Roman Catholicism is an unscriptural cult

[Anguille]

I am in no way saying the Catholic Church doesn't have some strange things going on, not in the least....

and i haven't been to Mass regularly in nearing 20 years now, all I am saying is that they are not a cult of the Christian Faith...no moreso than any Christian Denomination out there....yes, they and the Lutherans believe that Baptism is a necessity in being saved as TheBass's link showed....that is a matter of interpretation of what Grace and Faith is to our salvation and what the Bible says about Baptism....nothing to fight over imho, with the differently believing other Christian Denominations...

And it is very well KNOWN and not hidden in the least of changing holiday dates to somewhat coincide with what many Pagans had...these Pagans/Gentiles were converted to Christianity and they needed them to stop being creatures of habbit and celebrating their Pagan holidays of past so they put Christian Holidays near those days to help the conversion of the masses to Christianity kick their Pagan Holiday habbits....

Was this the right way to go about it, probably NOT, however it is understandable....and it still has nothing to do with ones Faith that accepts Christ as our Salvation, and as the Son of God....imho...but what do I know?

Care

As little as I know about Catholicism, even I know that Catholics are not pagans. I mean, didn't the Catholic Church burn pagans at the stake in the Middle Ages?

 

[Anguille]

...

We always had a Xmas tree growing up. That doesn't make me a pagan any more than it makes a Catholic a pagan. I think the Catholic church was very smart to allow native cultures to influence local religious traditions. Also, paganism and Christianity probably shared some common values, such as caring for your fellow man. All religions are basically the same, just different in their outward appearances. So it was probably more of a merger or an evolution of paganism into Catholicism. Some of it forced, of course, but some of it also done freely.

 

[glockmail]

That's quite stretch. I am a life long atheist but I have no great devotion to the idea that no god exists nor am I devoted to any atheist movement. Atheism is not a literary or intellectual fad. Nor are atheists a small group of people.

It may not be a devotion to you, but based on the veracity and consistency that some attack religion obviously some do. Also many if not a large majority of the attacks claim some intellectual inferiority of the followers of religion. "Small" is a relative term, and since most people are followers of some religion atheism certainly meets that definition.

 

[Anguille]

It may not be a devotion to you, but based on the veracity and consistency that some attack religion obviously some do. Also many if not a large majority of the attacks claim some intellectual inferiority of the followers of religion. "Small" is a relative term, and since most people are followers of some religion atheism certainly meets that definition.

I disagree that most people are followers of some religion. I'd say most people are agnostics at heart and may be affiliated with some religion or other in a cultural sense rather that in a truly religious sense.

As for atheists attacking theists, some are quite vocal but most just want to be left alone and not forced to join in on religious activities. I don't know of any auto da fé ever being performed by an atheist.

 

[Anguille]

It may not be a devotion to you, but based on the veracity and consistency that some attack religion obviously some do. Also many if not a large majority of the attacks claim some intellectual inferiority of the followers of religion. "Small" is a relative term, and since most people are followers of some religion atheism certainly meets that definition.

I've also observed that many religious people are highly insecure in their own beliefs and cannot tolerate anyone expressing a different religious viewpoint than their own. It has happened to me more than once that when asked what religion I am and when responding, "None.", I get some red faced bigot up in my face telling me i'm going to go to hell and all that sort of crap. The presence of religious folk around me has never made me doubtful of the veracity of my beliefs, yet I am aware that my presence has that effect on some religious people. It has always struck me as odd.

 

[glockmail]

I disagree that most people are followers of some religion. I'd say most people are agnostics at heart and may be affiliated with some religion or other in a cultural sense rather that in a truly religious sense.

As for atheists attacking theists, some are quite vocal but most just want to be left alone and not forced to join in on religious activities. I don't know of any auto da fé ever being performed by an atheist.

Actually we are talking about atheism not all non-followers, and according to US Census data, 902 out of 207,980, or 0.43%, describe themselves as atheist. Those claiming agnostic are 0.48%. http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/04statab/pop.pdf

 

[glockmail]

I've also observed that many religious people are highly insecure in their own beliefs and cannot tolerate anyone expressing a different religious viewpoint than their own. It has happened to me more than once that when asked what religion I am and when responding, "None.", I get some red faced bigot up in my face telling me i'm going to go to hell and all that sort of crap. The presence of religious folk around me has never made me doubtful of the veracity of my beliefs, yet I am aware that my presence has that effect on some religious people. It has always struck me as odd.

I would argue that your view of religious people is colored by your view of religion.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Atheism meets definition 5.
Society is better off without people who have no fear of Judgment Day.

so it's best that people fear a fictional event?

 

[Anguille]

Actually we are talking about atheism not all non-followers, and according to US Census data, 902 out of 207,980, or 0.43%, describe themselves as atheist. Those claiming agnostic are 0.48%. http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/04statab/pop.pdf

Please define what you mean by non follower.

 

[glockmail]

so it's best that people fear a fictional event?

Fictional according to you.

 

[glockmail]

Please define what you mean by non follower.

Someone who isn't a follower of a religion.

 

[Anguille]

I would argue that your view of religious people is colored by your view of religion.

I don't know, being told that you will rot in hell is pretty black and white to me. I consider that aggressive behavior. I never tell people my religious beliefs unless asked or if they want an explanation of why I am not doing something they doand then I simply say I have none. That has been interpreted as a direct attack on other people's religious beliefs by certain people.

Last month an old Italian lady who lives on my street was telling me about an injury to her leg that was slow to heal. I said I hoped it would get better soon and that she wasn't in pain. She said hope was not enough, I should pray to God for her. I tried to changed the subject and asked about the medication the doctor gave her. She said medication wasn't enough that I had to pray to God for her so I told her I could not do that as I don't believe in god.
Holy crap!! She went ballistic, shouting at me to pray to god and that I was a bad girl, a disgraziata.
I got the hell out of there! The sad thing is that this woman is in her 80's, lives alone and barely speaks English or Italian. It so happens that I am able to understand her dialect because it is similar to another Italian dialect I am familiar with. She has no one in the neighbor hood but me and my boyfriend with whom she can speak her native tongue. And now she doesn't want to speak to me anymore, all because I don't believe in her God. That's what religious intolerance does to people.

 

[Ravi]

I don't know, being told that you will rot in hell is pretty black and white to me. I consider that aggressive behavior. I never tell people my religious beliefs unless asked or if they want an explanation of why I am not doing something they doand then I simply say I have none. That has been interpreted as a direct attack on other people's religious beliefs by certain people.

Last month an old Italian lady who lives on my street was telling me about an injury to her leg that was slow to heal. I said I hoped it would get better soon and that she wasn't in pain. She said hope was not enough, I should pray to God for her. I tried to changed the subject and asked about the medication the doctor gave her. She said medication wasn't enough that I had to pray to God for her so I told her I could not do that as I don't believe in god.
Holy crap!! She went ballistic, shouting at me to pray to god and that I was a bad girl, a disgraziata.
I got the hell out of there! The sad thing is that this woman is in her 80's, lives alone and barely speaks English or Italian. It so happens that I am able to understand her dialect because it is similar to another Italian dialect I am familiar with. She has no one in the neighbor hood but me and my boyfriend with whom she can speak her native tongue. And now she doesn't want to speak to me anymore, all because I don't believe in her God. That's what religious intolerance does to people.

At least she'll go to heaven with a clean conscious from avoiding atheist heathens!

 

[Anguille]

Someone who isn't a follower of a religion.

Followers of religion can be divided in to those who perform the rituals of a religion and put on an outward appearance of belief and those who actually believe. Then there are, of course, those who are undecided.

 

[Anguille]

At least she'll go to heaven with a clean conscious from avoiding atheist heathens!

Thank Jesus for that!

I bet she softens up when she gets lonely, though she is a tough old bird.

 

[AllieBaba]

I've also observed that many religious people are highly insecure in their own beliefs and cannot tolerate anyone expressing a different religious viewpoint than their own. It has happened to me more than once that when asked what religion I am and when responding, "None.", I get some red faced bigot up in my face telling me i'm going to go to hell and all that sort of crap. The presence of religious folk around me has never made me doubtful of the veracity of my beliefs, yet I am aware that my presence has that effect on some religious people. It has always struck me as odd.

You know, I've heard this story so many times, but I just don't believe it. I've been a Christian all my life, and a Baptist for all my adult life...and I have yet to see anything like that. How old were you when this happened? Was it in school? I could see it of school kids.

We're told to set a good and kindly example....I just don't know who all these red faced bigots are.

Though I've certainly had a few bigots get in my face and say some highly inflammatory things about my faith..

My experience with atheists and agnostics is that they will ask for a statement of faith, then try to pick it apart, and then make fun of the person who states they have faith...then claim that by having faith, that person is a bigot. Just because I believe in God does not mean I hate you, ok? Just because I think you are going to hell does not mean it's my choice that you go to hell, or that I want you to go to hell, or even that it has anything to do with me. It's my belief. It's not personal. Get over it. If you don't like it, quit discussing theology with those who have faith in God.

 

[Anguille]

Just because I think you are going to hell does not mean it's my choice that you go to hell, or that I want you to go to hell, or even that it has anything to do with me. It's my belief. It's not personal. Get over it. If you don't like it, quit discussing theology with those who have faith in God.

Thanks for proving my point. I think this is the second or third time you've given me your unsolicited opinion that I am going to hell.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Fictional according to you.

without evidence, without some basis in fact, fabricated.

since there is no proof of a god, there is no proof that he will judge anyone.

fictional by definition

Main Entry: fic·tion
Pronunciation: \ˈfik-shən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ficcioun, from Middle French fiction, from Latin fiction-, fictio act of fashioning, fiction, from fingere to shape, fashion, feign — more at dough
Date: 14th century
1 a: something invented by the imagination or feigned; specifically : an invented story b: fictitious literature (as novels or short stories) c: a work of fiction; especially : novel
2 a: an assumption of a possibility as a fact irrespective of the question of its truth <a legal fiction> b: a useful illusion or pretense
3: the action of feigning or of creating with the imagination


I especially like #2

 

[glockmail]

without evidence, without some basis in fact, fabricated.

since there is no proof of a god, there is no proof that he will judge anyone.

fictional by definition

Main Entry: fic·tion
Pronunciation: \&#712;fik-sh&#601;n\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ficcioun, from Middle French fiction, from Latin fiction-, fictio act of fashioning, fiction, from fingere to shape, fashion, feign — more at dough
Date: 14th century
1 a: something invented by the imagination or feigned; specifically : an invented story b: fictitious literature (as novels or short stories) c: a work of fiction; especially : novel
2 a: an assumption of a possibility as a fact irrespective of the question of its truth <a legal fiction> b: a useful illusion or pretense
3: the action of feigning or of creating with the imagination


I especially like #2

"Created by the imagination" according to you.
There is plenty of evidence of God, just none that you choose to accept.

 

[glockmail]

You know, I've heard this story so many times, but I just don't believe it. I've been a Christian all my life, and a Baptist for all my adult life...and I have yet to see anything like that. How old were you when this happened? Was it in school? I could see it of school kids.

We're told to set a good and kindly example....I just don't know who all these red faced bigots are.

Though I've certainly had a few bigots get in my face and say some highly inflammatory things about my faith..

My experience with atheists and agnostics is that they will ask for a statement of faith, then try to pick it apart, and then make fun of the person who states they have faith...then claim that by having faith, that person is a bigot. Just because I believe in God does not mean I hate you, ok? Just because I think you are going to hell does not mean it's my choice that you go to hell, or that I want you to go to hell, or even that it has anything to do with me. It's my belief. It's not personal. Get over it. If you don't like it, quit discussing theology with those who have faith in God.

I believe it, as I've witnessed acts of intolerance by religious persons, fellow Catholics actually, first hand. But I agree with you that atheists/ agnostics are also intolerant, many more so and more vehement, as evidenced by many examples in this forum. Here's a recent example: http://www.usmessageboard.com/763697-post172.html