Republicans Are, And Have Been, Attacking Social Security

[Mikeoxenormous]

Not the point at all is it? The entire point of working for higher pay is to have a better lifestyle. Who are you to take it that from them as you see fit?



You have it bad for corporations. Typical, brainwashed lefty.



This is some seriously fuzzy math. If the cap is removed, a self-employed person making 300k would pay 12.4% or $37,200/yr. in SS taxes. Assuming this salary for 35 years, they would have paid $1,302,000 into the system.

Lets do the real math here. If the self-employed person takes early retirement at age 62, they would receive $3,627 in benefits per month. To break even, the would need to live 29.9 years(1,302,000/3627)/12), or to age 92. If they took retirement at age 70, they would receive $4,555/mth. they would need to live 23.8 years (1,302,000/4555)/12) or to the ripe old age 93.8 years. Both of these ages are well above the average just to break even and this doesn't even factor in the fact that they receive no interest on their money, which would be significant over that length of time. To be fair, if this person worked for a corporation, their contributions would be 1/2 of this thus everything is cut in half. Even with 1/2 their contributions being paid by their company, early retirement would require them to live to 77 to break even and late retirement(70) would require them to live to 82 to break even. Keep in mind however, that SOMEBODY, whether it be the individual or a combination of the individual and the corporation, likely put in more that will ever be drawn. If the cap is removed then this number obviously considers to rise as income rises. A person making 600k would be lucky to even collect 1/2 of what they contributed.

Now, lets do the math as it is currently with the cap, just for fun. Current cap is 160k. A self employed person makes 160k pays $19,840/yr for 35 years for a total of $694,400 in total. If they took early retirement, they would receive $3627/mth in benefits and would need to live 15.9 years or to the age of 77 to break even. If they took it at age 70, they would need to live 12.7 years or to the age of 83 to break even. Just as a reminder, the average life expectancy in the US is 79 for women and 74 for men.

Another thing worth noting is that SS taxes are not calculated on all pre-tax deductions. Typically, one of the largest pre-tax deduction is to a 401(k), but SS tax is calculated prior to that deduction. You are given credit for the pre-tax deduction for health care.

Seems to me that you need to rethink your numbers. It is absolutely clear that if the cap is removed, higher wage earners are heavily subsidizing SS, which was never the intent of the program. It would essentially be nothing more than a huge hidden tax increase on those making more than $160k/yr. As it stands now, those making 160k/yr will essentially break even if they live to average age.

 

[francoHFW]

On the premise that others believe that. The TV entertainers who are progressive government shills posing as comedians can tell us.

Your problem is that everyone outside of brain washed functional moron GOP base voters listen to actual news programs, not your garbage propaganda...., functional conspiracy nut job. so who is running this gigantic conspiracy that no one has ever talked about LOL? Do they also control the BBC and French journalism and the Indians and the Germans and all the other people around the world that believe in actual journalism and trying to find out the truth....

 

[francoHFW]

View attachment 761851

the greedy idiot GOP rich and of course thus the rest of the rich have been stealing from you for 40 years. That's why we have the worst inequality, upward mobility, homelessness ever anywhere in the modern world by far. and you're obsessed with totally imaginary election fraud and pedophiles. Absolute idiocy

 

[Blues Man]

the greedy idiot GOP rich and of course thus the rest of the rich have been stealing from you for 40 years. That's why we have the worst inequality, upward mobility, homelessness ever anywhere in the modern world by far. and you're obsessed with totally imaginary election fraud and pedophiles. Absolute idiocy

and of course rich democrats NEVER do that.

You accuse others of being brainwashed and are blind to your own brainwashing.

Not a single politician has ever had your best interests at heart the sooner you and the other morons mired in the corrupt duopoly realize that the sooner we can get down to fixing the problems the duopoly has saddled us with

 

[francoHFW]

Not the point at all is it? The entire point of working for higher pay is to have a better lifestyle. Who are you to take it that from them as you see fit?



You have it bad for corporations. Typical, brainwashed lefty.



This is some seriously fuzzy math. If the cap is removed, a self-employed person making 300k would pay 12.4% or $37,200/yr. in SS taxes. Assuming this salary for 35 years, they would have paid $1,302,000 into the system.

Lets do the real math here. If the self-employed person takes early retirement at age 62, they would receive $3,627 in benefits per month. To break even, the would need to live 29.9 years(1,302,000/3627)/12), or to age 92. If they took retirement at age 70, they would receive $4,555/mth. they would need to live 23.8 years (1,302,000/4555)/12) or to the ripe old age 93.8 years. Both of these ages are well above the average just to break even and this doesn't even factor in the fact that they receive no interest on their money, which would be significant over that length of time. To be fair, if this person worked for a corporation, their contributions would be 1/2 of this thus everything is cut in half. Even with 1/2 their contributions being paid by their company, early retirement would require them to live to 77 to break even and late retirement(70) would require them to live to 82 to break even. Keep in mind however, that SOMEBODY, whether it be the individual or a combination of the individual and the corporation, likely put in more that will ever be drawn. If the cap is removed then this number obviously considers to rise as income rises. A person making 600k would be lucky to even collect 1/2 of what they contributed.

Now, lets do the math as it is currently with the cap, just for fun. Current cap is 160k. A self employed person makes 160k pays $19,840/yr for 35 years for a total of $694,400 in total. If they took early retirement, they would receive $3627/mth in benefits and would need to live 15.9 years or to the age of 77 to break even. If they took it at age 70, they would need to live 12.7 years or to the age of 83 to break even. Just as a reminder, the average life expectancy in the US is 79 for women and 74 for men.

Another thing worth noting is that SS taxes are not calculated on all pre-tax deductions. Typically, one of the largest pre-tax deduction is to a 401(k), but SS tax is calculated prior to that deduction. You are given credit for the pre-tax deduction for health care.

Seems to me that you need to rethink your numbers. It is absolutely clear that if the cap is removed, higher wage earners are heavily subsidizing SS, which was never the intent of the program. It would essentially be nothing more than a huge hidden tax increase on those making more than $160k/yr. As it stands now, those making 160k/yr will essentially break even if they live to average age.

if you count all taxes, everyone is paying about 27% on average in all taxes, Google the only tax graph you need to know, which is a huge giveaway to the rich and they have never been more bloated than they are today, Ditto with many giant corporations that pay no taxes on their . Thanks to big oil GOP cronies. Wake up and smell the coffee. First off change the channel because Murdoch and Internet Crazies are pure garbage propaganda and hate. The worst thing that has ever happened to American politics is that and you. we are easily the richest country and we can afford the benefits of citizenship that every other modern country has. FREE stuff how horrible, you people are unbelievable dupes of the greedy idiot GOP rich.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Not the point at all is it? The entire point of working for higher pay is to have a better lifestyle. Who are you to take it that from them as you see fit?



You have it bad for corporations. Typical, brainwashed lefty.



This is some seriously fuzzy math. If the cap is removed, a self-employed person making 300k would pay 12.4% or $37,200/yr. in SS taxes. Assuming this salary for 35 years, they would have paid $1,302,000 into the system.

Lets do the real math here. If the self-employed person takes early retirement at age 62, they would receive $3,627 in benefits per month. To break even, the would need to live 29.9 years(1,302,000/3627)/12), or to age 92. If they took retirement at age 70, they would receive $4,555/mth. they would need to live 23.8 years (1,302,000/4555)/12) or to the ripe old age 93.8 years. Both of these ages are well above the average just to break even and this doesn't even factor in the fact that they receive no interest on their money, which would be significant over that length of time. To be fair, if this person worked for a corporation, their contributions would be 1/2 of this thus everything is cut in half. Even with 1/2 their contributions being paid by their company, early retirement would require them to live to 77 to break even and late retirement(70) would require them to live to 82 to break even. Keep in mind however, that SOMEBODY, whether it be the individual or a combination of the individual and the corporation, likely put in more that will ever be drawn. If the cap is removed then this number obviously considers to rise as income rises. A person making 600k would be lucky to even collect 1/2 of what they contributed.

Now, lets do the math as it is currently with the cap, just for fun. Current cap is 160k. A self employed person makes 160k pays $19,840/yr for 35 years for a total of $694,400 in total. If they took early retirement, they would receive $3627/mth in benefits and would need to live 15.9 years or to the age of 77 to break even. If they took it at age 70, they would need to live 12.7 years or to the age of 83 to break even. Just as a reminder, the average life expectancy in the US is 79 for women and 74 for men.

Another thing worth noting is that SS taxes are not calculated on all pre-tax deductions. Typically, one of the largest pre-tax deduction is to a 401(k), but SS tax is calculated prior to that deduction. You are given credit for the pre-tax deduction for health care.

Seems to me that you need to rethink your numbers. It is absolutely clear that if the cap is removed, higher wage earners are heavily subsidizing SS, which was never the intent of the program. It would essentially be nothing more than a huge hidden tax increase on those making more than $160k/yr. As it stands now, those making 160k/yr will essentially break even if they live to average age.

#1 "If the self-employed person takes early retirement at age 62, they would receive $3,627..." Maximum benefit at 62 is $2,572, maximum benefit at 67 is $3,627. You are correct that the maximum benefit at 70 is $4,555.

#2 Maximum earnings cap as a function of maximum tax has not been $37,200 for 35 years. It's changes every year.

#3 You math is fuzzy because you are not accurately presenting the variables and all these "mistakes" are on the said of attempting to prove that an "individual" in such a such a position will pay more but not be able to earn more. That is an incorrect assumption, you have to look at actuary tables (life expectancy on average) or even more accurately benefits months (how long once reaching retirement at - previously 65 - and now 67 do people draw benefits. That average is about 17 years. You cannot base "system" amounts on an individual, you have to look at aggregate amounts.
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So you don't want the caps changed, got it.

What is your solution to prevent the SS Trust fund from becoming depleted in 2035 and not have a 20-23% cut in checks to seniors living on SS? Please provide some detail of how your solution would be implemented and your evaluation of whether it would be politically doable.

WW

 

[Meister]

MarcATL What is your solution to fix the underfunded Medicare and Social Security?

I'm not a proponent of eliminating the two, I'm a proponent of reforming Social Security.


So I asked you a question, will I get answer?

 

[francoHFW]

and of course rich democrats NEVER do that.

You accuse others of being brainwashed and are blind to your own brainwashing.

Not a single politician has ever had your best interests at heart the sooner you and the other morons mired in the corrupt duopoly realize that the sooner we can get down to fixing the problems the duopoly has saddled us with

give me a socialist every time. Always democratic fair capitalism with good safety net. not the ridiculous GOP non definition LOL. socialists and Democrats want a living wage cheap college and training health care for all day care paid parental leave ID card to end to an illegal immigration, great infrastructure and vacations like every other modern country. I believe you have been duped into total apathy by the GOP. Just vote Democratic and don't worry about it- We're going places when we finally get a landslide.... Go Trump!

 

[Meister]

give me a socialist every time. Always democratic fair capitalism with good safety net. not the ridiculous GOP non definition LOL. socialists and Democrats want a living wage cheap college and training health care for all day care paid parental leave ID card to end to an illegal immigration, great infrastructure and vacations like every other modern country. I believe you have been duped into total apathy by the GOP. Just vote Democratic and don't worry about it- We're going places when we finally get a landslide.... Go Trump!

It works really well until you run out of other peoples money.

 

[Blues Man]

give me a socialist every time. Always democratic fair capitalism with good safety net. not the ridiculous GOP non definition LOL. socialists and Democrats want a living wage cheap college and training health care for all day care paid parental leave ID card to end to an illegal immigration, great infrastructure and vacations like every other modern country. I believe you have been duped into total apathy by the GOP. Just vote Democratic and don't worry about it- We're going places when we finally get a landslide.... Go Trump!

I don't listen to the GOP or the DNC

These are the 2 parties that have fucked everything up why would I want them to keep fucking things up?

our government needs an enema.

 

[BluesLegend]

the greedy idiot GOP rich and of course thus the rest of the rich have been stealing from you for 40 years.

LOL do you steal your neighbor's newspaper? Then why do you think it's okay to take other peoples money they earned? You mooching left wingers are not entitled to other people's money.

 

[DBA]

if you count all taxes, everyone is paying about 27% on average in all taxes, Google the only tax graph you need to know, which is a huge giveaway to the rich and they have never been more bloated than they are today, Ditto with many giant corporations that pay no taxes on their . Thanks to big oil GOP cronies. Wake up and smell the coffee. First off change the channel because Murdoch and Internet Crazies are pure garbage propaganda and hate. The worst thing that has ever happened to American politics is that and you. we are easily the richest country and we can afford the benefits of citizenship that every other modern country has. FREE stuff how horrible, you people are unbelievable dupes of the greedy idiot GOP rich.

Again, even if true, how is it unfair that everyone pays the same percentage? That is some seriously warped, ideological thinking there.

 

[DBA]

give me a socialist every time. Always democratic fair capitalism with good safety net. not the ridiculous GOP non definition LOL. socialists and Democrats want a living wage cheap college and training health care for all day care paid parental leave ID card to end to an illegal immigration, great infrastructure and vacations like every other modern country. I believe you have been duped into total apathy by the GOP. Just vote Democratic and don't worry about it- We're going places when we finally get a landslide.... Go Trump!

You need to move. We don’t need those with this mindset in this country. Had our forefathers thought the same, the US would never be in the enviable(yes, that is the case) position we are in now.

 

[DBA]

#2 Maximum earnings cap as a function of maximum tax has not been $37,200 for 35 years. It's changes every year.

True, however, if the cap is removed, how does this benefit your argument going forward? It simply bolsters mine. As it currently stands, that would decrease the total amount paid in. By how much, I don’t know. Not willing to do that much leg work.

#1 "If the self-employed person takes early retirement at age 62, they would receive $3,627..." Maximum benefit at 62 is $2,572, maximum benefit at 67 is $3,627. You are correct that the maximum benefit at 70 is $4,555.

Yes, you are correct, making my numbers even all the more relevant.

#3 You math is fuzzy because you are not accurately presenting the variables and all these "mistakes" are on the said of attempting to prove that an "individual" in such a such a position will pay more but not be able to earn more. That is an incorrect assumption, you have to look at actuary tables (life expectancy on average) or even more accurately benefits months (how long once reaching retirement at - previously 65 - and now 67 do people draw benefits. That average is about 17 years. You cannot base "system" amounts on an individual, you have to look at aggregate amounts.

Why should only some individuals have to earn more(work harder) to make the same amount of money?

Not sure where you are going with the second part of this. Bottom line is that if I make 300k/yr and there is no cap, I will be paying an additional $8k-$16k/yr in taxes than the person making $160k and my life expectancy is no longer that theirs on average. That is as simple as it gets.

What is your solution to prevent the SS Trust fund from becoming depleted in 2035 and not have a 20-23% cut in checks to seniors living on SS? Please provide some detail of how your solution would be implemented and your evaluation of whether it would be politically doable.

Not sure of the solution, but it must be one where EVERYONE has more skin in the game, not just some. There are many now that would certainly vote for the removal of the cap simply because they don’t have to pay for it. A system of government where people can vote themselves a free or better ride at the complete expense of others is unsustainable.

 

[WorldWatcher]

True, however, if the cap is removed, how does this benefit your argument going forward? It simply bolsters mine. As it currently stands, that would decrease the total amount paid in. By how much, I don’t know. Not willing to do that much leg work.

I haven't advocated (as some do) to remove the cap, I've said the cap should be raised.

Raising the cap doesn't decrease the total amount paid into SS, it increases.

Yes, you are correct, making my numbers even all the more relevant.

Using bad numbers does not make your numbers more relevant, just the opposite. If you use bad numbers it makes your numbers non-relevant.

Why should only some individuals have to earn more(work harder) to make the same amount of money?

Not sure where you are going with the second part of this. Bottom line is that if I make 300k/yr and there is no cap, I will be paying an additional $8k-$16k/yr in taxes than the person making $160k and my life expectancy is no longer that theirs on average. That is as simple as it gets.

There would still be a cap.

As previously show wealthy wage earners live 8-9 years LONGER, then poor and lower/middle class workers meaning they draw MORE in benefits (on average). So factually incorrect, they don't "make the same amount of money" if you mean lifetime benefits.

Not sure of the solution, but it must be one where EVERYONE has more skin in the game, not just some. There are many now that would certainly vote for the removal of the cap simply because they don’t have to pay for it. A system of government where people can vote themselves a free or better ride at the complete expense of others is unsustainable.

Well on this we can agree. I don't know the best long term solution either.

The main problem is the SS "Fix" in the 80's was supposed to make SS solvent for 50 years. And it worked, 2035 is when the Trust fund gets exhausted and benefits will be cut. From the early 80's to the mid-2030's is right at 50 years. Baby Boomers are like the bulge of a rodent passing through a snake. The tail end of the Baby Boomers are just reaching retirement age, and the picture will be different once that bulge passes.

The only solution (that I see) is either raising the current cap (double it) AND/OR look at including other revenue (interest, dividends, short stock trades, capital gains, etc.) subject at some percentage to SS Tax (and then that amount can be included in earnings calculations for retirement benefits). Transition from the concept of "wage earnings" to "income".

I don't see cutting benefits either by reducing checks or raising the retirement age (and yes that is a cut by shortening the years someone can draw the benefit they paid into) as politically viable considering that seniors have the highest rate of voting amongst any demographic.

WW

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

the greedy idiot GOP rich and of course thus the rest of the rich have been stealing from you for 40 years. That's why we have the worst inequality, upward mobility, homelessness ever anywhere in the modern world by far. and you're obsessed with totally imaginary election fraud and pedophiles. Absolute idiocy

Have they? How is it that you, go into a store, pick up items that are for sale, you walk to a register and pull out money that you freely hand over to a cashier, is theft? Please explain?

As for worst inequality for wealth? Thank the brown turd Obammy for that shit. Now his VP is just following in his footsteps you dickwad...

During Obama’s Presidency Wealth Inequality has Increased and Poverty Levels are Higher

Troubling and significant statistics produced by the government indicate important facts about our political system and its priorities. Unfortunately,

www.counterpunch.org

US Income Inequality Rose to Record During Biden’s First Year

A key measure of US income inequality rose to a new record in 2021, the first year of President Joe Biden’s term.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[francoHFW]

It works really well until you run out of other peoples money.

it works in every other modern country and it worked here before Reagan, brain washed functional moron.

 

[francoHFW]

Have they? How is it that you, go into a store, pick up items that are for sale, you walk to a register and pull out money that you freely hand over to a cashier, is theft? Please explain?

As for worst inequality for wealth? Thank the brown turd Obammy for that shit. Now his VP is just following in his footsteps you dickwad...

During Obama’s Presidency Wealth Inequality has Increased and Poverty Levels are Higher

Troubling and significant statistics produced by the government indicate important facts about our political system and its priorities. Unfortunately,

www.counterpunch.org

US Income Inequality Rose to Record During Biden’s First Year

A key measure of US income inequality rose to a new record in 2021, the first year of President Joe Biden’s term.

www.bloomberg.com

and the inequality and upward mobility will continue to get worse and worse as long as we have GOP tax rates, for crying out loud wake up....

 

[Meister]

it works in every other modern country and it worked here before Reagan, brain washed functional moron.

Yeah...yeah it has.....

 

[francoHFW]

You need to move. We don’t need those with this mindset in this country. Had our forefathers thought the same, the US would never be in the enviable(yes, that is the case) position we are in now.

everyone in the world but the greedy idiot GOP knows that every one does a lot better with a healthy middle class and working class, Super Duper

Yeah...yeah it has.....

you have one bumper sticker argument and then you go all troll as all GOP based moron voters do....