Re-Evaluating Newt..

[Toro]

When did newt say he wanst to lay off janitors to have poor kids do their job?

He said "get rid of" not lay off:

“This is something that no liberal wants to deal with,” Gingrich said. “Core policies of protecting unionization and bureaucratization against children in the poorest neighborhoods, crippling them by putting them in schools that fail has done more to create income inequality in the United States than any other single policy. It is tragic what we do in the poorest neighborhoods, entrapping children in, first of all, child laws, which are truly stupid.

“You say to somebody, you shouldn’t go to work before you’re what, 14, 16 years of age, fine. You’re totally poor. You’re in a school that is failing with a teacher that is failing. I’ve tried for years to have a very simple model,” he said. “Most of these schools ought to get rid of the unionized janitors, have one master janitor and pay local students to take care of the school. The kids would actually do work, they would have cash, they would have pride in the schools, they’d begin the process of rising.”
He added, “You go out and talk to people, as I do, you go out and talk to people who are really successful in one generation. They all started their first job between nine and 14 years of age. They all were either selling newspapers, going door to door, they were doing something, they were washing cars.”

“They all learned how to make money at a very early age,” he said. “What do we say to poor kids in poor neighborhoods? Don’t do it. Remember all that stuff about don’t get a hamburger flipping job? The worst possible advice you could give to poor children. Get any job that teaches you to show up on Monday. Get any job that teaches you to stay all day even if you are in a fight with your girlfriend. The whole process of making work worthwhile is central.”

Not An Onion Spoof: Newt Gingrich’s Education Plan Is To Fire Janitors And Replace Them With Kids | Mediaite

Video of him saying it is at the link.

I see where you get the talking point from but if you look at the context, which you provided, you would see claiming that "Newts education plan is to fire janitors and replace them with kids" is a completely dishonest statement.

He used that as an example of what he thinks would be best for poor children who grow up in an environment where no one is working...that would be to get them working small jobs so they understand what working is all about and they are more prepared to move out into the real world taking care of themselves instead of waiting for handouts.

Newt's position is "Give a man to fish you have fed him for a day, Teach a man to fish you have fed him for a lifetime"

You do realize how dishonest the statment that this is Newts answer to education is, right?

If your truly curious in the truth of Newts position then listen to him explain it in his own words....without the spin

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP1n5psMbZE]Greta VanSusteren interviews Newt Gingrich 12/1/2011 ***EXCELLENT*** - YouTube[/ame]

I don't want to watch for 15 minutes. What minute is it at?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

skip up to 1:15 and listen for about 5 min

 

[SAT2]

Can someone tell me the difference between getting rid of union janitors and laying them off? Is that really what you're going to go with?

 

[candycorn]

The thing about Gingrich is what else can the press dig up about him? All his dirty laundry is out for show. He's an unethical lying philanderer. But we've known that for over a decade. Tell us something we don't know.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Newt. He is very intelligent, articulate, at times a tremendous politicians (and other times not), and - unlike Romney - has enough conservative street cred for at least some of the base to want to knock doors for him, not just against Obama.

Though the odds aren't favourable, I can see Gingrich becoming President. Obama is vulnerable, the Democrats have been incompetent, and the Republican slate of candidates is very weak.

Gingrich has foot-in-mouth disease. Mt. Gingrich is an active volcano and we're just waiting for the next eruption.

As for what-else can the press dig up? The light hasn't been this harsh on Newt for years. His ties to Fannie and Freddie may just be the tip of the ice berg.

I hope they elect Newt.
I demand they elect Newt.

I think the GOP candidate has a real shot, including Newt.

Between any two combatants, it's a coin flip's chance.

I'll flub the line I heard but here it goes:

The race doesn't always go to the swift....the fight doesn't always go to the strong.

 

[candycorn]

When did newt say he wanst to lay off janitors to have poor kids do their job?

He said "get rid of" not lay off:

“This is something that no liberal wants to deal with,” Gingrich said. “Core policies of protecting unionization and bureaucratization against children in the poorest neighborhoods, crippling them by putting them in schools that fail has done more to create income inequality in the United States than any other single policy. It is tragic what we do in the poorest neighborhoods, entrapping children in, first of all, child laws, which are truly stupid.

“You say to somebody, you shouldn’t go to work before you’re what, 14, 16 years of age, fine. You’re totally poor. You’re in a school that is failing with a teacher that is failing. I’ve tried for years to have a very simple model,” he said. “Most of these schools ought to get rid of the unionized janitors, have one master janitor and pay local students to take care of the school. The kids would actually do work, they would have cash, they would have pride in the schools, they’d begin the process of rising.”
He added, “You go out and talk to people, as I do, you go out and talk to people who are really successful in one generation. They all started their first job between nine and 14 years of age. They all were either selling newspapers, going door to door, they were doing something, they were washing cars.”

“They all learned how to make money at a very early age,” he said. “What do we say to poor kids in poor neighborhoods? Don’t do it. Remember all that stuff about don’t get a hamburger flipping job? The worst possible advice you could give to poor children. Get any job that teaches you to show up on Monday. Get any job that teaches you to stay all day even if you are in a fight with your girlfriend. The whole process of making work worthwhile is central.”

Not An Onion Spoof: Newt Gingrich’s Education Plan Is To Fire Janitors And Replace Them With Kids | Mediaite

Video of him saying it is at the link.

I see where you get the talking point from but if you look at the context, which you provided, you would see claiming that "Newts education plan is to fire janitors and replace them with kids" is a completely dishonest statement.

He used that as an example of what he thinks would be best for poor children who grow up in an environment where no one is working...that would be to get them working small jobs so they understand what working is all about and they are more prepared to move out into the real world taking care of themselves instead of waiting for handouts.

Newt's position is "Give a man to fish you have fed him for a day, Teach a man to fish you have fed him for a lifetime"

You do realize how dishonest the statment that this is Newts answer to education is, right?

If your truly curious in the truth of Newts position then listen to him explain it in his own words....without the spin

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP1n5psMbZE]Greta VanSusteren interviews Newt Gingrich 12/1/2011 ***EXCELLENT*** - YouTube[/ame]

You asked where he was quoted.

T, of course, rushed to the defense and said it was a lie.

I simply pointed out T's lie in the matter.

The title of the link is the title...I take no responsibility for that. It was also quoted on politico.com if you would prefer to read it there.

Newt's plan is stupid. Had he characterized it in terms of kids shadowing janitors, journalists, teachers, administrators, the facilities crew that fixes the school's physical plant, etc... it would be one thing.

Instead, he does what wingnuts always do and use the word "union" to somehow try to get some mileage out of it. I'm always surprised that it works on the GOP voters so often.

The other thread where it quotes him as saying he wants them to scrub toilets is patently false.

 

[JoeB131]

How is laying off janitors and giving their jobs to poor children helping anyone to solve their problems themselves?

You mean other than teaching these kids a work ethic and not "the world owes you a living?"

Which is the biggest problem with the welfare state. The world owes you.

 

[Toro]

How is laying off janitors and giving their jobs to poor children helping anyone to solve their problems themselves?

You mean other than teaching these kids a work ethic and not "the world owes you a living?"

Which is the biggest problem with the welfare state. The world owes you.

You think companies owe you, so what's the difference?

Besides, you think its a good idea that the way to teach kids a good work ethic is to fire the people they are replacing? IOW, its bad if companies fire American workers and hire foreign workers but its good if the government fires American workers and replaces them with child labour?

lol

 

[SAT2]

How is laying off janitors and giving their jobs to poor children helping anyone to solve their problems themselves?

You mean other than teaching these kids a work ethic and not "the world owes you a living?"

Which is the biggest problem with the welfare state. The world owes you.

I ask the question again, how is laying off an adult worker, and giving that job to a child, going to help anyone solve their own problems?

 

[JoeB131]

How is laying off janitors and giving their jobs to poor children helping anyone to solve their problems themselves?

You mean other than teaching these kids a work ethic and not "the world owes you a living?"

Which is the biggest problem with the welfare state. The world owes you.

You think companies owe you, so what's the difference?

Besides, you think its a good idea that the way to teach kids a good work ethic is to fire the people they are replacing? IOW, its bad if companies fire American workers and hire foreign workers but its good if the government fires American workers and replaces them with child labour?

lol

Umm, how about the fact they are FOREIGNERS to start with.

As in "NOT AMERICANS".

I know this is a hard concept for you to grasp, that the American government should do what is best for AMERICANS. And so should corporations if they want to do business here.

But I think you miss the point of the whole issue. The point is to teach the kids A WORK ETHIC. I learned a work ethic at a very early age. First job was working at a pizza place for some really obnoxious people. That just inspired me to work harder and get more education and more skills.

I expect that to be a fair exchange, not that companies "owe" me. I mean, I already know they are going to rip me off, that's the Wall Street Way. Constant vigilance.




Frankly, I've been inside a few public schools. The janitors need to be fired. Went to one in Cicero in 2000 when I took training to work on the Census. The place was a dump. Literally falling apart.

 

[JoeB131]

How is laying off janitors and giving their jobs to poor children helping anyone to solve their problems themselves?

You mean other than teaching these kids a work ethic and not "the world owes you a living?"

Which is the biggest problem with the welfare state. The world owes you.

I ask the question again, how is laying off an adult worker, and giving that job to a child, going to help anyone solve their own problems?

Well, let's see now.

If you fire the union thug who spent two hours stratching his balls and drinking coffee every day before he started putting in any work, it would be a real learning thing for him. Like in, "Hey, I was underperforming, and I got let go."

Meanwhile, the kid will learn- "Hey, work equals rewards, and taking pride in something betters it!"

 

[Toro]

You mean other than teaching these kids a work ethic and not "the world owes you a living?"

Which is the biggest problem with the welfare state. The world owes you.

You think companies owe you, so what's the difference?

Besides, you think its a good idea that the way to teach kids a good work ethic is to fire the people they are replacing? IOW, its bad if companies fire American workers and hire foreign workers but its good if the government fires American workers and replaces them with child labour?

lol

Umm, how about the fact they are FOREIGNERS to start with.

As in "NOT AMERICANS".

I know this is a hard concept for you to grasp, that the American government should do what is best for AMERICANS. And so should corporations if they want to do business here.

But I think you miss the point of the whole issue. The point is to teach the kids A WORK ETHIC. I learned a work ethic at a very early age. First job was working at a pizza place for some really obnoxious people. That just inspired me to work harder and get more education and more skills.

I expect that to be a fair exchange, not that companies "owe" me. I mean, I already know they are going to rip me off, that's the Wall Street Way. Constant vigilance.




Frankly, I've been inside a few public schools. The janitors need to be fired. Went to one in Cicero in 2000 when I took training to work on the Census. The place was a dump. Literally falling apart.

My uncle and cousins were janitors in public schools and I did janitorial work on the weekend in college. So fuck you.

But, once again, you miss the point. You teach the kids to work hard so they'll learn that ... one day they'll be fired! That's moronic.

And yeah, you think companies owe you a job because you're an American.

 

[JoeB131]

My uncle and cousins were janitors in public schools and I did janitorial work on the weekend in college. So fuck you.

But, once again, you miss the point. You teach the kids to work hard so they'll learn that ... one day they'll be fired! That's moronic.

And yeah, you think companies owe you a job because you're an American.

getting fired is part of working, man. The system kind of depends on it. Jobs where people work until they retire are a thing of the past, and you know it.

Except government jobs.

But again, I see how public schools are maintained vs. how offices are maintained... Ummm, yeah, there's a big difference.

 

[Toro]

My uncle and cousins were janitors in public schools and I did janitorial work on the weekend in college. So fuck you.

But, once again, you miss the point. You teach the kids to work hard so they'll learn that ... one day they'll be fired! That's moronic.

And yeah, you think companies owe you a job because you're an American.

getting fired is part of working, man. The system kind of depends on it. Jobs where people work until they retire are a thing of the past, and you know it.

Except government jobs.

But again, I see how public schools are maintained vs. how offices are maintained... Ummm, yeah, there's a big difference.

You teach kids that hard work rewards them, not that you'll get fired for it. What a stupid idea.

But I'm sure if a Mormon proposed it, you'd say how it reflects the evil of capitalism, how capitalism is screwing the middle class, why capitalism is the cause of our economic mess, how investors are parasites, etc., etc., etc.

 

[JoeB131]

My uncle and cousins were janitors in public schools and I did janitorial work on the weekend in college. So fuck you.

But, once again, you miss the point. You teach the kids to work hard so they'll learn that ... one day they'll be fired! That's moronic.

And yeah, you think companies owe you a job because you're an American.

getting fired is part of working, man. The system kind of depends on it. Jobs where people work until they retire are a thing of the past, and you know it.

Except government jobs.

But again, I see how public schools are maintained vs. how offices are maintained... Ummm, yeah, there's a big difference.

You teach kids that hard work rewards them, not that you'll get fired for it. What a stupid idea.

But I'm sure if a Mormon proposed it, you'd say how it reflects the evil of capitalism, how capitalism is screwing the middle class, why capitalism is the cause of our economic mess, how investors are parasites, etc., etc., etc.

I think you intentionally keep missing the point.

The point is not to "fire" hard working janitors. It's to teach the kids the value of hard work. Heck, at a certain point, they wouldn't even know they used to have adults who used to not do this work very hard.

But reality is, the other part of that lesson should be, you don't work hard, we give that job to someone else.

And whining about how I'm a meany to Mormons again. Man, you seriously need to get around that... I mean you complain when I talk about it (on point), but then you keep bringing it up.

 

[SAT2]

If you fire the union thug who spent two hours stratching his balls and drinking coffee every day before he started putting in any work, it would be a real learning thing for him. Like in, "Hey, I was underperforming, and I got let go."

Meanwhile, the kid will learn- "Hey, work equals rewards, and taking pride in something betters it!"

Except that has nothing to do with what Newt said. Newt didn't say a word about under performing janitors. Newt just said to get rid of janitors and replace them with children working under a master janitor.

I think you intentionally keep missing the point.

The point is not to "fire" hard working janitors. It's to teach the kids the value of hard work. Heck, at a certain point, they wouldn't even know they used to have adults who used to not do this work very hard.

But reality is, the other part of that lesson should be, you don't work hard, we give that job to someone else.

You're missing the point, and I doubt it's intentional. This hits all your buttons-your hate of unions, your resentment of union benefits, your dislike of government in general, your irritation with children in general-and you've lost the ability to think.

Whether it's the point or not, hard working janitors would be fired under this idiotic plan. And they would be replaced with children, to "teach them a lesson". Your assumption from the beginning is that school janitors don't work hard, and that they need to be punished for the sins you imagine that they have-you know, scratching their balls, drinking coffee. You add on your imaginary scenario about the state of uncleanliness in schools....

 

[JoeB131]

You're missing the point, and I doubt it's intentional. This hits all your buttons-your hate of unions, your resentment of union benefits, your dislike of government in general, your irritation with children in general-and you've lost the ability to think.

Whether it's the point or not, hard working janitors would be fired under this idiotic plan. And they would be replaced with children, to "teach them a lesson". Your assumption from the beginning is that school janitors don't work hard, and that they need to be punished for the sins you imagine that they have-you know, scratching their balls, drinking coffee. You add on your imaginary scenario about the state of uncleanliness in schools....

I was brought up in a Union Household. The problem with Unions is that they lost their way a long time ago when they became the ATM for the Democratic Party. They haven't been about the vast majority of us working folks for a long time, just preserving their benefits.

Wow, and yes, what a horrible less we'd be teaching them. That hard work brings rewards. Gosh, that's a horrible lesson. Don't they know the government is about the world owing them a living and they should sit at home at all day watching Jerry Springer?

My assumption that government workers don't work all that hard comes from my experience with government workers. Even FDR thought that government workers shouldn't have unions. Ironically, it's the International Brotherhood of Lazy Government Workers that keeps the union movement afloat today.

 

[Toro]

I think you intentionally keep missing the point.

The point is not to "fire" hard working janitors. It's to teach the kids the value of hard work. Heck, at a certain point, they wouldn't even know they used to have adults who used to not do this work very hard.

But Newt said we should "fire the janitors."

IOW, grow up, work hard, and one day, you too will be fired so we can teach kids the value of hard work.

And you don't even remotely see the irony in that?

 

[candycorn]

My uncle and cousins were janitors in public schools and I did janitorial work on the weekend in college. So fuck you.

But, once again, you miss the point. You teach the kids to work hard so they'll learn that ... one day they'll be fired! That's moronic.

And yeah, you think companies owe you a job because you're an American.

getting fired is part of working, man. The system kind of depends on it. Jobs where people work until they retire are a thing of the past, and you know it.

Except government jobs.

But again, I see how public schools are maintained vs. how offices are maintained... Ummm, yeah, there's a big difference.

I think the only response worthy of that is this:

JOE B ladies and gentlemen....next up at the comedy improv is ....

 

[JoeB131]

I think you intentionally keep missing the point.

The point is not to "fire" hard working janitors. It's to teach the kids the value of hard work. Heck, at a certain point, they wouldn't even know they used to have adults who used to not do this work very hard.

But Newt said we should "fire the janitors."

IOW, grow up, work hard, and one day, you too will be fired so we can teach kids the value of hard work.

And you don't even remotely see the irony in that?

Well, if their greatest aspiration is to be a Janitor, what does that say...

Except in Cloud Cookoo Liberal Land where the Janitors make more than the teachers.

Like I said, my first job, at 16 was making Pizzas for $1.50 an hour. It was an unpleasent job, horrible place to work. That just inspired me to get better jobs, acquire more skills, even go back to school from time to time to fill in gaps that I needed to fill in.

But if your goal is, "Heck, I'm just gonna get the government job, scratch my balls and drink coffee until 10 PM, and I'll get paid more than a teacher" that's nuts. That's totally senidng the wrong message.

School Custodians Earn More Than Bronx Teachers | NBC New York

Teachers in at least one Bronx school earn less money than the building custodian, a stat that has surprised students and parents.

Although it is commonly assumed teachers' wages top the salaries of custodians, an NBC New York analysis of public payrolls shows many custodians make more money than even the highest paid city teachers.

According to the union contract governing New York City Custodian Engineers, the men and women responsible for keeping school buildings clean and operating can make up to $114,000 a year in base pay. The highest paid teacher, with a masters degree and decades of tenure, can hope to make just over $100,000 in base pay.

Fuckin' insanity...

 

[JoeB131]

My uncle and cousins were janitors in public schools and I did janitorial work on the weekend in college. So fuck you.

But, once again, you miss the point. You teach the kids to work hard so they'll learn that ... one day they'll be fired! That's moronic.

And yeah, you think companies owe you a job because you're an American.

getting fired is part of working, man. The system kind of depends on it. Jobs where people work until they retire are a thing of the past, and you know it.

Except government jobs.

But again, I see how public schools are maintained vs. how offices are maintained... Ummm, yeah, there's a big difference.

I think the only response worthy of that is this:

JOE B ladies and gentlemen....next up at the comedy improv is ....

Gee, look above. Janitors are making more than teachers.

Talk about insanity..

Have a job you suck at and can never be fired from? Welcome to the Government...