Questioning UBC

Flanders

ARCHCONSERVATIVE
Sep 23, 2010
7,628
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The media has done its best to make gun controls about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and insane criminals when it’s always been about confiscation.

Before confiscation can began Socialists must overcome one major hurdle: How to confiscate without repealing the Second Amendment. UBC (Universal Background Checks) comes up as the only way to get it done. Once the government knows where the guns are located confiscation can begin incrementally.

Be forewarned

No less of a liberal than Ruth Ginsburg says that Roe v. Wade should have been left to the states. That’s another debate. My point in this thread: The sneaks are trying to say the same thing about gun control laws. The fact is that no state can overturn the Constitution. If individual states like Connecticut et al. can pass laws that effectively abolish the Second Amendment there is no Constitution.

I don’t know what is happening in Connecticut. The media is reporting that Connecticut is about to pass “The toughest gun control law to date” as though it’s a godsend.

I do know that the type of guns and ammo clips the government usually tries to ban runs into a lot of resistence in addition to the constitutional challenges that would surely follow. So all pretenses about rifles and ammo clips being the number one priority have been relegated to second place behind UBC. Universal background checks was always the primary goal; now it’s out in the open:


During a speech last week, Obama asked, “Why wouldn’t we want to make it more difficult for a dangerous person to get his or her hand on a gun? Why wouldn’t we want to close the loophole that allows as many as 40 percent of all gun purchases to take place without a background check? Why wouldn’t we do that?”

Obama criticized for using dated, disputed gun stat to sell background checks
Published April 03, 2013
FoxNews.com

Obama criticized for using dated, disputed gun stat to sell background checks | Fox News

I offer 2 answers to the questions posed by the liar in chief:

1. Because the number of dangerous people is miniscule when compared to the number of butchers in government who are using background checks to disarm tens of millions of law-abiding American gun owners.

2.

Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty, teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon and citizens' firearms are indelibly related. From the hour the pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that, to ensure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 and 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil influence. They deserve a place of honor with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour. George Washington's address to the second session of the First U.S. Congress

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Thomas Jefferson

The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. Thomas Jefferson

The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that ... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. Thomas Jefferson, letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. Thomas Jefferson's advice to his 15-year-old nephew

Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense. John Adams

Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can. Samuel Adams

This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it. Abraham Lincoln

I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason, Co-author of the Second Amendment, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

And we do each of us, for ourselves respectively, promise and engage to keep a good firelock in proper order, & to furnish ourselves as soon as possible with, & always keep by us, one pound of gunpowder, four pounds of lead, one dozen gunflints, & a pair of bullet moulds, with a cartouch box, or powder horn, and bag for balls. George Mason

They tell us that we are weak -- unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Three million people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Patrick Henry

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun. Patrick Henry

It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. Thomas Paine

The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them; the weak would become a prey to the strong. Thomas Paine

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. JFK

The right of the citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible. Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops. Noah Webster

If such a government cannot be overthrown otherwise than by dynamite, then thank God for dynamite! Mark Twain

An armed man is a citizen. A disarmed man is a subject. Anon.

To conquer a nation, first disarm its citizens. Adolf Hitler

If you think a theater filled with unarmed people against a lone gunman is scary, imagine a disarmed populace against a tyrannical government. Anonymous

Finally, the current bunch of bloodthirsty gun control advocates in the White House should be reminded of JFK’s famous observation:

There has never been a greater concentration of intellectual power here at the White House since Thomas Jefferson dined alone.

p.s. I said bloodthirsty with good reason. The minute Culture of Death architects disarm those Americans who are willing to fight for their freedoms the slaughter of all Americans will commence.
 
Snip from your link alleging Obammy is still pushing snake oil:

During a speech last week, Obama asked, “Why wouldn’t we want to make it more difficult for a dangerous person to get his or her hand on a gun? Why wouldn’t we want to close the loophole that allows as many as 40 percent of all gun purchases to take place without a background check? Why wouldn’t we do that?”

The oft-cited figure, it turns out, was pulled from a 1997 study done by the National Institute of Justice. In the study, researchers estimated about 40 percent of all firearm sales took place through people other than licensed gun dealers. The conclusion was based on data from a 1994 survey of 2,568 households. Of those, only 251 people answered the question about where they got their guns.
 
156729_355153374604520_1918785096_n_zps249e6667.jpg
 
the current bunch of bloodthirsty gun control advocates in the White House should be reminded of JFK’s famous observation

Bloodthirsty?

We do see some backward logic on this forum - but can someone explain how reducing the USA's absolutely catastrophic murder rate is "bloodthirsty"?

007 -

Please do not post fake quotes as if they were legitimate.
 
the current bunch of bloodthirsty gun control advocates in the White House should be reminded of JFK’s famous observation

Bloodthirsty?

We do see some backward logic on this forum - but can someone explain how reducing the USA's absolutely catastrophic murder rate is "bloodthirsty"?

007 -

Please do not post fake quotes as if they were legitimate.

Saigon, please prove the quotes are fake, or STFU.
 
007 -

I can not prove what does not exist.

The Reno is obviously fake, has been shown to be fake on this board earlier, and I'd be very surprised if you didn't know it was fake when you posted it. By all means produce the video or audio or her saying it. You won't find it.
 
007 -

Come on, man - the quote is fake and you know it.

What on earth you think you achieve by posting something that everyone can see is a fake I have no idea.
 
The media has done its best to make gun controls about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and insane criminals when it’s always been about confiscation.

Before confiscation can began Socialists must overcome one major hurdle: How to confiscate without repealing the Second Amendment. UBC (Universal Background Checks) comes up as the only way to get it done. Once the government knows where the guns are located confiscation can begin incrementally.

Be forewarned

No less of a liberal than Ruth Ginsburg says that Roe v. Wade should have been left to the states. That’s another debate. My point in this thread: The sneaks are trying to say the same thing about gun control laws. The fact is that no state can overturn the Constitution. If individual states like Connecticut et al. can pass laws that effectively abolish the Second Amendment there is no Constitution.

I don’t know what is happening in Connecticut. The media is reporting that Connecticut is about to pass “The toughest gun control law to date” as though it’s a godsend.

I do know that the type of guns and ammo clips the government usually tries to ban runs into a lot of resistence in addition to the constitutional challenges that would surely follow. So all pretenses about rifles and ammo clips being the number one priority have been relegated to second place behind UBC. Universal background checks was always the primary goal; now it’s out in the open:


During a speech last week, Obama asked, “Why wouldn’t we want to make it more difficult for a dangerous person to get his or her hand on a gun? Why wouldn’t we want to close the loophole that allows as many as 40 percent of all gun purchases to take place without a background check? Why wouldn’t we do that?”

Obama criticized for using dated, disputed gun stat to sell background checks
Published April 03, 2013
FoxNews.com

Obama criticized for using dated, disputed gun stat to sell background checks | Fox News

I offer 2 answers to the questions posed by the liar in chief:

1. Because the number of dangerous people is miniscule when compared to the number of butchers in government who are using background checks to disarm tens of millions of law-abiding American gun owners.

2.

Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty, teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon and citizens' firearms are indelibly related. From the hour the pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that, to ensure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 and 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil influence. They deserve a place of honor with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour. George Washington's address to the second session of the First U.S. Congress

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Thomas Jefferson

The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. Thomas Jefferson

The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that ... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. Thomas Jefferson, letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. Thomas Jefferson's advice to his 15-year-old nephew

Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense. John Adams

Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can. Samuel Adams

This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it. Abraham Lincoln

I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason, Co-author of the Second Amendment, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

And we do each of us, for ourselves respectively, promise and engage to keep a good firelock in proper order, & to furnish ourselves as soon as possible with, & always keep by us, one pound of gunpowder, four pounds of lead, one dozen gunflints, & a pair of bullet moulds, with a cartouch box, or powder horn, and bag for balls. George Mason

They tell us that we are weak -- unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Three million people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Patrick Henry

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun. Patrick Henry

It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. Thomas Paine

The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them; the weak would become a prey to the strong. Thomas Paine

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. JFK

The right of the citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible. Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops. Noah Webster

If such a government cannot be overthrown otherwise than by dynamite, then thank God for dynamite! Mark Twain

An armed man is a citizen. A disarmed man is a subject. Anon.

To conquer a nation, first disarm its citizens. Adolf Hitler

If you think a theater filled with unarmed people against a lone gunman is scary, imagine a disarmed populace against a tyrannical government. Anonymous

Finally, the current bunch of bloodthirsty gun control advocates in the White House should be reminded of JFK’s famous observation:

There has never been a greater concentration of intellectual power here at the White House since Thomas Jefferson dined alone.

p.s. I said bloodthirsty with good reason. The minute Culture of Death architects disarm those Americans who are willing to fight for their freedoms the slaughter of all Americans will commence.

When you call the President the "liar in chief," you completely negate any possibility of showing yourself as a fair minded, rational debater. Try coming at a question from a fair and unbaised position. Otherwise, there is no point in engaging in discussion with you.
 
When you call the President the "liar in chief," you completely negate any possibility of showing yourself as a fair minded, rational debater. Try coming at a question from a fair and unbaised position. Otherwise, there is no point in engaging in discussion with you.

To Esmeralda: There is no such thing as unbiased. Liberals and assorted wimps claim otherwise while they hide their own bias behind passive-aggressive debating techniques.

Were unbiased possible I would reject it. I post my opinions and interpretations; libs and their unbiased brethren are free to do the same. Should a debate result, I sure as hell will go at my passive-aggressive opposites with all of the bias I can muster.

Parenthetically, Jeffrey Lord wrote a brilliant piece about Borking on the highest level —— that is biased liberals destroying their opponents with every means possible. And it’s always good for the country!

Message board liberals and moderates do not have the kind of power top liberals exercise against the people they destroy, but they use many of the same techniques and call it unbiased.

I’ve been personally attacked by “unbiased” Lefties so many times I can predict when a personal attack is coming. When they don’t attack me they attack my sources. I’ve no doubt every one of those Lefties truly believed they were unbiased while I was so biased I would never see the truth until I stopped offending them. They always demand that I stop saying one thing or another, or that I only say what they want to hear.


The Borking of Michele Bachmann
By Jeffrey Lord on 4.4.13 @ 6:09AM
Another conservative gets the Washington treatment.

The American Spectator : The Borking of Michele Bachmann
 
There is no such thing as unbiased.

Yes, there is. Of course there is.

For anyone whose views and politics are moderate, it is possible to view current events on a case-by-case basis. To take evidents at face value using the facts available, and not trying to spin everything into some nightmarish fantasy about 'socialists' and 'rightists' as you do.

It is impossible for anyone with extreme political views to understand news and current events. It is impossible because facts and history do not spin themselves into some convenient scenario whereby left = evil and right = good, or visa versa.
Were unbiased possible I would reject it.

Exactly, and thanks for being honest about that.

You do not want facts - you want propaganda that masquerades as fact.

However, many people do not feel the same way. We want facts, without any spin, doctoring or massaging.
 
Yes, there is. Of course there is.

For anyone whose views and politics are moderate, it is possible to view current events on a case-by-case basis. To take evidents at face value using the facts available, and not trying to spin everything into some nightmarish fantasy about 'socialists' and 'rightists' as you do.

It is impossible for anyone with extreme political views to understand news and current events. It is impossible because facts and history do not spin themselves into some convenient scenario whereby left = evil and right = good, or visa versa.

To Saigon If you engage in a debate you are biased. It is impossible to enter a discussion of any kind without a bias.

If you only read or listen to others you are looking for confirmation for the things you already believe. That is the wimp’s bias.


Exactly, and thanks for being honest about that.

You do not want facts - you want propaganda that masquerades as fact.

However, many people do not feel the same way. We want facts, without any spin, doctoring or massaging.

To Saigon: How neatly you slide from facts into propaganda without claiming the facts I post are false. I’ve seen that move by liberals a hundred times before you. That little tap dance allows them to avoid the obvious: If facts are false they are easy to disprove; thereby, discrediting the poster.

According to Lefties conservatives spout propaganda. Here’s a fact for you: There is no difference between propaganda and BIASED talking points spouted by liberals on message boards.


propaganda (noun)

1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those people advocating such a doctrine or cause.

2. Material disseminated by the advocates of a doctrine or cause: the selected truths, exaggerations, and lies of wartime propaganda.

3. Propaganda. Roman Catholic Church. A division of the Roman Curia that has authority in the matter of preaching the gospel, of establishing the Church in non-Christian countries, and of administering Church missions in territories where there is no properly organized hierarchy.
 
To Saigon If you engage in a debate you are biased. It is impossible to enter a discussion of any kind without a bias.

Possibly - but for very, very many people the extent of their own bias is both known, and very minor.

When I read history books I always have my eyes and ears open for bias from the author's perspective, but I can also be aware of my own bias, and do my best to 'shut that off' when encountering information I might not particularly like.

For instance - I have voted for 4 different political parties in the past 5 elections. I owe no loyalty to no particular party, and am not limited by being simply 'left' or 'right'. I'm a Centrist by nature, which means I often like (and dislike!) politicians from both sides of the political spectrum. What I like least is extremism from either side.

The fact that you keep trying to label me as something I so obviously am not is because of YOUR extremism. Not mine.
 
To Saigon If you engage in a debate you are biased. It is impossible to enter a discussion of any kind without a bias.

Possibly - but for very, very many people the extent of their own bias is both known, and very minor.

When I read history books I always have my eyes and ears open for bias from the author's perspective, but I can also be aware of my own bias, and do my best to 'shut that off' when encountering information I might not particularly like.

For instance - I have voted for 4 different political parties in the past 5 elections. I owe no loyalty to no particular party, and am not limited by being simply 'left' or 'right'. I'm a Centrist by nature, which means I often like (and dislike!) politicians from both sides of the political spectrum. What I like least is extremism from either side.

The fact that you keep trying to label me as something I so obviously am not is because of YOUR extremism. Not mine.

To Saigon: First you moved to bias, next it was propaganda, now you’re hooked on extremism! Keep fishing and you might catch something.

To anyone following this thread: Go to #52 permalink in this thread:


 
Flanders -

Your dodging is duly noted.

To Saigon: Dodging what! I stated my positions clearly. I’ve all but said that being called an extremist in defense of liberty is a compliment. Instead of dodging my premises with personal attacks you might try stating your positions in detail as do I in my messages.
 
To Saigon If you engage in a debate you are biased. It is impossible to enter a discussion of any kind without a bias.
----------snip------------------

The fact that you
keep trying to label me as something I so obviously am not is because of YOUR extremism. Not mine.

Can't be said enough.

There is more to it than the "either/or" "good/bad" manichean stench partisan human cattle fart out of their fingers and mouths.
 

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