scripture, and the idea of a benevolent and forgiving god.
I didn't find where you gave a direct answer to that question. Perhaps you will cut an old man some slack and repeat what you say you previously posted.

 

[BULLDOG]

So you doubt the veracity of the Word of God?

Acts 9

3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”

5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”

Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. [a]It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”

6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”

Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 9 - New King James Version

The Damascus Road: Saul Converted - Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to...

www.biblegateway.com

I doubt the verasity of much of the bible. I'm no longer convinced that the god you worship and the one I believed in for most of my life even exists.

 

[hadit]

I doubt the verasity of much of the bible. I'm no longer convinced that the god you worship and the one I believed in for most of my life even exists.

At least cast as much of a critical eye on sites that claim to offer evidence of "contradictions", only to reveal very selective copy and paste as you do on the Word of God.

 

[JustAGuy1]

I doubt the verasity of much of the bible. I'm no longer convinced that the god you worship and the one I believed in for most of my life even exists.

Fair enough.

 

[zaangalewa]

Better than most. ...

Then tell me in mathematical terms what is your problem with my statements. What do you not understand? A paradigma of science says for example that everything is true what is not falsifyable. Short: The proposition "god" is not falsifyable - so "god" is true in sense of science. And Kurt Gödel made by the way a mathematical proof for the existance of god which is very difficult to understand because Mr. Kurt Gödel used a special and seldomly used form of mathematical logic for this proof. But up to now everyone who was able to check it out said this proof is mathematically correct. A short time ago some young scientists wrote a computer progam which also found out that the proof of Gödel is correct. So without any doubt atheism is a belief and not knowledge.

 

[BULLDOG]

Then tell me in mathematical terms what is your problem with my statements. What do you not understand? A paradigma of science says for example that everything is true what is not falsifyable. Short: The proposition "god" is not falsifyable - so "god" is true in sense of science. And Kurt Gödel made by the way a mathematical proof for the existance of god which is very difficult to understand because Mr. Kurt Gödel used a special and seldomly used form of mathematical logic for this proof. But up to now everyone who was able to check it out said this proof is mathematically correct. A short time ago some young scientists wrote a computer progam which also found out that the proof of Gödel is correct. So without any doubt atheism is a belief and not knowledge.

Atheism is generally defined as not being convinced that a god exists. Can you prove athiests are, in fact, convinced that a god exists, despite their claims? Obviously, you can't, so by your own determination, atheism is true.

 

[zaangalewa]

I doubt the verasity of much of the bible. I'm no longer convinced that the god you worship and the one I believed in for most of my life even exists.

Do you think it drives god nervous not to exist? God is creator - not creation. Before this universe was created you was not - nothing was - but since it is created you are. And now you are able to dance on ice - if you like to do so.