Roosevelt: Stupidity or Mendacity?

[PoliticalChic]

Without FDR we'd probably be speaking German.

I'll go with your logic.....


So.....without Reagan, speaking Russian?


Smert Komitet Gossudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti

 

[Camp]

I'd like to know. I'm guessing it wasn't NC style.

He seems to have enjoyed eating in Virginia, so perhaps he would have preferred Virginia style BBQ sauce.

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=3SdvYOHKyU4]FDR Visits Foresters, Shenandoah National Park 1933/8/14 - YouTube[/ame]

Virginia has a style of BBQ sauce? I will have to check that out.

Look for recipes with butter and lots of cayenne. Lots of variety and different styles in VA for BBQ sauces. The hot ones with lots of cayenne, butter and no vinegar stood out for me.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The answer to the question in the thread title is: Both (and worse).

Ya, a President that was elected four times and guided us through a global depression and the largest and deadliest war in world history and in the end left us as the richest and most powerful nation on the planet, was stupid according to you. Like your a credible source the world should pay attention to.

Wanna 'nutha' chance?

This was the opening of the OP....still not responded to.....

Today it will be proven....proven....that FDR knew the correct way the recession should be dealt with....yet he chose to do the opposite, causing and extending a Depression.
Proven.
Why he did so remains to be answered.



Go on.....don't be shy.

 

[Ravi]

Without FDR we'd probably be speaking German.

I'll go with your logic.....


So.....without Reagan, speaking Russian?


Smert Komitet Gossudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti

No, the Soviet Union was doomed from the start. Reagan just lucked out when they gave up the ghost and pretended it was his doing.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The answer to the question in the thread title is: Both (and worse).

Have to disagree with you, Unk....

This guy was far from stupid.

Mendacious? Yup.

Anti-American, anti-Constitution? No doubt.

Suffused with megalomania? Absolutely.

Leftist, with a collectivist (to be kind) mentality? Can't be argued.



But not stupid.

 

[flacaltenn]

Today it will be proven....proven....that FDR knew the correct way the recession should be dealt with....yet he chose to do the opposite, causing and extending a Depression.
Proven.
Why he did so remains to be answered.




1. The hagiography and idol-worship leaves out all understanding of his times...and what he actually said and did. So...here I am to save the day!

2. The basis of FDR's 1932 campaign to win the presidency from Herbert Hoover was his emphatic promise to the suffering American people, that he would balance the budget. Of course, he also promised that he would use the government to create jobs, and that they "had a right to a comfortable living."
FDR?s Commonwealth Club Address




3.The part about balancing the budget had a certain resonance as President Harding had veered sharply away from federal spending and solved as major a recession in about one year.

Certainly Franklin Roosevelt knew this, as he hammered away at Hoover's spending. October 19, 1932, he nailed Hoover, observing that in recent years federal expenses had increased by $1 billion "and that I may add, is the most reckless and extravagant past that I have been able to discover in the statistical record of any peacetime Government anywhere, any time."
Franklin D. Roosevelt: Campaign Address on the Federal Budget at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Get that? He knew the economic history.





a. Roosevelt went further! The cause: "It arises from one cause only and that is the unbalanced budget at he continued failure of this administration to take effective steps to balance it! If that budget had been fully and honestly balanced in 1930, some of the 1931 troubles would have been avoided. Even if it had been balanced in 1931, much of the extreme dip in 1932 would have been obviated. Every financial man in the country knows why this is true."
Franklin D. Roosevelt: Campaign Address on the Federal Budget at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

b. And this: "... carrying out the plain precept of our Party, which is to reduce the cost of current Federal Government operations by 25 percent." Ibid.



Can we let that sink in?
Franklin Delano Roosevelt...budget wonk....balance the budget....stop the deficits....do what Republican Harding did!!!
I think I have the vapors!

What a good fiscal conservative this guy would have been!!
Then he was elected....a fatal development.


Know what 'mendacity' means?

Take a moment....look it up.
I'll be back.

I do teacher, I do. It's a bit like what we hear from the Ministry of Truth (you are a member, are you not?). You see, when history is revised to fit a current ideology, that is a mendacious act.

FDR was handed a mess, a bit like President Obama. There was no road map to fix what was broken, and those who broke it in both cases didn't want it fixed by the government because those who did the damage still profited from it.

Let's look at one of FDR's many efforts to fix what the conservatives broke/created/ignored and how it benefited the nation:

Rural Electrification

Wait a minute !!!! Didnt FDR INVENT the Ministry of Truth?? Oh wait --- It was the Government movie review board in Hollywood that approved scripts, edited scripts and generally controlled media content.. You mean THAT KIND of stuff that "conservatives broke".. Does that include Jayne Mansfields' breasts???

 

[Unkotare]

Without FDR we'd probably be speaking German.

No, probably not.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Without FDR we'd probably be speaking German.

I'll go with your logic.....


So.....without Reagan, speaking Russian?


Smert Komitet Gossudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti

No, the Soviet Union was doomed from the start. Reagan just lucked out when they gave up the ghost and pretended it was his doing.

Now, I realize that you have zero geo-political insight......so let me 'learn' you a little....there was no indication that the Soviet Union would lose to Germany.
Take notes.


1. Germany was "mortally wounded" prior to the D-day invasion, exactly as the United States Strategic Bombing Survey reported to Roosevelt, Marshall and Harry Hopkins.

This conclusion is supported by the testimony of General Heinz Guderian, Germany's great commander of armored forces and master of the blitzkrieg technique. In his book,
"Panzer Leader," General Guderian writes:

"The Allied air offensive had brought ever increasing devastation to Germany during the last few months. The armament industry had suffered heavily. The destruction of the synthetic oil plants (in January, 1945) was a particularly severe blow, since our fuel supplies were mainly based on those installations....The destruction of the greater part of our synthetic fuel industry meant that the German command now had to make do with such supplies as came from the wells at Zistersdorf in Austria, and from around Lake Balaton in Hungary."
"Panzer Leader" by Heinz Guderian, Constantine Fitzgibbon, Kenneth Macksey and B. H. Liddell Hart, p.417



2. The decision to fight a land war against Germany was the first of a long series of tragic mistakes in the prosecution of the war. Hanson Baldwin, military critic of the New York Times, declares in his book, "Great Mistakes of the War:"
'There is no doubt whatsoever that it would have been to the interest of Britain, the United States, and the world to have allowed and indeed to have encouraged-the world's two great dictatorships to fight each other to a frazzle.'

Baldwin writes that the United States put itself "in the role-at times a disgraceful role-of fearful suppliant and propitiating ally, anxious at nearly any cost to keep Russia fighting. In retrospect, how stupid!"




3. What was the reasoning behind FDR's 'Russia Uber Alles Policy'? That the USSR was a necessity in the battle against Germany? Who said so?

The United States Strategic Bombing Survey, headed by Franklin D'Olier, former president of the Prudential Life Insurance Company, and staffed by hundreds of technical experts, made an extensive evaluation of the effects of the air war against Germany. It reported: "By the beginning of 1945, before the invasion of the homeland itself, Germany was reaching a state of helplessness. Her armament production was falling irretrievably, orderliness in effort was disappearing, and total disruption and disintegration were well along. Her armies were still in the field. But with the impending collapse of the supporting economy, the indications are convincing that they would have had to cease fighting-any effective fighting-within a few months. Germany was mortally wounded."
Manly, Op.Cit., p.116

a. " The United States Strategic Bombing Survey was a board of experts assembled to produce an impartial assessment of the effects of Anglo-American strategic bombing of Nazi Germany during the European theatre of World War II. After publishing its report, the Survey then turned its attention to the efforts against Imperial Japan during the Pacific War, including a separate section on the recent use of the atomic bombs.

Although most of the Survey's members were military, about one-third of the 1,000-member group were civilian. While the Board was not associated with any branch of the military, it was established by the US Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson and chaired by a civilian, Franklin D'Olier."
Strategic bombing survey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Familiar with the Battle of Kursk?

How about Russia's three greatest generals, December, January, and February?


Napoleon began his invasion 550 miles from Moscow and 420 miles from St. Petersburg. Hitler began his invasion from a similar distance.
Begin to see the similarity?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Without FDR we'd probably be speaking German.

I'll go with your logic.....


So.....without Reagan, speaking Russian?


Smert Komitet Gossudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti

No, the Soviet Union was doomed from the start. Reagan just lucked out when they gave up the ghost and pretended it was his doing.

"Reagan just lucked out when they gave up the ghost and pretended it was his doing."

Sorry.....wrong again.



1. "Many forces contributed to the fall of the "Evil Empire", but foremost among them was the deployment of those 464 cruise and 108 Pershing II missiles slated to offset triple-warhead Soviet SS-20s and Backfire bombers that could reach all of Western Europe ...

2. The name of the game was as old as Thucydides' disquisitions on Peloponnesian power politics. It was a pure test of will and strength, ...


3. The Soviets were playing missile angst to the hilt, predicting that Western Europe would crack under the pressure.
Enter Ronald Reagan, a president who, whatever else he was and did, was an extraordinary exemplar of "Only in America." He was an ingenue even by American standards, but as tough and hard-bitten as any Soviet general-secretary (post-Stalin, that is). He hated communism, ...

4. Yet at their next meeting in Reykjavik in 1986, where Gorbachev would not budge on the "Star Wars" question, Reagan was decisive and unforgiving. He recalls in An American Life how he stood up from the table to proclaim that the meeting was over. Then he turned to his Secretary of State: "Let's go, George. We're leaving." Like any good diplomat, Shultz was crushed by so much roughness, but Reagan was completely unfazed. Later on, he explained: "I went to Reykjavik determined that everything was negotiable except two things, our freedom and our future."
The 'Amazing and Mysterious Life' of Ronald Reagan | The National Interest
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2751/is_77/ai_n6353166/pg_3/?tag=content;col1



I always find that thrilling.....

....don't you?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Today it will be proven....proven....that FDR knew the correct way the recession should be dealt with....yet he chose to do the opposite, causing and extending a Depression.
Proven.
Why he did so remains to be answered.




1. The hagiography and idol-worship leaves out all understanding of his times...and what he actually said and did. So...here I am to save the day!

2. The basis of FDR's 1932 campaign to win the presidency from Herbert Hoover was his emphatic promise to the suffering American people, that he would balance the budget. Of course, he also promised that he would use the government to create jobs, and that they "had a right to a comfortable living."
FDR?s Commonwealth Club Address




3.The part about balancing the budget had a certain resonance as President Harding had veered sharply away from federal spending and solved as major a recession in about one year.

Certainly Franklin Roosevelt knew this, as he hammered away at Hoover's spending. October 19, 1932, he nailed Hoover, observing that in recent years federal expenses had increased by $1 billion "and that I may add, is the most reckless and extravagant past that I have been able to discover in the statistical record of any peacetime Government anywhere, any time."
Franklin D. Roosevelt: Campaign Address on the Federal Budget at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Get that? He knew the economic history.





a. Roosevelt went further! The cause: "It arises from one cause only and that is the unbalanced budget at he continued failure of this administration to take effective steps to balance it! If that budget had been fully and honestly balanced in 1930, some of the 1931 troubles would have been avoided. Even if it had been balanced in 1931, much of the extreme dip in 1932 would have been obviated. Every financial man in the country knows why this is true."
Franklin D. Roosevelt: Campaign Address on the Federal Budget at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

b. And this: "... carrying out the plain precept of our Party, which is to reduce the cost of current Federal Government operations by 25 percent." Ibid.



Can we let that sink in?
Franklin Delano Roosevelt...budget wonk....balance the budget....stop the deficits....do what Republican Harding did!!!
I think I have the vapors!

What a good fiscal conservative this guy would have been!!
Then he was elected....a fatal development.


Know what 'mendacity' means?

Take a moment....look it up.
I'll be back.

I do teacher, I do. It's a bit like what we hear from the Ministry of Truth (you are a member, are you not?). You see, when history is revised to fit a current ideology, that is a mendacious act.

FDR was handed a mess, a bit like President Obama. There was no road map to fix what was broken, and those who broke it in both cases didn't want it fixed by the government because those who did the damage still profited from it.

Let's look at one of FDR's many efforts to fix what the conservatives broke/created/ignored and how it benefited the nation:

Rural Electrification

Wait a minute !!!! Didnt FDR INVENT the Ministry of Truth?? Oh wait --- It was the Government movie review board in Hollywood that approved scripts, edited scripts and generally controlled media content.. You mean THAT KIND of stuff that "conservatives broke".. Does that include Jayne Mansfields' breasts???

It was an earlier Progressive who had the world’s first modern propaganda ministry...

Woodrow Wilson

 

[PoliticalChic]

Let's review:
Remember, FDR swore he would solve the recession with balanced budgets....and he hired Lewis Douglas as budget director to do just that.
Did he let Douglas?

Watch this:




8. Was there any hope for Douglas???
After all....Franklin picked him for the budget position....
Yes!!
In the spring of 1934, Douglas managed to get a White House memorandum "ordering an across-the-board cutback in federal spending."
Folsom, "New Deal or Raw Deal," p.214-215

Wow! FDR is a good guy after all! Whoopee!





Douglas was ecstatic!
He called NYTimes reporter, Turner Catledge, future Managing Editor from 1952-1964, and its first Executive Editor, and gave him the exclusive on this monumental accomplishment!

a. Catledge wrote the story on the upcoming spending cuts, and the next morning gets a call from the White House: come see the President.





Ok...ok.....ready?

And when he gets in to see Roosevelt....

9. "[Roosevelt] pointed to the clipping, patting it with his fingertips, and said he was curious how such fantastic stories got around. He said, most affably, that I needn't have swallowed such a cock-and-bull story, for all I had to do was call him and check the facts, as I was always free to do. This was news to me.....
My story about an agreed-on cutback, he said, was made up out of whole cloth....

I later confirmed that Roosevelt had led Douglas to believe he'd accepted his budget cuts....
"My Life and The Times," by Turner Catledge, p.83-84



Did you look up 'mendacity'?
See Roosevelt's pic next to it?



Didn't I say I was gonna prove it?

 

[westwall]

Today it will be proven....proven....that FDR knew the correct way the recession should be dealt with....yet he chose to do the opposite, causing and extending a Depression.
Proven.
Why he did so remains to be answered.




1. The hagiography and idol-worship leaves out all understanding of his times...and what he actually said and did. So...here I am to save the day!

2. The basis of FDR's 1932 campaign to win the presidency from Herbert Hoover was his emphatic promise to the suffering American people, that he would balance the budget. Of course, he also promised that he would use the government to create jobs, and that they "had a right to a comfortable living."
FDR?s Commonwealth Club Address




3.The part about balancing the budget had a certain resonance as President Harding had veered sharply away from federal spending and solved as major a recession in about one year.

Certainly Franklin Roosevelt knew this, as he hammered away at Hoover's spending. October 19, 1932, he nailed Hoover, observing that in recent years federal expenses had increased by $1 billion "and that I may add, is the most reckless and extravagant past that I have been able to discover in the statistical record of any peacetime Government anywhere, any time."
Franklin D. Roosevelt: Campaign Address on the Federal Budget at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Get that? He knew the economic history.





a. Roosevelt went further! The cause: "It arises from one cause only and that is the unbalanced budget at he continued failure of this administration to take effective steps to balance it! If that budget had been fully and honestly balanced in 1930, some of the 1931 troubles would have been avoided. Even if it had been balanced in 1931, much of the extreme dip in 1932 would have been obviated. Every financial man in the country knows why this is true."
Franklin D. Roosevelt: Campaign Address on the Federal Budget at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

b. And this: "... carrying out the plain precept of our Party, which is to reduce the cost of current Federal Government operations by 25 percent." Ibid.



Can we let that sink in?
Franklin Delano Roosevelt...budget wonk....balance the budget....stop the deficits....do what Republican Harding did!!!
I think I have the vapors!

What a good fiscal conservative this guy would have been!!
Then he was elected....a fatal development.


Know what 'mendacity' means?

Take a moment....look it up.
I'll be back.

I vote both.

 

[Unkotare]

The answer to the question in the thread title is: Both (and worse).

Have to disagree with you, Unk....

This guy was far from stupid.

Mendacious? Yup.

Anti-American, anti-Constitution? No doubt.

Suffused with megalomania? Absolutely.

Leftist, with a collectivist (to be kind) mentality? Can't be argued.



But not stupid.

I stand by my estimation. When he was elected the first time (and even more so the second) he had no idea what the hell he was doing (sound familiar?). He got elected on empty slogans and promises he had no plan to fulfill (sound familiar?). The 'New Deal' was basically him throwing spaghetti at the wall, and many Americans suffered as a result - in his day and up to ours. And why not? Congress was a rubber stamp and he planned to 'pack' the Supreme Court into irrelevance, so he just tried whatever popped into his diseased head. He was a hateful bigot, and in his dotage became Stalin's useful fool.

Stupid, duplicitous, and as morally bankrupt as he ensured we eventually will be financially.

 

[mamooth]

So much of the right will simply never forgive FDR for beating the Nazis.

 

[Camp]

Not enough choices. Stupidity or mendacity? How about if we ask "PoliticalChic, brainwashed extreme neo conservative fascist or paid neo conservative fascist liar." See what happens when you load the question so you can only get a nasty and negative reply. Which one, stupid or mendacious?
Lets add, Genius to the FDR questions. Was he stupid, mendacious or a genius who knew how to pick his battles, knew when to hold and when to fold and was a master manipulator of his opponents.

1."...brainwashed..."
Now, you have never been able to show any of my post that aren't true.....

...in light of that, what dictionary defines truth-telling as brainwashed?



2. "...extreme neo conservative fascist or paid neo conservative fascist liar."

Oooooo....look at the result my truth-telling causes in simpletons who can't deal with facts.

OK, I’ve seen your preparatory spittle-spewing, rage-fueled rant, now for your signature move, soiling your shorts.



That sound?
Me.....laughing at you.

Not everyone is impressed or falls for your cherry picking fantasy style of analysis and the way you reach conclusions by conveniently omitting pertinent data. An interesting method of turning non fiction into fiction.

FDR learned rather quickly after being elected that he would find not a ounce of decency or a glimmer of patriotism from the power elite. He went with the fuck those assholes attitude towards the obscenely wealthy who seemed to be just fine investing with the Nazi's and Communist in Germany and Russia and chose the mass's and working men of America to stand beside and behind. Eventually he slapped them into order, but the fascist and corporitist have never forgiven him and still sting from the positive and profitable marks FDR put on society that seem to be forever lasting. Things like Social Security still drive them nuts because it proves beyond a doubt that there is a place for socialist programs in a capitalist economy and the greedy power elite can be slapped into behaving if the right man is put in charge.
The people loved him when he was President and he is still one of the most favorite Presidents.

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=Aq5UiGdje8U"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=Aq5UiGdje8U[/ame]

 

[PoliticalChic]

So much of the right will simply never forgive FDR for beating the Nazis.

Seems you aren't astute enough to ever respond to anything in a thread.

You drop by, leave your effluvia, and run off.


Well....perhaps next time you'll show some spine.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Not enough choices. Stupidity or mendacity? How about if we ask "PoliticalChic, brainwashed extreme neo conservative fascist or paid neo conservative fascist liar." See what happens when you load the question so you can only get a nasty and negative reply. Which one, stupid or mendacious?
Lets add, Genius to the FDR questions. Was he stupid, mendacious or a genius who knew how to pick his battles, knew when to hold and when to fold and was a master manipulator of his opponents.

1."...brainwashed..."
Now, you have never been able to show any of my post that aren't true.....

...in light of that, what dictionary defines truth-telling as brainwashed?



2. "...extreme neo conservative fascist or paid neo conservative fascist liar."

Oooooo....look at the result my truth-telling causes in simpletons who can't deal with facts.

OK, I’ve seen your preparatory spittle-spewing, rage-fueled rant, now for your signature move, soiling your shorts.



That sound?
Me.....laughing at you.

Not everyone is impressed or falls for your cherry picking fantasy style of analysis and the way you reach conclusions by conveniently omitting pertinent data. An interesting method of turning non fiction into fiction.

FDR learned rather quickly after being elected that he would find not a ounce of decency or a glimmer of patriotism from the power elite. He went with the fuck those assholes attitude towards the obscenely wealthy who seemed to be just fine investing with the Nazi's and Communist in Germany and Russia and chose the mass's and working men of America to stand beside and behind. Eventually he slapped them into order, but the fascist and corporitist have never forgiven him and still sting from the positive and profitable marks FDR put on society that seem to be forever lasting. Things like Social Security still drive them nuts because it proves beyond a doubt that there is a place for socialist programs in a capitalist economy and the greedy power elite can be slapped into behaving if the right man is put in charge.
The people loved him when he was President and he is still one of the most favorite Presidents.

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=3SdvYOHKyU4]FDR Visits Foresters, Shenandoah National Park 1933/8/14 - YouTube[/ame]

Still no attempt to respond to any of the truths revealed in the thread.


Indicates the rectitude of my thesis, doesn't it

 

[PoliticalChic]

10. Need a little more to make up your mind about the great man...the one whose economic policies were the exact reverse of what he promised, and, in fact, extended rather than solved the Depression?




OK...another morsel:

The next day Treasury Sec'y Henry Morgenthau called Catledge to have lunch. Morgenthau brought up the story, and thanked Catledge for telling FDR that he wasn't the source of the story. Catledge said "Mr. Secretary, this is interesting, but its not true. I didn't mention you to Roosevelt, and he didn't mention you to me. He didn't treat the story as a leak- he said it was made up out of whole cloth."
"My Life and The Times," by Turner Catledge, p.84-85

What's that name for people who lie even when they don't have to?





So, we gave one more part of the Roosevelt puzzle.


But not the big one: why didn't he follow through on his promised to slim government, and, instead, embarked on the exact opposite tack?
Clearly he knew that the Harding tack was the proper path.....yet he did the opposite.
Why?



Could it be his close and person agreement with the policies of other nations, ones who authorized omnipotent governments......folks like his economic soul-mates, Mussolini, Hitler, and Stalin, made him want into their club?


Isn't that the "real" Roosevelt?

 

[Unkotare]

So much of the right will simply never forgive FDR for beating the Nazis.

FDR did not "beat the Nazis." Stop being a nuthugger.

 

[Unkotare]

FDR learned rather quickly after being elected that he would find not a ounce of decency or a glimmer of patriotism from the power elite. He went with the fuck those assholes attitude towards the obscenely wealthy

Nonsense, fanboy. He was among their number all his life, and wouldn't have found that "ounce of decency" within himself if he ever bothered to look for it.