Report: Level of poverty growing

[boedicca]

300 million +- people in the country. Not everyone can "make it". It's a matter of mathematics. You say that you made it, we'll have to take your word for it. But not everyone can.

When you allow those who have to exploit those who don't, you get wealth disparity and the lower class doesn't stand a chance. Sure, there are stories such as yours, but they are the exception. Most average people have just been thrown overboard by the system.

If you can't handle "Compassion" as an excuse to level the playing field, how about stability? When you have laissez faire capitalism, wealth concentration eventually leads to class revolution. The #1 component of a healthy, stable economy is a vibrant, large middle class.

Just something to chew on....

I don't understand what you mean by exploiting others?

I employ a number of salespeople
now. They are all on commission. Some of my people I pay about $2,000/week, I have one guy who is on food stamps, not because he doesn't have the skill, but because he is lazy.

In any case I provide livelihoods for a number of people. I have to pay quarterly taxes to the government which are in the five digits.

How is this exploitation?

My story probably is rare. Some people won't "make it" but all have a chance to "make it".

In my case I was a door to door salesman on commission only.

The best thing to do for poor people that are not lazy is to give them opportunities. The way they get opportunities is by allowing the people that create jobs the ability to create more jobs. Making it more expensive for them to do business has the opposite affect.

What exactly do you mean by "leveling the playing field"?

I don't believe in taking people down. It doesn't help you one bit if others are brought down. The only way you will profit is if more people are brought up.

I want everyone to go up.

Once again, I have the greatest sympathy for those who truely try and struggle. And of course I have nothing for sympathy that can't work.

The problem is that there is a very large chunk that don't try and will not take "anything" to survive. They would rather live off the government.

How many people do you know that would go door to door on commission only? I bet not many. I did, and I had a MBA.

You do what you need to do and you never know what it will lead to.

All your little personal stories are getting a little hard to accept. For all we know, you could be some zealot still sitting in that basement apartment picking your nose and eating Cheetos because you just got fired for being an asshole.

Wow. Hate much?

I've found from years of experience on the internets that those who are most inclined to accuse others of fakery are often themselves the biggest fakers.

Just sayin'.

 

[DiamondDave]

And again... taking care of that family, having that family, etc is YOUR responsibility... not he government's, not society's, not the employer's.. YOURS... you have the freedom to work a second or a 3rd job (I've done it)... you have the freedom to study... you have the freedom to train... you have the freedom to hone a skill.. you have the freedom to do all of these things.. leading to the freedom to succeed or fail, all on your own

Your bs has got to be the worse I've ever seen posted. FREEDOM doesn't put food on the table or a roof over your head or keep you healthy enough to go out and look for work!

Freedom and the concept of personal responsibility for one's own well being is not BS... but your attitude showing that you believe it is BS is very telling

Nobody is supposed to put food on your table but you
2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

Unlike what you whiny leftist entitlement junkies think... the only one responsible for you is YOU

 

[DiamondDave]

You and Dave keep skewing the debate. Nobody is talking about the "right" to become rich or the "freedom" allowed everybody to pursue whatever they define as success. What we're arguing is that there are millions of people who can never, ever afford to do anything to better their existence because of their lack of skill, education to develop that skill, and extra money to invest in that education. You seem to believe those are ridiculous considerations.

And that is a myth... COMPLETE and TOTAL myth... anyone can do what they need to do because of that freedom... we do not exist, the government does not exist, to do it for you or to take care of your personal responsibilities and needs when you fail....

You and your ILK choose to portray the 'poor' as helpless... not us

Your considerations are ridiculous when you think everyone else owes it to them as adults... charity to help, GREAT, that is VOLUNTARY and I support many.... forced wealth redistribution??Nope.. that is not in line with a free society

Such crap. With an arrogant, denigrating and insulting attitude like yours, I can just bet you voluntarily support charities. Someone like you would much prefer to prance around some soup kitchen and preach to the homeless. "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME"!!!

I support a local charity that provides training to mentally handicapped people so that they can obtain a job to support themselves, and they also help find roommates to share expenses
I support various medical charities close to my heart such as St. Jude's and ADA
I support a batter women's shelter that helps the women and their children get back on their feet after such a traumatic experience

When I have volunteered time with my kids... I certainly do not preach.... but I don't buy every 'woe is me' bullshit story and the claim by so many that they 'need' something... many confuse 'needy' with 'wanty' because many simply choose not to do what they have to do and would rather take the handout

 

[DiamondDave]

300 million +- people in the country. Not everyone can "make it". It's a matter of mathematics. You say that you made it, we'll have to take your word for it. But not everyone can.

When you allow those who have to exploit those who don't, you get wealth disparity and the lower class doesn't stand a chance. Sure, there are stories such as yours, but they are the exception. Most average people have just been thrown overboard by the system.

If you can't handle "Compassion" as an excuse to level the playing field, how about stability? When you have laissez faire capitalism, wealth concentration eventually leads to class revolution. The #1 component of a healthy, stable economy is a vibrant, large middle class.

Just something to chew on....

Something else to chew on

Not everyone will make it but anyone can make it
NO, "everyone" can not.

The government does not exist to protect against your personal failure
And they don't now.

Freedom comes with positives and negatives and that is still ultimately more desirable than some phony baloney system supposedly based on equalizing the outcome at the expense of freedom

I have my doubts you even now the true meaning of the word "freedom." In this country, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is an indoctrinated FREEDOM on its face. That some people are unable, for a number of reasons to be as fortunate as someone like you (some of which are spelled out for you here) is well, a fact of life.

Yes... ANYONE can claw their way out of a bad situation. ANYONE can be a success... it is your filthy ilk that keeps proclaiming that certain classes of people are helpless, YOU know what is best for them, and that only your mantra will save them from themselves

Only a very few people are truly unable.... and those generally are either wards of the state or committed by family...

You also seem to like to contribute success stories as 'lucky' or 'fortunate'... showing your smug liberal attitude.... because unless people are like you, it is luck that anything good happens... unless they have it handed to them, it is luck... well, I know the hard work and dedication it takes to move up from poverty... I know what it takes to make it in the military... I know that anyone has the freedom to do whatever that have to do or wants to do to pursue happiness and success, and nobody is held back from that freedom... it is you that is delusional thinking that 'the rich' or 'the man' can hold anyone down

You are truly a sick and twisted individual that may indeed be too far gone to be brought back from your programing

 

[DiamondDave]

If people have nothing done for them, they do not naturally turn to robbery, etc... the primal instinct is to provide... not inherently provide by crime... nice try though with the typical liberal fear tactic

The hell they won't. When there is no other option? They'll do whatever they need to do to survive. Maybe they don't naturally turn to crime as you say, but when there's no other option? You bet they will.

Right now there are other options. Shelters, soup kitchens, food stamps, whatever. When there's no other option, you think some heads won't roll?

These are not easy issues to settle. There's a fine line between maintaining civility and creating an entitlement system that can be exploited.

And 10 applicants for each available job? How many options do you think people have?

Again... there is always another option... and not crime

There is a line between civility (charity) and creating an entitlement system that can be exploited (big government wealth redistribution)... THAT you can be certain of... and this government crossed that line long ago... and the longer time goes on, the harder it will be for us to rip that back out of government's hands that are intent on keeping their power

 

[CMike]

To be continued. I've invited someone over to watch a documentary on the history of greed. Stay tuned!

I worked hard to make a better life for myself, my wife, and my two cats. That was my motive.

In the process I supplied livelihoods for numerous other people. I also did something good for my customers, and I paid a shit load in taxes.

I want to empasize that I wasn't out in all weather door knocking to provide livelihoods for anyone else other than for myself and my wife.

You call that greed? Go ahead.

It reminds me of the courts scene in Atlas Shrugged when Hank Rearden was accused of "greed"

Atlas Shrugged: Book Summary - CliffsNotes

 

[CMike]

Lemme guess: Amway?

Beep. Wrong guess.

In any case it's private.

You brought up the subject, that makes it public.

Only up to how much I want to reveal. Do you think you can force me to tell you more than I am willing too?

 

[CMike]

Something else to chew on

Not everyone will make it but anyone can make it
NO, "everyone" can not.

The government does not exist to protect against your personal failure
And they don't now.

Freedom comes with positives and negatives and that is still ultimately more desirable than some phony baloney system supposedly based on equalizing the outcome at the expense of freedom

I have my doubts you even now the true meaning of the word "freedom." In this country, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is an indoctrinated FREEDOM on its face. That some people are unable, for a number of reasons to be as fortunate as someone like you (some of which are spelled out for you here) is well, a fact of life.

Yes... ANYONE can claw their way out of a bad situation. ANYONE can be a success... it is your filthy ilk that keeps proclaiming that certain classes of people are helpless, YOU know what is best for them, and that only your mantra will save them from themselves

Only a very few people are truly unable.... and those generally are either wards of the state or committed by family...

You also seem to like to contribute success stories as 'lucky' or 'fortunate'... showing your smug liberal attitude.... because unless people are like you, it is luck that anything good happens... unless they have it handed to them, it is luck... well, I know the hard work and dedication it takes to move up from poverty... I know what it takes to make it in the military... I know that anyone has the freedom to do whatever that have to do or wants to do to pursue happiness and success, and nobody is held back from that freedom... it is you that is delusional thinking that 'the rich' or 'the man' can hold anyone down

You are truly a sick and twisted individual that may indeed be too far gone to be brought back from your programing

I find the attitude simply sad.

 

[Cuyo]

Providing $1,000 temporary tax credits with one hand while threatening to raise payroll taxes and mandating health care with the other is not much of an incentive.

Small businesses are not going to fall for this cynical bait and switch.

Oh spare us. The mandate applies only to companies with 50+ employees as I understand. Seems some pretty damn big businesses are passing as "small businesses" these days.

 

[Cuyo]

No Socialist/Communist nation on Earth has ever seen an increase in their standard of living. The level of poverty will continue to increase as long as the Socialists are in power. Keep in mind,they're are a lot of Socialists/Progressives in both parties,so both parties are the problem at this point. Socialists and Neocons agree on much more than they want you to know. They are both Big-Government Globalists/Internationalists at the end of the day. We are currently spiraling downward towards Third World Misery. Socialism/Communism is never the answer.

Spam

 

[boedicca]

Providing $1,000 temporary tax credits with one hand while threatening to raise payroll taxes and mandating health care with the other is not much of an incentive.

Small businesses are not going to fall for this cynical bait and switch.

Oh spare us. The mandate applies only to companies with 50+ employees as I understand. Seems some pretty damn big businesses are passing as "small businesses" these days.

Sorry, bub. A business with only 50 employees is a small business. Such businesses have historically been the source of a large portion of job creation - which is not occurring in the present so-called recovery. It's not a coincidence thy are not hiring. It's a shame you are unable to grok why.

 

[CMike]

http://www.sba.gov/advo/stats/sbfaq.pdf

What is a small business?
The Office of Advocacy defines a small business for research purposes as an independent business having fewer than 500 employees. Firms wishing to be designated small businesses for government programs such as contracting must meet size standards specified by the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA) Office of Size Standards. These standards vary by industry; see Small Business Administration - Size Standards.
How important are small businesses to the U.S. economy?
Small firms:
• Represent 99.7 percent of all employer firms.
• Employ just over half of all private sector employees.
• Pay 44 percent of total U.S. private payroll.
• Have generated 64 percent of net new jobs over the past 15 years.
• Create more than half of the nonfarm private gross domestic product (GDP).
• Hire 40 percent of high tech workers (such as scientists, engineers, and computer programmers).
• Are 52 percent home-based and 2 percent franchises.
• Made up 97.3 percent of all identified exporters and produced 30.2 percent of the known export value in FY 2007.
• Produce 13 times more patents per employee than large patenting firms; these patents are twice as likely as large firm patents to be among the one percent most cited.
Source: U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Bureau of the Census and International Trade Admin.; Advocacy-funded research by Kathryn Kobe, 2007 (www.sba.gov/advo/research/rs299tot.pdf) and CHI Research, 2003 (www.sba.gov/advo/research/rs225tot

How many businesses open and close each year?
An estimated 627,200 new employer firms began operations in 2008, and 595,600 firms closed that year. This amounts to an annual turnover of about 10 percent for entry and 10 percent for exit. Nonemployer firms have turnover rates three times as high as those of employer firms, mostly because of easier entry and exit conditions

 

[Cuyo]

I don't understand what you mean by exploiting others?

I employ a number of salespeople
now. They are all on commission. Some of my people I pay about $2,000/week, I have one guy who is on food stamps, not because he doesn't have the skill, but because he is lazy.

In any case I provide livelihoods for a number of people. I have to pay quarterly taxes to the government which are in the five digits.

How is this exploitation?

My story probably is rare. Some people won't "make it" but all have a chance to "make it".

In my case I was a door to door salesman on commission only.

The best thing to do for poor people that are not lazy is to give them opportunities. The way they get opportunities is by allowing the people that create jobs the ability to create more jobs. Making it more expensive for them to do business has the opposite affect.

What exactly do you mean by "leveling the playing field"?

I don't believe in taking people down. It doesn't help you one bit if others are brought down. The only way you will profit is if more people are brought up.

I want everyone to go up.

Once again, I have the greatest sympathy for those who truely try and struggle. And of course I have nothing for sympathy that can't work.

The problem is that there is a very large chunk that don't try and will not take "anything" to survive. They would rather live off the government.

How many people do you know that would go door to door on commission only? I bet not many. I did, and I had a MBA.

You do what you need to do and you never know what it will lead to.

I didn't necessarily mean you were exploiting people, but in a way we do. I employ people as well, and we take a profit out of what they do, don't we? If they don't produce in a way more valuable than their pay, out the door they go, eh? But it's not what I meant.

Lower class people are exploited constantly. Every minute of every day. You pay rent that somebody makes a massive profit on. You make a car payment to a bank that's making a fortune on you. You go to work and your boss takes a profit out of what you do. You go to the store and someone takes a profit out of your purchases. You're probably in debt, so your paying exhorbanant<SP> interest on your credit cards. If you're late on the card your rate goes up to a level that would be considered usury a few decades ago.

People pick over your every move, nickel and diming away at what little you have. The only thing that entitles them to this? THEY HAVE THE MONEY. They own the apartment complex. Had the money to loan for the car. Had the funds to put forward for the CC. Whatever the case. Look at the credit reporting system? You're broke, you're credit sucks, so you pay higher rates. You're late making payments because you have no money, NO PROBLEM FRIEND, you can just pay a little more money!

I've been through this, I guess you have too if your story is true. What cons, particularly older cons have lost touch with, is just how bad it is now. The hard-working over-achiever that would've been rich and retired by 50 back in the day has to work that hard just to survive, just to scrape by, and even then it's tough. And it's getting worse. Costs of living, healthcare, insurance of all kinds, rents, food-- All rising far, far faster than wages. So where's the money going? Any rudimentary graph about wealth disparity will show, it's been going up, up, up to the upper class.

And now there are no jobs, by in large due to outsourcing. That's the elephant in the room that nobody wants to discuss, because reworking our trade agreements.. Tariffs... controlling outsourcing... That would be Socialism! <GASP!>

Anyway, that's my take as somebody who has seen both sides. Wealth begets wealth, and poverty begets poverty. It's headed somewhere very ugly if we let it follow it's current trajectory.

One last thing I forgot to add... You say you "Want everyone to go up." But everyone can't go up. You going up means someone else went down, and the higher you go, the farther others are going down. That's the way it works. Wishful thinking, and I believe that you believe it, but it's a mirage. There is a finite amount of wealth to go around.

 

[Cuyo]

http://www.sba.gov/advo/stats/sbfaq.pdf

What is a small business?
The Office of Advocacy defines a small business for research purposes as an independent business having fewer than 500 employees. Firms wishing to be designated small businesses for government programs such as contracting must meet size standards specified by the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA) Office of Size Standards. These standards vary by industry; see Small Business Administration - Size Standards.
How important are small businesses to the U.S. economy?
Small firms:
• Represent 99.7 percent of all employer firms.
• Employ just over half of all private sector employees.
• Pay 44 percent of total U.S. private payroll.
• Have generated 64 percent of net new jobs over the past 15 years.
• Create more than half of the nonfarm private gross domestic product (GDP).
• Hire 40 percent of high tech workers (such as scientists, engineers, and computer programmers).
• Are 52 percent home-based and 2 percent franchises.
• Made up 97.3 percent of all identified exporters and produced 30.2 percent of the known export value in FY 2007.
• Produce 13 times more patents per employee than large patenting firms; these patents are twice as likely as large firm patents to be among the one percent most cited.
Source: U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Bureau of the Census and International Trade Admin.; Advocacy-funded research by Kathryn Kobe, 2007 (www.sba.gov/advo/research/rs299tot.pdf) and CHI Research, 2003 (www.sba.gov/advo/research/rs225tot

How many businesses open and close each year?
An estimated 627,200 new employer firms began operations in 2008, and 595,600 firms closed that year. This amounts to an annual turnover of about 10 percent for entry and 10 percent for exit. Nonemployer firms have turnover rates three times as high as those of employer firms, mostly because of easier entry and exit conditions

I guess all that's true. I think anything over about 20 employees should be classified "Medium." Myself? I have 4. I could grow to 120 times my size and still be considered a "Small Business?" Seems silly. But it really has no effect on our conversation whatsoever, if you think about it.

 

[Againsheila]

And again... taking care of that family, having that family, etc is YOUR responsibility... not he government's, not society's, not the employer's.. YOURS... you have the freedom to work a second or a 3rd job (I've done it)... you have the freedom to study... you have the freedom to train... you have the freedom to hone a skill.. you have the freedom to do all of these things.. leading to the freedom to succeed or fail, all on your own

Your bs has got to be the worse I've ever seen posted. FREEDOM doesn't put food on the table or a roof over your head or keep you healthy enough to go out and look for work!

Freedom and the concept of personal responsibility for one's own well being is not BS... but your attitude showing that you believe it is BS is very telling

Nobody is supposed to put food on your table but you
2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

Unlike what you whiny leftist entitlement junkies think... the only one responsible for you is YOU

The man is working, he's just not getting paid enough to put the food on the table...hence we need an increase in the minimum wage.

 

[Si modo]

Your bs has got to be the worse I've ever seen posted. FREEDOM doesn't put food on the table or a roof over your head or keep you healthy enough to go out and look for work!

Freedom and the concept of personal responsibility for one's own well being is not BS... but your attitude showing that you believe it is BS is very telling

Nobody is supposed to put food on your table but you
2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

Unlike what you whiny leftist entitlement junkies think... the only one responsible for you is YOU

The man is working, he's just not getting paid enough to put the food on the table...hence we need an increase in the minimum wage.

Cool. Then the cost of that food increases accordingly.

 

[CMike]

I don't understand what you mean by exploiting others?

I employ a number of salespeople
now. They are all on commission. Some of my people I pay about $2,000/week, I have one guy who is on food stamps, not because he doesn't have the skill, but because he is lazy.

In any case I provide livelihoods for a number of people. I have to pay quarterly taxes to the government which are in the five digits.

How is this exploitation?

My story probably is rare. Some people won't "make it" but all have a chance to "make it".

In my case I was a door to door salesman on commission only.

The best thing to do for poor people that are not lazy is to give them opportunities. The way they get opportunities is by allowing the people that create jobs the ability to create more jobs. Making it more expensive for them to do business has the opposite affect.

What exactly do you mean by "leveling the playing field"?

I don't believe in taking people down. It doesn't help you one bit if others are brought down. The only way you will profit is if more people are brought up.

I want everyone to go up.

Once again, I have the greatest sympathy for those who truely try and struggle. And of course I have nothing for sympathy that can't work.

The problem is that there is a very large chunk that don't try and will not take "anything" to survive. They would rather live off the government.

How many people do you know that would go door to door on commission only? I bet not many. I did, and I had a MBA.

You do what you need to do and you never know what it will lead to.

I didn't necessarily mean you were exploiting people, but in a way we do. I employ people as well, and we take a profit out of what they do, don't we? If they don't produce in a way more valuable than their pay, out the door they go, eh? But it's not what I meant.

Lower class people are exploited constantly. Every minute of every day. You pay rent that somebody makes a massive profit on. You make a car payment to a bank that's making a fortune on you. You go to work and your boss takes a profit out of what you do. You go to the store and someone takes a profit out of your purchases. You're probably in debt, so your paying exhorbanant<SP> interest on your credit cards. If you're late on the card your rate goes up to a level that would be considered usury a few decades ago.

People pick over your every move, nickel and diming away at what little you have. The only thing that entitles them to this? THEY HAVE THE MONEY. They own the apartment complex. Had the money to loan for the car. Had the funds to put forward for the CC. Whatever the case. Look at the credit reporting system? You're broke, you're credit sucks, so you pay higher rates. You're late making payments because you have no money, NO PROBLEM FRIEND, you can just pay a little more money!

I appreciate your intelligent response, although I don't agree with it.

I'm thinking how to phrase this to make it rather gentle.

People who own businesses and own apartment buildings are people too. Just because they own a business doesn't mean that they are making a living or have a lot of money.

Most small businesses fail.

http://www.sba.gov/advo/stats/sbfaq.pdf

What is the survival rate for new firms?
Seven out of ten new employer firms last at least two years, and about half survive five years. More specifically, according to new Census data, 69 percent of new employer establishments born to new firms in 2000 survived at least two years, and 51 percent survived five or more years. Firms born in 1990 had very similar survival rates. With most firms starting small, 99.8 percent of the new employer establishments were started by small firms. Survival rates were similar across states and major industries.

People who own apartment buildings can get foreclosed on too.

The difference is if you lose your job, you lost a job, when a business fails, a business owner is losing a big investment and often can now be in large debt as a result.

Yes, if you own a business, and let's say an employee sells a vase that cost $5, the employee doesn't get that $5. Why? Because you also have to pay from that $5 the employee's wages, rent, utilities, taxes, and who knows what else. You also have taken a great deal of risk maintaining a small business.

Your landlord can charge you $600, and yes the landlord does make a profit. What happens though if the apartment has a number of vacancies. The landlord can soon go into foreclosure and lose the building.

These people are human too. Many of them can have a lot of financial trouble as well. They just probably have more zeros attached.

I

've been through this, I guess you have too if your story is true. What cons, particularly older cons have lost touch with, is just how bad it is now. The hard-working over-achiever that would've been rich and retired by 50 back in the day has to work that hard just to survive, just to scrape by, and even then it's tough. And it's getting worse. Costs of living, healthcare, insurance of all kinds, rents, food-- All rising far, far faster than wages. So where's the money going? Any rudimentary graph about wealth disparity will show, it's been going up, up, up to the upper class.[/I]And now there are no jobs, by in large due to outsourcing. That's the elephant in the room that nobody wants to discuss, because reworking our trade agreements.. Tariffs... controlling outsourcing... That would be Socialism! <GASP!>

Anyway, that's my take as somebody who has seen both sides. Wealth begets wealth, and poverty begets poverty. It's headed somewhere very ugly if we let it follow it's current trajectory.

One last thing I forgot to add... You say you "Want everyone to go up." But everyone can't go up. You going up means someone else went down, and the higher you go, the farther others are going down. That's the way it works. Wishful thinking, and I believe that you believe it, but it's a mirage. There is a finite amount of wealth to go around.

I don't understand why you feel that if I succeed someone failed.

I was a salesperson doing door to door sales on commission only.

I created my own business doing the same thing, selling the same product.

I now employ a bunch of salespeople. Some of them I pay $2,000/week.

Who failed because I succeeded?

I am providing livelihoods to people who may not have jobs. I provide a product to my customers, and I pay a lot of taxes. How exactly is that bad?

I was struggelling for over 10 years. As I said I was nervous buying lettuce in the grocery store. For a time, my wife and I lived in my brother in law's basement. We paid him rent for it.

Yeah, it is tough out there, but it's not impossible. The defeatist attitude bothers me. If that's what people believe that's what will happen.

I agree with you regarding credit cards. IMO it's legalized loan sharking without the actual leg breaking.

I want to stress again that I have the greatest sympathy for those who can't work like the elderly, and those who are truely seeking work, and aren't too proud to take a job that they feel isn't at their level.

I have disgust for those who would rather live off the system than work hard, and I have encoutered a lot of them.

This is America. Anything is possible.

Just as a side note. I mentioned that I used to get nervous buying lettuce in the grocery store I know feel wonderful that I buy my wife flowers once a week

 

[MaggieMae]

No Socialist/Communist nation on Earth has ever seen an increase in their standard of living. The level of poverty will continue to increase as long as the Socialists are in power. Keep in mind,they're are a lot of Socialists/Progressives in both parties,so both parties are the problem at this point. Socialists and Neocons agree on much more than they want you to know. They are both Big-Government Globalists/Internationalists at the end of the day. We are currently spiraling downward towards Third World Misery. Socialism/Communism is never the answer.

You need to study the clear difference between Socialism and Communism, and all of you need to stop linking the two as inclusively Lenin-istic. Both Canada and the UK are capitalist countries with many social programs but that doesn't make either exclusively Socialist, and hardly Communist countries. And their standard of living is much the same as our own.

 

[MaggieMae]

And again... taking care of that family, having that family, etc is YOUR responsibility... not he government's, not society's, not the employer's.. YOURS... you have the freedom to work a second or a 3rd job (I've done it)... you have the freedom to study... you have the freedom to train... you have the freedom to hone a skill.. you have the freedom to do all of these things.. leading to the freedom to succeed or fail, all on your own

Your bs has got to be the worse I've ever seen posted. FREEDOM doesn't put food on the table or a roof over your head or keep you healthy enough to go out and look for work!

Freedom give you the opportunity to do so.

You have the right to "pursue" happiness. You don't have a right to happiness.

You have a right to become rich. You don't have a right to be rich.

Nice spin, but it hardly addresses my example.

 

[MaggieMae]

To be continued. I've invited someone over to watch a documentary on the history of greed. Stay tuned!

Very informative. The documentary is from The History Channel, called "Seven Deadly Sins," and in this one it discusses one of them--GREED--from the moment it was defined by some monk BC, through the ages until today. Subtitle: "Greed has both created and doomed vast empires."