Remembering Robert E. Lee: American Patriot and Southern Hero

[Liminal]

Which shows that it was of no threat to the new Confederacy. Thanks for showing that. So the South fired on a harmless federal installation....why? To start a war they couldn't win. Pretty stupid....but not surprising.

Fort Sumter was at the heart of the central controversy between the North and South. Tariffs were imposed and collected from merchant ships entering the harbor. It was also a key hub for the blockade set up by the North. It's strategic value made it a high priority for seizure.

It seems all of this is news to you. Are you sure you want to keep revealing your ignorance of American history?

There was no blockade of any southern ports at the time Fort Sumter was attacked.

Yes there was.

I'm sorry but you are simply incorrect about that. In fact weapons from northern factories continued to be sent south to fill contracts for state militias right up until the attack on Fort Sumter.

Abraham Lincoln ordered the blockade on April 1, 1861, 2 weeks before the assault. So yes, I was correct.

Wrong, Lincoln ordered the blockade on April 19, 1861.

 

[Liminal]

Robert E. Lee was a great American. He deserves a holiday

CIVIL WAR OP-ED Remembering Robert E. Lee American Patriot and Southern Hero Huntington News

Sir Winston Churchill called General Robert E. Lee, “one of the noblest Americans who ever lived.”

Please let me call to your attention that Monday, January 19, 2015, is the 208th birthday of Robert E. Lee, whose memory is still dear in the hearts of many Southerners. Why is this man so honored in the South and respected in the North? Lee was even respected by the soldiers of Union blue who fought against him during the War Between the States.

What is your community doing to commemorate the birthday of this great American?

General Lee’s portrait adorns the State Capitol in Atlanta where the Georgia Division Sons of Confederate Veterans hosted their 1st Lee birthday in 1988. The SCV will host their annual Robert E. Lee birthday celebration on Saturday January 17, 2015 at Georgia’s Old Secession Capitol on Greene Street in Milledgeville. Read more at: 2015 Annual Robert E Lee Birthday Celebration

During Robert E. Lee's 100th birthday in 1907, Charles Francis Adams, Jr., a former Union Commander and grandson of US President John Quincy Adams, spoke in tribute to Robert E. Lee at Washington and Lee College's Lee Chapel in Lexington, Virginia. His speech was printed in both Northern and Southern newspapers and is said to had lifted Lee to a renewed respect among the American people.

And In Lexington, Virginia events are scheduled for the birthday of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson on January 16th and 17th. Read more at: Home - Lee-Jackson Day Lexington VA

Dr. Edward C. Smith, respected African-American Professor of History at American University in Washington, D.C. , told the audience in Atlanta, Ga. during a 1995 Robert E. Lee birthday event, quote 'Dr. Martin Luther King and Robert E. Lee were individuals worthy of emulation because they understood history.' Unquote
​

A truly great American who just picked the wrong side.

Virginia wasn't the "wrong side" it was his home.

Too bad for him that his home was on the wrong side.

Yeah, too bad for the residents of Hiroshima that they chose the wrong place to live, right? Too bad for the residents of Belgium that they chose to live between German and France, eh? To bad for Jews who chose to live in Germany before the war, right?

Many southerners chose not to participate in rebellion.

 

[Geaux4it]

Without the railroads and industry, the union would have been toast.

-Geaux

 

[kaz]

how can you have the consent of the governed when the governed are forced to consent?

one word: elections

So you force them to stay in a union they don't want to be in, but call it consent when you outvote them? LOL, yeah, that's consent.

why don't you leave America?

Love liberal tolerance. Why don't you leave? China, North Korea are both still Communist.

 

[paperview]

how can you have the consent of the governed when the governed are forced to consent?

one word: elections

So you force them to stay in a union they don't want to be in, but call it consent when you outvote them? LOL, yeah, that's consent.

why don't you leave America?

Love liberal tolerance. Why don't you leave? China, North Korea are both still Communist.

Hey, chickie, you're the one saying you're being forced to stay here.

You're not. If you don't want people to suggest you leave, stop lying about being forced to live in the country and abide by our laws.

 

[DriftingSand]

USMB Republicans think he must have been a Democrat since he fought to keep slavery. They think that it was Democratic liberals who owned slaves and that Northern Republican Conservatives came in and freed the slaves. So clearly, being Republican, they must have been conservatives. It isn't clear why so many southerners today are conservative and so many northerners are liberal. They haven't managed to rewrite that part of history yet.
True Story.
And don't give me that shit that I'm making it up. Everyone here knows about all the posts that it was conservative Republicans who freed the slaves. They have been posted many times.

Let me break it to you, the Republican party initially was the more liberal, modernisation party of the North East... i.e Not Conservatives...

If you want a lesson in US political history

Lee was a great man. A true Statesman and brilliant military tactician. Too bad we didn't have more Robert E. Lees around these days.

You said: Too bad we didn't have more Robert E. Lees around these days.

We do. They are called "David Dukes without the baggage".

Robert E. Lee was a man of uncommon character. His equal doesn't exist anywhere today. Songs were made about him, monuments sculpted, and Army bases named after him. A worthless flea like you couldn't possibly insult him.

Fought to keep Slavery and Lost... That seems like an insult..

You're incorrect on your last point. Lee didn't fight to "keep slavery" but was actually opposed to it:

Robert E. Lee letter dated December 27, 1856:
There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy.

Robert E. Lee s Opinion Regarding Slavery

This is interesting in what he said, sounds like he is saying they are better off as slaves: The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence.

Firstly, Lee was living in an era where slavery was a fact of life in both the north and the south. We can cherry pick his statement and only focus on what we think he was saying or we can look at the whole of his statement and see that his hope was to end slavery and to help blacks become independent. We see by the highlighted areas that he considered slavery "an evil." He hoped "for better things" for the blacks and he felt that the influences of Christianity would lead to their "emancipation."

The reason I posted his statement was to respond to somebody who claimed that he was basically a warmonger who started the war to keep slavery. That's simply untrue.

 

[DriftingSand]

Real reasons for the War Between The States (slavery being low on the list):

CONFEDERATE AMERICAN PRIDE The 10 Causes of the War Between the States

 

[Camp]

Without the railroads and industry, the union would have been toast.

-Geaux

Duh

 

[Freewill]

USMB Republicans think he must have been a Democrat since he fought to keep slavery. They think that it was Democratic liberals who owned slaves and that Northern Republican Conservatives came in and freed the slaves. So clearly, being Republican, they must have been conservatives. It isn't clear why so many southerners today are conservative and so many northerners are liberal. They haven't managed to rewrite that part of history yet.
True Story.
And don't give me that shit that I'm making it up. Everyone here knows about all the posts that it was conservative Republicans who freed the slaves. They have been posted many times.

Let me break it to you, the Republican party initially was the more liberal, modernisation party of the North East... i.e Not Conservatives...

If you want a lesson in US political history

You said: Too bad we didn't have more Robert E. Lees around these days.

We do. They are called "David Dukes without the baggage".

Robert E. Lee was a man of uncommon character. His equal doesn't exist anywhere today. Songs were made about him, monuments sculpted, and Army bases named after him. A worthless flea like you couldn't possibly insult him.

Fought to keep Slavery and Lost... That seems like an insult..

You're incorrect on your last point. Lee didn't fight to "keep slavery" but was actually opposed to it:

Robert E. Lee letter dated December 27, 1856:
There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy.

Robert E. Lee s Opinion Regarding Slavery

This is interesting in what he said, sounds like he is saying they are better off as slaves: The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence.

Firstly, Lee was living in an era where slavery was a fact of life in both the north and the south. We can cherry pick his statement and only focus on what we think he was saying or we can look at the whole of his statement and see that his hope was to end slavery and to help blacks become independent. We see by the highlighted areas that he considered slavery "an evil." He hoped "for better things" for the blacks and he felt that the influences of Christianity would lead to their "emancipation."

The reason I posted his statement was to respond to somebody who claimed that he was basically a warmonger who started the war to keep slavery. That's simply untrue.

I don't think that pointing out a statement that tells us his true feelings about blacks is wrong. He obviously felt, because that is what he said, is that blacks were better off slaves then free in Africa. If some redneck said that today the left wing would pop a vein.

I don't really think Lee chose the South for any other reason then Virginia seceded. Which means that he put his love of Virginia over the bigger issue of slavery? Kind of like being the look out man for a bank robbery and arguing that they were guilty because he didn't rob the bank.

 

[paperview]

USMB Republicans think he must have been a Democrat since he fought to keep slavery. They think that it was Democratic liberals who owned slaves and that Northern Republican Conservatives came in and freed the slaves. So clearly, being Republican, they must have been conservatives. It isn't clear why so many southerners today are conservative and so many northerners are liberal. They haven't managed to rewrite that part of history yet.
True Story.
And don't give me that shit that I'm making it up. Everyone here knows about all the posts that it was conservative Republicans who freed the slaves. They have been posted many times.

Let me break it to you, the Republican party initially was the more liberal, modernisation party of the North East... i.e Not Conservatives...

If you want a lesson in US political history

You said: Too bad we didn't have more Robert E. Lees around these days.

We do. They are called "David Dukes without the baggage".

Robert E. Lee was a man of uncommon character. His equal doesn't exist anywhere today. Songs were made about him, monuments sculpted, and Army bases named after him. A worthless flea like you couldn't possibly insult him.

Fought to keep Slavery and Lost... That seems like an insult..

You're incorrect on your last point. Lee didn't fight to "keep slavery" but was actually opposed to it:

Robert E. Lee letter dated December 27, 1856:
There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy.

Robert E. Lee s Opinion Regarding Slavery

This is interesting in what he said, sounds like he is saying they are better off as slaves: The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence.

Firstly, Lee was living in an era where slavery was a fact of life in both the north and the south. We can cherry pick his statement and only focus on what we think he was saying or we can look at the whole of his statement and see that his hope was to end slavery and to help blacks become independent. We see by the highlighted areas that he considered slavery "an evil." He hoped "for better things" for the blacks and he felt that the influences of Christianity would lead to their "emancipation."

The reason I posted his statement was to respond to somebody who claimed that he was basically a warmonger who started the war to keep slavery. That's simply untrue.

Too bad Lee's own Christianity allowed him to keep slaves, pay an extra bounty for the runaways, administer harsh punishment to them, and those *Christian influences* of his had slaves waiting on him in the war he chose to fight to protect, preserve and expand
human bondage for the future generations.

 

[paperview]

Robert E. Lee.
His Brutality To His Slaves.

Let's hear from one of Lee's slaves on how benevolent he was::​

My name is Wesley Norris; I was born a slave on the plantation of George Parke Custis; after the death of Mr. Custis, Gen. Lee, who had been made executor of the estate, assumed control of the slaves, in number about seventy; it was the general impression among the slaves of Mr. Custis that on his death they should be forever free; in fact this statement had been made to them by Mr. C. years before; at his death we were informed by Gen. Lee that by the conditions of the will we must remain slaves for five years;

I remained with Gen. Lee for about seventeen months, when my sister Mary, a cousin of ours, and I determined to run away, which we did in the year 1859; we had already reached Westminster, in Maryland, on our way to the North, when we were apprehended and thrown into prison, and Gen. Lee notified of our arrest; we remained in prison fifteen days, when we were sent back to Arlington; we were immediately taken before Gen. Lee, who demanded the reason why we ran away; we frankly told him that we considered ourselves free;

he then told us he would teach us a lesson we never would forget; he then ordered us to the barn, where, in his presence, we were tied firmly to posts by a Mr. Gwin, our overseer, who was ordered by Gen. Lee to strip us to the waist and give us fifty lashes each, excepting my sister, who received but twenty; we were accordingly stripped to the skin by the overseer, who, however, had sufficient humanity to decline whipping us; accordingly Dick Williams, a county constable, was called in, who gave us the number of lashes ordered; Gen. Lee, in the meantime, stood by, and frequently enjoined Williams to lay it on well, an injunction which he did not fail to heed; not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh,

Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done. After this my cousin and myself were sent to Hanover Court-House jail, my sister being sent to Richmond to an agent to be hired; we remained in jail about a week, when we were sent to Nelson county, where we were hired out by Gen. Lee’s agent to work on the Orange and Alexander railroad; we remained thus employed for about seven months, and were then sent to Alabama, and put to work on what is known as the Northeastern railroad; in January, 1863, we were sent to Richmond, from which place I finally made my escape through the rebel lines to freedom; I have nothing further to say; what I have stated is true in every particular, and I can at any time bring at least a dozen witnesses, both white and black, to substantiate my statements: I am at present employed by the Government; and am at work in the National Cemetery on Arlington Heights, where I can be found by those who desire further particulars; my sister referred to is at present employed by the French Minister at Washington, and will confirm my statement."

Robert E. Lee His Brutality to His Slaves 1866 . By Wesley Norris in NATIONAL ANTI-SLAVERY STANDARD Vol. XXVI. No. 49 April 14 1866 . Whole No. 1 349 Fair Use Repository​

 

[Freewill]

Real reasons for the War Between The States (slavery being low on the list):

CONFEDERATE AMERICAN PRIDE The 10 Causes of the War Between the States

I didn't open your thread, sorry don't need to read more then the heading. Let's look at the first state to secede. The state that didn't have a large number of anti-secession men who went and fought for the Union as did the other slave states. The State where the war began when they attacked Fort Sumter. One would think they had a handle on what was at least their reason.

Adopted on 24 December 1860, the Declaration of Immediate Causes explained why the state of South Carolina seceded from the Union. The 7-page manuscript (also printed by the state printer, Evans & Cogswell) provided a constitutional argument for South Carolina’s right to secede from the Union and establish sovereignty as a “separate and independent State.” Because the northern states had disregarded the fourth article of the United States Constitution to return runaway slaves, the committee argued that the federal compact was “deliberately broken.” With the compact broken, the state of South Carolina justified its secession from the Union.

I would say all of those states that seceded I can do the same. Their very reasons, written by their own hand, spells out the reason and itis the economic hardship of ending slavery.

 

[Freewill]

USMB Republicans think he must have been a Democrat since he fought to keep slavery. They think that it was Democratic liberals who owned slaves and that Northern Republican Conservatives came in and freed the slaves. So clearly, being Republican, they must have been conservatives. It isn't clear why so many southerners today are conservative and so many northerners are liberal. They haven't managed to rewrite that part of history yet.
True Story.
And don't give me that shit that I'm making it up. Everyone here knows about all the posts that it was conservative Republicans who freed the slaves. They have been posted many times.

Let me break it to you, the Republican party initially was the more liberal, modernisation party of the North East... i.e Not Conservatives...

If you want a lesson in US political history

Robert E. Lee was a man of uncommon character. His equal doesn't exist anywhere today. Songs were made about him, monuments sculpted, and Army bases named after him. A worthless flea like you couldn't possibly insult him.

Fought to keep Slavery and Lost... That seems like an insult..

You're incorrect on your last point. Lee didn't fight to "keep slavery" but was actually opposed to it:

Robert E. Lee letter dated December 27, 1856:
There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy.

Robert E. Lee s Opinion Regarding Slavery

This is interesting in what he said, sounds like he is saying they are better off as slaves: The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence.

Firstly, Lee was living in an era where slavery was a fact of life in both the north and the south. We can cherry pick his statement and only focus on what we think he was saying or we can look at the whole of his statement and see that his hope was to end slavery and to help blacks become independent. We see by the highlighted areas that he considered slavery "an evil." He hoped "for better things" for the blacks and he felt that the influences of Christianity would lead to their "emancipation."

The reason I posted his statement was to respond to somebody who claimed that he was basically a warmonger who started the war to keep slavery. That's simply untrue.

Too bad Lee's own Christianity allowed him to keep slaves, pay an extra bounty for the runaways, administer harsh punishment to them, and those *Christian influences* of his had slaves waiting on him in the war he chose to fight to protect, preserve and expand
human bondage for the future generations.

Good thing there were Christians that showed Lee the error of his ways. If it were up to the atheist and agnostics the black man would still be in chains.

The idiocy of what you state shows a lack of historical perspective that is breath taking. Lee didn't keep slaves because of his Christianity he kept them in spite of it. Whatever was his justification it was his and his alone.

 

[paperview]

Real reasons for the War Between The States (slavery being low on the list):

CONFEDERATE AMERICAN PRIDE The 10 Causes of the War Between the States

I didn't open your thread, sorry don't need to read more then the heading. Let's look at the first state to secede. The state that didn't have a large number of anti-secession men who went and fought for the Union as did the other slave states. The State where the war began when they attacked Fort Sumter. One would think they had a handle on what was at least their reason.

Adopted on 24 December 1860, the Declaration of Immediate Causes explained why the state of South Carolina seceded from the Union. The 7-page manuscript (also printed by the state printer, Evans & Cogswell) provided a constitutional argument for South Carolina’s right to secede from the Union and establish sovereignty as a “separate and independent State.” Because the northern states had disregarded the fourth article of the United States Constitution to return runaway slaves, the committee argued that the federal compact was “deliberately broken.” With the compact broken, the state of South Carolina justified its secession from the Union.

I would say all of those states that seceded I can do the same. There very reasons, written by their own hand, spells out the reason and itis the economic hardship of ending slavery.

His source is confederateamericanpride.com.with the rebel battle flag waving proudly. lol

Lost Causers are such a hoot.

 

[Freewill]

Robert E. Lee.
His Brutality To His Slaves.

Let's hear from one of Lee's slaves on how benevolent he was::​

My name is Wesley Norris; I was born a slave on the plantation of George Parke Custis; after the death of Mr. Custis, Gen. Lee, who had been made executor of the estate, assumed control of the slaves, in number about seventy; it was the general impression among the slaves of Mr. Custis that on his death they should be forever free; in fact this statement had been made to them by Mr. C. years before; at his death we were informed by Gen. Lee that by the conditions of the will we must remain slaves for five years;

I remained with Gen. Lee for about seventeen months, when my sister Mary, a cousin of ours, and I determined to run away, which we did in the year 1859; we had already reached Westminster, in Maryland, on our way to the North, when we were apprehended and thrown into prison, and Gen. Lee notified of our arrest; we remained in prison fifteen days, when we were sent back to Arlington; we were immediately taken before Gen. Lee, who demanded the reason why we ran away; we frankly told him that we considered ourselves free;

he then told us he would teach us a lesson we never would forget; he then ordered us to the barn, where, in his presence, we were tied firmly to posts by a Mr. Gwin, our overseer, who was ordered by Gen. Lee to strip us to the waist and give us fifty lashes each, excepting my sister, who received but twenty; we were accordingly stripped to the skin by the overseer, who, however, had sufficient humanity to decline whipping us; accordingly Dick Williams, a county constable, was called in, who gave us the number of lashes ordered; Gen. Lee, in the meantime, stood by, and frequently enjoined Williams to lay it on well, an injunction which he did not fail to heed; not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh,

Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done. After this my cousin and myself were sent to Hanover Court-House jail, my sister being sent to Richmond to an agent to be hired; we remained in jail about a week, when we were sent to Nelson county, where we were hired out by Gen. Lee’s agent to work on the Orange and Alexander railroad; we remained thus employed for about seven months, and were then sent to Alabama, and put to work on what is known as the Northeastern railroad; in January, 1863, we were sent to Richmond, from which place I finally made my escape through the rebel lines to freedom; I have nothing further to say; what I have stated is true in every particular, and I can at any time bring at least a dozen witnesses, both white and black, to substantiate my statements: I am at present employed by the Government; and am at work in the National Cemetery on Arlington Heights, where I can be found by those who desire further particulars; my sister referred to is at present employed by the French Minister at Washington, and will confirm my statement."

Robert E. Lee His Brutality to His Slaves 1866 . By Wesley Norris in NATIONAL ANTI-SLAVERY STANDARD Vol. XXVI. No. 49 April 14 1866 . Whole No. 1 349 Fair Use Repository​

Bottom line, Lee owned slaves and he fought for the side to preserve the practice.

 

[paperview]

Let me break it to you, the Republican party initially was the more liberal, modernisation party of the North East... i.e Not Conservatives...

If you want a lesson in US political history
Fought to keep Slavery and Lost... That seems like an insult..

You're incorrect on your last point. Lee didn't fight to "keep slavery" but was actually opposed to it:

Robert E. Lee letter dated December 27, 1856:
There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy.

Robert E. Lee s Opinion Regarding Slavery

This is interesting in what he said, sounds like he is saying they are better off as slaves: The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence.

Firstly, Lee was living in an era where slavery was a fact of life in both the north and the south. We can cherry pick his statement and only focus on what we think he was saying or we can look at the whole of his statement and see that his hope was to end slavery and to help blacks become independent. We see by the highlighted areas that he considered slavery "an evil." He hoped "for better things" for the blacks and he felt that the influences of Christianity would lead to their "emancipation."

The reason I posted his statement was to respond to somebody who claimed that he was basically a warmonger who started the war to keep slavery. That's simply untrue.

Too bad Lee's own Christianity allowed him to keep slaves, pay an extra bounty for the runaways, administer harsh punishment to them, and those *Christian influences* of his had slaves waiting on him in the war he chose to fight to protect, preserve and expand
human bondage for the future generations.

Good thing there were Christians that showed Lee the error of his ways. If it were up to the atheist and agnostics the black man would still be in chains.

The idiocy of what you state shows a lack of historical perspective that is breath taking. Lee didn't keep slaves because of his Christianity he kept them in spite of it. Whatever was his justification it was his and his alone.

The Northerners showed him the error of his ways by whipping the south's butt in a brutal war that was fought to preserve slavery.

Kept his slaves *in spite* of his Christianity. ha! Did he beat them in spite of his Christianity too?

 

[kaz]

how can you have the consent of the governed when the governed are forced to consent?

one word: elections

So you force them to stay in a union they don't want to be in, but call it consent when you outvote them? LOL, yeah, that's consent.

why don't you leave America?

Love liberal tolerance. Why don't you leave? China, North Korea are both still Communist.

Hey, chickie, you're the one saying you're being forced to stay here.

You're not. If you don't want people to suggest you leave, stop lying about being forced to live in the country and abide by our laws.

Strawman and begging the question. Wow, in a one liner you got two fallacies. Nicely done.

Once again, you show the rigid intolerance of the left. So are you a dick in real life, or do you just play one on message boards?

 

[kaz]

Robert E. Lee.
His Brutality To His Slaves.

Let's hear from one of Lee's slaves on how benevolent he was::​

My name is Wesley Norris; I was born a slave on the plantation of George Parke Custis; after the death of Mr. Custis, Gen. Lee, who had been made executor of the estate, assumed control of the slaves, in number about seventy; it was the general impression among the slaves of Mr. Custis that on his death they should be forever free; in fact this statement had been made to them by Mr. C. years before; at his death we were informed by Gen. Lee that by the conditions of the will we must remain slaves for five years;

I remained with Gen. Lee for about seventeen months, when my sister Mary, a cousin of ours, and I determined to run away, which we did in the year 1859; we had already reached Westminster, in Maryland, on our way to the North, when we were apprehended and thrown into prison, and Gen. Lee notified of our arrest; we remained in prison fifteen days, when we were sent back to Arlington; we were immediately taken before Gen. Lee, who demanded the reason why we ran away; we frankly told him that we considered ourselves free;

he then told us he would teach us a lesson we never would forget; he then ordered us to the barn, where, in his presence, we were tied firmly to posts by a Mr. Gwin, our overseer, who was ordered by Gen. Lee to strip us to the waist and give us fifty lashes each, excepting my sister, who received but twenty; we were accordingly stripped to the skin by the overseer, who, however, had sufficient humanity to decline whipping us; accordingly Dick Williams, a county constable, was called in, who gave us the number of lashes ordered; Gen. Lee, in the meantime, stood by, and frequently enjoined Williams to lay it on well, an injunction which he did not fail to heed; not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh,

Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done. After this my cousin and myself were sent to Hanover Court-House jail, my sister being sent to Richmond to an agent to be hired; we remained in jail about a week, when we were sent to Nelson county, where we were hired out by Gen. Lee’s agent to work on the Orange and Alexander railroad; we remained thus employed for about seven months, and were then sent to Alabama, and put to work on what is known as the Northeastern railroad; in January, 1863, we were sent to Richmond, from which place I finally made my escape through the rebel lines to freedom; I have nothing further to say; what I have stated is true in every particular, and I can at any time bring at least a dozen witnesses, both white and black, to substantiate my statements: I am at present employed by the Government; and am at work in the National Cemetery on Arlington Heights, where I can be found by those who desire further particulars; my sister referred to is at present employed by the French Minister at Washington, and will confirm my statement."

Robert E. Lee His Brutality to His Slaves 1866 . By Wesley Norris in NATIONAL ANTI-SLAVERY STANDARD Vol. XXVI. No. 49 April 14 1866 . Whole No. 1 349 Fair Use Repository​

Bottom line, Lee owned slaves and he fought for the side to preserve the practice.

Bottom line, since he was going with the North if Virginia didn't secede, that wasn't his motivation. He was fighting for his home, his State.

Paperview says your homes and families and community and business and property don't matter. He's an idiot.

 

[bodecea]

So you admit they fired first....ergo starting a war where no war existed beforehand. Sucks to be them....they started something they couldn't finish.

They offered the garrison commander a chance to surrender peacefully.

And any Army officer who surrenders federal forts.....you applaud, right?

When they're outgunned yes. The fort was still under construction and didn't possess the armaments to fend off a full scale seige. The cannon balls didn't have the needed point detonating fuses so they couldn't explode. What few shells they managed to fire were ineffective. Not taking the opportunity to surrender was a terrible mistake.

Which shows that it was of no threat to the new Confederacy. Thanks for showing that. So the South fired on a harmless federal installation....why? To start a war they couldn't win. Pretty stupid....but not surprising.

It was in the entrance to Charleston Harbor, moron.

And? If there had been no war started by the South, that would have meant nothing.

 

[kaz]

They offered the garrison commander a chance to surrender peacefully.

And any Army officer who surrenders federal forts.....you applaud, right?

When they're outgunned yes. The fort was still under construction and didn't possess the armaments to fend off a full scale seige. The cannon balls didn't have the needed point detonating fuses so they couldn't explode. What few shells they managed to fire were ineffective. Not taking the opportunity to surrender was a terrible mistake.

Which shows that it was of no threat to the new Confederacy. Thanks for showing that. So the South fired on a harmless federal installation....why? To start a war they couldn't win. Pretty stupid....but not surprising.

It was in the entrance to Charleston Harbor, moron.

And? If there had been no war started by the South, that would have meant nothing.

We believe in fighting wars that are just, you believe in fighting wars you can win. Who's the hawk? LOL.