Debate Now Republican candidates discussion, Conservative/libertarian/tea party only

[Sun Devil 92]

Hi Red Team. I agree this has been a great thread. I have been disappointed that it isn't more active but the OP went on to other things and when that happens, the thread usually dies. But I for one would like to see it revived.

I have mixed emotions about the Fox questions--difficult yes and I definitely didn't want those people tossed softballs. But I was immediately frustrated that they went for the personal jugulars instead of focusing on the issues and what the people really need to know about the candidate's positions on the important things. I am so tired of the politics of personal destruction and would like the whole conversation elevated above that.

It is amazing to me that you actually think that Fox cares about issues.

Issues don't sell.

Drama does.

Fox has more to gain by keeping people emotionally attached than intellectually fed.

I disagree. Fox focuses on issues better than any other mainstream news source which is, IMO, why they beat all the others in the ratings combines.

It's great you have an opinion.

I have one or two shows I'll watch on Fox and one or two I'll watch on CNN and MSNBC. Beyond that, they appear to be little more than pot stirring efforts IMO. I can't sit through 10 minutes of Hannity. The guy is as partisan and agenda driven as Al Sharpton. The Kelly file is little better. She's good at condemning before all the evidence is heard.

I don't watch much, but I like On The Record.

When it comes to the debate and Fox's conduct with regards to candidates in general....they appear (based on my limited viewing) to be highly favoring some canidates over others.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

What a great thread! I'd have put my Rubio (pencil)-endorsement here if I'd have payed enough attention beforehand.

I agree the Fox debate was well done. Everybody got asked the most difficult question the mods could engineer for them. All but one took theirs gracefully like an adult on a debate stage. I'm disappointed Cruz has sold himself out to the meme Fox was unfair to Trump.

I only caught snippets of the B-team debate, but it was even from just those Fiorina stole the show. I understand she needs to be operatic in protesting the Sept. Debate rules, but I worry she's overdoing it a bit and coming across with an impression that will injure her in the long run.

Why are we having debates so early in the game ?

And what is the value to these people in gaining ground early ?

Answer: Money

Does that not tell you something ?

The debates aren't so early if they want to get in several before the first primary votes early next year.

Winning one of the first three primary contests is the only way someone stays in the money race.

It's early and it's stupid.

 

[Shrimpbox]

I have not given Ben Carson the attention he deserves. He is the dark horse(excuse the pun) and the surging surgeon. He displays a kind of brilliance that Obama is always credited with but never exhibits, and his brilliance has been creeping up on us. He gets minimal,press coverage, you never hear about the money he is collecting, or the grass root support that according to the polls is steamrolling.

I believe Carson is actually in stealth mode. He got my attention the,other day when in an interview it came to me how this guy is organizing his run and why he has so much potential to be there at the end. He is running his campaign as one would lead in the operating room. He carefully hires the best people. Makes sure it is a well oiled machine. He expects,the best from his team. They are focused on the mission. He is confident and he has quickly learned how to navigate the media. He has shown fearlessness, as when he confronted the black lives matter group right in Harlem. In an almost diametrically opposed manner to Trump, Carson beats back the PC police with charm and manners, virtues in high demand to the voting public this time around. Carson has no problem with authenticity or with connecting to regular folk. He is a quick study.

I am going to take a risk and assume,that Carson has no skeletons in his closet. I am going to extend,this risk by saying that Carson wife is going to be an asset to the campaign with her grandmotherly plainness and political virginity. If all,this is true I think Carson will be a heavyweight contender. He has thought this thing through.

 

[RedTeamTex]

Wow, the Fox debate sure hits a lot of nerves! Sure I like nuanced issue nitty-gritty as much as the next guy, but debates just aren't a reliable venue for it. (Thank goodness there's still the forums for 1-on-1 interviews--where everyone got enough time to demonstrate policy mastery and Trump still shot himself in the foot re: POWs.) I see the debates as an audition for those competing for the same role: coalition-leader under fire. I want to see how they take hard balls. If some candidates bring more baggage to the table than others, there's nothing unfair about them being expected to address it in their job interview.

I have to agree Dr. Carson has a lot of aptitude; his performance in the race so far is beyond reproach. He's made some rookie flubs in the past but he is a fast learner. My concern is there isn't a lot of cross-over skills from medicine to executive management in the public sector. As a citizen, his resume & career are exemplary. As a prospective chief executive of trillion-dollar budgets, it needs some more time on the vine. Surgeon General.

[edit:] or maybe Veep.

 

[Foxfyre]

Hi Red Team. I agree this has been a great thread. I have been disappointed that it isn't more active but the OP went on to other things and when that happens, the thread usually dies. But I for one would like to see it revived.

I have mixed emotions about the Fox questions--difficult yes and I definitely didn't want those people tossed softballs. But I was immediately frustrated that they went for the personal jugulars instead of focusing on the issues and what the people really need to know about the candidate's positions on the important things. I am so tired of the politics of personal destruction and would like the whole conversation elevated above that.

It is amazing to me that you actually think that Fox cares about issues.

Issues don't sell.

Drama does.

Fox has more to gain by keeping people emotionally attached than intellectually fed.

I disagree. Fox focuses on issues better than any other mainstream news source which is, IMO, why they beat all the others in the ratings combines.

It's great you have an opinion.

I have one or two shows I'll watch on Fox and one or two I'll watch on CNN and MSNBC. Beyond that, they appear to be little more than pot stirring efforts IMO. I can't sit through 10 minutes of Hannity. The guy is as partisan and agenda driven as Al Sharpton. The Kelly file is little better. She's good at condemning before all the evidence is heard.

I don't watch much, but I like On The Record.

When it comes to the debate and Fox's conduct with regards to candidates in general....they appear (based on my limited viewing) to be highly favoring some canidates over others.

I am not seeing that obvious favoritism. I think of all the MSM, they are giving everybody a lot of opportunity for face time. It's just that there for awhile Trump was sucking all the air out of the room because he was the one everybody was drawn to and enjoyed hearing what he had to say. Unscripted and unpredictable he has been the more interesting. Those doing television do television to make money first and foremost, so they are going to provide the programming that keeps people interesting and watching.

And from a media watcher's perspective he is both amazing and an enigma. I don't believe in my lifetime I have witnessed a famous person going from a more than 70% unfavorability rating to a 60-70% positive rating ever, much less in the short time Trump has been able to turn that around. It has been a fascinating thing to watch. All candidates hope to 'shoot themselves in the foot' like that.

The bloom may be fading a bit though. While Trump still substantially leads among all GOP hopefuls among all groups, others are slowly but surely beginning to whittle away on his lead--especially Ben Carson. And because so many people are less entrenched in their loyalties, I suspect we will see this become a much closer contest as we move closer to the primary elections.

 

[Foxfyre]

Wow, the Fox debate sure hits a lot of nerves! Sure I like nuanced issue nitty-gritty as much as the next guy, but debates just aren't a reliable venue for it. (Thank goodness there's still the forums for 1-on-1 interviews--where everyone got enough time to demonstrate policy mastery and Trump still shot himself in the foot re: POWs.) I see the debates as an audition for those competing for the same role: coalition-leader under fire. I want to see how they take hard balls. If some candidates bring more baggage to the table than others, there's nothing unfair about them being expected to address it in their job interview.

I have to agree Dr. Carson has a lot of aptitude; his performance in the race so far is beyond reproach. He's made some rookie flubs in the past but he is a fast learner. My concern is there isn't a lot of cross-over skills from medicine to executive management in the public sector. As a citizen, his resume & career are exemplary. As a prospective chief executive of trillion-dollar budgets, it needs some more time on the vine. Surgeon General.

[edit:] or maybe Veep.

I don't want the 'baggage' addressed in the 'debates' myself. We all know about the 'baggage' because the candidates opponents will make sure nobody forgets about that. I want to know about their attitude and ability. And in truth, the closest person we have nominated in a long time who had the experience and track record both in government and private industry to be qualified to be President was Mitt Romney and the voters rejected him. And even he would have had to recruit people with expertise in various areas to advise and assist him.

I want to learn what I need to know about the candidate's point of view about what the President's role should be re those trillion dollar budgets and other difficult problems the President will have to face. And I want to feel that the President has the ability to recognize and recruit the talent in his staff and candidate to help him do the job as well as it can be done. And if I decide Ben Carson has that ability, and I suspect he probably does, his lack of executive experience would not be a problem.

What I don't want is another 'status quo' professional politician who will surround himself with other 'status quo' professional politicians and nothing really changes.

 

[RedTeamTex]

Up to now, I really regarded Carly Fiorina as a novelty candidate. Her experience has some worrisome holes for the job she's running for.

But I would say after this interview: Carly Fiorina Answers Foreign Policy Questions That Trump Called "Gotchas"

If she continues to hit home runs, I can see myself being ok with Fiorina on the ticket.

 

[RedTeamTex]

Adios Rick...he was never my top pick, but he's a credit to the race and signed off the race with class. Despite his debate lapse four years ago, I think he'd be a fine pick for the Veep slot, assuming the nominee is from a purple or blue state.

I just hate that a stalking horse sent from the Clintons is taking up a spot on our top debate stage choking out real Republicans who deserve to be there.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think after the next debate, others who can't climb out of the low single digits will likely start dropping out too.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Ok fox, you are,a woman. You got to love the latest Carly F commercial. What genius. Finally they are doing what I have been advocating for so long. It only takes some savvy, smarts, and imagination to put the repubs on top. She not only snubbed trump in a,positive way, she just took the war on women issue away from Hilary. I mean this thing blows,the doors off. I prostate myself in reverence in front of,this,commercial. Democrats are so yesterday. whoever is doing the nra ads and the Carly ads I am available if it is just to get coffee. the path to the presidency has been revealed, you all better climb on board.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Yawn! Three hours is just too long. Gotcha and baiting questions should be disallowed. I only really saw maybe the last half of the debate. Paul, huckabee, bush, Christie, and Kasich need to go. Paul just doesn't have the gravitas. Huckabee pretty much was a single issue man but to be fair he did not get equal time. This is my problem with bush and Kasich. Bush just doesn't get it. Margaret thatcher on American money. I love the Iron Lady but this is America Jeb, hello! John Kasich sounded like he was at a hippie commune, mother Theresa on an American twenty dollar bill. If you say that you are not going in the right direction for this voter. Christie definitely lights up the screen but he just isn't going to make it over the hump.

Rubio, trump, Carson, Cruz, and Fiorino need to be on stage for,the next debate. I think Cruz probably helped himself a lot but I wish he would stop with this I will never stuff, that will come back to bite him in the ass, but he is firm. Trump was under constant attack but he didn't make any untrump gaffes. He is still shaking it up. Carson is such a wise calm man, I love the way he didn't take the bait about the vaccine thing. He is a thoughtful man. I guess the debate wa really the "come to Carly" moment. Man that woman schooled the rest of em as oreilly said. Focused, prepared, forceful, poignant, and assertive. I have to stop thinking about her as the second banana and start thinking about her as the top dog. The biggest revelation last night for me in the post debate was that Fiorino is resonating with so many women. I mean they are flocking to her. And these are women across the spectrum. The irony of the war on women crowd electing the first woman president is too delicious for words. We would have to put so many liberals on usmb on suicide watch. Rubio did well again and for the life of me I do not know why he isn't getting more traction. Hang in there.

We are so rich in candidates. We have a woman, Latino, young, business people, governors, a black, energy, and ideas. The dems had to raid the white only old folks home to find their candidates. They are fossilized, dull, living in the past, and believers of the status quo. Obamas ethnic cleansing of the Democratic Party has hollowed out its vitality and hope. The dems are nothing more than a voter turnout machine. Without an Obama to con the uninformed voting for dems becomes a duty not,a mission. God repubs have so much opportunity, let's kick it up a notch.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think Carly definitely helped herself last night. And Jeb had a better night than he did in the first debate but not good enough to catch up I don't think. Christie had a good night. None of the rest, including Trump, seriously hurt themselves but didn't help themselves a whole lot either. My only criticism of Carly, were I coaching her, would be to help her soften just a wee bit--smile more-- come across as a little less 'iron lady' and a little more warm. But she is the only one at the podium I would give an A for her contribution. I do believe she is now officially a contender.

Rubio is a good guy and would do better if he could just adjust his delivery to make his obviously scripted and memorized spiel sound less like a scripted and memorized school recitation and more from the heart.

Agreed that it went too long and there were far too many up there. They need to start making it the top half in the prime time debate and the bottom half in the 'pre-debate' and those groups will whittle down as some start dropping out.

 

[Shrimpbox]

I loved Carly being,so passionate about planned parenthood but I do think she needs to loosen upalittle. It's a hard call for,a man because we will be accused of chauvinism, but lose the chief executive persona for a few minutes, a little,softness will make her more appealing.

 

[Foxfyre]

I loved Carly being,so passionate about planned parenthood but I do think she needs to loosen upalittle. It's a hard call for,a man because we will be accused of chauvinism, but lose the chief executive persona for a few minutes, a little,softness will make her more appealing.

That's true of both men and women. Somebody who always seems stern and angry just isn't as appealing as somebody who gets a joke, who can grin when he/she delivers his/her zingers, etc. That is Trump's greatest gifts, the ability to have fun with it while getting his point across. It makes him likable, interesting, and that, plus his complete rejection of any attempt to be politically correct, has drawn people to him and has made them open to what he has to say.

 

[RedTeamTex]

Caught up on the first half of the debate this weekend. Fiorina is a force to be reckoned with! I think she may be the best one in the bunch when it comes to being in front of a camera. I wonder if she has the game to start wooing the right backers and congeal the party. I think her unlikely to forge all those ties in such a short span of time, but given her demonstrable smarts so far I wouldn't count her out. I wish she had more public service experience, but it's pretty apparent I'm in a distinct minority of Republicans in that regard these days....

I have to say, Cruz limping along has surprised me. He's pitch-perfect credible for his intended target audience and I don't know why the 'mad-as-hell' crowd doesn't go for his scorched earth politics. (Not that I'm complaining--this guy has zero executive aptitude...and his trigger finger isn't just ideological, it's compulsive. Easy to forget when Donald Trump is the frame of reference.) Maybe when the intoxication wears off the novelty candidates, they'll gravitate back to an 'authentic' tea party player like Cruz.

I agree with you Fox, Rubio could do with just a bit more 'from-the-gut.' But I don't fault him for his scripted style...it's effective and it does something that no other candidate seems to be able to do: find the rhetorical center of our party and pin us all together the way a leader should.

He's still my guy. I think he'll be the "second choice guy" for enough people to get the nomination.

 

[Foxfyre]

I read awhile ago that Walker is probably the next one to announce that he is dropping out.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Good for,Walker,to see the handwriting on the wall. His money dried up and he did not let his ego overrun his brain, and he said he wanted to do what's right for the party. More should follow his lead. The scouting report on Walker was true, u exciting and bland.

 

[RedTeamTex]

Ryan Invites 2016 GOP Field to Poverty Forum | RealClearPolitics
This is a great idea, and exactly the kind of thing we need to get candidates discussing.

 

[RedTeamTex]

Marco Rubio passes Jeb Bush in Florida poll; Hillary Clinton weak | Post On Politics
If Bush pulls it off from here, man he really deserves it. It looks to me like he's cornered and has to go negative on Rubio, because Rubio just isn't making mistakes. Yet Bush can only go so negative (at least directly) before it backfires and Rubio walks away with it anyway. Unless Bush has locked up some support we don't know about yet and Rubio gets quietly sideswept by a backstage hurricane, MR has the "big mo" that will be hard to overcome.

If there's some devastating opposition research against Rubio, now's the time. Otherwise we won't see it until a year from October.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Red, first, Jeb has the wrong last name and many people including me will not vote for him. He should,have understood that from the gitgo. Immigration and common core have been disasters for bush. Parents sending their children here to become anchor children would be illegal,if Americans did this,to their children. Remember the parents who were charged for,letting their children go play at the playground. He really just doesn't get it. He has been a member of,the,privileged and political class for,so,long he has lost touch. He will not overwhelm Rubio on foreign affairs, or on youth. And he will suffer the Romney curse of not really connecting with the regular folks. It will be a failure for,repubs if bush buys the nomination and he will lose in the general election. His mother was right, don't we have someone else besides a bush that can run for president. Bow out gracefully.