Same bullshit, different decade: What members of the gay rights movement could learn from history

[hortysir]

This sums a lot of liberals in this thread up quite nicely.

Bigotry is the only explanation for being opposed to same sex marriage. No one's come up with a reason that doesn't involve simple bigotry.

Yes they have.
You just choose to dismiss one main reason: simple word definition

 

[Lilah]

Should we have laws that only normal people are allowed to get married?

Normal is relative.

We do, however, have laws that only "normal people" can buy guns

James Holmes bought an arsenal of guns. Are you saying he's normal?

Given his mental state, no he shouldn't have been allowed to purchase the guns.
But in order to make that kind of information accessible in background checks we have to worry about HPPA privacy laws.
Not to further derail the thread, but if 2 pistols, a shotgun and a rifle is an "arsenal". I must have a small country's armory in my closet

I was unaware you knew him on a personal basis. My bad.

No
Apparently I just know more about the case than you did when you pulled it out of the air

Doubt it, but you go with that if it makes you feel gangsta.

 

[Seawytch]

This sums a lot of liberals in this thread up quite nicely.

Bigotry is the only explanation for being opposed to same sex marriage. No one's come up with a reason that doesn't involve simple bigotry.

Yes they have.
You just choose to dismiss one main reason: simple word definition

Nope. Religious bigotry is still bigotry. Bob Jones University felt they had a religious reason for their prohibitions on interracial dating. It's still bigotry.

 

[The Rabbi]

not one of you has yet posted the language from the 14th where the words "gay marriage" appear.

we'll be waiting-----------------------------------------

The part that says...."all people"

All people means marriage? You must speak a different dialect of English than the rest ofus, Nutwhacker.

I believe the law says "all persons"

Now, if they were willing to say "all persons except for homosexuals" you might have a point

It doesnt. Homosexuals have exactly the same rights as anyone else. Presently two heterosexual men cannot marry either.

They can in a MAJORITY of states...37 out of 50, actually.

Argument 2.
Next.

 

[The Rabbi]

Replace the word 'gay' or 'homosexual' with 'thief', 'drunkard', 'idol worshiper' or 'adulterer' and the remarks carry the same weight.
Sin is sin is sin is sin....
I don't want a third to continue stealing or a drunkard to keep on drinking, etc....

But we've continually allowed these sins to seep into our day to day lives.
We just rebrand them to make them more palatable.
Drunkards are now alcoholics and, as such, have an illness.
Thieves get the psychobabble title of Cleptomaniacs.
Adultery is filed under sexual addiction.

But, for whatever reason, homosexuality gets a pass in the illness category. We just have to accept it.
Any objectional remarks are immediately reversed on to the person stating them as hateful and bigoted.

And people wonder why some of us think that they are seeking special protection

Because there's nothing wrong with being gay. It's not the same as being a drunkard or an adulterer.

Oh, poor dear...can't say mean things about gays or blacks or Jews anymore. Muslims...you can still be bigots to Muslims with relative immunity.

"Because there's nothing wrong with being gay"
That is the exact method of selling a lie.

Or stating a simple truth. That you feel otherwise doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees with you is 'lying'.

But can you say that, because you don't agree with me, I am not a bigot?

Are people who "disagree" that blacks should be able to marry whites bigots?

Try answering his question insteadf of deflecting.
Oh wait you can't.

 

[The Rabbi]

Or stating a simple truth. That you feel otherwise doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees with you is 'lying'.

But can you say that, because you don't agree with me, I am not a bigot?

We certainly disagree. As I'm not hamstrung with your assumptions, I can assess the intention and the harm caused by any given action and glean its morality accordingly. Stealing and oathbreaking cause harm to other people. Homosexuality doesn't.

If a gay couple gets married......nothing happens to you. You're simply unaffected. If a gay couple stole from you, you lose property. And you're most definitely effected.

So the first act wouldn't be immoral or a 'sin' because it causes no harm nor is intended to. While the second is an intentional act to take from you. And would qualify in my opinion.

Thank you for that concession (I think)
But I disagree that one of these things cause no harm in that it is contrary to why I believe we were created as male and female (to go forth and multiply)
Now, mind you, I only speak of the sinfulness of homosexual behavior NOT "gay marriage".
Gays SHOULD have just as much "right" to lose half of their shit in divorce as I do.
I simply object to being called a hateful bigoted homophobe because I don't buy into the hard sell that gay is normal

You can believe that all you want...just like you can believe that left-handed people aren't normal, that Jews aren't normal, that short people aren't normal. Just don't try to legislate against us.

And don't be surprised when you get called a bigot for saying things like "there's something wrong with gays".

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

 

[Seawytch]

Because there's nothing wrong with being gay. It's not the same as being a drunkard or an adulterer.

Oh, poor dear...can't say mean things about gays or blacks or Jews anymore. Muslims...you can still be bigots to Muslims with relative immunity.

"Because there's nothing wrong with being gay"
That is the exact method of selling a lie.

Or stating a simple truth. That you feel otherwise doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees with you is 'lying'.

But can you say that, because you don't agree with me, I am not a bigot?

Are people who "disagree" that blacks should be able to marry whites bigots?

Try answering his question insteadf of deflecting.
Oh wait you can't.

I can. They're bigots.

 

[NYcarbineer]

This sums a lot of liberals in this thread up quite nicely.

Bigotry is the only explanation for being opposed to same sex marriage. No one's come up with a reason that doesn't involve simple bigotry.

Yes they have.
You just choose to dismiss one main reason: simple word definition

Nope. Religious bigotry is still bigotry. Bob Jones University felt they had a religious reason for their prohibitions on interracial dating. It's still bigotry.

This sums a lot of liberals in this thread up quite nicely.

Bigotry is the only explanation for being opposed to same sex marriage. No one's come up with a reason that doesn't involve simple bigotry.

Yes they have.
You just choose to dismiss one main reason: simple word definition

That 'definition' thing is pure nonsense. Blacks were once 'defined' in America as being property. They were also defined as 3/5ths of a person.

Do you think the fight for civil rights and equality for blacks should have been halted in its tracks, never to progress further,

by some bigot holding up a sign with the simple word 'definition' on it?

 

[NYcarbineer]

But can you say that, because you don't agree with me, I am not a bigot?

We certainly disagree. As I'm not hamstrung with your assumptions, I can assess the intention and the harm caused by any given action and glean its morality accordingly. Stealing and oathbreaking cause harm to other people. Homosexuality doesn't.

If a gay couple gets married......nothing happens to you. You're simply unaffected. If a gay couple stole from you, you lose property. And you're most definitely effected.

So the first act wouldn't be immoral or a 'sin' because it causes no harm nor is intended to. While the second is an intentional act to take from you. And would qualify in my opinion.

Thank you for that concession (I think)
But I disagree that one of these things cause no harm in that it is contrary to why I believe we were created as male and female (to go forth and multiply)
Now, mind you, I only speak of the sinfulness of homosexual behavior NOT "gay marriage".
Gays SHOULD have just as much "right" to lose half of their shit in divorce as I do.
I simply object to being called a hateful bigoted homophobe because I don't buy into the hard sell that gay is normal

You can believe that all you want...just like you can believe that left-handed people aren't normal, that Jews aren't normal, that short people aren't normal. Just don't try to legislate against us.

And don't be surprised when you get called a bigot for saying things like "there's something wrong with gays".

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

lol, then why do you oppose lesbian marriage?

 

[Seawytch]

But can you say that, because you don't agree with me, I am not a bigot?

We certainly disagree. As I'm not hamstrung with your assumptions, I can assess the intention and the harm caused by any given action and glean its morality accordingly. Stealing and oathbreaking cause harm to other people. Homosexuality doesn't.

If a gay couple gets married......nothing happens to you. You're simply unaffected. If a gay couple stole from you, you lose property. And you're most definitely effected.

So the first act wouldn't be immoral or a 'sin' because it causes no harm nor is intended to. While the second is an intentional act to take from you. And would qualify in my opinion.

Thank you for that concession (I think)
But I disagree that one of these things cause no harm in that it is contrary to why I believe we were created as male and female (to go forth and multiply)
Now, mind you, I only speak of the sinfulness of homosexual behavior NOT "gay marriage".
Gays SHOULD have just as much "right" to lose half of their shit in divorce as I do.
I simply object to being called a hateful bigoted homophobe because I don't buy into the hard sell that gay is normal

You can believe that all you want...just like you can believe that left-handed people aren't normal, that Jews aren't normal, that short people aren't normal. Just don't try to legislate against us.

And don't be surprised when you get called a bigot for saying things like "there's something wrong with gays".

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

Stating facts is fine. It's not a fact that being gay is wrong...unless you believe being left handed or red haired or Jewish is wrong.

 

[Skylar]

But can you say that, because you don't agree with me, I am not a bigot?

We certainly disagree. As I'm not hamstrung with your assumptions, I can assess the intention and the harm caused by any given action and glean its morality accordingly. Stealing and oathbreaking cause harm to other people. Homosexuality doesn't.

If a gay couple gets married......nothing happens to you. You're simply unaffected. If a gay couple stole from you, you lose property. And you're most definitely effected.

So the first act wouldn't be immoral or a 'sin' because it causes no harm nor is intended to. While the second is an intentional act to take from you. And would qualify in my opinion.

Thank you for that concession (I think)
But I disagree that one of these things cause no harm in that it is contrary to why I believe we were created as male and female (to go forth and multiply)
Now, mind you, I only speak of the sinfulness of homosexual behavior NOT "gay marriage".
Gays SHOULD have just as much "right" to lose half of their shit in divorce as I do.
I simply object to being called a hateful bigoted homophobe because I don't buy into the hard sell that gay is normal

You can believe that all you want...just like you can believe that left-handed people aren't normal, that Jews aren't normal, that short people aren't normal. Just don't try to legislate against us.

And don't be surprised when you get called a bigot for saying things like "there's something wrong with gays".

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

Compare the health profiles of lesbians to straight women. They're fine. So is lesbianism okay in your assessment?

 

[The Rabbi]

We certainly disagree. As I'm not hamstrung with your assumptions, I can assess the intention and the harm caused by any given action and glean its morality accordingly. Stealing and oathbreaking cause harm to other people. Homosexuality doesn't.

If a gay couple gets married......nothing happens to you. You're simply unaffected. If a gay couple stole from you, you lose property. And you're most definitely effected.

So the first act wouldn't be immoral or a 'sin' because it causes no harm nor is intended to. While the second is an intentional act to take from you. And would qualify in my opinion.

Thank you for that concession (I think)
But I disagree that one of these things cause no harm in that it is contrary to why I believe we were created as male and female (to go forth and multiply)
Now, mind you, I only speak of the sinfulness of homosexual behavior NOT "gay marriage".
Gays SHOULD have just as much "right" to lose half of their shit in divorce as I do.
I simply object to being called a hateful bigoted homophobe because I don't buy into the hard sell that gay is normal

You can believe that all you want...just like you can believe that left-handed people aren't normal, that Jews aren't normal, that short people aren't normal. Just don't try to legislate against us.

And don't be surprised when you get called a bigot for saying things like "there's something wrong with gays".

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

Stating facts is fine. It's not a fact that being gay is wrong...unless you believe being left handed or red haired or Jewish is wrong.

Can you ever be honest and straight (so to speak)? Is it some inability you have to read and understand simple sentences?
He wrote that there was something wrong with gay people. That is not the same as "being gay is wrong." He might think that as well, and probably does. But that isnt what his post was concerned with. You understand the difference, right?

 

[Skylar]

The part that says...."all people"

All people means marriage? You must speak a different dialect of English than the rest ofus, Nutwhacker.

I believe the law says "all persons"

Now, if they were willing to say "all persons except for homosexuals" you might have a point

It doesnt. Homosexuals have exactly the same rights as anyone else. Presently two heterosexual men cannot marry either.

They can in a MAJORITY of states...37 out of 50, actually.

Argument 2.
Next.

That's not a rebuttal. That's not even a reply. That's just a number.

Can you see why your side has lost this issue both legally and in the public mind?

 

[Seawytch]

Thank you for that concession (I think)
But I disagree that one of these things cause no harm in that it is contrary to why I believe we were created as male and female (to go forth and multiply)
Now, mind you, I only speak of the sinfulness of homosexual behavior NOT "gay marriage".
Gays SHOULD have just as much "right" to lose half of their shit in divorce as I do.
I simply object to being called a hateful bigoted homophobe because I don't buy into the hard sell that gay is normal

You can believe that all you want...just like you can believe that left-handed people aren't normal, that Jews aren't normal, that short people aren't normal. Just don't try to legislate against us.

And don't be surprised when you get called a bigot for saying things like "there's something wrong with gays".

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

Stating facts is fine. It's not a fact that being gay is wrong...unless you believe being left handed or red haired or Jewish is wrong.

Can you ever be honest and straight (so to speak)? Is it some inability you have to read and understand simple sentences?
He wrote that there was something wrong with gay people. That is not the same as "being gay is wrong." He might think that as well, and probably does. But that isnt what his post was concerned with. You understand the difference, right?

Neither is true. Gay is not wrong and there's nothing wrong with being gay...anymore than its "wrong" to have red hair or be Jewish.

 

[The Rabbi]

You can believe that all you want...just like you can believe that left-handed people aren't normal, that Jews aren't normal, that short people aren't normal. Just don't try to legislate against us.

And don't be surprised when you get called a bigot for saying things like "there's something wrong with gays".

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

Stating facts is fine. It's not a fact that being gay is wrong...unless you believe being left handed or red haired or Jewish is wrong.

Can you ever be honest and straight (so to speak)? Is it some inability you have to read and understand simple sentences?
He wrote that there was something wrong with gay people. That is not the same as "being gay is wrong." He might think that as well, and probably does. But that isnt what his post was concerned with. You understand the difference, right?

Neither is true. Gay is not wrong and there's nothing wrong with being gay...anymore than its "wrong" to have red hair or be Jewish.

OK so the answer to my question is No, you cannot be honest.
No one died from being left handed.

 

[bodecea]

This sums a lot of liberals in this thread up quite nicely.

Replace the word "gay" with either "inter-racial" or "inter-faith" and see how your cartoon sounds.

 

[bodecea]

And don't be surprised when you get called a bigot for saying things like "there's something wrong with gays".

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

Stating facts is fine. It's not a fact that being gay is wrong...unless you believe being left handed or red haired or Jewish is wrong.

Can you ever be honest and straight (so to speak)? Is it some inability you have to read and understand simple sentences?
He wrote that there was something wrong with gay people. That is not the same as "being gay is wrong." He might think that as well, and probably does. But that isnt what his post was concerned with. You understand the difference, right?

Neither is true. Gay is not wrong and there's nothing wrong with being gay...anymore than its "wrong" to have red hair or be Jewish.

OK so the answer to my question is No, you cannot be honest.
No one died from being left handed.

And no one died from being gay.....

 

[Seawytch]

And don't be surprised when you get called a bigot for saying things like "there's something wrong with gays".

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

Stating facts is fine. It's not a fact that being gay is wrong...unless you believe being left handed or red haired or Jewish is wrong.

Can you ever be honest and straight (so to speak)? Is it some inability you have to read and understand simple sentences?
He wrote that there was something wrong with gay people. That is not the same as "being gay is wrong." He might think that as well, and probably does. But that isnt what his post was concerned with. You understand the difference, right?

Neither is true. Gay is not wrong and there's nothing wrong with being gay...anymore than its "wrong" to have red hair or be Jewish.

OK so the answer to my question is No, you cannot be honest.
No one died from being left handed.

No one dies from being gay either.

 

[rightwinger]

What's really yucky and creepy is this.

Dennis Hastert Hid His Skeletons As He Helped Push GOP s Anti-Gay Agenda

The man Republicans put up to be third in line for the Presidency

And they impeached Clinton

 

[rightwinger]

We certainly disagree. As I'm not hamstrung with your assumptions, I can assess the intention and the harm caused by any given action and glean its morality accordingly. Stealing and oathbreaking cause harm to other people. Homosexuality doesn't.

If a gay couple gets married......nothing happens to you. You're simply unaffected. If a gay couple stole from you, you lose property. And you're most definitely effected.

So the first act wouldn't be immoral or a 'sin' because it causes no harm nor is intended to. While the second is an intentional act to take from you. And would qualify in my opinion.

Thank you for that concession (I think)
But I disagree that one of these things cause no harm in that it is contrary to why I believe we were created as male and female (to go forth and multiply)
Now, mind you, I only speak of the sinfulness of homosexual behavior NOT "gay marriage".
Gays SHOULD have just as much "right" to lose half of their shit in divorce as I do.
I simply object to being called a hateful bigoted homophobe because I don't buy into the hard sell that gay is normal

You can believe that all you want...just like you can believe that left-handed people aren't normal, that Jews aren't normal, that short people aren't normal. Just don't try to legislate against us.

Ok.

Then it's best settled by the courts and/or state legislatures.
Just don't put it on my ballot

We didn't want it on your ballot. Civil rights should never be put up for popular vote.

My state calls for a 60% majority vote, by ballot, for any amendment to the state constitution

Why should you get to vote on who gets to Marry?

Did anyone vote on your marriage?