Religious Freedom Reestablished!

[Hollie]

....wait a moment, while I put down my guns and religious texts….

1. "....you missed the part of Christianity not being mentioned in the constitution."
You know Jesus is referenced at the close of Article VII.
So...I've reduced you to fibbing?

2. " we’re laughing at you, not with you."

"We"?

You have a tapeworm?



3. " Man was never an ape."

Look at that! I've got you moving in the right direction!
Don't stop now!


4. I can be even more helpful....here's a style hint:
Your clichés were old when you were a kid! Next, you’ll tell me to ‘look before you leap!’

a. I was puzzled when you wrote "...“evilutionary” biology."
Is it that you don't now how to spell....or was there some joke implied with the 'evil' part?

Oh....right...you're not smart enough to have a sense of humor....so you can't spell.
Maybe I'm just making you nervous.
Relax.


5. OK....can I call you Folly?.....Folly-

Remember, my posts: Pay-per-view!

Your posts: Pay-per-weight.



Write soon, y'hear?

I'm glad I was able to assist you regarding your ignorant (but quaint), view of evolutionary biology. Yes, much of science will conflict with what was taught at your madrasah but remember I'm here to help.

Speaking of helping you, did you realize you high jacked your own thread in desperate attempts to avoid addressing your false and ignorant claims, bad analogies and incorrect assumptions?

You should try out for the U.S. Olympic swim team - the Backstroke.

Let's be honest....and I mean this in only the kindest way.....you're a clown.

And, in reality you are a great help.....in the area of comic relief!


I know I'm taking advantage....but, I get such a kick out of making you jump through hoops just by mentioning anything related to religion.

I say 'watch this...." and make you sputter and try to smear religion and religious folk....
I know I shouldn't....but I can't resist.


Would you like me to say a prayer for you?
(Jump, Folly, Jump!)



I can see you have the destiny to be a Geraldo Special.
I sure hope you don't forget us little folk when the sympathy bucks come rolling in!
It'll be a real tear-jerker.



OK...I don't want to keep you....you probably have to get back to that high-stress job at Dairy Queen.

What a shame that you don't have the courage to defend your claims. I suppose when your claims are frauds, it's a bit difficult to offer any meaningful defense. However, how interesting that you have abandoned them all as you have had to make efforts to sidestep and avoid your back peddling.

Oh, I though I would provide you a link to an article in connection with the fraud and charlatan David Berlinski you are in thrall to. He's featured prominently in the "Encyclopedia of American Loons", as are so many Christian creationist snake oil salesmen.

Honestly, shouldn't you be trying to revise your earlier posts in the hope that not too many people have read your drivel?

#24: David Berlinski

Encyclopedia of American Loons: Search results for Berlinski

Berlinski is one of the movers and shakers of the contemporary creationist movement, associated with the Discovery Institute and one of their most frequent and famous debaters. A delusional, pompous narcissist with an ego to fit a medieval pope. Also a name-dropper (most of his talks concern important people he has talked to). A comment on one of his lunatic self-aggrandizing rants can be found here: Disco. ?tute: Evolution is a ?terrifying cripple,? ?bang[ing] its crutches through…Hell? ? Thoughts from Kansas (sums up this guy pretty well):

He is apparently really angry at evolution (it is unclear why), and famous for his purely enumerative “cows cannot evolve into whales” argument.

Berlinski was once a moderately respected author of popular-science books on mathematics. He can still add numbers together, but has forgotten the GIGO rule (“garbage in, garbage out") of applied mathematics. Some of his rantings are discussed here.

Likes to play ‘the skeptic’ (which means denialism in this case, and that is not the same thing).

Diagnosis: Boneheaded, pompous and arrogant nitwit; has a lot of influence, and a frequent participator in debates, since apparently the Discovery Institute thinks that’s the way scientific disputes are settled (although he often takes a surprisingly moderate view in debates, leading some to suspect that he is really a cynical fraud rather than a loon).

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'm glad I was able to assist you regarding your ignorant (but quaint), view of evolutionary biology. Yes, much of science will conflict with what was taught at your madrasah but remember I'm here to help.

Speaking of helping you, did you realize you high jacked your own thread in desperate attempts to avoid addressing your false and ignorant claims, bad analogies and incorrect assumptions?

You should try out for the U.S. Olympic swim team - the Backstroke.

Let's be honest....and I mean this in only the kindest way.....you're a clown.

And, in reality you are a great help.....in the area of comic relief!


I know I'm taking advantage....but, I get such a kick out of making you jump through hoops just by mentioning anything related to religion.

I say 'watch this...." and make you sputter and try to smear religion and religious folk....
I know I shouldn't....but I can't resist.


Would you like me to say a prayer for you?
(Jump, Folly, Jump!)



I can see you have the destiny to be a Geraldo Special.
I sure hope you don't forget us little folk when the sympathy bucks come rolling in!
It'll be a real tear-jerker.



OK...I don't want to keep you....you probably have to get back to that high-stress job at Dairy Queen.

What a shame that you don't have the courage to defend your claims. I suppose when your claims are frauds, it's a bit difficult to offer any meaningful defense. However, how interesting that you have abandoned them all as you have had to make efforts to sidestep and avoid your back peddling.

Oh, I though I would provide you a link to an article in connection with the fraud and charlatan David Berlinski you are in thrall to. He's featured prominently in the "Encyclopedia of American Loons", as are so many Christian creationist snake oil salesmen.

Honestly, shouldn't you be trying to revise your earlier posts in the hope that not too many people have read your drivel?

#24: David Berlinski

Encyclopedia of American Loons: Search results for Berlinski

Berlinski is one of the movers and shakers of the contemporary creationist movement, associated with the Discovery Institute and one of their most frequent and famous debaters. A delusional, pompous narcissist with an ego to fit a medieval pope. Also a name-dropper (most of his talks concern important people he has talked to). A comment on one of his lunatic self-aggrandizing rants can be found here: Disco. ?tute: Evolution is a ?terrifying cripple,? ?bang[ing] its crutches through…Hell? ? Thoughts from Kansas (sums up this guy pretty well):

He is apparently really angry at evolution (it is unclear why), and famous for his purely enumerative “cows cannot evolve into whales” argument.

Berlinski was once a moderately respected author of popular-science books on mathematics. He can still add numbers together, but has forgotten the GIGO rule (“garbage in, garbage out") of applied mathematics. Some of his rantings are discussed here.

Likes to play ‘the skeptic’ (which means denialism in this case, and that is not the same thing).

Diagnosis: Boneheaded, pompous and arrogant nitwit; has a lot of influence, and a frequent participator in debates, since apparently the Discovery Institute thinks that’s the way scientific disputes are settled (although he often takes a surprisingly moderate view in debates, leading some to suspect that he is really a cynical fraud rather than a loon).

"What a shame that you don't have the courage to defend your claims."

OMG.

You claimed that there is no reference to Christianity in the Constitution....just a few posts back.

I replied....Article VII.


"What a shame that you don't have the courage to defend your claims."




What a dunce you are.


Which are you better at, telling the truth, or speaking Swahili? How are those lessons coming along?

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'm glad I was able to assist you regarding your ignorant (but quaint), view of evolutionary biology. Yes, much of science will conflict with what was taught at your madrasah but remember I'm here to help.

Speaking of helping you, did you realize you high jacked your own thread in desperate attempts to avoid addressing your false and ignorant claims, bad analogies and incorrect assumptions?

You should try out for the U.S. Olympic swim team - the Backstroke.

Let's be honest....and I mean this in only the kindest way.....you're a clown.

And, in reality you are a great help.....in the area of comic relief!


I know I'm taking advantage....but, I get such a kick out of making you jump through hoops just by mentioning anything related to religion.

I say 'watch this...." and make you sputter and try to smear religion and religious folk....
I know I shouldn't....but I can't resist.


Would you like me to say a prayer for you?
(Jump, Folly, Jump!)



I can see you have the destiny to be a Geraldo Special.
I sure hope you don't forget us little folk when the sympathy bucks come rolling in!
It'll be a real tear-jerker.



OK...I don't want to keep you....you probably have to get back to that high-stress job at Dairy Queen.

What a shame that you don't have the courage to defend your claims. I suppose when your claims are frauds, it's a bit difficult to offer any meaningful defense. However, how interesting that you have abandoned them all as you have had to make efforts to sidestep and avoid your back peddling.

Oh, I though I would provide you a link to an article in connection with the fraud and charlatan David Berlinski you are in thrall to. He's featured prominently in the "Encyclopedia of American Loons", as are so many Christian creationist snake oil salesmen.

Honestly, shouldn't you be trying to revise your earlier posts in the hope that not too many people have read your drivel?

#24: David Berlinski

Encyclopedia of American Loons: Search results for Berlinski

Berlinski is one of the movers and shakers of the contemporary creationist movement, associated with the Discovery Institute and one of their most frequent and famous debaters. A delusional, pompous narcissist with an ego to fit a medieval pope. Also a name-dropper (most of his talks concern important people he has talked to). A comment on one of his lunatic self-aggrandizing rants can be found here: Disco. ?tute: Evolution is a ?terrifying cripple,? ?bang[ing] its crutches through…Hell? ? Thoughts from Kansas (sums up this guy pretty well):

He is apparently really angry at evolution (it is unclear why), and famous for his purely enumerative “cows cannot evolve into whales” argument.

Berlinski was once a moderately respected author of popular-science books on mathematics. He can still add numbers together, but has forgotten the GIGO rule (“garbage in, garbage out") of applied mathematics. Some of his rantings are discussed here.

Likes to play ‘the skeptic’ (which means denialism in this case, and that is not the same thing).

Diagnosis: Boneheaded, pompous and arrogant nitwit; has a lot of influence, and a frequent participator in debates, since apparently the Discovery Institute thinks that’s the way scientific disputes are settled (although he often takes a surprisingly moderate view in debates, leading some to suspect that he is really a cynical fraud rather than a loon).

Wow...your fellow loons are just as fearful of Dr. Berlinski as you are!

He's actually a pretty substantial guy in science.....just doesn't accept the dogma that you do.

You left out some of his accomplishments:

"Berlinski was a research assistant in molecular biology at Columbia University,[3] and was a research fellow at the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis (IIASA) in Austria and the Institut des Hautes Études Scientifiques (IHES) in France. He has taught philosophy, mathematics, and English at Stanford, Rutgers, the City University of New York, the University of Washington, the University of Puget Sound, San Jose State University, the University of Santa Clara, the University of San Francisco, San Francisco State University, and taught mathematics at the Université de Paris.[clarification needed] [4][better source needed] [5]

Berlinski has written works on systems analysis, the history of differential topology, analytic philosophy, and the philosophy of mathematics. Berlinski has authored books for the general public on mathematics and the history of mathematics. These include A Tour of the Calculus (1997) on calculus, The Advent of the Algorithm (2000) on algorithms, Newton's Gift (2000) on Isaac Newton, and Infinite Ascent: A Short History of Mathematics (2005). Another book, The Secrets of the Vaulted Sky (2003), compares astrological and evolutionary[disputed – discuss] accounts of human behavior.[citation needed] In Black Mischief, Berlinski wrote “Our paper became a monograph. When we had completed the details, we rewrote everything so that no one could tell how we came upon our ideas or why. This is the standard in mathematics.”[6][better source needed]"
David Berlinski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[freedombecki]

Those who respect the Constitution understand the meaning of the Free Exercise Clause, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."
Governor Perry of Texas certainly does...


1. "Texas Gov. Rick Perry signs ‘Merry Christmas bill’ into law

2.Schools will now be able to display religious symbols as long as at least one secular or other religion’s symbol is also displayed.

3. ....allows schools to display religious symbols such as nativity scenes and Christmas trees ...

4. In addition, the new law allows staff members and students at the state’s public schools to exchange traditional holiday greetings, such as “Merry Christmas,” “Happy Hanukkah” and “happy holidays” without fear of reprisal.

5. ....I'm proud that we're standing up for religious freedom in this state,” Perry said at a “Religious freedom does not mean freedom from religion.”

6. “We will be monitoring this very closely,” Tom Hargins, director of communications for the ACLU of Texas, told the Daily News.

7. In May, a Texas judge ruled that the cheerleaders could continue to display signs at football games emblazoned with Bible verses.

8. Perry cited the case as “an example of the pressure on our public schools in particular to push down any reflections of religious thought or words,”..."
Texas Gov. Rick Perry signs ?Merry Christmas bill? into law - NY Daily News

Can I get an "Amen"!!!

I thought the Constitution was clear on freedom of religion when I was growing up. I think a lot of anarchists have a pony in the show to force the hand of those who interpret the law, and I'm sorry it has to be lined out for them by further legislation to prevent expensive lawsuits against schools in the Friendship State and others.

 

[Agent.Tom]

Someone seriously referenced this "Encyclopedia of Loons" text as if it was a legitimate source of information? Just the few parts Hollie bothered to quote were riddled with completely immature name-calling and character assassination, and nothing but jaded opinion to back anything up. Anyone who could suffer through a big pile of shallow, puerile garbage like that--let alone reference it as a definitive resource in debate--instantly drops to zero credibility and is completely undeserving of even the slightest shred of respect.

 

[freedombecki]

Someone seriously referenced this "Encyclopedia of Loons" text as if it was a legitimate source of information? Just the few parts Hollie bothered to quote were riddled with completely immature name-calling and character assassination, and nothing but jaded opinion to back anything up. Anyone who could suffer through a big pile of shallow, puerile garbage like that--let alone reference it as a definitive resource in debate--instantly drops to zero credibility and is completely undeserving of even the slightest shred of respect.

The discussion was the much-unread Article VII which ends with the following bolded, blue words (before signatures):
Article. VII.

The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.
The Word, "the," being interlined between the seventh and eighth Lines of the first Page, the Word "Thirty" being partly written on an Erazure in the fifteenth Line of the first Page, The Words "is tried" being interlined between the thirty second and thirty third Lines of the first Page and the Word "the" being interlined between the forty third and forty fourth Lines of the second Page.
Attest William Jackson Secretary
done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,
G°. Washington
Presidt and deputy from Virginia
Delaware
Geo: Read
Gunning Bedford jun
John Dickinson
Richard Bassett
Jaco: Broom
Maryland
James McHenry
Dan of St Thos. Jenifer
Danl. Carroll
Virginia
John Blair
James Madison Jr.
North Carolina
Wm. Blount
Richd. Dobbs Spaight
Hu Williamson
South Carolina
J. Rutledge
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
Charles Pinckney
Pierce Butler
Georgia
William Few
Abr Baldwin
New Hampshire
John Langdon
Nicholas Gilman
Massachusetts
Nathaniel Gorham
Rufus King
Connecticut
Wm. Saml. Johnson
Roger Sherman
New York
Alexander Hamilton
New Jersey
Wil: Livingston
David Brearley
Wm. Paterson
Jona: Dayton
Pennsylvania
B Franklin
Thomas Mifflin
Robt. Morris
Geo. Clymer
Thos. FitzSimons
Jared Ingersoll
James Wilson
Gouv Morris

Snipped from: Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

That, in my humble opinion was a Christian reference to American founders (who agreed by signing) if ever I saw one.

 

[nitroz]

Religious freedom can only take place if you have freedom from religion.

Too many intolerant christians in office refuse to understand that.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Someone seriously referenced this "Encyclopedia of Loons" text as if it was a legitimate source of information? Just the few parts Hollie bothered to quote were riddled with completely immature name-calling and character assassination, and nothing but jaded opinion to back anything up. Anyone who could suffer through a big pile of shallow, puerile garbage like that--let alone reference it as a definitive resource in debate--instantly drops to zero credibility and is completely undeserving of even the slightest shred of respect.

The discussion was the much-unread Article VII which ends with the following bolded, blue words (before signatures):
Article. VII.

The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.
The Word, "the," being interlined between the seventh and eighth Lines of the first Page, the Word "Thirty" being partly written on an Erazure in the fifteenth Line of the first Page, The Words "is tried" being interlined between the thirty second and thirty third Lines of the first Page and the Word "the" being interlined between the forty third and forty fourth Lines of the second Page.
Attest William Jackson Secretary
done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,
G°. Washington
Presidt and deputy from Virginia
Delaware
Geo: Read
Gunning Bedford jun
John Dickinson
Richard Bassett
Jaco: Broom
Maryland
James McHenry
Dan of St Thos. Jenifer
Danl. Carroll
Virginia
John Blair
James Madison Jr.
North Carolina
Wm. Blount
Richd. Dobbs Spaight
Hu Williamson
South Carolina
J. Rutledge
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
Charles Pinckney
Pierce Butler
Georgia
William Few
Abr Baldwin
New Hampshire
John Langdon
Nicholas Gilman
Massachusetts
Nathaniel Gorham
Rufus King
Connecticut
Wm. Saml. Johnson
Roger Sherman
New York
Alexander Hamilton
New Jersey
Wil: Livingston
David Brearley
Wm. Paterson
Jona: Dayton
Pennsylvania
B Franklin
Thomas Mifflin
Robt. Morris
Geo. Clymer
Thos. FitzSimons
Jared Ingersoll
James Wilson
Gouv Morris

Snipped from: Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

That, in my humble opinion was a Christian reference to American founders (who agreed by signing) if ever I saw one.

Custom is not the same thing as belief. Essentially you are claiming that 100% of the US population must be Christians because they all spend currency that has the term "In God We Trust" on it. Does a Hindi, Buddhist or Wiccan "agree" simply because they spent that money?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Someone seriously referenced this "Encyclopedia of Loons" text as if it was a legitimate source of information? Just the few parts Hollie bothered to quote were riddled with completely immature name-calling and character assassination, and nothing but jaded opinion to back anything up. Anyone who could suffer through a big pile of shallow, puerile garbage like that--let alone reference it as a definitive resource in debate--instantly drops to zero credibility and is completely undeserving of even the slightest shred of respect.

The discussion was the much-unread Article VII which ends with the following bolded, blue words (before signatures):
Article. VII.

The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.
The Word, "the," being interlined between the seventh and eighth Lines of the first Page, the Word "Thirty" being partly written on an Erazure in the fifteenth Line of the first Page, The Words "is tried" being interlined between the thirty second and thirty third Lines of the first Page and the Word "the" being interlined between the forty third and forty fourth Lines of the second Page.
Attest William Jackson Secretary
done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,
G°. Washington
Presidt and deputy from Virginia
Delaware
Geo: Read
Gunning Bedford jun
John Dickinson
Richard Bassett
Jaco: Broom
Maryland
James McHenry
Dan of St Thos. Jenifer
Danl. Carroll
Virginia
John Blair
James Madison Jr.
North Carolina
Wm. Blount
Richd. Dobbs Spaight
Hu Williamson
South Carolina
J. Rutledge
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
Charles Pinckney
Pierce Butler
Georgia
William Few
Abr Baldwin
New Hampshire
John Langdon
Nicholas Gilman
Massachusetts
Nathaniel Gorham
Rufus King
Connecticut
Wm. Saml. Johnson
Roger Sherman
New York
Alexander Hamilton
New Jersey
Wil: Livingston
David Brearley
Wm. Paterson
Jona: Dayton
Pennsylvania
B Franklin
Thomas Mifflin
Robt. Morris
Geo. Clymer
Thos. FitzSimons
Jared Ingersoll
James Wilson
Gouv Morris

Snipped from: Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

That, in my humble opinion was a Christian reference to American founders (who agreed by signing) if ever I saw one.

Custom is not the same thing as belief. Essentially you are claiming that 100% of the US population must be Christians because they all spend currency that has the term "In God We Trust" on it. Does a Hindi, Buddhist or Wiccan "agree" simply because they spent that money?

But you cannot deny that it is there.....can you.


And, you do know that the language in the document went through several careful readings, and editing by Gouverneur Morris..." He is widely credited as the author of the document's preamble, and has been called the "Penman of the Constitution."
Documents from the Constitutional Convention and the Continental Congress at the Library of Congress

 

[Immanuel]

Religious freedom can only take place if you have freedom from religion.

Too many intolerant christians in office refuse to understand that.

As a Christian I cannot disagree with either of those two points.

Immie

 

[PoliticalChic]

Religious freedom can only take place if you have freedom from religion.

Too many intolerant christians in office refuse to understand that.

As a Christian I cannot disagree with either of those two points.

Immie

Then, 'as a Christian', would you explain what 'freedom from religion' means?

 

[Immanuel]

Religious freedom can only take place if you have freedom from religion.

Too many intolerant christians in office refuse to understand that.

As a Christian I cannot disagree with either of those two points.

Immie

Then, 'as a Christian', would you explain what 'freedom from religion' means?

It means the right not to choose any faith. It does NOT mean you have the right to never encounter religion or religious people. You have the right not to be "religious". You do not have the right to force this decision upon everyone you encounter while they are in your presence. IMHO

Immie

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Religious freedom can only take place if you have freedom from religion.

Too many intolerant christians in office refuse to understand that.

This is even dumber than claiming that praying during a football game means the state is sponsoring a religion.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

As a Christian I cannot disagree with either of those two points.

Immie

Then, 'as a Christian', would you explain what 'freedom from religion' means?

It means the right not to choose any faith. It does NOT mean you have the right to never encounter religion or religious people. You have the right not to be "religious". You do not have the right to force this decision upon everyone you encounter while they are in your presence. IMHO

Immie

That is freedom of religion, because, in essence, religion is what you believe. If you choose not to believe in any gods you still believe, and thus need freedom of religion. I really do not see why that is so hard for some people to grasp, is it because everyone thinks religion means believing in a god? If we really had freedom from religion no one would be able to express their beliefs in any context at all.

Although there are intolerant Christians aplenty, the greatest danger to our freedom of religion are intolerant non theists.

 

[Agit8r]

Those who respect the Constitution understand the meaning of the Free Exercise Clause, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."
Governor Perry of Texas certainly does...


1. "Texas Gov. Rick Perry signs ‘Merry Christmas bill’ into law

2.Schools will now be able to display religious symbols as long as at least one secular or other religion’s symbol is also displayed.

3. ....allows schools to display religious symbols such as nativity scenes and Christmas trees ...

4. In addition, the new law allows staff members and students at the state’s public schools to exchange traditional holiday greetings, such as “Merry Christmas,” “Happy Hanukkah” and “happy holidays” without fear of reprisal.




5. ....I'm proud that we're standing up for religious freedom in this state,” Perry said at a “Religious freedom does not mean freedom from religion.”

6. “We will be monitoring this very closely,” Tom Hargins, director of communications for the ACLU of Texas, told the Daily News.

7. In May, a Texas judge ruled that the cheerleaders could continue to display signs at football games emblazoned with Bible verses.

8. Perry cited the case as “an example of the pressure on our public schools in particular to push down any reflections of religious thought or words,”..."
Texas Gov. Rick Perry signs ?Merry Christmas bill? into law - NY Daily News



Can I get an "Amen"!!!

"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind." -- Romans 14:5

Obviously Rick Perry doesn't follow the bible. Of course we all knew that when he kept babbling on like the pagans do, for he wished to be heard for his many words... but of course his devotees are just as ignorant as he is.

 

[Immanuel]

Then, 'as a Christian', would you explain what 'freedom from religion' means?

It means the right not to choose any faith. It does NOT mean you have the right to never encounter religion or religious people. You have the right not to be "religious". You do not have the right to force this decision upon everyone you encounter while they are in your presence. IMHO

Immie

That is freedom of religion, because, in essence, religion is what you believe. If you choose not to believe in any gods you still believe, and thus need freedom of religion. I really do not see why that is so hard for some people to grasp, is it because everyone thinks religion means believing in a god? If we really had freedom from religion no one would be able to express their beliefs in any context at all.

Although there are intolerant Christians aplenty, the greatest danger to our freedom of religion are intolerant non theists.

I would have to disagree. People are free not to choose to hold any religious beliefs. Although, both you and I would consider such holding to be a religion in and of itself... a faith so to speak, it is still as close as one can get to freedom from religion.

This idea that these atheists have that they can force everyone around them to conform to their will does not exist. They have a right to choose not to follow any god at all. They do not have the right to silence those around them in regards to the expression of faith.

Similarly, freedom of speech grants (within limits) that one must subject him or herself to the freedom of others to say what they want to say. It does not grant the receiver of the message the right to say,"I do not like what you are saying, therefore you can say it but you cannot say it in my presence".

If we are going to defend the freedom of religion, we must also defend the freedom "from" religion in that someone has the right to choose not to believe in any god at all.

Atheists have the right to believe they have no faith even though they continually express their faith that god does not exist and continually express that faith every time they tell us God is a myth. They would like to make it so that they are the only ones with the legal right to express their faith. They would like to be the only ones who can legally proselytize and constantly bastardize the first amendment when they claim the separation of church and state guarantees them the right not to hear about another person's faith.

There most assuredly is a separation of church and state, but separation is not the elimination of one or the other.

Immie

 

[Derideo_Te]

Snipped from: Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

That, in my humble opinion was a Christian reference to American founders (who agreed by signing) if ever I saw one.

Custom is not the same thing as belief. Essentially you are claiming that 100% of the US population must be Christians because they all spend currency that has the term "In God We Trust" on it. Does a Hindi, Buddhist or Wiccan "agree" simply because they spent that money?

But you cannot deny that it is there.....can you.


And, you do know that the language in the document went through several careful readings, and editing by Gouverneur Morris..." He is widely credited as the author of the document's preamble, and has been called the "Penman of the Constitution."
Documents from the Constitutional Convention and the Continental Congress at the Library of Congress

Just as you cannot claim that it was anything more than the custom of the day and in no way establishes the religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Custom is not the same thing as belief. Essentially you are claiming that 100% of the US population must be Christians because they all spend currency that has the term "In God We Trust" on it. Does a Hindi, Buddhist or Wiccan "agree" simply because they spent that money?

But you cannot deny that it is there.....can you.


And, you do know that the language in the document went through several careful readings, and editing by Gouverneur Morris..." He is widely credited as the author of the document's preamble, and has been called the "Penman of the Constitution."
Documents from the Constitutional Convention and the Continental Congress at the Library of Congress

Just as you cannot claim that it was anything more than the custom of the day and in no way establishes the religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers.

You should open a history book once in a while.
Then you'd sound like less of a dunce.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian.
“52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” David Limbaugh

Believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known today, “an extremist Fundementalist hate group.”

 

[Derideo_Te]

But you cannot deny that it is there.....can you.


And, you do know that the language in the document went through several careful readings, and editing by Gouverneur Morris..." He is widely credited as the author of the document's preamble, and has been called the "Penman of the Constitution."
Documents from the Constitutional Convention and the Continental Congress at the Library of Congress

Just as you cannot claim that it was anything more than the custom of the day and in no way establishes the religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers.

You should open a history book once in a while.
Then you'd sound like less of a dunce.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian.
“52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” David Limbaugh

Believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known today, “an extremist Fundementalist hate group.”

So the "Christian" thing to do when your claim is exposed as spurious at best is to use puerile slurs? Then you compound it by insulting the French without whose aid and support this nation would still be a British colony. How is this working out for you when it comes to winning friends and influencing people?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Just as you cannot claim that it was anything more than the custom of the day and in no way establishes the religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers.

You should open a history book once in a while.
Then you'd sound like less of a dunce.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian.
“52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” David Limbaugh

Believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known today, “an extremist Fundementalist hate group.”

So the "Christian" thing to do when your claim is exposed as spurious at best is to use puerile slurs? Then you compound it by insulting the French without whose aid and support this nation would still be a British colony. How is this working out for you when it comes to winning friends and influencing people?

Some idiot wrote " in no way establishes the religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers."
Oh....you're that idiot.

"...your claim is exposed as spurious..."
You've exposed nothing except your ignorance....

So....we have to add liar to your resume.

The truth is my 'friend.'
I won't be jealous if you decide to embrace her.


"...puerile slurs?"
Your lesson today: I don't suffer fools gladly.