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I'm with you on the right to speech and i'm with you about it not being ok for ANTIFA or anybody else to bring violence... But even with agreement on that the way Trump handled it was sloppy and divisive. I can't make excuses for what he said. It was an embarrassment and 100% fueled by ego. He needs to do much better but unfortunately I don't think he realizes that or cares at all.They both did vile things, don't fool yourself... Remember a girl died??The white whatevers were there to walk around and say vile things. The Antifa were there to Do vile things
It's no more complicated than that
Exactly. They both did vile things. Just like Donald Trump said.
Thats why each one should be evaluated and decided by the community whether it stands for the things they want represented. History, motive, content are all relevant for discussion. But if the city decides to take them down then why would you object to it. don't they have that right?Really?? You don't think that Jim Crow had anything to do with it?I disagree, that might be the short term play that they will attempt to capitalize on but in the long term it is removing a source of power and supremacy that exists. Many of those statues were constructed during the Jim Crow era as a check to the blacks that the values of the confederacy still exist. Like I said in the OP whether you take them down or minimize them with "counter" statues of civil rights leaders, I think either is a smart move to combat the hate.
The only power being provided is to the white power idiots, giving them a cause and a platform. Most of these were built in the early 1900's, well after the South "won" via plessey. What most of them are related to is the dying off of the Civil War Veterans, most of whom would have been in their 60's-80's between 1900 and 1920, when a lot of these monuments went up. Even the ones that went up in the 60's can be related to the 100th anniversaries of the start and the end of the Civil War
Why not just put up more memorials to Civil Rights leaders and let people see them all? .
It probably had some part to do with it. If you go to the battle of Liberty Square memorial THAT one had everything to do with it. But how much are memorials to the rank and file rebel Soldiers have to do with Jim Crow vs; remembering them as they were dying off of old age?
The big Arch in Grand Army Plaza was finished in 1892, a bit earlier but around the same time period.
Soldiers' and Sailors' Arch - Wikipedia
The current spate of statues coming down isn't because of a large majority wanting them down, but because politicians are listening to a small very vocal minority.
If you want to go with "the people want them down" set up a referendum on the damn things.
And all Trump had to do was take a stance against the Nazi's and White Supremacists that was half as tough and angry as he is against the media and his opponents. Had he done that there would have been either unity or worst case the press would have backed off as you know they love going after Trump. If you are going to blame the leftist press then you also have to recognize the part that POTUS plays in this.IVe seen a lot people stretch to blame the LEFT on anything and everything that's wrong with this country, this is a good one to add to the ridiculous list. White supremacists are not empowered by the Left overusing the racist card. A GOOD hearted conservative isn't going to go be a skinhead if a progressive dupe calls them a racist, that's just stupid. They are empowered when the president runs on nationalistic and anti-immigrant policies and when he appears to make excuses for them by giving half assed condemnations after they KILLED a girl, and proceeding to put his obvious anger and focus on the "other side" the left and the media.States were allowed to erect these statues and hang the confederate flag and even institute Jim Crow laws because States Rights was still a concept that was respected within reason following the Civil War. Those laws were eventually overturned but it took decades until the 1960's and a civil rights movement. The Flag was ultimately taken down in 2015 and now some of the statues are being targeted that represent divisive values and symbolism. There is a process being taken to decide what happens with these items and many of the states are going through that process. Many feel that it is long overdue and to be honest having a President who is questionable at best about his support of race issues, at a time when hate groups feel empowered and are speaking up and holding rallies, well these conditions are likely pushing an agenda where civil rights activists want to take action that show a proactive stand against the hate groups.See this is where you lose me with the false comparisons. You bring up WW2 and call it genocide against one group and compare it to the Civil War that you describe as "people fighting for what they thought was their own country". You leave out the fact that they were fighting for the right to own people against their president and governments directives. Slavery is not as bad as genocide but it is still disgustingly bad, there were plenty of rapes and murders and abuses going on. It was a shameful element of our society and the the civil war was centered around it. These statues and confederate symbols represent those detestable values to many people. Just as Nazi symbols represented a disgraceful agenda and history that did not deserve to be celebrated through public monuments. Do you not understand that?
Actually they were fighting due to the chance of Slavery maybe being curtailed in the territories, and eventual, probably compensated emancipation. The South feared Lincoln like progressives fear Trump.
You also have to remember that Citizenship in a State was far more of an identifier then that it is now. People were often Citizens of the States first, and their Country second. To them, they were just exercising the same method of gaining independence that the Colonists did against the Crown. Now to me, you need the consent of the rest of the country before you can go, and that means war if they don't. Which is what happened.
Slavery was also waning at the time, but was still not universally condemned. Killing a whole people off "because they are an enemy" was recognized as an evil thing pretty much universally by the rest of the world when the Germans were doing it.
The difference still is Nazi symbology was removed at the time the other side won and imposed its rules. We have allowed the South to memorialize its lost cause and dead citizens for over a decade, now all of a sudden all that is evil evil evil. I'm sorry but I refuse to bend the knee to the chronically offended who if they win will just move on to the next idiotic request to assuage their own butt hurt.
States were allowed to enact Jim Crow laws due to Plessey, one of my favorite examples of terrible judicial overreach, same as Roe and Obergfell. States rights is actually a concept we NEED to respect, as long as they follow the federal constitution strictly interpreted.
Hate groups feel empowered to speak up because leftist idiots have lumped them together with everyone to the right of Mitt Romney. They see a fertile recruiting ground of people being told they are "racist" just because of their conservative or libertarian viewpoints. I think the White Power nuts are delusional about this, but they may see increased recruiting from some fence sitters. The worst part is the press is enabling them, just like they enabled Trump to win the Republican Nomination.
You take on Hate Groups by ignoring them. You let history be history by not digging it up when the wind blows a certain way.
I am blaming this one Specific wrong on the leftist press. I am not generalizing the left. And I am not talking about "good hearted conservatives", I am talking about the masses of apolitical working types that are seeing everything they believe in attacked, and some slick white power idiots offering them a reason for it.
One can have nationalism in the United States without race being a factor. One can be anti-illegal immigration without being against immigrants in general. Now YOU are the one generalizing and simplifying.
One idiot killed a girl, it wasn't the intent of the people running the rally for it to happen.
And all Trump had to do was take a stance against the Nazi's and White Supremacists that was half as tough and angry as he is against the media and his opponents. Had he done that there would have been either unity or worst case the press would have backed off as you know they love going after Trump. If you are going to blame the leftist press then you also have to recognize the part that POTUS plays in this.IVe seen a lot people stretch to blame the LEFT on anything and everything that's wrong with this country, this is a good one to add to the ridiculous list. White supremacists are not empowered by the Left overusing the racist card. A GOOD hearted conservative isn't going to go be a skinhead if a progressive dupe calls them a racist, that's just stupid. They are empowered when the president runs on nationalistic and anti-immigrant policies and when he appears to make excuses for them by giving half assed condemnations after they KILLED a girl, and proceeding to put his obvious anger and focus on the "other side" the left and the media.States were allowed to erect these statues and hang the confederate flag and even institute Jim Crow laws because States Rights was still a concept that was respected within reason following the Civil War. Those laws were eventually overturned but it took decades until the 1960's and a civil rights movement. The Flag was ultimately taken down in 2015 and now some of the statues are being targeted that represent divisive values and symbolism. There is a process being taken to decide what happens with these items and many of the states are going through that process. Many feel that it is long overdue and to be honest having a President who is questionable at best about his support of race issues, at a time when hate groups feel empowered and are speaking up and holding rallies, well these conditions are likely pushing an agenda where civil rights activists want to take action that show a proactive stand against the hate groups.Actually they were fighting due to the chance of Slavery maybe being curtailed in the territories, and eventual, probably compensated emancipation. The South feared Lincoln like progressives fear Trump.
You also have to remember that Citizenship in a State was far more of an identifier then that it is now. People were often Citizens of the States first, and their Country second. To them, they were just exercising the same method of gaining independence that the Colonists did against the Crown. Now to me, you need the consent of the rest of the country before you can go, and that means war if they don't. Which is what happened.
Slavery was also waning at the time, but was still not universally condemned. Killing a whole people off "because they are an enemy" was recognized as an evil thing pretty much universally by the rest of the world when the Germans were doing it.
The difference still is Nazi symbology was removed at the time the other side won and imposed its rules. We have allowed the South to memorialize its lost cause and dead citizens for over a decade, now all of a sudden all that is evil evil evil. I'm sorry but I refuse to bend the knee to the chronically offended who if they win will just move on to the next idiotic request to assuage their own butt hurt.
States were allowed to enact Jim Crow laws due to Plessey, one of my favorite examples of terrible judicial overreach, same as Roe and Obergfell. States rights is actually a concept we NEED to respect, as long as they follow the federal constitution strictly interpreted.
Hate groups feel empowered to speak up because leftist idiots have lumped them together with everyone to the right of Mitt Romney. They see a fertile recruiting ground of people being told they are "racist" just because of their conservative or libertarian viewpoints. I think the White Power nuts are delusional about this, but they may see increased recruiting from some fence sitters. The worst part is the press is enabling them, just like they enabled Trump to win the Republican Nomination.
You take on Hate Groups by ignoring them. You let history be history by not digging it up when the wind blows a certain way.
I am blaming this one Specific wrong on the leftist press. I am not generalizing the left. And I am not talking about "good hearted conservatives", I am talking about the masses of apolitical working types that are seeing everything they believe in attacked, and some slick white power idiots offering them a reason for it.
One can have nationalism in the United States without race being a factor. One can be anti-illegal immigration without being against immigrants in general. Now YOU are the one generalizing and simplifying.
One idiot killed a girl, it wasn't the intent of the people running the rally for it to happen.
Well thats rather presumptive of you. He gets a lot of shit from the press because he says a ton of false and idiotic things that provoke as he tries and manipulate the messaging... that warrants critique from the press. I think the focus on it is way overblown but if Trump didn't give them the spark then they wouldn't start the fire. I don't think he knows how to act in a way that doesn't cause sparks.And all Trump had to do was take a stance against the Nazi's and White Supremacists that was half as tough and angry as he is against the media and his opponents. Had he done that there would have been either unity or worst case the press would have backed off as you know they love going after Trump. If you are going to blame the leftist press then you also have to recognize the part that POTUS plays in this.IVe seen a lot people stretch to blame the LEFT on anything and everything that's wrong with this country, this is a good one to add to the ridiculous list. White supremacists are not empowered by the Left overusing the racist card. A GOOD hearted conservative isn't going to go be a skinhead if a progressive dupe calls them a racist, that's just stupid. They are empowered when the president runs on nationalistic and anti-immigrant policies and when he appears to make excuses for them by giving half assed condemnations after they KILLED a girl, and proceeding to put his obvious anger and focus on the "other side" the left and the media.States were allowed to erect these statues and hang the confederate flag and even institute Jim Crow laws because States Rights was still a concept that was respected within reason following the Civil War. Those laws were eventually overturned but it took decades until the 1960's and a civil rights movement. The Flag was ultimately taken down in 2015 and now some of the statues are being targeted that represent divisive values and symbolism. There is a process being taken to decide what happens with these items and many of the states are going through that process. Many feel that it is long overdue and to be honest having a President who is questionable at best about his support of race issues, at a time when hate groups feel empowered and are speaking up and holding rallies, well these conditions are likely pushing an agenda where civil rights activists want to take action that show a proactive stand against the hate groups.
States were allowed to enact Jim Crow laws due to Plessey, one of my favorite examples of terrible judicial overreach, same as Roe and Obergfell. States rights is actually a concept we NEED to respect, as long as they follow the federal constitution strictly interpreted.
Hate groups feel empowered to speak up because leftist idiots have lumped them together with everyone to the right of Mitt Romney. They see a fertile recruiting ground of people being told they are "racist" just because of their conservative or libertarian viewpoints. I think the White Power nuts are delusional about this, but they may see increased recruiting from some fence sitters. The worst part is the press is enabling them, just like they enabled Trump to win the Republican Nomination.
You take on Hate Groups by ignoring them. You let history be history by not digging it up when the wind blows a certain way.
I am blaming this one Specific wrong on the leftist press. I am not generalizing the left. And I am not talking about "good hearted conservatives", I am talking about the masses of apolitical working types that are seeing everything they believe in attacked, and some slick white power idiots offering them a reason for it.
One can have nationalism in the United States without race being a factor. One can be anti-illegal immigration without being against immigrants in general. Now YOU are the one generalizing and simplifying.
One idiot killed a girl, it wasn't the intent of the people running the rally for it to happen.
Wrong. No matter what Trump had said the Media would have found something wrong with it. There is nothing the guy can do right. Honestly I don't even consider any criticism they spew out as valid, because they have been crying wolf since January.
He did say he doesn't like white power types, and then the media went all too late, not enough, blah blah blah blah blah...
Well thats rather presumptive of you. He gets a lot of shit from the press because he says a ton of false and idiotic things that provoke as he tries and manipulate the messaging... that warrants critique from the press. I think the focus on it is way overblown but if Trump didn't give them the spark then they wouldn't start the fire. I don't think he knows how to act in a way that doesn't cause sparks.And all Trump had to do was take a stance against the Nazi's and White Supremacists that was half as tough and angry as he is against the media and his opponents. Had he done that there would have been either unity or worst case the press would have backed off as you know they love going after Trump. If you are going to blame the leftist press then you also have to recognize the part that POTUS plays in this.IVe seen a lot people stretch to blame the LEFT on anything and everything that's wrong with this country, this is a good one to add to the ridiculous list. White supremacists are not empowered by the Left overusing the racist card. A GOOD hearted conservative isn't going to go be a skinhead if a progressive dupe calls them a racist, that's just stupid. They are empowered when the president runs on nationalistic and anti-immigrant policies and when he appears to make excuses for them by giving half assed condemnations after they KILLED a girl, and proceeding to put his obvious anger and focus on the "other side" the left and the media.States were allowed to enact Jim Crow laws due to Plessey, one of my favorite examples of terrible judicial overreach, same as Roe and Obergfell. States rights is actually a concept we NEED to respect, as long as they follow the federal constitution strictly interpreted.
Hate groups feel empowered to speak up because leftist idiots have lumped them together with everyone to the right of Mitt Romney. They see a fertile recruiting ground of people being told they are "racist" just because of their conservative or libertarian viewpoints. I think the White Power nuts are delusional about this, but they may see increased recruiting from some fence sitters. The worst part is the press is enabling them, just like they enabled Trump to win the Republican Nomination.
You take on Hate Groups by ignoring them. You let history be history by not digging it up when the wind blows a certain way.
I am blaming this one Specific wrong on the leftist press. I am not generalizing the left. And I am not talking about "good hearted conservatives", I am talking about the masses of apolitical working types that are seeing everything they believe in attacked, and some slick white power idiots offering them a reason for it.
One can have nationalism in the United States without race being a factor. One can be anti-illegal immigration without being against immigrants in general. Now YOU are the one generalizing and simplifying.
One idiot killed a girl, it wasn't the intent of the people running the rally for it to happen.
Wrong. No matter what Trump had said the Media would have found something wrong with it. There is nothing the guy can do right. Honestly I don't even consider any criticism they spew out as valid, because they have been crying wolf since January.
He did say he doesn't like white power types, and then the media went all too late, not enough, blah blah blah blah blah...
Really think about it. If he came out and laid into the KKK and Nazi's in the same way he does with the media and his opponents, do you really think the media would have anything critical to say about that?? Even if they tried they would look foolish.
Wheres the name calling, why aren't they the "Little KKK" or the "Nitwit Nazi's"? Where are the degrading tweets and consistent attacks putting a big boot of morality up their ass? He definitely has the ability to do that but he didn't. He chose to try and share the blame with the left groups, which i don't think should be ignored, but should have been brought up in a different way. Then he moved on to insult the media and his opponents again.
I'm so sick of hearing the Keep your plan BS... Save that for the dupes please, that proves no point. Obama was constantly attacked by FOX and conservative talk radio and that entire wing of the media. The liberal media did like him and was friendly, but they were also critical. I'm not arguing that Obama didn't have a friendlier media... But Obama knew how to put fires out and talk with dignity and respect. Trump lights everything on fire and picks fights. You can't solely blame the media for engaging in fights with Trump that Trump constantly provokes. Trump has drawn the line and throws two rocks back for every one that the media throws. You can't be allies when both sides are throwing rocks at each other.Well thats rather presumptive of you. He gets a lot of shit from the press because he says a ton of false and idiotic things that provoke as he tries and manipulate the messaging... that warrants critique from the press. I think the focus on it is way overblown but if Trump didn't give them the spark then they wouldn't start the fire. I don't think he knows how to act in a way that doesn't cause sparks.And all Trump had to do was take a stance against the Nazi's and White Supremacists that was half as tough and angry as he is against the media and his opponents. Had he done that there would have been either unity or worst case the press would have backed off as you know they love going after Trump. If you are going to blame the leftist press then you also have to recognize the part that POTUS plays in this.IVe seen a lot people stretch to blame the LEFT on anything and everything that's wrong with this country, this is a good one to add to the ridiculous list. White supremacists are not empowered by the Left overusing the racist card. A GOOD hearted conservative isn't going to go be a skinhead if a progressive dupe calls them a racist, that's just stupid. They are empowered when the president runs on nationalistic and anti-immigrant policies and when he appears to make excuses for them by giving half assed condemnations after they KILLED a girl, and proceeding to put his obvious anger and focus on the "other side" the left and the media.
I am blaming this one Specific wrong on the leftist press. I am not generalizing the left. And I am not talking about "good hearted conservatives", I am talking about the masses of apolitical working types that are seeing everything they believe in attacked, and some slick white power idiots offering them a reason for it.
One can have nationalism in the United States without race being a factor. One can be anti-illegal immigration without being against immigrants in general. Now YOU are the one generalizing and simplifying.
One idiot killed a girl, it wasn't the intent of the people running the rally for it to happen.
Wrong. No matter what Trump had said the Media would have found something wrong with it. There is nothing the guy can do right. Honestly I don't even consider any criticism they spew out as valid, because they have been crying wolf since January.
He did say he doesn't like white power types, and then the media went all too late, not enough, blah blah blah blah blah...
Really think about it. If he came out and laid into the KKK and Nazi's in the same way he does with the media and his opponents, do you really think the media would have anything critical to say about that?? Even if they tried they would look foolish.
Wheres the name calling, why aren't they the "Little KKK" or the "Nitwit Nazi's"? Where are the degrading tweets and consistent attacks putting a big boot of morality up their ass? He definitely has the ability to do that but he didn't. He chose to try and share the blame with the left groups, which i don't think should be ignored, but should have been brought up in a different way. Then he moved on to insult the media and his opponents again.
What we are seeing is not critique, it is outright hatred of the man. The press was an Obama lapdog for 8 years and now all of a sudden they have re-found their calling?
Trump exaggerates, he bloviates, but we all know that already. Unlike "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period" his yammering has no impact on my life. Other than drive lefties nuts which vastly improves my life, or at least my attitude.
I'm so sick of hearing the Keep your plan BS... Save that for the dupes please, that proves no point. Obama was constantly attacked by FOX and conservative talk radio and that entire wing of the media. The liberal media did like him and was friendly, but they were also critical. I'm not arguing that Obama didn't have a friendlier media... But Obama knew how to put fires out and talk with dignity and respect. Trump lights everything on fire and picks fights. You can't solely blame the media for engaging in fights with Trump that Trump constantly provokes. Trump has drawn the line and throws two rocks back for every one that the media throws. You can't be allies when both sides are throwing rocks at each other.Well thats rather presumptive of you. He gets a lot of shit from the press because he says a ton of false and idiotic things that provoke as he tries and manipulate the messaging... that warrants critique from the press. I think the focus on it is way overblown but if Trump didn't give them the spark then they wouldn't start the fire. I don't think he knows how to act in a way that doesn't cause sparks.And all Trump had to do was take a stance against the Nazi's and White Supremacists that was half as tough and angry as he is against the media and his opponents. Had he done that there would have been either unity or worst case the press would have backed off as you know they love going after Trump. If you are going to blame the leftist press then you also have to recognize the part that POTUS plays in this.I am blaming this one Specific wrong on the leftist press. I am not generalizing the left. And I am not talking about "good hearted conservatives", I am talking about the masses of apolitical working types that are seeing everything they believe in attacked, and some slick white power idiots offering them a reason for it.
One can have nationalism in the United States without race being a factor. One can be anti-illegal immigration without being against immigrants in general. Now YOU are the one generalizing and simplifying.
One idiot killed a girl, it wasn't the intent of the people running the rally for it to happen.
Wrong. No matter what Trump had said the Media would have found something wrong with it. There is nothing the guy can do right. Honestly I don't even consider any criticism they spew out as valid, because they have been crying wolf since January.
He did say he doesn't like white power types, and then the media went all too late, not enough, blah blah blah blah blah...
Really think about it. If he came out and laid into the KKK and Nazi's in the same way he does with the media and his opponents, do you really think the media would have anything critical to say about that?? Even if they tried they would look foolish.
Wheres the name calling, why aren't they the "Little KKK" or the "Nitwit Nazi's"? Where are the degrading tweets and consistent attacks putting a big boot of morality up their ass? He definitely has the ability to do that but he didn't. He chose to try and share the blame with the left groups, which i don't think should be ignored, but should have been brought up in a different way. Then he moved on to insult the media and his opponents again.
What we are seeing is not critique, it is outright hatred of the man. The press was an Obama lapdog for 8 years and now all of a sudden they have re-found their calling?
Trump exaggerates, he bloviates, but we all know that already. Unlike "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period" his yammering has no impact on my life. Other than drive lefties nuts which vastly improves my life, or at least my attitude.
It is all part of Trumps game, he has made the media into the enemy. His supporters respond to negative press now by ignoring it and calling it fake news without even listening with an open mind anymore. This all works in Trumps favor. Do you really not see whats going on? Are you that much of a puppet?
Not exactly, immigration has a tremendous effect on our economy and can bring both high skilled and low skilled labor to this country. And then of course their is the identity of what America is for many... land of opportunity and home for the oppressed. There is an engraving in San Francisco at Immigrant point, over looking the GG bridge in the Presidio quoting Woodrow Wilson that says it very well,When the country was founded it needed people to populate it, any people and all people
The country has been "founded" for a while and can Rightfully select who it wishes to admit . This does not fit the liberals feelings based grievance industry so they knee jerk to racism while, once again, failing to realize the fact that it's not 50-150 years ago right now
Perhaps you should put some of that anger and blame onto the insurance company that took away your plan and doctor as the executives continued to eat caviar on their yachts.I'm so sick of hearing the Keep your plan BS... Save that for the dupes please, that proves no point. Obama was constantly attacked by FOX and conservative talk radio and that entire wing of the media. The liberal media did like him and was friendly, but they were also critical. I'm not arguing that Obama didn't have a friendlier media... But Obama knew how to put fires out and talk with dignity and respect. Trump lights everything on fire and picks fights. You can't solely blame the media for engaging in fights with Trump that Trump constantly provokes. Trump has drawn the line and throws two rocks back for every one that the media throws. You can't be allies when both sides are throwing rocks at each other.Well thats rather presumptive of you. He gets a lot of shit from the press because he says a ton of false and idiotic things that provoke as he tries and manipulate the messaging... that warrants critique from the press. I think the focus on it is way overblown but if Trump didn't give them the spark then they wouldn't start the fire. I don't think he knows how to act in a way that doesn't cause sparks.And all Trump had to do was take a stance against the Nazi's and White Supremacists that was half as tough and angry as he is against the media and his opponents. Had he done that there would have been either unity or worst case the press would have backed off as you know they love going after Trump. If you are going to blame the leftist press then you also have to recognize the part that POTUS plays in this.
Wrong. No matter what Trump had said the Media would have found something wrong with it. There is nothing the guy can do right. Honestly I don't even consider any criticism they spew out as valid, because they have been crying wolf since January.
He did say he doesn't like white power types, and then the media went all too late, not enough, blah blah blah blah blah...
Really think about it. If he came out and laid into the KKK and Nazi's in the same way he does with the media and his opponents, do you really think the media would have anything critical to say about that?? Even if they tried they would look foolish.
Wheres the name calling, why aren't they the "Little KKK" or the "Nitwit Nazi's"? Where are the degrading tweets and consistent attacks putting a big boot of morality up their ass? He definitely has the ability to do that but he didn't. He chose to try and share the blame with the left groups, which i don't think should be ignored, but should have been brought up in a different way. Then he moved on to insult the media and his opponents again.
What we are seeing is not critique, it is outright hatred of the man. The press was an Obama lapdog for 8 years and now all of a sudden they have re-found their calling?
Trump exaggerates, he bloviates, but we all know that already. Unlike "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period" his yammering has no impact on my life. Other than drive lefties nuts which vastly improves my life, or at least my attitude.
It is all part of Trumps game, he has made the media into the enemy. His supporters respond to negative press now by ignoring it and calling it fake news without even listening with an open mind anymore. This all works in Trumps favor. Do you really not see whats going on? Are you that much of a puppet?
That lie actually impacted me, so if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore it to fit your narrative be my guest.
I would rather have an asshole try to do things I like having done than a smooth talking huckster do things I despise.
And GOOD ON TRUMP for throwing back more rocks. Being nice has never helped conservatives/libertarians in the past, maybe it's time the gloves come off.
The press made themselves they enemy of anyone to the right of Mitt Romney, Trump just called them out on it.
I could take the time to show you video examples of critical reports about many many many of Obamas actions from ALL outlets, but I'm not going to waste my time. Don't think there is anything getting through to people like you.The media totally showered Obama with praise during his every misstep
The apology tour, Michelle finally being proud, the cops being stupid with the professor, Trayvon could have been his, on and on with divisive dumb shit
Perhaps you should put some of that anger and blame onto the insurance company that took away your plan and doctor as the executives continued to eat caviar on their yachts.I'm so sick of hearing the Keep your plan BS... Save that for the dupes please, that proves no point. Obama was constantly attacked by FOX and conservative talk radio and that entire wing of the media. The liberal media did like him and was friendly, but they were also critical. I'm not arguing that Obama didn't have a friendlier media... But Obama knew how to put fires out and talk with dignity and respect. Trump lights everything on fire and picks fights. You can't solely blame the media for engaging in fights with Trump that Trump constantly provokes. Trump has drawn the line and throws two rocks back for every one that the media throws. You can't be allies when both sides are throwing rocks at each other.Well thats rather presumptive of you. He gets a lot of shit from the press because he says a ton of false and idiotic things that provoke as he tries and manipulate the messaging... that warrants critique from the press. I think the focus on it is way overblown but if Trump didn't give them the spark then they wouldn't start the fire. I don't think he knows how to act in a way that doesn't cause sparks.Wrong. No matter what Trump had said the Media would have found something wrong with it. There is nothing the guy can do right. Honestly I don't even consider any criticism they spew out as valid, because they have been crying wolf since January.
He did say he doesn't like white power types, and then the media went all too late, not enough, blah blah blah blah blah...
Really think about it. If he came out and laid into the KKK and Nazi's in the same way he does with the media and his opponents, do you really think the media would have anything critical to say about that?? Even if they tried they would look foolish.
Wheres the name calling, why aren't they the "Little KKK" or the "Nitwit Nazi's"? Where are the degrading tweets and consistent attacks putting a big boot of morality up their ass? He definitely has the ability to do that but he didn't. He chose to try and share the blame with the left groups, which i don't think should be ignored, but should have been brought up in a different way. Then he moved on to insult the media and his opponents again.
What we are seeing is not critique, it is outright hatred of the man. The press was an Obama lapdog for 8 years and now all of a sudden they have re-found their calling?
Trump exaggerates, he bloviates, but we all know that already. Unlike "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period" his yammering has no impact on my life. Other than drive lefties nuts which vastly improves my life, or at least my attitude.
It is all part of Trumps game, he has made the media into the enemy. His supporters respond to negative press now by ignoring it and calling it fake news without even listening with an open mind anymore. This all works in Trumps favor. Do you really not see whats going on? Are you that much of a puppet?
That lie actually impacted me, so if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore it to fit your narrative be my guest.
I would rather have an asshole try to do things I like having done than a smooth talking huckster do things I despise.
And GOOD ON TRUMP for throwing back more rocks. Being nice has never helped conservatives/libertarians in the past, maybe it's time the gloves come off.
The press made themselves they enemy of anyone to the right of Mitt Romney, Trump just called them out on it.
You can support Trumps rock throwing but then you can't constantly blame the media for their attacks and believe Trump to be a victim. He provokes it and feeds an anti-media environment so he can call fake news when he gets negative press... this works towards his advantage. He is playing you
Not class warefare, more of a don't make excuses for the highly successful insurance companies that were the ones that dictate what happens with your insurance. Yes Obamacare upped the regulations in an attempt to up the standards and number of people covered. The law is not free from blame for you losing your plan... but blaming it all on Obama lying is a cheap and dishonest statement.Perhaps you should put some of that anger and blame onto the insurance company that took away your plan and doctor as the executives continued to eat caviar on their yachts.I'm so sick of hearing the Keep your plan BS... Save that for the dupes please, that proves no point. Obama was constantly attacked by FOX and conservative talk radio and that entire wing of the media. The liberal media did like him and was friendly, but they were also critical. I'm not arguing that Obama didn't have a friendlier media... But Obama knew how to put fires out and talk with dignity and respect. Trump lights everything on fire and picks fights. You can't solely blame the media for engaging in fights with Trump that Trump constantly provokes. Trump has drawn the line and throws two rocks back for every one that the media throws. You can't be allies when both sides are throwing rocks at each other.Well thats rather presumptive of you. He gets a lot of shit from the press because he says a ton of false and idiotic things that provoke as he tries and manipulate the messaging... that warrants critique from the press. I think the focus on it is way overblown but if Trump didn't give them the spark then they wouldn't start the fire. I don't think he knows how to act in a way that doesn't cause sparks.
Really think about it. If he came out and laid into the KKK and Nazi's in the same way he does with the media and his opponents, do you really think the media would have anything critical to say about that?? Even if they tried they would look foolish.
Wheres the name calling, why aren't they the "Little KKK" or the "Nitwit Nazi's"? Where are the degrading tweets and consistent attacks putting a big boot of morality up their ass? He definitely has the ability to do that but he didn't. He chose to try and share the blame with the left groups, which i don't think should be ignored, but should have been brought up in a different way. Then he moved on to insult the media and his opponents again.
What we are seeing is not critique, it is outright hatred of the man. The press was an Obama lapdog for 8 years and now all of a sudden they have re-found their calling?
Trump exaggerates, he bloviates, but we all know that already. Unlike "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period" his yammering has no impact on my life. Other than drive lefties nuts which vastly improves my life, or at least my attitude.
It is all part of Trumps game, he has made the media into the enemy. His supporters respond to negative press now by ignoring it and calling it fake news without even listening with an open mind anymore. This all works in Trumps favor. Do you really not see whats going on? Are you that much of a puppet?
That lie actually impacted me, so if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore it to fit your narrative be my guest.
I would rather have an asshole try to do things I like having done than a smooth talking huckster do things I despise.
And GOOD ON TRUMP for throwing back more rocks. Being nice has never helped conservatives/libertarians in the past, maybe it's time the gloves come off.
The press made themselves they enemy of anyone to the right of Mitt Romney, Trump just called them out on it.
You can support Trumps rock throwing but then you can't constantly blame the media for their attacks and believe Trump to be a victim. He provokes it and feeds an anti-media environment so he can call fake news when he gets negative press... this works towards his advantage. He is playing you
Ah the old class war bullshit. Figures you would go with that commie crap.
They had to change then plans because of the law, no law, and my plan would have been just fine.
He is more playing them. I know what I got in Trump, and right now we may need somewhat of a "burn it down" moment.
Not class warefare, more of a don't make excuses for the highly successful insurance companies that were the ones that dictate what happens with your insurance. Yes Obamacare upped the regulations in an attempt to up the standards and number of people covered. The law is not free from blame for you losing your plan... but blaming it all on Obama lying is a cheap and dishonest statement.Perhaps you should put some of that anger and blame onto the insurance company that took away your plan and doctor as the executives continued to eat caviar on their yachts.I'm so sick of hearing the Keep your plan BS... Save that for the dupes please, that proves no point. Obama was constantly attacked by FOX and conservative talk radio and that entire wing of the media. The liberal media did like him and was friendly, but they were also critical. I'm not arguing that Obama didn't have a friendlier media... But Obama knew how to put fires out and talk with dignity and respect. Trump lights everything on fire and picks fights. You can't solely blame the media for engaging in fights with Trump that Trump constantly provokes. Trump has drawn the line and throws two rocks back for every one that the media throws. You can't be allies when both sides are throwing rocks at each other.What we are seeing is not critique, it is outright hatred of the man. The press was an Obama lapdog for 8 years and now all of a sudden they have re-found their calling?
Trump exaggerates, he bloviates, but we all know that already. Unlike "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period" his yammering has no impact on my life. Other than drive lefties nuts which vastly improves my life, or at least my attitude.
It is all part of Trumps game, he has made the media into the enemy. His supporters respond to negative press now by ignoring it and calling it fake news without even listening with an open mind anymore. This all works in Trumps favor. Do you really not see whats going on? Are you that much of a puppet?
That lie actually impacted me, so if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore it to fit your narrative be my guest.
I would rather have an asshole try to do things I like having done than a smooth talking huckster do things I despise.
And GOOD ON TRUMP for throwing back more rocks. Being nice has never helped conservatives/libertarians in the past, maybe it's time the gloves come off.
The press made themselves they enemy of anyone to the right of Mitt Romney, Trump just called them out on it.
You can support Trumps rock throwing but then you can't constantly blame the media for their attacks and believe Trump to be a victim. He provokes it and feeds an anti-media environment so he can call fake news when he gets negative press... this works towards his advantage. He is playing you
Ah the old class war bullshit. Figures you would go with that commie crap.
They had to change then plans because of the law, no law, and my plan would have been just fine.
He is more playing them. I know what I got in Trump, and right now we may need somewhat of a "burn it down" moment.
About your burn it down moment, I'm actually not totally against that, there is a ton of bloat and corruption in our government. I just don't think Trumpnis any different. He just has a different style that is much more offensive. He still lies and is still shady as shit
i guess you don't remember the clusterfuck that insurance was for decades in the past. The many people that were being taken advantage of by insurance companies, dropped from coverage, not covered when they got their bills, the many millions that were uninsured that would go bankrupt after an accident and those who could not get coverage because of their medical conditions. I guess you thought that was all fine and dandy... I'm sorry you were inconvenienced by the effort to make things better. Keep bitching about it and blaming obama for lying. That's probably going to help thingsNot class warefare, more of a don't make excuses for the highly successful insurance companies that were the ones that dictate what happens with your insurance. Yes Obamacare upped the regulations in an attempt to up the standards and number of people covered. The law is not free from blame for you losing your plan... but blaming it all on Obama lying is a cheap and dishonest statement.Perhaps you should put some of that anger and blame onto the insurance company that took away your plan and doctor as the executives continued to eat caviar on their yachts.I'm so sick of hearing the Keep your plan BS... Save that for the dupes please, that proves no point. Obama was constantly attacked by FOX and conservative talk radio and that entire wing of the media. The liberal media did like him and was friendly, but they were also critical. I'm not arguing that Obama didn't have a friendlier media... But Obama knew how to put fires out and talk with dignity and respect. Trump lights everything on fire and picks fights. You can't solely blame the media for engaging in fights with Trump that Trump constantly provokes. Trump has drawn the line and throws two rocks back for every one that the media throws. You can't be allies when both sides are throwing rocks at each other.
It is all part of Trumps game, he has made the media into the enemy. His supporters respond to negative press now by ignoring it and calling it fake news without even listening with an open mind anymore. This all works in Trumps favor. Do you really not see whats going on? Are you that much of a puppet?
That lie actually impacted me, so if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore it to fit your narrative be my guest.
I would rather have an asshole try to do things I like having done than a smooth talking huckster do things I despise.
And GOOD ON TRUMP for throwing back more rocks. Being nice has never helped conservatives/libertarians in the past, maybe it's time the gloves come off.
The press made themselves they enemy of anyone to the right of Mitt Romney, Trump just called them out on it.
You can support Trumps rock throwing but then you can't constantly blame the media for their attacks and believe Trump to be a victim. He provokes it and feeds an anti-media environment so he can call fake news when he gets negative press... this works towards his advantage. He is playing you
Ah the old class war bullshit. Figures you would go with that commie crap.
They had to change then plans because of the law, no law, and my plan would have been just fine.
He is more playing them. I know what I got in Trump, and right now we may need somewhat of a "burn it down" moment.
About your burn it down moment, I'm actually not totally against that, there is a ton of bloat and corruption in our government. I just don't think Trumpnis any different. He just has a different style that is much more offensive. He still lies and is still shady as shit
If the law didn't pass, they would not have had to make changes. I blame the person pulling the trigger, not the gun or the bullet.
The only difference is he lies differently, and is a different form of shady.
i guess you don't remember the clusterfuck that insurance was for decades in the past. The many people that were being taken advantage of by insurance companies, dropped from coverage, not covered when they got their bills, the many millions that were uninsured that would go bankrupt after an accident and those who could get coverage because of their medical conditions. I guess you thought that was all fine and dandy... I'm sorry you were inconvenienced by the effort to make things better. Keep bitching about it and blaming obama for lying. That's probably going to help thingsNot class warefare, more of a don't make excuses for the highly successful insurance companies that were the ones that dictate what happens with your insurance. Yes Obamacare upped the regulations in an attempt to up the standards and number of people covered. The law is not free from blame for you losing your plan... but blaming it all on Obama lying is a cheap and dishonest statement.Perhaps you should put some of that anger and blame onto the insurance company that took away your plan and doctor as the executives continued to eat caviar on their yachts.That lie actually impacted me, so if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore it to fit your narrative be my guest.
I would rather have an asshole try to do things I like having done than a smooth talking huckster do things I despise.
And GOOD ON TRUMP for throwing back more rocks. Being nice has never helped conservatives/libertarians in the past, maybe it's time the gloves come off.
The press made themselves they enemy of anyone to the right of Mitt Romney, Trump just called them out on it.
You can support Trumps rock throwing but then you can't constantly blame the media for their attacks and believe Trump to be a victim. He provokes it and feeds an anti-media environment so he can call fake news when he gets negative press... this works towards his advantage. He is playing you
Ah the old class war bullshit. Figures you would go with that commie crap.
They had to change then plans because of the law, no law, and my plan would have been just fine.
He is more playing them. I know what I got in Trump, and right now we may need somewhat of a "burn it down" moment.
About your burn it down moment, I'm actually not totally against that, there is a ton of bloat and corruption in our government. I just don't think Trumpnis any different. He just has a different style that is much more offensive. He still lies and is still shady as shit
If the law didn't pass, they would not have had to make changes. I blame the person pulling the trigger, not the gun or the bullet.
The only difference is he lies differently, and is a different form of shady.
I'm not saying any of those things. I recognize that people got screwed by Obamacare, can you recognize that many people were also helped? I just want fair and honest discussion about it. I'm fine critiquing many aspects of the bill... But dismissing all the good that it did and simply saying that Obama lied, does nothing to progress the conversation. It had some good elements and had had some bad elements, if you can't admit that then you can't have an honest conversation. We should have been working on fixing the problems over the past 5 years, not wasting time posturing with the 'repeal and replace' bullshit.i guess you don't remember the clusterfuck that insurance was for decades in the past. The many people that were being taken advantage of by insurance companies, dropped from coverage, not covered when they got their bills, the many millions that were uninsured that would go bankrupt after an accident and those who could get coverage because of their medical conditions. I guess you thought that was all fine and dandy... I'm sorry you were inconvenienced by the effort to make things better. Keep bitching about it and blaming obama for lying. That's probably going to help thingsNot class warefare, more of a don't make excuses for the highly successful insurance companies that were the ones that dictate what happens with your insurance. Yes Obamacare upped the regulations in an attempt to up the standards and number of people covered. The law is not free from blame for you losing your plan... but blaming it all on Obama lying is a cheap and dishonest statement.Perhaps you should put some of that anger and blame onto the insurance company that took away your plan and doctor as the executives continued to eat caviar on their yachts.
You can support Trumps rock throwing but then you can't constantly blame the media for their attacks and believe Trump to be a victim. He provokes it and feeds an anti-media environment so he can call fake news when he gets negative press... this works towards his advantage. He is playing you
Ah the old class war bullshit. Figures you would go with that commie crap.
They had to change then plans because of the law, no law, and my plan would have been just fine.
He is more playing them. I know what I got in Trump, and right now we may need somewhat of a "burn it down" moment.
About your burn it down moment, I'm actually not totally against that, there is a ton of bloat and corruption in our government. I just don't think Trumpnis any different. He just has a different style that is much more offensive. He still lies and is still shady as shit
If the law didn't pass, they would not have had to make changes. I blame the person pulling the trigger, not the gun or the bullet.
The only difference is he lies differently, and is a different form of shady.
I was fine and dandy, I had my insurance from my company for 15 years, and before that I was with HIP for a year while I was interning. When i was interning I spent $200 a month to make sure I had coverage. (In 1997).
The thing is progressives won't ever admit that some people may get screwed by something. It's all "We're helping EVERYONE" and even if some people get screwed, we deserve it because we studied hard, went to school, followed the rules, and probably had both parents. Oh, and I'm white so its OK if I get fucked over a bit, because I probably deserve it.
I am sick of being told I owe people shit who never earned what I supposedly owe them.
I'm not saying any of those things. I recognize that people got screwed by Obamacare, can you recognize that many people were also helped? I just want fair and honest discussion about it. I'm fine critiquing many aspects of the bill... But dismissing all the good that it did and simply saying that Obama lied, does nothing to progress the conversation. It had some good elements and had had some bad elements, if you can't admit that then you can't have an honest conversation. We should have been working on fixing the problems over the past 5 years, not wasting time posturing with the 'repeal and replace' bullshit.i guess you don't remember the clusterfuck that insurance was for decades in the past. The many people that were being taken advantage of by insurance companies, dropped from coverage, not covered when they got their bills, the many millions that were uninsured that would go bankrupt after an accident and those who could get coverage because of their medical conditions. I guess you thought that was all fine and dandy... I'm sorry you were inconvenienced by the effort to make things better. Keep bitching about it and blaming obama for lying. That's probably going to help thingsNot class warefare, more of a don't make excuses for the highly successful insurance companies that were the ones that dictate what happens with your insurance. Yes Obamacare upped the regulations in an attempt to up the standards and number of people covered. The law is not free from blame for you losing your plan... but blaming it all on Obama lying is a cheap and dishonest statement.Ah the old class war bullshit. Figures you would go with that commie crap.
They had to change then plans because of the law, no law, and my plan would have been just fine.
He is more playing them. I know what I got in Trump, and right now we may need somewhat of a "burn it down" moment.
About your burn it down moment, I'm actually not totally against that, there is a ton of bloat and corruption in our government. I just don't think Trumpnis any different. He just has a different style that is much more offensive. He still lies and is still shady as shit
If the law didn't pass, they would not have had to make changes. I blame the person pulling the trigger, not the gun or the bullet.
The only difference is he lies differently, and is a different form of shady.
I was fine and dandy, I had my insurance from my company for 15 years, and before that I was with HIP for a year while I was interning. When i was interning I spent $200 a month to make sure I had coverage. (In 1997).
The thing is progressives won't ever admit that some people may get screwed by something. It's all "We're helping EVERYONE" and even if some people get screwed, we deserve it because we studied hard, went to school, followed the rules, and probably had both parents. Oh, and I'm white so its OK if I get fucked over a bit, because I probably deserve it.
I am sick of being told I owe people shit who never earned what I supposedly owe them.
