Reforming Islam

[Conservative65]

the question does not apply to theology-----PERSONAL opinion is personal opinion. If you wanted your question to be applicable to this discussion---the
question should be ------"do any Christians adherent to a particular sect of
Christianity DISAGREE with the position of their sect leaders on homosexuality?

No. People who claim Christianity in the US believe those two things are inherently evil across the board. It doesn't mater which particular sect they belong to. Virtually all reject the belief that there are sects. It's either total acceptance of their beliefs, or you aren't a Christian.

I cannot say that all protestants I know would agree with you

Of course not 100%, but I doubt there is more than a statistical blip that disagree.

You doubt or you can prove?

No need to prove it. You are free to not believe it, but I suspect many know it is true.

If it's true, you can prove it. Otherwise, what you're saying is that people should believe it simply because you said it.

 

[Tilly]

A Christian would most likely say no, that Jesus was perfect. That is the dogma, like Sunni Man's.

Can you provide some examples of JEsus being 'wrong' as per your question.

Several. He had a bad temper including cursing a fig tree, killing pigs for no reason, disrupting Temple, rejecting his family, breaking the Sabbath, etc., And he was known as a lush and his teachings are all over the damn place and hard to align.

when did he kill innocent pigs? I have no recollection of this unfortunate
episode? ----the fig tree did not mind------fig trees always manage a STIFF UPPER LIP

Probably thinking of banishing demons from a person into some pigs near by.

Pigs aren't required for said process. He was just showing off, and killing innocent animals.

How do you know? Lol.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Can you provide some examples of JEsus being 'wrong' as per your question.

Several. He had a bad temper including cursing a fig tree, killing pigs for no reason, disrupting Temple, rejecting his family, breaking the Sabbath, etc., And he was known as a lush and his teachings are all over the damn place and hard to align.

when did he kill innocent pigs? I have no recollection of this unfortunate
episode? ----the fig tree did not mind------fig trees always manage a STIFF UPPER LIP

Probably thinking of banishing demons from a person into some pigs near by.

Pigs aren't required for said process. He was just showing off, and killing innocent animals.

the pigs killed each other. The demons asked to be pigs. Mark 5:12

One, didn't know that Jesus took direct from demons, two, since they then rushed to their deaths that was a very poor choice. Pigs are not required to banish demons.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Can you provide some examples of JEsus being 'wrong' as per your question.

Several. He had a bad temper including cursing a fig tree, killing pigs for no reason, disrupting Temple, rejecting his family, breaking the Sabbath, etc., And he was known as a lush and his teachings are all over the damn place and hard to align.

when did he kill innocent pigs? I have no recollection of this unfortunate
episode? ----the fig tree did not mind------fig trees always manage a STIFF UPPER LIP

Probably thinking of banishing demons from a person into some pigs near by.

Pigs aren't required for said process. He was just showing off, and killing innocent animals.

How do you know? Lol.

It's in the NT. Read it.

 

[Fueri]

Interesting question posed by the thread.

I've been wondering the same, but along a different tangent, not 'what', but rather 'how' to change it, as I am not aware of a central authority that could actually change anything.

The Catholic Church, for example, has the papacy. For all of it's foibles and how unbelievably slow it is to accept change, at least there is some means of talking sense to people. I don't see that with Islam, which leaves it wide open to these hijackings by nutbags that are just looking for some text in a book to justify their madness.

You might want to work on the "what" part, since that comes first.

I wasn't discounting the what, but I'd think the how is as important.

If there is no vehicle to implement them, 'what's' are then just ideas that have no hope of implementation.

For a coffee shop discussion, I'd imagine 'what' is good fodder.

For fostering actual change we can have all the greatest ideas on the planet, but they're useless without the 'how'.

This is a coffee shop discussion...

Ok, so it's senseless prattle that should ignore major questions wrt to reforming Islam.

gotcha.

prattle on....

 

[Tilly]

Probably thinking of banishing demons from a person into some pigs near by.

Pigs aren't required for said process. He was just showing off, and killing innocent animals.

Mohammed killed people. Pigs are killed all the time. People eat them, PMH. G-d you're funny today

The Christians didn't kill people? As for the pigs, just because we eat them doesn't mean Jesus had a right to kill what wasn't even his eh?

Now where did I say that?
That's right I didn't.
I'm not really concerned with your paltry list of Jesus' 'wrongs'. It's laughable.

I only needed one actually, to show imperfection.

You said wrongs. Now your saying imperfections. I don't think Jesus claimed to be perfect in his incarnation as a human, but even if he did, nothing you've said about his 'wrongs' are in any way alarming.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Pigs aren't required for said process. He was just showing off, and killing innocent animals.

Mohammed killed people. Pigs are killed all the time. People eat them, PMH. G-d you're funny today

The Christians didn't kill people? As for the pigs, just because we eat them doesn't mean Jesus had a right to kill what wasn't even his eh?

Now where did I say that?
That's right I didn't.
I'm not really concerned with your paltry list of Jesus' 'wrongs'. It's laughable.

I only needed one actually, to show imperfection.

You said wrongs. Now your saying imperfections. I don't think Jesus claimed to be perfect in his incarnation as a human, but even if he did, nothing you've said about his 'wrongs' are in any way alarming.

The lesser evil, as I said. And Jesus didn't claim to be perfect, or God for that matter, his supposed followers do.

 

[Tilly]

Several. He had a bad temper including cursing a fig tree, killing pigs for no reason, disrupting Temple, rejecting his family, breaking the Sabbath, etc., And he was known as a lush and his teachings are all over the damn place and hard to align.

when did he kill innocent pigs? I have no recollection of this unfortunate
episode? ----the fig tree did not mind------fig trees always manage a STIFF UPPER LIP

Probably thinking of banishing demons from a person into some pigs near by.

Pigs aren't required for said process. He was just showing off, and killing innocent animals.

How do you know? Lol.

It's in the NT. Read it.

Are you an exorcist?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Interesting question posed by the thread.

I've been wondering the same, but along a different tangent, not 'what', but rather 'how' to change it, as I am not aware of a central authority that could actually change anything.

The Catholic Church, for example, has the papacy. For all of it's foibles and how unbelievably slow it is to accept change, at least there is some means of talking sense to people. I don't see that with Islam, which leaves it wide open to these hijackings by nutbags that are just looking for some text in a book to justify their madness.

You might want to work on the "what" part, since that comes first.

I wasn't discounting the what, but I'd think the how is as important.

If there is no vehicle to implement them, 'what's' are then just ideas that have no hope of implementation.

For a coffee shop discussion, I'd imagine 'what' is good fodder.

For fostering actual change we can have all the greatest ideas on the planet, but they're useless without the 'how'.

This is a coffee shop discussion...

Ok, so it's senseless prattle that should ignore major questions wrt to reforming Islam.

gotcha.

prattle on....

How comes after what. How to make the world a better requires one to think first of what does that mean, then how to make said things a reality. There's nothing senseless about this and even if there were, your question would be even worse.

 

[Tilly]

Mohammed killed people. Pigs are killed all the time. People eat them, PMH. G-d you're funny today

The Christians didn't kill people? As for the pigs, just because we eat them doesn't mean Jesus had a right to kill what wasn't even his eh?

Now where did I say that?
That's right I didn't.
I'm not really concerned with your paltry list of Jesus' 'wrongs'. It's laughable.

I only needed one actually, to show imperfection.

You said wrongs. Now your saying imperfections. I don't think Jesus claimed to be perfect in his incarnation as a human, but even if he did, nothing you've said about his 'wrongs' are in any way alarming.

The lesser evil, as I said. And Jesus didn't claim to be perfect, or God for that matter, his supposed followers do.

No lesser evil. Jesus didn't do anything evil, muhammed did great evil. Geddit yet?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

when did he kill innocent pigs? I have no recollection of this unfortunate
episode? ----the fig tree did not mind------fig trees always manage a STIFF UPPER LIP

Probably thinking of banishing demons from a person into some pigs near by.

Pigs aren't required for said process. He was just showing off, and killing innocent animals.

How do you know? Lol.

It's in the NT. Read it.

Are you an exorcist?

No, but Jesus was, and he didn't require pigs in most cases.

 

[Tilly]

Looks like Jesus' worst days were far better than muhammeds best. Thanks for that

So you're a fan of the "lesser evil" then? How very liberal of you.

No. I don't consider Jesus evil at all.
And your list of 'wrongs' have helped clarify that for me. So thanks.

And they don't consider Muhammad evil, which makes you................................................................................................................the same.

That's the problem.

That is a problem alright, the problem of religion, all of them.

No, Jesus wasn't evil, so there is no requirement for His followers to recognise evil in Him. It's isn't there.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The Christians didn't kill people? As for the pigs, just because we eat them doesn't mean Jesus had a right to kill what wasn't even his eh?

Now where did I say that?
That's right I didn't.
I'm not really concerned with your paltry list of Jesus' 'wrongs'. It's laughable.

I only needed one actually, to show imperfection.

You said wrongs. Now your saying imperfections. I don't think Jesus claimed to be perfect in his incarnation as a human, but even if he did, nothing you've said about his 'wrongs' are in any way alarming.

The lesser evil, as I said. And Jesus didn't claim to be perfect, or God for that matter, his supposed followers do.

No lesser evil. Jesus didn't do anything evil, muhammed did great evil. Geddit yet?

Killing trees and pigs, for the reasons he did, is evil, and The Prophet was, unlike the Christians, being true to his God.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

So you're a fan of the "lesser evil" then? How very liberal of you.

No. I don't consider Jesus evil at all.
And your list of 'wrongs' have helped clarify that for me. So thanks.

And they don't consider Muhammad evil, which makes you................................................................................................................the same.

That's the problem.

That is a problem alright, the problem of religion, all of them.

No, Jesus wasn't evil, so there is no requirement for His followers to recognise evil in Him. It's isn't there.

Pretty sure killing animals and trees for no reason is evil.

 

[Tilly]

Several. He had a bad temper including cursing a fig tree, killing pigs for no reason, disrupting Temple, rejecting his family, breaking the Sabbath, etc., And he was known as a lush and his teachings are all over the damn place and hard to align.

when did he kill innocent pigs? I have no recollection of this unfortunate
episode? ----the fig tree did not mind------fig trees always manage a STIFF UPPER LIP

Probably thinking of banishing demons from a person into some pigs near by.

Pigs aren't required for said process. He was just showing off, and killing innocent animals.

How do you know? Lol.

It's in the NT. Read it.

I have read it. I'm questioning your belief that you are some kind of expert in exorcism and know what is or is not required. Lol.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

when did he kill innocent pigs? I have no recollection of this unfortunate
episode? ----the fig tree did not mind------fig trees always manage a STIFF UPPER LIP

Probably thinking of banishing demons from a person into some pigs near by.

Pigs aren't required for said process. He was just showing off, and killing innocent animals.

How do you know? Lol.

It's in the NT. Read it.

I have read it. I'm questioning your belief that you are some kind of expert in exorcism and know what is or is not required. Lol.

Since Jesus performed exorcisms without pigs, pretty sure he didn't need them. As I said, he was just showing off.

 

[Tilly]

No. I don't consider Jesus evil at all.
And your list of 'wrongs' have helped clarify that for me. So thanks.

And they don't consider Muhammad evil, which makes you................................................................................................................the same.

That's the problem.

That is a problem alright, the problem of religion, all of them.

No, Jesus wasn't evil, so there is no requirement for His followers to recognise evil in Him. It's isn't there.

Pretty sure killing animals and trees for no reason is evil.

Well you carry on getting your panties in a twist over it, then

 

[Tilly]

Probably thinking of banishing demons from a person into some pigs near by.

Pigs aren't required for said process. He was just showing off, and killing innocent animals.

How do you know? Lol.

It's in the NT. Read it.

I have read it. I'm questioning your belief that you are some kind of expert in exorcism and know what is or is not required. Lol.

Since Jesus performed exorcisms without pigs, pretty sure he didn't need them. As I said, he was just showing off.

I'm sure circumstances dictated the best use of available resources. How's that?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

And they don't consider Muhammad evil, which makes you................................................................................................................the same.

That's the problem.

That is a problem alright, the problem of religion, all of them.

No, Jesus wasn't evil, so there is no requirement for His followers to recognise evil in Him. It's isn't there.

Pretty sure killing animals and trees for no reason is evil.

Well you carry on getting your panties in a twist over it, then

I'm not at all twisted about it, just enjoying your Jesus' shit didn't stink routine.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I'm sure circumstances dictated the best use of available resources. How's that?

Killing the animals of another when such a thing was unnecessary? Nope.