Rayshard Brooks: A justified use of deadly force, explained

[TemplarKormac]

A taser is not lethal.

Yes it is. Georgia law even classifies it as a firearm.

They had his wallet and driver’s license, and car.

So, some other officer, in the future, was going to be forced to have a shootout with this guy who would obviously resist and avoid arrest AGAIN? So, this guy gets to run away, get weapons, and be ready for the next attempt to arrest his child-beating ass?

They delayed medical help.

Now I KNOW you are drinking the koolaid. That is a FUCKING LIE!!!

For most of the encounter (41 something minutes) Rayshard was calm, reasonable, offered to walk home (per recorded footage).

Of course he did. He was trying to get out of going to jail.

The fact is that this guy was pass-out drunk behind the wheel of a car that was running (prima facia evidence that he was driving it while pass-out drunk). This is the kind of person we MUST get off the road and prosecute for drunk driving. They are the #1 cause of vehicular fatalities in America. Cops have NO CHOICE and they SHOULD have NO CHOICE.

So, walk home, my ass. This guy MUST suffer the consequences of driving while shit-faced and thank Odin he didn't kill anybody.

Your question is really contingent on another: could this have been handled differently in a way that kept everyone safe, and prevented any deaths?

Yes. Motherfucker could have submitted to a lawful arrest!!!



Look, are we going to continue giving police the authority to make arrests or not? If not, fine. Let's just make a fucking non-race-based decision that applies to everyone, with zero discretion.

You know good and goddamn well that if cops found my white ass passed out behind the wheel like that, they would be hauling me to jail too.

.

.

Would they shoot you in the back?

If I were pointing a weapon capable of stopping your heart with a 50,000-volt electric pulse at you, yes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

However, I do feel a $5000 fine and a year in jail is way excessive just for punching someone in the face.

He punched an officer in the face, which escalated it to an aggravated misdemeanor, and ergo, felony resisting arrest.

not a capital crime

That's not what got him killed. Pay attention.

Nothing he did was a capital offense.

The only time the cops would have been justified in shooting Brooks was during the actual physical altercation.

Reframing still not working.

And as always, your assertion conflicts with the laws of Georgia.

 

[Coyote]

However, I do feel a $5000 fine and a year in jail is way excessive just for punching someone in the face.

He punched an officer in the face, which escalated it to an aggravated misdemeanor, and ergo, felony resisting arrest.

not a capital crime

Nice attempt at reframing, but this is not "capital punishment", when the state decides with cold logic and deliberation to execute someone. This is self-defense, when you make an armed individual feel that you are a danger to him.

When is someone e is running away how is it self defense?

 

[TemplarKormac]

However, I do feel a $5000 fine and a year in jail is way excessive just for punching someone in the face.

He punched an officer in the face, which escalated it to an aggravated misdemeanor, and ergo, felony resisting arrest.

not a capital crime

Nice attempt at reframing, but this is not "capital punishment", when the state decides with cold logic and deliberation to execute someone. This is self-defense, when you make an armed individual feel that you are a danger to him.

When is someone e is running away how is it self defense?

Eh?

 

[Coyote]

A taser is not lethal.

Yes it is. Georgia law even classifies it as a firearm.

They had his wallet and driver’s license, and car.

So, some other officer, in the future, was going to be forced to have a shootout with this guy who would obviously resist and avoid arrest AGAIN? So, this guy gets to run away, get weapons, and be ready for the next attempt to arrest his child-beating ass?

They delayed medical help.

Now I KNOW you are drinking the koolaid. That is a FUCKING LIE!!!

For most of the encounter (41 something minutes) Rayshard was calm, reasonable, offered to walk home (per recorded footage).

Of course he did. He was trying to get out of going to jail.

The fact is that this guy was pass-out drunk behind the wheel of a car that was running (prima facia evidence that he was driving it while pass-out drunk). This is the kind of person we MUST get off the road and prosecute for drunk driving. They are the #1 cause of vehicular fatalities in America. Cops have NO CHOICE and they SHOULD have NO CHOICE.

So, walk home, my ass. This guy MUST suffer the consequences of driving while shit-faced and thank Odin he didn't kill anybody.

Your question is really contingent on another: could this have been handled differently in a way that kept everyone safe, and prevented any deaths?

Yes. Motherfucker could have submitted to a lawful arrest!!!



Look, are we going to continue giving police the authority to make arrests or not? If not, fine. Let's just make a fucking non-race-based decision that applies to everyone, with zero discretion.

You know good and goddamn well that if cops found my white ass passed out behind the wheel like that, they would be hauling me to jail too.

.

.

Oh get off your strawman.

No one is arguing that police did not have the right or should not have the ability to arrest him.

The argument is whether lethal force was necessarry.

 

[Coyote]

However, I do feel a $5000 fine and a year in jail is way excessive just for punching someone in the face.

He punched an officer in the face, which escalated it to an aggravated misdemeanor, and ergo, felony resisting arrest.

not a capital crime

Nice attempt at reframing, but this is not "capital punishment", when the state decides with cold logic and deliberation to execute someone. This is self-defense, when you make an armed individual feel that you are a danger to him.

When is someone e is running away how is it self defense?

Eh?

How can you say it is self defense when the person is running away from you?

 

[miketx]

I won't dive into the federal offenses he committed before he died. I am making the case that the police followed Georgia law to the letter. A grand jury will likely not convict Rolfe and Bronson based on these facts.

I challenge you, the reader, to prove me otherwise.

Twinkie, the cop shot this guy in the back.

I repeat. He shot the guy in the back. Twice. Over a parking violation.

Liar. You filthy scum are the problem.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The argument is whether lethal force was necessarry.

It was.

Tasers can produce anywhere between 20 and 50,000 volts of electricity to the target. That is enough to stop your heart.

I am pretty sure Rolfe was aware of that fact as Brooks pointed it and fired at him.

 

[miketx]

A taser is not lethal.

Yes it is. Georgia law even classifies it as a firearm.

They had his wallet and driver’s license, and car.

So, some other officer, in the future, was going to be forced to have a shootout with this guy who would obviously resist and avoid arrest AGAIN? So, this guy gets to run away, get weapons, and be ready for the next attempt to arrest his child-beating ass?

They delayed medical help.

Now I KNOW you are drinking the koolaid. That is a FUCKING LIE!!!

For most of the encounter (41 something minutes) Rayshard was calm, reasonable, offered to walk home (per recorded footage).

Of course he did. He was trying to get out of going to jail.

The fact is that this guy was pass-out drunk behind the wheel of a car that was running (prima facia evidence that he was driving it while pass-out drunk). This is the kind of person we MUST get off the road and prosecute for drunk driving. They are the #1 cause of vehicular fatalities in America. Cops have NO CHOICE and they SHOULD have NO CHOICE.

So, walk home, my ass. This guy MUST suffer the consequences of driving while shit-faced and thank Odin he didn't kill anybody.

Your question is really contingent on another: could this have been handled differently in a way that kept everyone safe, and prevented any deaths?

Yes. Motherfucker could have submitted to a lawful arrest!!!



Look, are we going to continue giving police the authority to make arrests or not? If not, fine. Let's just make a fucking non-race-based decision that applies to everyone, with zero discretion.

You know good and goddamn well that if cops found my white ass passed out behind the wheel like that, they would be hauling me to jail too.

.

.

Oh get off your strawman.

No one is arguing that police did not have the right or should not have the ability to arrest him.

The argument is whether lethal force was necessarry.

Some shoots me with a tazer, If I can I'm shooting them with a gun.

 

[TemplarKormac]

However, I do feel a $5000 fine and a year in jail is way excessive just for punching someone in the face.

He punched an officer in the face, which escalated it to an aggravated misdemeanor, and ergo, felony resisting arrest.

not a capital crime

Nice attempt at reframing, but this is not "capital punishment", when the state decides with cold logic and deliberation to execute someone. This is self-defense, when you make an armed individual feel that you are a danger to him.

When is someone e is running away how is it self defense?

Eh?

How can you say it is self defense when the person is running away from you?

When, in the process of fleeing and initiating hostile behavior toward you, the person makes a willful attempt to engage with force and becomes an aggressor.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Rayshard Brooks: A justified use of deadly force, explained

What Brooks did by punching an officer in the face was an aggravated misdemeanor, punishable by a $5,000 fine and up to 1 year in jail (see Ga. Code Ann. § 17-10-4.).

GA CODE § 16-5-23 (e)

(e) Any person who commits the offense of simple battery against a police officer, correction officer, or detention officer engaged in carrying out official duties shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished for a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature.

Brooks, by resisting arrest, punching the officer in the face and later firing a taser at the police officer was guilty of a felony under Georgia Law, punishable by a maximum of five years in jail:

GA CODE § 16-10-24 (b)

Whoever knowingly and willfully resists, obstructs, or opposes any law enforcement officer, prison guard, correctional officer, probation supervisor, parole supervisor, or conservation ranger in the lawful discharge of his official duties by offering or doing violence to the person of such officer or legally authorized person is guilty of a felony and shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years.


GA CODE § 16-11-123

As soon as Brooks gained possession of the taser, he was facing five years in jail for illegally possessing a firearm. As the law states:

"A person commits the offense of unlawful possession of firearms or weapons when he or she knowingly has in his or her possession any sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer, and, upon conviction thereof, he or she shall be punished by imprisonment for a period of five years."

GA CODE § 16-11-106 (a)

Tasers are considered firearms under Georgia Law:

(a) For the purposes of this Code section, the term "firearm" shall include stun guns and tasers. A stun gun or taser is any device that is powered by electrical charging units such as batteries and emits an electrical charge in excess of 20,000 volts or is otherwise capable of incapacitating a person by an electrical charge.

GA CODE § 16-5-21 (c)(1)(A)

What Brooks did with the taser he stole would have warranted 10 to 20 years in jail under Georgia law had he survived the encounter. As stated above (in § 16-11-106), tasers are classified as firearms:

(c)

(1) A person who knowingly commits the offense of aggravated assault upon a public safety officer while he or she is engaged in, or on account of the performance of, his or her official duties shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished as follows:

(A) When such assault occurs by the discharge of a firearm by a person who is at least 17 years of age, such person shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than ten nor more than 20 years.

GA CODE § 16-3-21 (a)

First conclusion: Officer Rolfe was justified in using deadly force to prevent the commission of a "forcible felony" (as defined in GA CODE § 16-11-131), given that the one or more of the above offenses committed by Brooks would have resulted in imprisonment of more than one year in jail:

(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person against such other's imminent use of unlawful force; however, except as provided in Code Section 16-3-23-, a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

GA CODE § 17-4-20 (b)

Second conclusion: Rolfe was permitted to use deadly force to apprehend the felon or misdemeanant:

(b) Sheriffs and peace officers who are appointed or employed in conformity with Chapter 8 of Title 35 may use deadly force to apprehend a suspected felon only when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon or any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury; when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of physical violence to the officer or others; or when there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm. Nothing in this Code section shall be construed so as to restrict such sheriffs or peace officers from the use of such reasonable nondeadly force as may be necessary to apprehend and arrest a suspected felon or misdemeanant.


I won't dive into the federal offenses he committed before he died. I am making the case that the police followed Georgia law to the letter. A grand jury will likely not convict Rolfe and Bronson based on these facts.

I challenge you, the reader, to prove me otherwise.

All of this bullshit, to cover up the fact that the police murdered a man who passed out in his car. He was endangered NO ONE. The cop fired 4 times in a crowded parking lot, hitting another occupied car. All of the actions of the officer violated police procedure and endangered the public.

The police officers were at no time in danger of being harmed. Mr. Brooks was compliant and reasonable. They murdered him, and kicked him as he lay dying. Stood on his body as he fought for his life.

I hope he spends the rest of his life in prison.

"Everything that isn't what I want to hear is bullshit. THIS is what I want to believe, therefore it's TRUE!"

It's not just that no one asked you for your Canadian shut-in lunatic point of view; it's that there's a really good reason WHY no one asked.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I hope he spends the rest of his life in prison.

Your hatred of police is duly noted.

Now if we could get her to mind her own business and hate her own damned police, that'd be great.

 

[petro]

Here's the clincher, he didn't.

Instead this race-soldier used the opportune time of the victim running AWAY from him, to pump him full of lead, in his back.

The DA already addressed this.

Nice try, but....FAIL!

The DA is facing charges of sexual assault and fraud of public money, playing a shell game during an election cycle.
How convenient of you to ignore that.

 

[petro]

Rayshard Brooks: A justified use of deadly force, explained

What Brooks did by punching an officer in the face was an aggravated misdemeanor, punishable by a $5,000 fine and up to 1 year in jail (see Ga. Code Ann. § 17-10-4.).

GA CODE § 16-5-23 (e)

(e) Any person who commits the offense of simple battery against a police officer, correction officer, or detention officer engaged in carrying out official duties shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished for a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature.

Brooks, by resisting arrest, punching the officer in the face and later firing a taser at the police officer was guilty of a felony under Georgia Law, punishable by a maximum of five years in jail:

GA CODE § 16-10-24 (b)

Whoever knowingly and willfully resists, obstructs, or opposes any law enforcement officer, prison guard, correctional officer, probation supervisor, parole supervisor, or conservation ranger in the lawful discharge of his official duties by offering or doing violence to the person of such officer or legally authorized person is guilty of a felony and shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years.


GA CODE § 16-11-123

As soon as Brooks gained possession of the taser, he was facing five years in jail for illegally possessing a firearm. As the law states:

"A person commits the offense of unlawful possession of firearms or weapons when he or she knowingly has in his or her possession any sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer, and, upon conviction thereof, he or she shall be punished by imprisonment for a period of five years."

GA CODE § 16-11-106 (a)

Tasers are considered firearms under Georgia Law:

(a) For the purposes of this Code section, the term "firearm" shall include stun guns and tasers. A stun gun or taser is any device that is powered by electrical charging units such as batteries and emits an electrical charge in excess of 20,000 volts or is otherwise capable of incapacitating a person by an electrical charge.

GA CODE § 16-5-21 (c)(1)(A)

What Brooks did with the taser he stole would have warranted 10 to 20 years in jail under Georgia law had he survived the encounter. As stated above (in § 16-11-106), tasers are classified as firearms:

(c)

(1) A person who knowingly commits the offense of aggravated assault upon a public safety officer while he or she is engaged in, or on account of the performance of, his or her official duties shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished as follows:

(A) When such assault occurs by the discharge of a firearm by a person who is at least 17 years of age, such person shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than ten nor more than 20 years.

GA CODE § 16-3-21 (a)

First conclusion: Officer Rolfe was justified in using deadly force to prevent the commission of a "forcible felony" (as defined in GA CODE § 16-11-131), given that the one or more of the above offenses committed by Brooks would have resulted in imprisonment of more than one year in jail:

(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person against such other's imminent use of unlawful force; however, except as provided in Code Section 16-3-23-, a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

GA CODE § 17-4-20 (b)

Second conclusion: Rolfe was permitted to use deadly force to apprehend the felon or misdemeanant:

(b) Sheriffs and peace officers who are appointed or employed in conformity with Chapter 8 of Title 35 may use deadly force to apprehend a suspected felon only when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon or any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury; when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of physical violence to the officer or others; or when there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm. Nothing in this Code section shall be construed so as to restrict such sheriffs or peace officers from the use of such reasonable nondeadly force as may be necessary to apprehend and arrest a suspected felon or misdemeanant.


I won't dive into the federal offenses he committed before he died. I am making the case that the police followed Georgia law to the letter. A grand jury will likely not convict Rolfe and Bronson based on these facts.

I challenge you, the reader, to prove me otherwise.

The officer's life was not in danger.

Everyone's life was in danger the minute he got in a 3000lb deadly weapon and drove drunk.
Would be a whole different story if the cops didn't interfere and he killed someone on the road.
Folks like you are too stupid to be sharing oxygen with the rest of humanity.

 

[TemplarKormac]

LOL. Mr. Righteous got his ass walked back:

 

[toobfreak]

I would immediately tell all officers that they are to shoot the moment they have a clear shot, when anyone resist arrest in such a fashion. If I am a cop, the minute it appears like someone I am arresting is being hostile around my firearm, I will draw and fire.

Yep. If anyone gets agitated or struggles at the idea of being hand-cuffed and taken to jail, no matter how stupid the misunderstanding, just draw your weapon out, step back and blast away. Hopefully, he won't take the gun off of you.

Why waste time and make it a rule that in all encounters with police, traffic stops, civil complaints, just shoot everybody! Imagine the time and the paperwork it would save!

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Would they shoot you in the back?

What do you mean?

Before or after I DID NOT resist a lawful arrest?

.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

A taser is not lethal.

Yes it is. Georgia law even classifies it as a firearm.

They had his wallet and driver’s license, and car.

So, some other officer, in the future, was going to be forced to have a shootout with this guy who would obviously resist and avoid arrest AGAIN? So, this guy gets to run away, get weapons, and be ready for the next attempt to arrest his child-beating ass?

They delayed medical help.

Now I KNOW you are drinking the koolaid. That is a FUCKING LIE!!!

For most of the encounter (41 something minutes) Rayshard was calm, reasonable, offered to walk home (per recorded footage).

Of course he did. He was trying to get out of going to jail.

The fact is that this guy was pass-out drunk behind the wheel of a car that was running (prima facia evidence that he was driving it while pass-out drunk). This is the kind of person we MUST get off the road and prosecute for drunk driving. They are the #1 cause of vehicular fatalities in America. Cops have NO CHOICE and they SHOULD have NO CHOICE.

So, walk home, my ass. This guy MUST suffer the consequences of driving while shit-faced and thank Odin he didn't kill anybody.

Your question is really contingent on another: could this have been handled differently in a way that kept everyone safe, and prevented any deaths?

Yes. Motherfucker could have submitted to a lawful arrest!!!



Look, are we going to continue giving police the authority to make arrests or not? If not, fine. Let's just make a fucking non-race-based decision that applies to everyone, with zero discretion.

You know good and goddamn well that if cops found my white ass passed out behind the wheel like that, they would be hauling me to jail too.

.

.

Oh get off your strawman.

No one is arguing that police did not have the right or should not have the ability to arrest him.

The argument is whether lethal force was necessarry.

Let's have that discussion.

Was lethal force necessary the moment he started fighting with cops? That is how he got the firearm (taser) in the first place.

Was lethal force necessary when he was on top of one cop punching him in the face?

Make your position absoultely clear. WHEN during all that entire transaction, do you think lethal force was necessary?

.

 

[petro]

A taser is not lethal.

Yes it is. Georgia law even classifies it as a firearm.

They had his wallet and driver’s license, and car.

So, some other officer, in the future, was going to be forced to have a shootout with this guy who would obviously resist and avoid arrest AGAIN? So, this guy gets to run away, get weapons, and be ready for the next attempt to arrest his child-beating ass?

They delayed medical help.

Now I KNOW you are drinking the koolaid. That is a FUCKING LIE!!!

For most of the encounter (41 something minutes) Rayshard was calm, reasonable, offered to walk home (per recorded footage).

Of course he did. He was trying to get out of going to jail.

The fact is that this guy was pass-out drunk behind the wheel of a car that was running (prima facia evidence that he was driving it while pass-out drunk). This is the kind of person we MUST get off the road and prosecute for drunk driving. They are the #1 cause of vehicular fatalities in America. Cops have NO CHOICE and they SHOULD have NO CHOICE.

So, walk home, my ass. This guy MUST suffer the consequences of driving while shit-faced and thank Odin he didn't kill anybody.

Your question is really contingent on another: could this have been handled differently in a way that kept everyone safe, and prevented any deaths?

Yes. Motherfucker could have submitted to a lawful arrest!!!



Look, are we going to continue giving police the authority to make arrests or not? If not, fine. Let's just make a fucking non-race-based decision that applies to everyone, with zero discretion.

You know good and goddamn well that if cops found my white ass passed out behind the wheel like that, they would be hauling me to jail too.

.

.

Would they shoot you in the back?

No. Because a grown up like 99% of those arrested for DUI, accept they screwed up and don't resist like a man child, or actively fight an armed officer.
The idiot died from his own stupidity, selfishness, and failure to Man up and face the consequences of his entirely irresponsible actions.

 

[toobfreak]

However, I do feel a $5000 fine and a year in jail is way excessive just for punching someone in the face.

He punched an officer in the face, which escalated it to an aggravated misdemeanor, and ergo, felony resisting arrest.

not a capital crime

Nice attempt at reframing, but this is not "capital punishment", when the state decides with cold logic and deliberation to execute someone. This is self-defense, when you make an armed individual feel that you are a danger to him.

When is someone e is running away how is it self defense?

Eh?

How can you say it is self defense when the person is running away from you?

I thought we covered that ad nauseum:

1. An arrestee is struggling with you on the ground. Adrenaline is flowing high. He starts reaching for the weapons on your belt pack. You are now in a life and death situation.
2. The guy gets loose with your taser, a serious weapon that can disable you allowing him to take your service revolver as well and turn it against you. He is desperate.
3. He turns and points it at you, tries to use it. Your life is now on the line and your police training kicks in to shoot back in self defense.

This all happens in a split second. Between the time you respond and fire, he's missed and has turned to flee, but the directive to initiate deadly force has already been set into motion. Your brain has sent the signal that your life is being threatened. You are on pure instinct now. In an ideal world with us all sitting around in our sofas analyzing this, it is easy to say that in the last instant, the cop could have stopped and initiated pursuit instead, but the guy has already shown a willingness to try to kill a cop to get away, and for all you know, has another weapon on him and in another few steps could try to use that too.

Maybe in a few seconds, he will commandeer another car nearby, put someone else's life at risk, maybe a mother with two young children, and use it to try to get away.

BOTTOM LINE: If you don't want to get shot by police:

• DON'T RESIST ARREST.
• DON'T STRUGGLE WITH THE POLICE FIGHTING THEM ON THE GROUND.
• DON'T TAKE THEIR WEAPON, GET UP, POINT IT AT THEM AND TRY TO USE IT.

Every cop in Atlanta ought to call off and refuse to work again until this man is cleared, set free and allowed to return to work. As I said before, I might have just let him park and walk home, but the criminal is out to get you and if your own employer doesn't even have your back either and is willing to throw you under the bus too out of politics, then WHAT IS THE POINT?

Had this happened a year ago, there would be NO QUESTION this officer acted justly.