Republicans introduce new health care bill This Week!

[JoeB131]

Yet, when Obama and the Democrats did just that, you were fine with it.

Wow... Here's the thing. I have a job that requires enough skill to get insurance.

Well post a link so I know WTF you're even talking about.

Potter vs Hanway: Cigna rebel tells all in book

Hanway left the company in 2008, at age 57, "with a $111 million retirement package" of stocks and cash, Potter writes. By then, Potter himself was gone.

Potter traces his final break with Cigna to the 2007 death of Nataline Sarkisyan, a sickly California teenager who Cigna initially turned down for a liver transplant. Her doctors protested, claiming to Cigna she had a nearly a two-thirds chance of living five years with the operation. But Cigna "was not persuaded that there was enough documented evidence" the operation "would be appropriate."

 

[frigidweirdo]

Which shows what? Shows that if you don't put enough money into something it won't work? Oh, what a surprise. The NHS has worked well. So....? Maybe it's just the US govt doesn't work, and isn't working on healthcare right now because it's too expensive.

Seems whichever way you look at it, there are massive problems, regardless of whether it's govt run or not.

Which has been my point all along. I can dig up plenty of stories and horror stories of countries with socialized healthcare. As much as people like to talk how great it is, they have plenty of their own problems too.

So instead of turning our great system into something everybody else has, it's time we make huge improvements to our system starting out with affordability.

Every time this subject is discussed, those on the left express so many concerns about the poor. Who cares about the poor? When we decide to give provisions to one group of people over another, we place a value on that group. Why is it the poor has a higher value than the working people?

It makes no sense because the poor get free healthcare via Medicaid, and working people who can't afford healthcare for themselves pay taxes so that the non-working are taken care of. Does that make sense to you? The poor contribute nothing to our society, in fact they don't contribute--they only take.

So I say step one is not to focus on the poor, and focus on the middle-class. Take from the poor if needed. When we working people can provide for ourselves, then we should look at the poor.

The problem is you can dig up something bad about EVERYTHING. I can do the same for the US healthcare system. In fact I've been doing it. The amount of money being spent on corruption is at the very least 3% of US GDP. Yes, 3% of all money in the US goes on healthcare corruption.

We could go on all day about showing things that don't work. Well, if both sides can fail, and do fail, then what do you do?

Okay, you want to start with affordability with the healthcare system. Well, clearly, the easiest place to start is with this is corruption. But you can't change this until you change the political system, because too many politicians want to keep things the way they are because too many people profit from this system and they take a slice of the pie.

You just said the poor aren't working people. Er... what? That's a bad place to start, because you're wrong.

You also seem to want to put people above other people. Why? Let's just make things a little more equal. People need healthcare. Not just those who aren't working, but everyone. Sure, if people want to pay more for better, then that's fine, but in the UK everyone has healthcare and it's cheaper. To make a good system you need to spend a certain amount, but it'd still be LOWER than what the US pays now.

No, don't focus on the Middle Class. Focus on the country as a whole.

Focus on the country as a whole means making wealthy and working people pay for services non-wealthy people get. After all, that's the only way it can work.......right?

There is no corruption that you speak of, and if there is, please provide evidence of it.

I didn't say put people over other people, what I said is the Democrats have already done this with Commie Care. But if we are to place value on groups of people, shouldn't the value of people who make this country work be larger than people that don't???

The point would be that health is important. Should a person not get health insurance simply because they're born not so smart? Doesn't really seem fair, does it?

It's not like health care is some kind of luxury, it's not like it's something people can do without.

Poorer people still work and that can make richer people richer. So why should rich people pay more? Is the US a society or is it just a "everyone for themselves"? Get rid of the police then. Everyone pays into a pot for the police, don't they? And then they all get the services of the police. Why not just have it where the rich pay for their own protection and the poor go without?

There is no corruption? Oh, come on.

The first level of corruption is with the US govt. The govt that is supposed to represent the people, and yet sets up a system which isn't designed for the people.

https://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/msparrow/documents--in use/Corruption in Health Care--The US Experience--TI Global Report on Corruption--2006--pp16-22.pdf

Here's an article about US healthcare corruption from Harvard. It appears to be from 2005.

"health care economists have traditionally paid very little attention to corruption, fraud, waste and abuse in the US health care delivery system. They do not factor it into their cost models, they say, because ‘there is no data on that’."

"As a risk to be controlled, fraud and corruption in the health care system exhibits all the standard challenges of white-collar crime: well orchestrated criminal schemes are invisible by design and often go undetected."

"Health care delivery is largely contracted out. Health care is mostly delivered by the private sector, or independent, not-for-profit entities. But the services are paid for by government programmes such as Medicare" "This means that payers have no reliable information about which services were performed, or were necessary, other than the word of the providers."

"
Fee-for-service structure and payment on trust.
Medical suppliers and providers constitute main loci of corruption.
Highly automated payment systems.
Absence of verification and focus on processing accuracy.
Multiple methods of cheating, and centrality of the false claims problem.
Poor measurement of overpayment rates.
Investments in control do not match the scale of the problem."

Study Exposes Corruption of U.S. Health Care, How Big Pharma Manufactures Consumer Demand

"
Study Exposes Corruption of U.S. Health Care, How Big Pharma Manufactures Consumer Demand"

Is the U.S. too corrupt for single-payer health care?

"
Is the U.S. too corrupt for single-payer health care?"

This is the argument you made, that because there is too much corruption things shouldn't change. Go figure.

My point is you want to surrender our healthcare system to the people responsible for the disaster that it is. I explained to you that I worked in the field for about ten years of my life. I seen it first hand.

As for police, everybody agrees we need law enforcement in our society. Everybody benefits even if they never use the police because simply having police is a deterrent to crime. Rich, poor, or anybody in between funds the police and fire departments with tax money usually deducted from their paychecks, property taxes, or both. Where I live, it's both. It doesn't matter if you work at McDonald's, deliver pizza, or own a business. Even if you rent, property taxes are one of the many things landlords set their rental prices on. There is no law that you have to have a police force. You can opt to not have one if voters don't want to fund it.

On the federal level, not everybody wants socialized medicine. In fact, most people don't. Before Commie Care, most people were happy with their healthcare. So what did Obama Care do? It was all politics. If you don't make very much money, you can get insurance perhaps for the first time in your life. If you are middle-class, upper middle-class or wealthy, you either couldn't afford the plans or you paid out of your ass to get one. The politics is the poor and lower income people generally vote Democrat.

So if we ever go to a socialized system, look for more of this "corruption" as you call it. Look for more politics too. After all, there are good doctors and good hospitals. There are not so good doctors and not so good hospitals. So which doctor and hospital do you want? Yeah.....me too. I want the good doctors and hospitals. So how do we decide who gets good medical care and who doesn't? Most likely it will depend on which party has the power at the time. If Democrats are running the show, the people who pay the least will get the best care, and the people who pay the most will get the worst.

And isn't it my point that you want to surrender the healthcare system to people who don't care either.

As for what you said about the police, why not for health? I mean it's hardly fair that someone is born and ends up with a serious problem and they get fucked over massively, is it? Same with all those other services.

Oh, come on, most people "don't want" socialized medicine because they're been TOLD not to want it. They wouldn't know the detailed ins and outs of socialized medicine at all. They have no idea what they're talking about, so they'll parrot some politician getting a shit load of money from the healthcare industry to do as they are told. Oh, great.

You want the good hospital and the good doctor? Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and good hospitals? At the moment it's based on what you can pay. Oh, great. So, if you have problems that prevent you working, you're not going to be able to go to see a good doctor in a good hospital, you won't get better, won't be able to work... see where this is going?

We could go on and on all the time like this.

The point is that the rich get it good, the poor get fucked over. The rich clearly run the USA govt, and the rich clearly get whatever they want, hence why the system massively benefits the rich. Don't you see the problem there?

Also, how much do you know about the NHS, because you seem to be able to dismiss everything the NHS has done, without ever saying what it hasn't done.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Wow... Here's the thing. I have a job that requires enough skill to get insurance.

So did I until big ears and the other commies decided to ruin healthcare for the entire country.

Potter vs Hanway: Cigna rebel tells all in book

Hanway left the company in 2008, at age 57, "with a $111 million retirement package" of stocks and cash, Potter writes. By then, Potter himself was gone.

Potter traces his final break with Cigna to the 2007 death of Nataline Sarkisyan, a sickly California teenager who Cigna initially turned down for a liver transplant. Her doctors protested, claiming to Cigna she had a nearly a two-thirds chance of living five years with the operation. But Cigna "was not persuaded that there was enough documented evidence" the operation "would be appropriate."

I knew there had to be another side to this story. There is, and can be found in a book written by a Dr Richard Young. In it, he goes into further explanation of Cigna's decision.

According to the doctor, the 17 year old had a 65% of surviving six months after the transplant. Because of the combined cancer and the liver problem, it was considered experimental by the insurance company which does not cover experimental treatment.

Due to the legal threats and media attention, Cigna decided to make an exception and pay for it in spite of it not being covered. By the time they notified the family, the family had instructed her care givers to remove all life sustaining equipment and allow her to die naturally.

American Healthscare

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As for what you said about the police, why not for health? I mean it's hardly fair that someone is born and ends up with a serious problem and they get fucked over massively, is it? Same with all those other services.

Again, the difference is a majority (if not all people) want a police force and are willing to pay for it equally. That's just not the case with healthcare.

You want the good hospital and the good doctor? Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and good hospitals? At the moment it's based on what you can pay. Oh, great. So, if you have problems that prevent you working, you're not going to be able to go to see a good doctor in a good hospital, you won't get better, won't be able to work... see where this is going?

Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and hospitals? Because there are not enough of them to go around. If you have socialized healthcare, people will be running to the doctor every time they sneeze or cough. It will make things much worse. Medical care is already overwhelmed with business even with those not so good doctors and hospitals. So then it becomes a question of who gets them, and politics comes into play for that decision.

I myself go to good doctors and a good hospital. But if I want to see a specialist, I have to make an appointment nearly a year ahead of time, and even then, you don't get much of a choice of days or time. You take what they give you. My family doctor? A month and a half before you get an appointment.

The point is that the rich get it good, the poor get fucked over. The rich clearly run the USA govt, and the rich clearly get whatever they want, hence why the system massively benefits the rich. Don't you see the problem there?

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what they have the money for. The rich will always have it good. It's the working middle class that gets screwed over.

The rich don't run the country. If the rich ran the country, the top 20% of wage earners would not be paying nearly 85% of all collected income taxes. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have 10% of the environmental regulations we have today that helped chase jobs overseas.

 

[frigidweirdo]

As for what you said about the police, why not for health? I mean it's hardly fair that someone is born and ends up with a serious problem and they get fucked over massively, is it? Same with all those other services.

Again, the difference is a majority (if not all people) want a police force and are willing to pay for it equally. That's just not the case with healthcare.

You want the good hospital and the good doctor? Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and good hospitals? At the moment it's based on what you can pay. Oh, great. So, if you have problems that prevent you working, you're not going to be able to go to see a good doctor in a good hospital, you won't get better, won't be able to work... see where this is going?

Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and hospitals? Because there are not enough of them to go around. If you have socialized healthcare, people will be running to the doctor every time they sneeze or cough. It will make things much worse. Medical care is already overwhelmed with business even with those not so good doctors and hospitals. So then it becomes a question of who gets them, and politics comes into play for that decision.

I myself go to good doctors and a good hospital. But if I want to see a specialist, I have to make an appointment nearly a year ahead of time, and even then, you don't get much of a choice of days or time. You take what they give you. My family doctor? A month and a half before you get an appointment.

The point is that the rich get it good, the poor get fucked over. The rich clearly run the USA govt, and the rich clearly get whatever they want, hence why the system massively benefits the rich. Don't you see the problem there?

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what they have the money for. The rich will always have it good. It's the working middle class that gets screwed over.

The rich don't run the country. If the rich ran the country, the top 20% of wage earners would not be paying nearly 85% of all collected income taxes. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have 10% of the environmental regulations we have today that helped chase jobs overseas.

Again, do the people know what they want? Do the people have a voice to say what they want? Who told you the majority doesn't want this? I've met lots of people who are sick of paying massively over the odds for healthcare.

You're saying people will run to the doctor every time they have a cold with socialized healthcare. You have anything to back this up with?

So you're telling me the US is so great, and you have to wait ages to see a doctor. Hmm.... great. That makes it sound amazing.

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what their money can afford. Do you know how much cancer costs to treat? On average like $60,000. So some cases will be $100,000. You think the poor can put away $100,000? So they don't get fucked? Yes they bloody well do. But hey, you know, the rich tell you what to think and like Paul said, why should the healthy pay for the ill? And then turned around and said "the healthy will then pay for the ill anyway.

Oh come on, we're not talking about those who earn a decent living when we're talking about the rich. We're talking about those rich people who have enough money to buy politicians. Don't play those sill games.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You mean he provided you shit insurance that didn't really cover anything, and when he couldn't get away with that anymore... he stopped. And you blame the black guy.

Yes I do, because if the black guy never invaded the White House, my employer would have been forced to continue coverage and I would still have it today.

Again, if this guy gave a shit about his employees, he'd find a way to provide you with decent insurance. My guess, you still won't have insurance even after Trump works through whatever his replacement will be.

That remains to be seen. One thing for sure, it can't get any worse.

Oh, man, if this isn't a Stockholm Syndrome Conservative, I don't know what is. or maybe a battered housewife conservative. Someone else is always responsible for the bad behavior of the 1%. If those damned liberals hadn't demand fair wages and clean water, they totally wouldn't have moved their factory.

Yes, because we Republicans don't care about clean air and clean water. We breathe and drink different stuff than you.

Well I have bad news for ya, and that is with the trillions of dollars we spent on "green" in this country, you leftists are still complaining about the air and water. So now you're still unhappy and we have less jobs. That's what a liberal considers an accomplishment.

And yet you can't get a job that pays decent health care with all this demand?

Salaries. For 2017-18, starting salaries for teachers will range from $54,000 (bachelor's degree, no prior teaching experience) to $81,694 (master's degree, eight years teaching experience, plus additional coursework). New teachers with a master's degree but no prior teaching experience earned $60,704.

Salary & Benefits | Apply to Teach in New York City Public Schools

Okay, buddy, please show me what kind of creative math you come up with where a "loser" can make that kind of money in NYC.

Certainly:

Study: NY Welfare Recipients Eligible For More In Benefits Than Teachers Earn - Breitbart

Why are we still doing drug tests for pot? At all?

And frankly, do you know what child care costs these days?

Yes I do. It's one of the reasons I never had children. I know you liberals will never understand this, but children are actually an option. Nobody has to have children.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As for what you said about the police, why not for health? I mean it's hardly fair that someone is born and ends up with a serious problem and they get fucked over massively, is it? Same with all those other services.

Again, the difference is a majority (if not all people) want a police force and are willing to pay for it equally. That's just not the case with healthcare.

You want the good hospital and the good doctor? Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and good hospitals? At the moment it's based on what you can pay. Oh, great. So, if you have problems that prevent you working, you're not going to be able to go to see a good doctor in a good hospital, you won't get better, won't be able to work... see where this is going?

Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and hospitals? Because there are not enough of them to go around. If you have socialized healthcare, people will be running to the doctor every time they sneeze or cough. It will make things much worse. Medical care is already overwhelmed with business even with those not so good doctors and hospitals. So then it becomes a question of who gets them, and politics comes into play for that decision.

I myself go to good doctors and a good hospital. But if I want to see a specialist, I have to make an appointment nearly a year ahead of time, and even then, you don't get much of a choice of days or time. You take what they give you. My family doctor? A month and a half before you get an appointment.

The point is that the rich get it good, the poor get fucked over. The rich clearly run the USA govt, and the rich clearly get whatever they want, hence why the system massively benefits the rich. Don't you see the problem there?

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what they have the money for. The rich will always have it good. It's the working middle class that gets screwed over.

The rich don't run the country. If the rich ran the country, the top 20% of wage earners would not be paying nearly 85% of all collected income taxes. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have 10% of the environmental regulations we have today that helped chase jobs overseas.

Again, do the people know what they want? Do the people have a voice to say what they want? Who told you the majority doesn't want this? I've met lots of people who are sick of paying massively over the odds for healthcare.

You're saying people will run to the doctor every time they have a cold with socialized healthcare. You have anything to back this up with?

So you're telling me the US is so great, and you have to wait ages to see a doctor. Hmm.... great. That makes it sound amazing.

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what their money can afford. Do you know how much cancer costs to treat? On average like $60,000. So some cases will be $100,000. You think the poor can put away $100,000? So they don't get fucked? Yes they bloody well do. But hey, you know, the rich tell you what to think and like Paul said, why should the healthy pay for the ill? And then turned around and said "the healthy will then pay for the ill anyway.

Oh come on, we're not talking about those who earn a decent living when we're talking about the rich. We're talking about those rich people who have enough money to buy politicians. Don't play those sill games.

What games? I just gave you evidence how the rich DO NOT control our government and you have yet to provide proof of how they do.

Don't worry about the poor. We working class who do not have coverage pay for the poor that have cancer. This is the way the liberal system is set up: if you have money, you can afford to get heath care. If you are poor, you get health care other people pay for. If you are a working stiff, too bad. You die or go into bankruptcy. It's your own damn fault for being a productive member of our society.

Long Canadian wait times send patients south for surgery | Video

Contrary to goals, ER visits rise under Obamacare

 

[frigidweirdo]

As for what you said about the police, why not for health? I mean it's hardly fair that someone is born and ends up with a serious problem and they get fucked over massively, is it? Same with all those other services.

Again, the difference is a majority (if not all people) want a police force and are willing to pay for it equally. That's just not the case with healthcare.

You want the good hospital and the good doctor? Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and good hospitals? At the moment it's based on what you can pay. Oh, great. So, if you have problems that prevent you working, you're not going to be able to go to see a good doctor in a good hospital, you won't get better, won't be able to work... see where this is going?

Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and hospitals? Because there are not enough of them to go around. If you have socialized healthcare, people will be running to the doctor every time they sneeze or cough. It will make things much worse. Medical care is already overwhelmed with business even with those not so good doctors and hospitals. So then it becomes a question of who gets them, and politics comes into play for that decision.

I myself go to good doctors and a good hospital. But if I want to see a specialist, I have to make an appointment nearly a year ahead of time, and even then, you don't get much of a choice of days or time. You take what they give you. My family doctor? A month and a half before you get an appointment.

The point is that the rich get it good, the poor get fucked over. The rich clearly run the USA govt, and the rich clearly get whatever they want, hence why the system massively benefits the rich. Don't you see the problem there?

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what they have the money for. The rich will always have it good. It's the working middle class that gets screwed over.

The rich don't run the country. If the rich ran the country, the top 20% of wage earners would not be paying nearly 85% of all collected income taxes. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have 10% of the environmental regulations we have today that helped chase jobs overseas.

Again, do the people know what they want? Do the people have a voice to say what they want? Who told you the majority doesn't want this? I've met lots of people who are sick of paying massively over the odds for healthcare.

You're saying people will run to the doctor every time they have a cold with socialized healthcare. You have anything to back this up with?

So you're telling me the US is so great, and you have to wait ages to see a doctor. Hmm.... great. That makes it sound amazing.

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what their money can afford. Do you know how much cancer costs to treat? On average like $60,000. So some cases will be $100,000. You think the poor can put away $100,000? So they don't get fucked? Yes they bloody well do. But hey, you know, the rich tell you what to think and like Paul said, why should the healthy pay for the ill? And then turned around and said "the healthy will then pay for the ill anyway.

Oh come on, we're not talking about those who earn a decent living when we're talking about the rich. We're talking about those rich people who have enough money to buy politicians. Don't play those sill games.

What games? I just gave you evidence how the rich DO NOT control our government and you have yet to provide proof of how they do.

Don't worry about the poor. We working class who do not have coverage pay for the poor that have cancer. This is the way the liberal system is set up: if you have money, you can afford to get heath care. If you are poor, you get health care other people pay for. If you are a working stiff, too bad. You die or go into bankruptcy. It's your own damn fault for being a productive member of our society.

Long Canadian wait times send patients south for surgery | Video

Contrary to goals, ER visits rise under Obamacare

Not at all. You basically made a slight attempt at proving it, and didn't use much, or anything to do so, and you misrepresented it.

Don't worry about the poor, they're just paying way over the odds for healthcare....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As for what you said about the police, why not for health? I mean it's hardly fair that someone is born and ends up with a serious problem and they get fucked over massively, is it? Same with all those other services.

Again, the difference is a majority (if not all people) want a police force and are willing to pay for it equally. That's just not the case with healthcare.

You want the good hospital and the good doctor? Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and good hospitals? At the moment it's based on what you can pay. Oh, great. So, if you have problems that prevent you working, you're not going to be able to go to see a good doctor in a good hospital, you won't get better, won't be able to work... see where this is going?

Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and hospitals? Because there are not enough of them to go around. If you have socialized healthcare, people will be running to the doctor every time they sneeze or cough. It will make things much worse. Medical care is already overwhelmed with business even with those not so good doctors and hospitals. So then it becomes a question of who gets them, and politics comes into play for that decision.

I myself go to good doctors and a good hospital. But if I want to see a specialist, I have to make an appointment nearly a year ahead of time, and even then, you don't get much of a choice of days or time. You take what they give you. My family doctor? A month and a half before you get an appointment.

The point is that the rich get it good, the poor get fucked over. The rich clearly run the USA govt, and the rich clearly get whatever they want, hence why the system massively benefits the rich. Don't you see the problem there?

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what they have the money for. The rich will always have it good. It's the working middle class that gets screwed over.

The rich don't run the country. If the rich ran the country, the top 20% of wage earners would not be paying nearly 85% of all collected income taxes. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have 10% of the environmental regulations we have today that helped chase jobs overseas.

Again, do the people know what they want? Do the people have a voice to say what they want? Who told you the majority doesn't want this? I've met lots of people who are sick of paying massively over the odds for healthcare.

You're saying people will run to the doctor every time they have a cold with socialized healthcare. You have anything to back this up with?

So you're telling me the US is so great, and you have to wait ages to see a doctor. Hmm.... great. That makes it sound amazing.

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what their money can afford. Do you know how much cancer costs to treat? On average like $60,000. So some cases will be $100,000. You think the poor can put away $100,000? So they don't get fucked? Yes they bloody well do. But hey, you know, the rich tell you what to think and like Paul said, why should the healthy pay for the ill? And then turned around and said "the healthy will then pay for the ill anyway.

Oh come on, we're not talking about those who earn a decent living when we're talking about the rich. We're talking about those rich people who have enough money to buy politicians. Don't play those sill games.

What games? I just gave you evidence how the rich DO NOT control our government and you have yet to provide proof of how they do.

Don't worry about the poor. We working class who do not have coverage pay for the poor that have cancer. This is the way the liberal system is set up: if you have money, you can afford to get heath care. If you are poor, you get health care other people pay for. If you are a working stiff, too bad. You die or go into bankruptcy. It's your own damn fault for being a productive member of our society.

Long Canadian wait times send patients south for surgery | Video

Contrary to goals, ER visits rise under Obamacare

Not at all. You basically made a slight attempt at proving it, and didn't use much, or anything to do so, and you misrepresented it.

Don't worry about the poor, they're just paying way over the odds for healthcare....

The poor don't worry about healthcare, they don't worry about where to live, they don't worry about eating, and they don't even worry about paying their utility bills. The rest of us are paying all that for ourselves and them.

 

[frigidweirdo]

As for what you said about the police, why not for health? I mean it's hardly fair that someone is born and ends up with a serious problem and they get fucked over massively, is it? Same with all those other services.

Again, the difference is a majority (if not all people) want a police force and are willing to pay for it equally. That's just not the case with healthcare.

You want the good hospital and the good doctor? Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and good hospitals? At the moment it's based on what you can pay. Oh, great. So, if you have problems that prevent you working, you're not going to be able to go to see a good doctor in a good hospital, you won't get better, won't be able to work... see where this is going?

Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and hospitals? Because there are not enough of them to go around. If you have socialized healthcare, people will be running to the doctor every time they sneeze or cough. It will make things much worse. Medical care is already overwhelmed with business even with those not so good doctors and hospitals. So then it becomes a question of who gets them, and politics comes into play for that decision.

I myself go to good doctors and a good hospital. But if I want to see a specialist, I have to make an appointment nearly a year ahead of time, and even then, you don't get much of a choice of days or time. You take what they give you. My family doctor? A month and a half before you get an appointment.

The point is that the rich get it good, the poor get fucked over. The rich clearly run the USA govt, and the rich clearly get whatever they want, hence why the system massively benefits the rich. Don't you see the problem there?

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what they have the money for. The rich will always have it good. It's the working middle class that gets screwed over.

The rich don't run the country. If the rich ran the country, the top 20% of wage earners would not be paying nearly 85% of all collected income taxes. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have 10% of the environmental regulations we have today that helped chase jobs overseas.

Again, do the people know what they want? Do the people have a voice to say what they want? Who told you the majority doesn't want this? I've met lots of people who are sick of paying massively over the odds for healthcare.

You're saying people will run to the doctor every time they have a cold with socialized healthcare. You have anything to back this up with?

So you're telling me the US is so great, and you have to wait ages to see a doctor. Hmm.... great. That makes it sound amazing.

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what their money can afford. Do you know how much cancer costs to treat? On average like $60,000. So some cases will be $100,000. You think the poor can put away $100,000? So they don't get fucked? Yes they bloody well do. But hey, you know, the rich tell you what to think and like Paul said, why should the healthy pay for the ill? And then turned around and said "the healthy will then pay for the ill anyway.

Oh come on, we're not talking about those who earn a decent living when we're talking about the rich. We're talking about those rich people who have enough money to buy politicians. Don't play those sill games.

What games? I just gave you evidence how the rich DO NOT control our government and you have yet to provide proof of how they do.

Don't worry about the poor. We working class who do not have coverage pay for the poor that have cancer. This is the way the liberal system is set up: if you have money, you can afford to get heath care. If you are poor, you get health care other people pay for. If you are a working stiff, too bad. You die or go into bankruptcy. It's your own damn fault for being a productive member of our society.

Long Canadian wait times send patients south for surgery | Video

Contrary to goals, ER visits rise under Obamacare

Not at all. You basically made a slight attempt at proving it, and didn't use much, or anything to do so, and you misrepresented it.

Don't worry about the poor, they're just paying way over the odds for healthcare....

The poor don't worry about healthcare, they don't worry about where to live, they don't worry about eating, and they don't even worry about paying their utility bills. The rest of us are paying all that for ourselves and them.

Oh really? Yeah, the poor are living a life of luxury, no worries, no problems. Get real.

 

[brummelben]

As for what you said about the police, why not for health? I mean it's hardly fair that someone is born and ends up with a serious problem and they get fucked over massively, is it? Same with all those other services.

Again, the difference is a majority (if not all people) want a police force and are willing to pay for it equally. That's just not the case with healthcare.

You want the good hospital and the good doctor? Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and good hospitals? At the moment it's based on what you can pay. Oh, great. So, if you have problems that prevent you working, you're not going to be able to go to see a good doctor in a good hospital, you won't get better, won't be able to work... see where this is going?

Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and hospitals? Because there are not enough of them to go around. If you have socialized healthcare, people will be running to the doctor every time they sneeze or cough. It will make things much worse. Medical care is already overwhelmed with business even with those not so good doctors and hospitals. So then it becomes a question of who gets them, and politics comes into play for that decision.

I myself go to good doctors and a good hospital. But if I want to see a specialist, I have to make an appointment nearly a year ahead of time, and even then, you don't get much of a choice of days or time. You take what they give you. My family doctor? A month and a half before you get an appointment.

The point is that the rich get it good, the poor get fucked over. The rich clearly run the USA govt, and the rich clearly get whatever they want, hence why the system massively benefits the rich. Don't you see the problem there?

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what they have the money for. The rich will always have it good. It's the working middle class that gets screwed over.

The rich don't run the country. If the rich ran the country, the top 20% of wage earners would not be paying nearly 85% of all collected income taxes. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have 10% of the environmental regulations we have today that helped chase jobs overseas.

We dont have the highest tax rate in the world. Just how long will you continue to spew that bullshyte. Try reading and stop listening to right wing lies

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As for what you said about the police, why not for health? I mean it's hardly fair that someone is born and ends up with a serious problem and they get fucked over massively, is it? Same with all those other services.

Again, the difference is a majority (if not all people) want a police force and are willing to pay for it equally. That's just not the case with healthcare.

You want the good hospital and the good doctor? Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and good hospitals? At the moment it's based on what you can pay. Oh, great. So, if you have problems that prevent you working, you're not going to be able to go to see a good doctor in a good hospital, you won't get better, won't be able to work... see where this is going?

Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and hospitals? Because there are not enough of them to go around. If you have socialized healthcare, people will be running to the doctor every time they sneeze or cough. It will make things much worse. Medical care is already overwhelmed with business even with those not so good doctors and hospitals. So then it becomes a question of who gets them, and politics comes into play for that decision.

I myself go to good doctors and a good hospital. But if I want to see a specialist, I have to make an appointment nearly a year ahead of time, and even then, you don't get much of a choice of days or time. You take what they give you. My family doctor? A month and a half before you get an appointment.

The point is that the rich get it good, the poor get fucked over. The rich clearly run the USA govt, and the rich clearly get whatever they want, hence why the system massively benefits the rich. Don't you see the problem there?

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what they have the money for. The rich will always have it good. It's the working middle class that gets screwed over.

The rich don't run the country. If the rich ran the country, the top 20% of wage earners would not be paying nearly 85% of all collected income taxes. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have 10% of the environmental regulations we have today that helped chase jobs overseas.

We dont have the highest tax rate in the world. Just how long will you continue to spew that bullshyte. Try reading and stop listening to right wing lies

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Again, the difference is a majority (if not all people) want a police force and are willing to pay for it equally. That's just not the case with healthcare.

Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and hospitals? Because there are not enough of them to go around. If you have socialized healthcare, people will be running to the doctor every time they sneeze or cough. It will make things much worse. Medical care is already overwhelmed with business even with those not so good doctors and hospitals. So then it becomes a question of who gets them, and politics comes into play for that decision.

I myself go to good doctors and a good hospital. But if I want to see a specialist, I have to make an appointment nearly a year ahead of time, and even then, you don't get much of a choice of days or time. You take what they give you. My family doctor? A month and a half before you get an appointment.

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what they have the money for. The rich will always have it good. It's the working middle class that gets screwed over.

The rich don't run the country. If the rich ran the country, the top 20% of wage earners would not be paying nearly 85% of all collected income taxes. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have 10% of the environmental regulations we have today that helped chase jobs overseas.

Again, do the people know what they want? Do the people have a voice to say what they want? Who told you the majority doesn't want this? I've met lots of people who are sick of paying massively over the odds for healthcare.

You're saying people will run to the doctor every time they have a cold with socialized healthcare. You have anything to back this up with?

So you're telling me the US is so great, and you have to wait ages to see a doctor. Hmm.... great. That makes it sound amazing.

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what their money can afford. Do you know how much cancer costs to treat? On average like $60,000. So some cases will be $100,000. You think the poor can put away $100,000? So they don't get fucked? Yes they bloody well do. But hey, you know, the rich tell you what to think and like Paul said, why should the healthy pay for the ill? And then turned around and said "the healthy will then pay for the ill anyway.

Oh come on, we're not talking about those who earn a decent living when we're talking about the rich. We're talking about those rich people who have enough money to buy politicians. Don't play those sill games.

What games? I just gave you evidence how the rich DO NOT control our government and you have yet to provide proof of how they do.

Don't worry about the poor. We working class who do not have coverage pay for the poor that have cancer. This is the way the liberal system is set up: if you have money, you can afford to get heath care. If you are poor, you get health care other people pay for. If you are a working stiff, too bad. You die or go into bankruptcy. It's your own damn fault for being a productive member of our society.

Long Canadian wait times send patients south for surgery | Video

Contrary to goals, ER visits rise under Obamacare

Not at all. You basically made a slight attempt at proving it, and didn't use much, or anything to do so, and you misrepresented it.

Don't worry about the poor, they're just paying way over the odds for healthcare....

The poor don't worry about healthcare, they don't worry about where to live, they don't worry about eating, and they don't even worry about paying their utility bills. The rest of us are paying all that for ourselves and them.

Oh really? Yeah, the poor are living a life of luxury, no worries, no problems. Get real.

They certainly don't have the problems we working people have. Just ask my next door HUD neighbors. But don't knock on their door until 11:00 am. They don't get up until then.

 

[frigidweirdo]

As for what you said about the police, why not for health? I mean it's hardly fair that someone is born and ends up with a serious problem and they get fucked over massively, is it? Same with all those other services.

Again, the difference is a majority (if not all people) want a police force and are willing to pay for it equally. That's just not the case with healthcare.

You want the good hospital and the good doctor? Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and good hospitals? At the moment it's based on what you can pay. Oh, great. So, if you have problems that prevent you working, you're not going to be able to go to see a good doctor in a good hospital, you won't get better, won't be able to work... see where this is going?

Why shouldn't everyone get good doctors and hospitals? Because there are not enough of them to go around. If you have socialized healthcare, people will be running to the doctor every time they sneeze or cough. It will make things much worse. Medical care is already overwhelmed with business even with those not so good doctors and hospitals. So then it becomes a question of who gets them, and politics comes into play for that decision.

I myself go to good doctors and a good hospital. But if I want to see a specialist, I have to make an appointment nearly a year ahead of time, and even then, you don't get much of a choice of days or time. You take what they give you. My family doctor? A month and a half before you get an appointment.

The point is that the rich get it good, the poor get fucked over. The rich clearly run the USA govt, and the rich clearly get whatever they want, hence why the system massively benefits the rich. Don't you see the problem there?

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what they have the money for. The rich will always have it good. It's the working middle class that gets screwed over.

The rich don't run the country. If the rich ran the country, the top 20% of wage earners would not be paying nearly 85% of all collected income taxes. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. If the rich ran the country, we wouldn't have 10% of the environmental regulations we have today that helped chase jobs overseas.

We dont have the highest tax rate in the world. Just how long will you continue to spew that bullshyte. Try reading and stop listening to right wing lies

View attachment 116442

Which means what when many of the richer companies get massive tax breaks? Everyone knows there's a massive difference between the tax levels and the amount of tax coming in in the USA.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Again, do the people know what they want? Do the people have a voice to say what they want? Who told you the majority doesn't want this? I've met lots of people who are sick of paying massively over the odds for healthcare.

You're saying people will run to the doctor every time they have a cold with socialized healthcare. You have anything to back this up with?

So you're telling me the US is so great, and you have to wait ages to see a doctor. Hmm.... great. That makes it sound amazing.

The poor don't get fucked over, they get what their money can afford. Do you know how much cancer costs to treat? On average like $60,000. So some cases will be $100,000. You think the poor can put away $100,000? So they don't get fucked? Yes they bloody well do. But hey, you know, the rich tell you what to think and like Paul said, why should the healthy pay for the ill? And then turned around and said "the healthy will then pay for the ill anyway.

Oh come on, we're not talking about those who earn a decent living when we're talking about the rich. We're talking about those rich people who have enough money to buy politicians. Don't play those sill games.

What games? I just gave you evidence how the rich DO NOT control our government and you have yet to provide proof of how they do.

Don't worry about the poor. We working class who do not have coverage pay for the poor that have cancer. This is the way the liberal system is set up: if you have money, you can afford to get heath care. If you are poor, you get health care other people pay for. If you are a working stiff, too bad. You die or go into bankruptcy. It's your own damn fault for being a productive member of our society.

Long Canadian wait times send patients south for surgery | Video

Contrary to goals, ER visits rise under Obamacare

Not at all. You basically made a slight attempt at proving it, and didn't use much, or anything to do so, and you misrepresented it.

Don't worry about the poor, they're just paying way over the odds for healthcare....

The poor don't worry about healthcare, they don't worry about where to live, they don't worry about eating, and they don't even worry about paying their utility bills. The rest of us are paying all that for ourselves and them.

Oh really? Yeah, the poor are living a life of luxury, no worries, no problems. Get real.

They certainly don't have the problems we working people have. Just ask my next door HUD neighbors. But don't knock on their door until 11:00 am. They don't get up until then.

I'm still confused by your use of the word "poor". I was brought up poor, but my parents both worked.

 

[frigidweirdo]

As an American doctor who recently visited A&E I have a message for British people

"
To receive this care all my cousin had to do was provide her name and birthdate. No co-payments, no pre-authorisations, no concerns about the radiologist or orthopaedic surgeon being out of network. The nursing triage was wonderful and actually doing nursing (I hate seeing nurses relegated to charting). The nurse practitioner clearly knew what she was talking about and had reviewed the films with the radiologist. The surgeon only did the part of my cousin’s care that needed a specialist. It was a great use of resources.

Everyone I spoke with at the hospital loved the NHS, and honestly it showed. While the hospital was a veritable maze and in need of the updating that they appeared to be doing, the equipment was fine and the people, i.e. the things that really matter, were great."

 

[JoeB131]

So did I until big ears and the other commies decided to ruin healthcare for the entire country.

Well, no, you had a shitty plan that obviously didn't even qualify under the ACA's fairly low standards.

I knew there had to be another side to this story. There is, and can be found in a book written by a Dr Richard Young. In it, he goes into further explanation of Cigna's decision.

According to the doctor, the 17 year old had a 65% of surviving six months after the transplant. Because of the combined cancer and the liver problem, it was considered experimental by the insurance company which does not cover experimental treatment.

Due to the legal threats and media attention, Cigna decided to make an exception and pay for it in spite of it not being covered. By the time they notified the family, the family had instructed her care givers to remove all life sustaining equipment and allow her to die naturally.

You think a 65% chance is a bad thing? the point was, her father had paid for insurance, and it wasn't a new technology that had never been tried before.

Cigna thought they could get away with this shit because no one was paying attention.

 

[JoeB131]

Certainly:

Study: NY Welfare Recipients Eligible For More In Benefits Than Teachers Earn - Breitbart

Dude!!! Breitbart? Are you fucking serious?

Okay, can you please show me a REAL news source that proves that welfare people are getting more than Public School teachers.

Thanks.

Yes I do. It's one of the reasons I never had children. I know you liberals will never understand this, but children are actually an option. Nobody has to have children.

so let me get this straight. You are too poor to have kids. You are too poor to get a good job that provides decent health insurance. But somehow, you think your life is good, or would be if they weren't giving free stuff to them welfare people?

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, because we Republicans don't care about clean air and clean water. We breathe and drink different stuff than you.

Well, you see this is where you are confused.

The rich who are calling the shots are going to live in nice places where the water and air are clean.

The poor dumb white trash like you who keep voting Republican because they are right with Jesus and will keep them darkies in line, you keep sucking up that dirty air and water and wonder why the Cayahuga river caught on fire.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes, because we Republicans don't care about clean air and clean water. We breathe and drink different stuff than you.

Well, you see this is where you are confused.

The rich who are calling the shots are going to live in nice places where the water and air are clean.

The poor dumb white trash like you who keep voting Republican because they are right with Jesus and will keep them darkies in line, you keep sucking up that dirty air and water and wonder why the Cayahuga river caught on fire.

When the river caught on fire, it was not because of some dreamt up fairytale. Water doesn't catch on fire, only chemicals do. The theory was those chemicals would eventually be absorbed by the great lakes and dissipate where nobody would know the difference. it was a flawed theory, so once the evidence was in, we had to do something about it.

Unlike global warming which is nothing but theories, we had empirical evidence of what was going on.