Questioning UBC

[asaratis]

Asaratis -

The fact that people post it, does not make it legitimate.

There is no record at all of her ever having said it.

I see you are singularly obtuse for the sake of your argument. When a public figure such as Janet Reno is quoted by so many sources as having said something, you can bet your sweet ass she said it. The fact that I cannot provide you with video confirmation does not rebut the claim that she did.

It takes a man to admit a mistake. I suppose you do not qualify.

 

[Saigon]

Asaratis -

The quote is a fake - and if you do a little research you will find considerable discussion on the net about this. I happened to come across the story by accident some months ago, and thus recognised it when 007 posted it.

You can read Reno's entire speech on the day and time she allegedly said this - the quote is not there, and hundreds of witnesses agree she never said it.

Both you and 007 should admit that.

 

[Flanders]

Asaratis -

The fact that people post it, does not make it legitimate.

There is no record at all of her ever having said it.

I see you are singularly obtuse for the sake of your argument. When a public figure such as Janet Reno is quoted by so many sources as having said something, you can bet your sweet ass she said it. The fact that I cannot provide you with video confirmation does not rebut the claim that she did.

It takes a man to admit a mistake. I suppose you do not qualify.

To asaratis: In an effort to blame the Massacre In Waco on David Koresh, I also believe Reno said it at some point or another; most likely soon after Waco. At the time the government said the Branch Davidians fired the first shot. That has been disproved —— at the very least the question of who fired first remains unanswered. Had the public bought Reno’s story for the killings that would have been justification for disarming every group the government called extremists. Individual gun owners would have been next.

I think it’s important to note that the quotation expresses the beliefs of the radical Left. The big push for background checks ties in with registration before confiscation.

Finally, had the media outcry over the Waco slaughter been one-tenth the outcry the public hears every time a criminally insane nut case goes on a rampage the Second Amendment would be much safer.

 

[Saigon]

I think it’s important to note that the quotation expresses the beliefs of the radical Left.

I think it's important to that the radical right are entirely comfortable with made-up quotes.

 

[asaratis]

I think it’s important to note that the quotation expresses the beliefs of the radical Left.

I think it's important to that the radical right are entirely comfortable with made-up quotes.

I'll go with the Associated Press!

"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of firearms is the goal." - Janet Reno, December 10, 1993 [Associated Press]

When they put "quote" marks around text, that's verbatim what was said. Surely, you understand that word.

"Verbatim" is a word used either as an adverb, adjective or noun, meaning copied "word for word".

 

[Saigon]

Asaratis -

You seem to have forgotten the link....if the quote turns out to be legit, I'll be more than happy to concede the point.

 

[asaratis]

Asaratis -

You seem to have forgotten the link....if the quote turns out to be legit, I'll be more than happy to concede the point.

Here ya go!

Janet "WACO" Reno

 

[Flanders]

Asaratis -

You seem to have forgotten the link....if the quote turns out to be legit, I'll be more than happy to concede the point.

Here ya go!

Janet "WACO" Reno

To asaratis: Thank you for the link. It confirms what I said in #23 permalink:

In an effort to blame the Massacre In Waco on David Koresh, I also believe Reno said it at some point or another; most likely soon after Waco.

The massacre took place in late April of 1993. Reno’s comments came on in early December of 1993.

 

[Saigon]

Asaratis -

With the best will in the world, man, that is hardly a reliable source. I have no problem at all admitting the quote is real if a reliable source says it is...but that?

Here is a discussion concerning Janet Reno and faked quotes, by the way...

The "B'nai B'rith" speech by "Janet Reno"

"The most effective means of fighting crime in the United States is to outlaw the possession of any type of firearm by the civilian populace."
---Falsely attributed to Janet Reno, then-state attorney for Dade County, speech to Ft. Lauderdale, Florida B'nai B'rith gathering, ca.1991.

This supposed "quote" first got national attention when it appeared in the April 1995 issue of Soldier of Fortune, as part of an article by Mike Williams entitled "Citizen Militias: '...Necessary to the Security of a Free State...' " and was picked up by the New York Times Syndicate as part of their coverage of the militia movement in the wake of the bombing in Oklahoma City.

According to editorials by Martin Dyckman, published in the St. Petersburg Times May 2 and May 28, 1995, the "quote" appears to have originated with an affidavit written by Fred Diamond of Miami, FL who claimed to have heard Reno speak in Coral Gables (not Fort Lauderdale) "on or about November 1, 1984". According to Diamond's affidavit, "Janet Reno told the members of our group assembled, that waiting periods were only a step, that registration was only a step, and further that the prohibition of the private ownership of firearms was the only ultimate solution to controlling crime. I was shocked and appalled to hear her, an elected public official sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution, espouse and advocate a position that would effectively repeal the guarantees of the Second Amendment."

Early in 1993, after Reno was nominated to be Attorney General, Diamond talked to Marion Hammer, then the National Rifle Association's Florida lobbyist, and NRA sent him affidavits to sign. Diamond says he rejected their first draft. Subsequently, Hammer's newsletter, Florida Firing Line, published an article on Reno in March 1993, including almost word for word the key passage from Diamond's affidavit about what Reno allegedly said, but the newsletter put the speech in 1991, not 1984. Diamond didn't sign the affidavit (with the correct year) until June 17, 1993, after Reno had already been confirmed.

Reno has been questioned about the "quote" and denies having said it, either in 1991 or 1984. A spokesman for the Justice Department, Bert Brandenburg, told the New York Times syndicate: "The assertion is untrue and the attorney general has never made such a statement" (Cleveland Plain Dealer, May 2, 1995). The Reno "quote" has appeared in print elsewhere, including National Review on May 29, 1995 as part of an article by Alan W. Bock about the militia movement; and was reprinted in a Guns and Ammo editorial by Ed Moats on concealed carry in October of 1996.

GunCite - Gun Control: Bogus gun control quotes

 

[asaratis]

Asaratis -

With the best will in the world, man, that is hardly a reliable source. I have no problem at all admitting the quote is real if a reliable source says it is...but that?

Here is a discussion concerning Janet Reno and faked quotes, by the way...

The "B'nai B'rith" speech by "Janet Reno"

"The most effective means of fighting crime in the United States is to outlaw the possession of any type of firearm by the civilian populace."
---Falsely attributed to Janet Reno, then-state attorney for Dade County, speech to Ft. Lauderdale, Florida B'nai B'rith gathering, ca.1991.

This supposed "quote" first got national attention when it appeared in the April 1995 issue of Soldier of Fortune, as part of an article by Mike Williams entitled "Citizen Militias: '...Necessary to the Security of a Free State...' " and was picked up by the New York Times Syndicate as part of their coverage of the militia movement in the wake of the bombing in Oklahoma City.

According to editorials by Martin Dyckman, published in the St. Petersburg Times May 2 and May 28, 1995, the "quote" appears to have originated with an affidavit written by Fred Diamond of Miami, FL who claimed to have heard Reno speak in Coral Gables (not Fort Lauderdale) "on or about November 1, 1984". According to Diamond's affidavit, "Janet Reno told the members of our group assembled, that waiting periods were only a step, that registration was only a step, and further that the prohibition of the private ownership of firearms was the only ultimate solution to controlling crime. I was shocked and appalled to hear her, an elected public official sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution, espouse and advocate a position that would effectively repeal the guarantees of the Second Amendment."

Early in 1993, after Reno was nominated to be Attorney General, Diamond talked to Marion Hammer, then the National Rifle Association's Florida lobbyist, and NRA sent him affidavits to sign. Diamond says he rejected their first draft. Subsequently, Hammer's newsletter, Florida Firing Line, published an article on Reno in March 1993, including almost word for word the key passage from Diamond's affidavit about what Reno allegedly said, but the newsletter put the speech in 1991, not 1984. Diamond didn't sign the affidavit (with the correct year) until June 17, 1993, after Reno had already been confirmed.

Reno has been questioned about the "quote" and denies having said it, either in 1991 or 1984. A spokesman for the Justice Department, Bert Brandenburg, told the New York Times syndicate: "The assertion is untrue and the attorney general has never made such a statement" (Cleveland Plain Dealer, May 2, 1995). The Reno "quote" has appeared in print elsewhere, including National Review on May 29, 1995 as part of an article by Alan W. Bock about the militia movement; and was reprinted in a Guns and Ammo editorial by Ed Moats on concealed carry in October of 1996.

GunCite - Gun Control: Bogus gun control quotes

Saigon-
Associated Press is the source. Associated Press quoted Janet Reno. The linked article merely printed it and gave Associated Press the credit.

Many politicians and public officials deny having said things they said. Your strawman argument concerning a different quote has nothing to do with this discussion. We are talking about...

"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of firearms is the goal." - Janet Reno, December 10, 1993 [Associated Press]

 

[Saigon]

Asaratis -

I'd be very interested to see the quote from AP. A blog claiming AP quoted it does not tell us a lot.

This is not just a case of a politician claiming not to have said something - no one claimed she did say it until FIFTEEN YEARS later. Does that not strike you as being just a little odd?

 

[Flanders]

The original AP article appears to have vanished. No surprise there since it is the AP.

This link offers the Reno quote as a matter of public record along with some others:

Clinton Body Count

I found this quote most informative:

William J. Clinton, United States President, Today Show, Marh 2, 2000
- “Do I think guns should be registered? Of course I do, of course, I do.”

For as long as I can remember registration has been the government’s goal, but it almost never got any coverage every time Democrats pushed for “gun controls.” Happily, a few talking heads are broaching the topic of background checks in this go-around —— they do so with extreme caution. The rule is: Keep the need for background checks on criminals.

Incidentally, universal background checks as a way for the government to locate guns is relatively new. It evolved from registration as the only way around the Second Amendment. The importance Democrats place on knowing where the guns are located can be seen in the following:

Senate Democrats recently removed bans on semi-automatic weapons from pending gun-control legislation in apparent hopes of passing the more politically acceptable universal background checks -- even referring to the checks as the “sweet spot” of the proposal.

XXXXX​

New York Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer told NBC’s “Meet the Press,” he once called background checks the sweet spot “because it would do a whole lot of good and have a good chance of passing.”

“I’m working very hard with both Democrats and Republicans, pro-(National Rifle Association) and anti-NRA people, to come up with a background check that will be acceptable to 60 senators and be very strong and get the job done,” he said. “It’s very hard and we’re working hard and I’m very hopeful that we can get this passed.”

XXXXX​

. . . Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is expected to bring legislation to the floor next month that is likely to include the background check but no bans on semi-automatic weapons and high-capacity gun magazines.

With ban on semi-automatic weapons out, Congress now spars over universal background checks
Published March 31, 2013

With ban on semi-automatic weapons out, Congress now spars over universal background checks | Fox News

Note that Harry Reid no longer cares about semi-automatic weapons and high-capacity gun magazines, but he’ll go down with the ship before he gives up universal background checks.

One good thing is emerging from UBC. Slowly, the public is learning exactly what the government is really after. Gains in preventing government tyranny will multiply a hundredfold if UBC is defeated. In effect, the public will have learned where the government’s first priority lies, while Democrats got nothing from their latest attempt to abolish the Second Amendment.

 

[Saigon]

Flanders -

Just out of curiosity - I guess you oppose driver's licenses as well?

 

[Flanders]

Flanders -

Just out of curiosity - I guess you oppose driver's licenses as well?

To Saigon: I would if they took away a Right guaranteed in the Constitution.

In any event driving is a privilege. Owning an UNLICENSED gun is a Right.

 

[Saigon]

Flanders -

Well, yes, I accept that cars are not mentioned in the constitution and that guns are....but do you consider public safety to be an issue in itself?

In other words, do you consider the fact that guns endanger public safety when used poorly to be a valid basis for a licensing system?

 

[Flanders]

Flanders -

Well, yes, I accept that cars are not mentioned in the constitution and that guns are....but do you consider public safety to be an issue in itself?

In other words, do you consider the fact that guns endanger public safety when used poorly to be a valid basis for a licensing system?

To Saigon: Do you stay up nights thinking up clever questions? or do you have them on file? If you have a case to make do it. Should you say anything I have not heard a hundred times before now I’ll respond.

For your edification, I debated the driver's license misdirection many times years ago.

 

[Saigon]

Flanders -

Your dodging is duly noted. Again.

 

[Flanders]

You gotta feel good when a dirt bag like Biden makes fun of the truth:

During a gun control speech Tuesday at the White House, Vice President Biden mocked the “black helicopter crowd” for opposing the idea of universal background checks for Americans purchasing guns.

Note that Biden never mocked defenders of the Second Amendment for fighting the ban on assault rifles and ammo clips. Happily, he couldn’t keep his mouth shut about UBC. Thank you Joe. Unless you are claiming that law-abiding gun owners oppose UBC because they want to protect criminals your fear shows that it is not about criminals —— it is, and always will be, about the quotes I posted in the OP.

Of course, Biden can prove the “black helicopter crowd” wrong by saying: “Turn in your guns because we don’t want to turn this country into another Socialist paradise. We don’t want to take away your constitutional Rights. We don’t want to give your country to global government.”

Speaking of global government, Democrats are counting on foreign troops to bail them out when their game goes south. UN peacekeeping troops might not be so quick to answer the call if they know they will be facing tens of millions of gun-owners.

This next excerpt shows that Biden has not lost his touch for sneaky business:

Biden insisted that there would be no central registry for background checks allowing government to keep records on gun owners.

Biden mocks gun skeptics: ‘We’re going to swoop down with Special Forces folks and gather up every gun in America’
April 9, 2013 | 3:05 pm
Charlie Spiering

Biden mocks gun skeptics: ?We?re going to swoop down with Special Forces folks and gather up every gun in America? | WashingtonExaminer.com

How about central registries in 50 states? That would make gun control a state issue, and effectively neuter the Second Amendment. Even if Hussein & Company promise it won’t happen, who would believe that pack of liars.

Finally, the parasite class’ guns are the only guns Biden won’t confiscate:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UHmecy94z-M]Obama calls for civilian paramilitary force - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[Flanders]

I wonder if Hussein & Biden know anything about the Constitution or their oath of office:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSB6b6LulVg&feature=player_embedded]Mike Lee: Universal Background Checks Could Lead to National Gun Registry - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[Flanders]

Ann Coulter does more than question UBC. She demolishes them:

Ann Coulter: Gun Control Will "Lead To More Dead Kids" | RealClearPolitics​