Rolling Stone: Repeal Second Amendment

[Ray From Cleveland]

- As to the race thing, saying gun deaths are a social problem doesn't change anything. If you have social problems having stricter gun laws is not a bad idea in fact it makes it an even better idea.
-Ah the whole i need a gun argument. I have a couple of things to say to that. First of all, I'm personally of the opinion that my TV isn't worth a life. Let's face it someone robbing your house in general just wants your possesions it's very uncommon to get assaulted by a burglar. In most of those cases chances are you are gonna be suprised and unless you sleep with your gun under your pillow ( which would raise questions to your sanity) having a gun won't do shit. What is more common is that you or a member of your family is gonna be involved in an accidental shooting.

Well then I guess my sanity must be in question. I have a loaded .357 in the headboard compartment of my bed ready and willing for any uninvited guests that may wish to drop by.

The reason you are probably safe in your home is because you may have one too. It's just the criminal doesn't know it. A criminals dream is a totally disarmed society. That's because criminals will never give up their guns like this fantasy people have in their heads when they talk about more gun restrictions. That would leave us with an armed criminal element and a disarmed society.

Your TV set may not be worth a life, but mine is, and that should be my choice. I don't care if somebody breaks into my home and steals an ashtray or my computer. Once you break into my house, you better give your heart to Jesus because your ass is mine.

In my state, the same rules apply to your vehicle as your home. If somebody tries to break into my car for whatever reason, I have the legal right to gun him down right there. I don't care if he's breaking in to steal my wallet or the entire car. Once that window is shattered while I'm occupying the vehicle, his momma is going to be crying that night.

 

[forkup]

- As to the race thing, saying gun deaths are a social problem doesn't change anything. If you have social problems having stricter gun laws is not a bad idea in fact it makes it an even better idea.
-Ah the whole i need a gun argument. I have a couple of things to say to that. First of all, I'm personally of the opinion that my TV isn't worth a life. Let's face it someone robbing your house in general just wants your possesions it's very uncommon to get assaulted by a burglar. In most of those cases chances are you are gonna be suprised and unless you sleep with your gun under your pillow ( which would raise questions to your sanity) having a gun won't do shit. What is more common is that you or a member of your family is gonna be involved in an accidental shooting.

Well then I guess my sanity must be in question. I have a loaded .357 in the headboard compartment of my bed ready and willing for any uninvited guests that may wish to drop by.

The reason you are probably safe in your home is because you may have one too. It's just the criminal doesn't know it. A criminals dream is a totally disarmed society. That's because criminals will never give up their guns like this fantasy people have in their heads when they talk about more gun restrictions. That would leave us with an armed criminal element and a disarmed society.

Your TV set may not be worth a life, but mine is, and that should be my choice. I don't care if somebody breaks into my home and steals an ashtray or my computer. Once you break into my house, you better give your heart to Jesus because your ass is mine.

In my state, the same rules apply to your vehicle as your home. If somebody tries to break into my car for whatever reason, I have the legal right to gun him down right there. I don't care if he's breaking in to steal my wallet or the entire car. Once that window is shattered while I'm occupying the vehicle, his momma is going to be crying that night.

Their is a reason that in modern society victims of a crime don't sit in a judgement of the perpetrators. You just gave it. You feel you have a right to kill somebody who takes something of you. Hell even the bible sais an eye for an eye, not a life for an eye lol. And in Islam theft is punished by taking a hand. So your sense of justice goes beyond biblical. Good luck with having a loaded gun in the headboard of your bed. As I said before the chance of you using it against burglars, statisticly pails in comparison that you, or a member of your family will use it on oneanother. And since you keep it both, nice and accessible and loaded, I do question your sanity.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Their is a reason that in modern society victims of a crime don't sit in a judgement of the perpetrators. You just gave it. You feel you have a right to kill somebody who takes something of you. Hell even the bible sais an eye for an eye, not a life for an eye lol. And in Islam theft is punished by taking a hand. So your sense of justice goes beyond biblical. Good luck with having a loaded gun in the headboard of your bed. As I said before the chance of you using it against burglars, statisticly pails in comparison that you, or a member of your family will use it on oneanother. And since you keep it both, nice and accessible and loaded, I do question your sanity.

Right, I'm sure you question anybody's sanity that does't agree with you. I know your kind.

If somebody breaks into my home (or car) I have no idea what they want. All I know is they invaded my space and yes, that is enough for me to kill them. They may not be there to steal anything. They may be there because of mental problems and had a dispute with me ten years ago about something. They may be intoxicated and think they were breaking into their girlfriends house by accident. They may be there because they are an enemy with one of my tenants, but they picked the wrong apartment. It doesn't matter. Paint is not all that expensive.

I had some people from the middle-east open up a store near my home many years ago. I used to go there all the time. One night I went there and two police cars were in the parking lot. After they left, I asked the young clerk what happened.

He said some drunk came in, stole some cigarettes off the counter and left. The police told him if the guy ever returns, to give them a call and they will kick him out of the store; that's all they will do.

He said his grandmother wrote him and asked about his new environment in the US. So he sent her our local paper. She wrote back with great concern. In her letter, she stated we had more theft in our little suburb in one week than the entire middle-east has in a years time. I asked him if that were true, and he concurred.

He said where he's from they had outdoor markets. They had tables and chairs for shoppers to rest. He said if a woman lay her purse on a table and left, it would probably be there the next day. That's because over there, if you steal anything, off comes your hand. If you steal a second time, off comes your other hand. There really is no third time.

He said that's why in the US, people steal everything including police cars. In the middle-east if you are a man with only one hand, you are shunned by everybody no matter where you go.

 

[Skull Pilot]

- As to the race thing, saying gun deaths are a social problem doesn't change anything. If you have social problems having stricter gun laws is not a bad idea in fact it makes it an even better idea.
-Ah the whole i need a gun argument. I have a couple of things to say to that. First of all, I'm personally of the opinion that my TV isn't worth a life. Let's face it someone robbing your house in general just wants your possesions it's very uncommon to get assaulted by a burglar. In most of those cases chances are you are gonna be suprised and unless you sleep with your gun under your pillow ( which would raise questions to your sanity) having a gun won't do shit. What is more common is that you or a member of your family is gonna be involved in an accidental shooting.

Well then I guess my sanity must be in question. I have a loaded .357 in the headboard compartment of my bed ready and willing for any uninvited guests that may wish to drop by.

The reason you are probably safe in your home is because you may have one too. It's just the criminal doesn't know it. A criminals dream is a totally disarmed society. That's because criminals will never give up their guns like this fantasy people have in their heads when they talk about more gun restrictions. That would leave us with an armed criminal element and a disarmed society.

Your TV set may not be worth a life, but mine is, and that should be my choice. I don't care if somebody breaks into my home and steals an ashtray or my computer. Once you break into my house, you better give your heart to Jesus because your ass is mine.

In my state, the same rules apply to your vehicle as your home. If somebody tries to break into my car for whatever reason, I have the legal right to gun him down right there. I don't care if he's breaking in to steal my wallet or the entire car. Once that window is shattered while I'm occupying the vehicle, his momma is going to be crying that night.

Their is a reason that in modern society victims of a crime don't sit in a judgement of the perpetrators. You just gave it. You feel you have a right to kill somebody who takes something of you. Hell even the bible sais an eye for an eye, not a life for an eye lol. And in Islam theft is punished by taking a hand. So your sense of justice goes beyond biblical. Good luck with having a loaded gun in the headboard of your bed. As I said before the chance of you using it against burglars, statisticly pails in comparison that you, or a member of your family will use it on oneanother. And since you keep it both, nice and accessible and loaded, I do question your sanity.

It is prudent to think that anyone breaking into your home in the dead of night is capable and prepared to do you harm.
Tell me if you hear someone in your house at 3 AM are you going to assume they just want to raid your fridge?

 

[forkup]

Their is a reason that in modern society victims of a crime don't sit in a judgement of the perpetrators. You just gave it. You feel you have a right to kill somebody who takes something of you. Hell even the bible sais an eye for an eye, not a life for an eye lol. And in Islam theft is punished by taking a hand. So your sense of justice goes beyond biblical. Good luck with having a loaded gun in the headboard of your bed. As I said before the chance of you using it against burglars, statisticly pails in comparison that you, or a member of your family will use it on oneanother. And since you keep it both, nice and accessible and loaded, I do question your sanity.

Right, I'm sure you question anybody's sanity that does't agree with you. I know your kind.

If somebody breaks into my home (or car) I have no idea what they want. All I know is they invaded my space and yes, that is enough for me to kill them. They may not be there to steal anything. They may be there because of mental problems and had a dispute with me ten years ago about something. They may be intoxicated and think they were breaking into their girlfriends house by accident. They may be there because they are an enemy with one of my tenants, but they picked the wrong apartment. It doesn't matter. Paint is not all that expensive.

I had some people from the middle-east open up a store near my home many years ago. I used to go there all the time. One night I went there and two police cars were in the parking lot. After they left, I asked the young clerk what happened.

He said some drunk came in, stole some cigarettes off the counter and left. The police told him if the guy ever returns, to give them a call and they will kick him out of the store; that's all they will do.

He said his grandmother wrote him and asked about his new environment in the US. So he sent her our local paper. She wrote back with great concern. In her letter, she stated we had more theft in our little suburb in one week than the entire middle-east has in a years time. I asked him if that were true, and he concurred.

He said where he's from they had outdoor markets. They had tables and chairs for shoppers to rest. He said if a woman lay her purse on a table and left, it would probably be there the next day. That's because over there, if you steal anything, off comes your hand. If you steal a second time, off comes your other hand. There really is no third time.

He said that's why in the US, people steal everything including police cars. In the middle-east if you are a man with only one hand, you are shunned by everybody no matter where you go.

You know nothing about me. I have had many good conversations with people who don't agree with me. I'm by default a very opiniated person. Guess what, since we are on a forum like this, so are you. I don't know if you have kids. I assume you do since you referred to 'my family' before. If you have a son and that son is at all like me at, call it my formative years. He will think that gun you own,nice and loaded is the coolest. And it's also not out of the realm of possibility that he'll want to show it to his friends. You can fill in the blanks after that. Of course I don't know if you even have a son but the scenario I just described is way more likely statisticly speaking then you ever to be in a position where that gun will be of use to you. So mad is probably, and I do appoligise putting it to strongly, but smart I can not call it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You know nothing about me. I have had many good conversations with people who don't agree with me. I'm by default a very opiniated person. Guess what, since we are on a forum like this, so are you. I don't know if you have kids. I assume you do since you referred to 'my family' before. If you have a son and that son is at all like me at, call it my formative years. He will think that gun you own,nice and loaded is the coolest. And it's also not out of the realm of possibility that he'll want to show it to his friends. You can fill in the blanks after that. Of course I don't know if you even have a son but the scenario I just described is way more likely statisticly speaking then you ever to be in a position where that gun will be of use to you. So mad is probably, and I do appoligise putting it to strongly, but smart I can not call it.

No, I don't have any children, but when my girlfriend lived with me years ago, I did keep my guns locked up.

As far as accidental shootings go, there were 285 accidental child shootings and/or deaths in all of 2015. While that may sound like a lot, it's estimated that over a third of our population owns firearms. Round that off, and a hundred million Americans own guns.

That's not a very large number of child deaths compared to the amount of guns adults own. And even if you wanted to cut that number of child deaths in half, it would mean disarming over 50 million Americans. That's not plausible or even possible.

But child deaths with guns is no different than child deaths in drowning, poisoning, or even other accidents. It's not the object that caused the deaths, it's irresponsible parents, and that's another thing you can never stop.

 

[washamericom]

- As to the race thing, saying gun deaths are a social problem doesn't change anything. If you have social problems having stricter gun laws is not a bad idea in fact it makes it an even better idea.
-Ah the whole i need a gun argument. I have a couple of things to say to that. First of all, I'm personally of the opinion that my TV isn't worth a life. Let's face it someone robbing your house in general just wants your possesions it's very uncommon to get assaulted by a burglar. In most of those cases chances are you are gonna be suprised and unless you sleep with your gun under your pillow ( which would raise questions to your sanity) having a gun won't do shit. What is more common is that you or a member of your family is gonna be involved in an accidental shooting.

Well then I guess my sanity must be in question. I have a loaded .357 in the headboard compartment of my bed ready and willing for any uninvited guests that may wish to drop by.

The reason you are probably safe in your home is because you may have one too. It's just the criminal doesn't know it. A criminals dream is a totally disarmed society. That's because criminals will never give up their guns like this fantasy people have in their heads when they talk about more gun restrictions. That would leave us with an armed criminal element and a disarmed society.

Your TV set may not be worth a life, but mine is, and that should be my choice. I don't care if somebody breaks into my home and steals an ashtray or my computer. Once you break into my house, you better give your heart to Jesus because your ass is mine.

In my state, the same rules apply to your vehicle as your home. If somebody tries to break into my car for whatever reason, I have the legal right to gun him down right there. I don't care if he's breaking in to steal my wallet or the entire car. Once that window is shattered while I'm occupying the vehicle, his momma is going to be crying that night.

from my cold dead stairway to heaven hand, we can tell rolling stone magazine, that Vermont with no gun laws and the lowest crime says hello. Great thread Amigo.

 

[forkup]

You know nothing about me. I have had many good conversations with people who don't agree with me. I'm by default a very opiniated person. Guess what, since we are on a forum like this, so are you. I don't know if you have kids. I assume you do since you referred to 'my family' before. If you have a son and that son is at all like me at, call it my formative years. He will think that gun you own,nice and loaded is the coolest. And it's also not out of the realm of possibility that he'll want to show it to his friends. You can fill in the blanks after that. Of course I don't know if you even have a son but the scenario I just described is way more likely statisticly speaking then you ever to be in a position where that gun will be of use to you. So mad is probably, and I do appoligise putting it to strongly, but smart I can not call it.

No, I don't have any children, but when my girlfriend lived with me years ago, I did keep my guns locked up.

As far as accidental shootings go, there were 285 accidental child shootings and/or deaths in all of 2015. While that may sound like a lot, it's estimated that over a third of our population owns firearms. Round that off, and a hundred million Americans own guns.

That's not a very large number of child deaths compared to the amount of guns adults own. And even if you wanted to cut that number of child deaths in half, it would mean disarming over 50 million Americans. That's not plausible or even possible.

But child deaths with guns is no different than child deaths in drowning, poisoning, or even other accidents. It's not the object that caused the deaths, it's irresponsible parents, and that's another thing you can never stop.

No you can not prevent people from making bad choices. Not parents, not criminals, not anybody. I am of the opinion though that not being able to prevent it completly, is no excuse to do nothing at all. And as a goverment you are constantly supposed to do your best for the largest amount of people. The U.S has had mass shootings several very deadly ones, almost daily this year. While I'll readily admit that a gun ban wouldn't have stopped all of them. It's save to assume that several would have been prevented and surely would have been less deadly. It would mean that your rights would have been infringed. But the infringment would entail you give up a right, that is dubious in both it's use and usefullness.

 

[forkup]

You know nothing about me. I have had many good conversations with people who don't agree with me. I'm by default a very opiniated person. Guess what, since we are on a forum like this, so are you. I don't know if you have kids. I assume you do since you referred to 'my family' before. If you have a son and that son is at all like me at, call it my formative years. He will think that gun you own,nice and loaded is the coolest. And it's also not out of the realm of possibility that he'll want to show it to his friends. You can fill in the blanks after that. Of course I don't know if you even have a son but the scenario I just described is way more likely statisticly speaking then you ever to be in a position where that gun will be of use to you. So mad is probably, and I do appoligise putting it to strongly, but smart I can not call it.

No, I don't have any children, but when my girlfriend lived with me years ago, I did keep my guns locked up.

As far as accidental shootings go, there were 285 accidental child shootings and/or deaths in all of 2015. While that may sound like a lot, it's estimated that over a third of our population owns firearms. Round that off, and a hundred million Americans own guns.

That's not a very large number of child deaths compared to the amount of guns adults own. And even if you wanted to cut that number of child deaths in half, it would mean disarming over 50 million Americans. That's not plausible or even possible.

But child deaths with guns is no different than child deaths in drowning, poisoning, or even other accidents. It's not the object that caused the deaths, it's irresponsible parents, and that's another thing you can never stop.

No you can not prevent people from making bad choices. Not parents, not criminals, not anybody. I am of the opinion though that not being able to prevent it completly, is no excuse to do nothing at all. And as a goverment you are constantly supposed to do your best for the largest amount of people. The U.S has had mass shootings several very deadly ones, almost daily this year. While I'll readily admit that a gun ban wouldn't have stopped all of them. It's save to assume that several would have been prevented and surely would have been less deadly. It would mean that your rights would have been infringed. But the infringment would entail you give up a right, that is dubious in both it's use and usefullness.

I'm gonna do something here you'll probably find weird. I just did a search about the amount of people that actually used a gun to prevent burglary. Now I just said that the government should try to help the most amount of people. I found that statistically it is more likely to stop a crime by owning a gun then it is to be used in a crime. So in light of this I find my objection to handguns in the house untennable. I still have strong objections to asault rifles because they are excessive but I'm someone who tries to be honest even when honest means I have to admit I'm wrong. I'll provide a link with the article.Private Guns Stop Crime 2.5M Times A Year In US

 

[washamericom]

You know nothing about me. I have had many good conversations with people who don't agree with me. I'm by default a very opiniated person. Guess what, since we are on a forum like this, so are you. I don't know if you have kids. I assume you do since you referred to 'my family' before. If you have a son and that son is at all like me at, call it my formative years. He will think that gun you own,nice and loaded is the coolest. And it's also not out of the realm of possibility that he'll want to show it to his friends. You can fill in the blanks after that. Of course I don't know if you even have a son but the scenario I just described is way more likely statisticly speaking then you ever to be in a position where that gun will be of use to you. So mad is probably, and I do appoligise putting it to strongly, but smart I can not call it.

No, I don't have any children, but when my girlfriend lived with me years ago, I did keep my guns locked up.

As far as accidental shootings go, there were 285 accidental child shootings and/or deaths in all of 2015. While that may sound like a lot, it's estimated that over a third of our population owns firearms. Round that off, and a hundred million Americans own guns.

That's not a very large number of child deaths compared to the amount of guns adults own. And even if you wanted to cut that number of child deaths in half, it would mean disarming over 50 million Americans. That's not plausible or even possible.

But child deaths with guns is no different than child deaths in drowning, poisoning, or even other accidents. It's not the object that caused the deaths, it's irresponsible parents, and that's another thing you can never stop.

No you can not prevent people from making bad choices. Not parents, not criminals, not anybody. I am of the opinion though that not being able to prevent it completly, is no excuse to do nothing at all. And as a goverment you are constantly supposed to do your best for the largest amount of people. The U.S has had mass shootings several very deadly ones, almost daily this year. While I'll readily admit that a gun ban wouldn't have stopped all of them. It's save to assume that several would have been prevented and surely would have been less deadly. It would mean that your rights would have been infringed. But the infringment would entail you give up a right, that is dubious in both it's use and usefullness.

I'm gonna do something here you'll probably find weird. I just did a search about the amount of people that actually used a gun to prevent burglary. Now I just said that the government should try to help the most amount of people. I found that statistically it is more likely to stop a crime by owning a gun then it is to be used in a crime. So in light of this I find my objection to handguns in the house untennable. I still have strong objections to asault rifles because they are excessive but I'm someone who tries to be honest even when honest means I have to admit I'm wrong. I'll provide a link with the article.Private Guns Stop Crime 2.5M Times A Year In US

awesome posting, and your display of integrity is immpresive and refreshing.

one thing i've always had in the back of my mind about the assault rifles is this. and it's a concept libs will never understand. when and if the shit hits the fan and a dirty bomb goes off somewhere, once the grocery stores are emptied, currency has no value and an obama declares martial law, nice ordinary people are going to assimilate/aggregate to mob mentality and gang behavior, survival of the fittest. as those mobs start working there way north to my farm in Vermont guess what they will be collecting along the way ?

in this scenario it's not uncommon for someone like me to want the best available defense, and for that scenario even fifty cal snipers up in the hills are a possibility. or if the government runs amok, as suggested by the founding fathers and mothers. assault weapons are what they are. taking all the guns off the planet today wouldn't stop isis from what they are doing, that's a sad fact of life. they would simply become more creative. no guns were used for 911. paris and amsterdam had serious "gun control". how often it happens is of little concern to the family where it happens once. we are always going to be a gun society, let's move on.

this is a religious war, since the first 9/11 we have a religious war right here, right now. guns aren't the problem, radical islam is. and this accounts for the distinction between a mass shooting at a nightclub, and seventy five shootings over a holiday weekend in chicago, which oddly enough the libs don't seem to really care about. they could bring in the Nat Guard, but that might make fifty years of democrats look bad. i say after fifty years, maybe it's time to try something new. i heard someone say that about cuba, don't remember who.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No you can not prevent people from making bad choices. Not parents, not criminals, not anybody. I am of the opinion though that not being able to prevent it completly, is no excuse to do nothing at all. And as a goverment you are constantly supposed to do your best for the largest amount of people. The U.S has had mass shootings several very deadly ones, almost daily this year. While I'll readily admit that a gun ban wouldn't have stopped all of them. It's save to assume that several would have been prevented and surely would have been less deadly. It would mean that your rights would have been infringed. But the infringment would entail you give up a right, that is dubious in both it's use and usefullness.

You are just speculating at best. Nobody has a crystal ball. You can't say that any gun ban would have stopped any mass shooting no more than I can say an armed citizenry could have. I will say however that it's more than coincidence that most all of these mass shootings take place in gun-free zones.

When I was a kid in high school I never seen heroin in my life. I used pot, a few other drugs on rare occasion, but never seen heroin.

Today we have an epidemic of heroin OD's. In fact my cousin just lost her son last year from it. He was 28 and fighting it since a teenager. Today it's almost the drug of choice. How can anybody explain that since heroin (like many other drugs) have been outlawed my entire life? If anything, laws are more restrictive than when I was a kid. Yet we have so many more deaths, so many more in prison, so many more addicted?

The numbers don’t lie: banning guns means more crime

Ban on assault weapons didn’t reduce violence

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm gonna do something here you'll probably find weird. I just did a search about the amount of people that actually used a gun to prevent burglary. Now I just said that the government should try to help the most amount of people. I found that statistically it is more likely to stop a crime by owning a gun then it is to be used in a crime. So in light of this I find my objection to handguns in the house untennable. I still have strong objections to asault rifles because they are excessive but I'm someone who tries to be honest even when honest means I have to admit I'm wrong. I'll provide a link with the article.Private Guns Stop Crime 2.5M Times A Year In US

Your honesty is appreciated.

 

[forkup]

I'm gonna do something here you'll probably find weird. I just did a search about the amount of people that actually used a gun to prevent burglary. Now I just said that the government should try to help the most amount of people. I found that statistically it is more likely to stop a crime by owning a gun then it is to be used in a crime. So in light of this I find my objection to handguns in the house untennable. I still have strong objections to asault rifles because they are excessive but I'm someone who tries to be honest even when honest means I have to admit I'm wrong. I'll provide a link with the article.Private Guns Stop Crime 2.5M Times A Year In US

Your honesty is appreciated.

We wil never see eye to eye on assault rifles and I will never think it morally right that death is a suitable punishment for theft, but like I pointed out, apperently much to my surprise and considerable discomfort, you having a gun means you are more likely to help then to do harm, so the only thing for me to do is to ask to use good judgement if you ever get in a situation where you will use your gun. See you later Ray, we might run into oneanther again discussing something else.

 

[HenryBHough]

If you can't be trained to be submissive to criminals how in Hell can Obama hope to train you to be submissive to His diktats?