Sanders admits he'd tax the middle class for universal healthcare

[mudwhistle]

Actually your head is up your ass.
When has any Democrat come thru on any promise only to tax the rich?

You mean other than Obama... and Clinton... and FDR?

Good gosh, you are one of those that have bought into that ridiculous talking point.

No, I'm one of those people who was actually alive during the time we did that and it was a better time than we have now.

Liar.
Clinton and Obama said they wouldn't raise taxes on anyone making less than $250K/yr.......and instead they raised taxes on everyone.
Obama raised excise taxes on 9 different sales goods in his first week including cigarettes, liquor, and anything with sugar in it.
Then Obama signed Obamacare which was the largest tax increase in US History. FDR raised taxes in 1937 in an attempt to balance the budget but instead it caused the economy to go into another recession and lengthened the Great Depression. Bill Clinton raised taxes and didn't get a decent economy until he cut taxes in 1997.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

When I was working in it, the private systems had many more safeguards than the government systems. Private insurance didn't waste nearly as much money as government, and the money they did waste was because of government regulations.

In fact after I left and went into another field of work, Medicare had Prudential handle all of their claims. The government hired private industry to do the job they couldn't do. Private companies are much more efficient when it comes to money.

It is apparent that the most costly HC system in the world is not working for the American people. Life expectancy is dropping for the first time ever. Millions are uninsured and underinsured. Bankruptcies from the fraudulent HC system are high.

Medicare for all will save money...proof at the link. Time to do it. Is it a great solution? No. Just a better one than what exists now.
Koch-Backed Think Tank Finds That “Medicare for All” Would Cut Health Care Spending and Raise Wages. Whoops.

That's one persons opinion, and he's been an advocate for social programs his entire life.

This all reminds me of several years ago when Obama first got into office. I was at the post office in a line of about fifteen people. A short older black lady in front of me said aloud "This is ridiculous! All of us standing here and they only have one postal worker behind the counter!" The postal worker just looked up and said nothing.

At that point I told the lady "Don't look now, but these are the very same people that want to run our healthcare." She (obviously an Obama supporter) gave me the dirtiest look.

There is a half-way solution to all this, but neither side would give in.

Not sure of how long the government will allow me to work, I checked into disability. I was told by a social security agent that if I got on disability, after two years, I could buy into the Medicare plan. The rates are reasonable ($180 a month to $300 a month depending on what coverage you desire).

So why just people on disability? Why can't we allow people like myself with preexisting conditions to buy into Medicare if private plans are unaffordable?

Think of how much lower private insurance would be without preexisting condition people on them. We could go on Medicare at an affordable price, and the people who keep their insurance could keep their plan, or even augment their plan for much less money.

It is not one man’s opinion. The column refers to a study commissioned by the neocon Koch Brothers. It proves Medicare for all is cheaper. Of course, the MSM ignored this study because they do the bidding of their bosses, the billionaires, and they don’t want it.

If O wasn’t entirely owned and controlled by the billionaires and big corporations, he could have enacted Medicare for all in his first two years. O was a fraud, warmonger, and a terrible elitist.

It is one persons opinion because I can find studies that say just the opposite. Then the question would be how much less care and innovation would we have with Medicare for all? What are the problems it will create? After all, the reason we have so many foreign doctors here instead of where they came from is because they make a much better living in the USA. Trust me, I'm a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. When I go to their downtown campus, I'm the one who feels like a foreigner.

We have good doctors and not so good doctors. We have the best hospitals in the world, and some not so good. So if we are all on one program, who gets to choose what doctors or facilities we are allowed to have? We can't make that decision, because we would all decide on the best doctors or surgeons for ourselves and family.

Would that mean if Democrats are in charge, middle-class and wealthy people get the crap doctors? Or if the Republicans are in charge, the poor get the crappy hospitals and doctors? How would we do that?

After that, we need to examine how much more control will the government have over it's citizens if we are solely dependent on them to provide medical care. Right now, we all have a choice. Once government is a monopoly, those choices will be gone. So what could happen here with government healthcare? The same things that happened in other places.

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

Fat in Japan? You're breaking the law.

I think you are over thinking this. Medicare is already in place and has been for decades. Most who use it find it acceptable. If it works for Americans over 65, it will work for all Americans. Doctors will still make a great living, but now the profit motive is gone and the huge number of administrators and such are gone too.

Have you heard of Americans denied care under Medicare?

Actually, yes I have.

You see, government only pays about 2/3 of the cost for their patents. Not a huge loss for a hundred dollar office visit, but a great loss for a $70,000 surgery.

So what happens now is that doctors and facilities have to charge much more for their services to recoup those losses from government. That means private pay and those with insurance are paying much more than they should for the care they're getting. And of course, that means higher and more unaffordable premiums for those not on government programs.

This is why when you see healthcare facilities close down, it's usually in lower income areas where most people are on government programs. There is nowhere to recoup the losses from.

God bless my father. For an 88 year old guy, he still has his mental abilities. He's had several procedures since he went on Medicare. He told me after his first surgery, he got back way more from Medicare than he and his employers contributed his entire working life.

If a new bank opens up, and they let you deposit a 500 dollar check, and allow you to withdraw 600 at the same time, that bank won't be in business for very long.

So now the question with Medicare for all is, how will those facilities be able to recoup losses by government underpay with no private insurance around?

Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com

 

[BluesLegend]

Breaking: Sanders promises to sell 2 of his 3 houses and give the money to the poor...NOT!

 

[BluesLegend]

Actually your head is up your ass.
When has any Democrat come thru on any promise only to tax the rich?

You mean other than Obama... and Clinton... and FDR?

Good gosh, you are one of those that have bought into that ridiculous talking point.

No, I'm one of those people who was actually alive during the time we did that and it was a better time than we have now.

Liar.
Clinton and Obama said they wouldn't raise taxes on anyone making less than $250K/yr.......and instead they raised taxes on everyone.
Obama raised excise taxes on 9 different sales goods in his first week including cigarettes, liquor, and anything with sugar in it.
Then Obama signed Obamacare which was the largest tax increase in US History. FDR raised taxes in 1937 in an attempt to balance the budget but instead it caused the economy to go into another recession and lengthened the Great Depression. Bill Clinton raised taxes and didn't get a decent economy until he cut taxes in 1997.

What is with these Dem weirdos and their hand raising? They are like call on me call on me why aren't you calling on me

 

[gipper]

It is apparent that the most costly HC system in the world is not working for the American people. Life expectancy is dropping for the first time ever. Millions are uninsured and underinsured. Bankruptcies from the fraudulent HC system are high.

Medicare for all will save money...proof at the link. Time to do it. Is it a great solution? No. Just a better one than what exists now.
Koch-Backed Think Tank Finds That “Medicare for All” Would Cut Health Care Spending and Raise Wages. Whoops.

That's one persons opinion, and he's been an advocate for social programs his entire life.

This all reminds me of several years ago when Obama first got into office. I was at the post office in a line of about fifteen people. A short older black lady in front of me said aloud "This is ridiculous! All of us standing here and they only have one postal worker behind the counter!" The postal worker just looked up and said nothing.

At that point I told the lady "Don't look now, but these are the very same people that want to run our healthcare." She (obviously an Obama supporter) gave me the dirtiest look.

There is a half-way solution to all this, but neither side would give in.

Not sure of how long the government will allow me to work, I checked into disability. I was told by a social security agent that if I got on disability, after two years, I could buy into the Medicare plan. The rates are reasonable ($180 a month to $300 a month depending on what coverage you desire).

So why just people on disability? Why can't we allow people like myself with preexisting conditions to buy into Medicare if private plans are unaffordable?

Think of how much lower private insurance would be without preexisting condition people on them. We could go on Medicare at an affordable price, and the people who keep their insurance could keep their plan, or even augment their plan for much less money.

It is not one man’s opinion. The column refers to a study commissioned by the neocon Koch Brothers. It proves Medicare for all is cheaper. Of course, the MSM ignored this study because they do the bidding of their bosses, the billionaires, and they don’t want it.

If O wasn’t entirely owned and controlled by the billionaires and big corporations, he could have enacted Medicare for all in his first two years. O was a fraud, warmonger, and a terrible elitist.

It is one persons opinion because I can find studies that say just the opposite. Then the question would be how much less care and innovation would we have with Medicare for all? What are the problems it will create? After all, the reason we have so many foreign doctors here instead of where they came from is because they make a much better living in the USA. Trust me, I'm a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. When I go to their downtown campus, I'm the one who feels like a foreigner.

We have good doctors and not so good doctors. We have the best hospitals in the world, and some not so good. So if we are all on one program, who gets to choose what doctors or facilities we are allowed to have? We can't make that decision, because we would all decide on the best doctors or surgeons for ourselves and family.

Would that mean if Democrats are in charge, middle-class and wealthy people get the crap doctors? Or if the Republicans are in charge, the poor get the crappy hospitals and doctors? How would we do that?

After that, we need to examine how much more control will the government have over it's citizens if we are solely dependent on them to provide medical care. Right now, we all have a choice. Once government is a monopoly, those choices will be gone. So what could happen here with government healthcare? The same things that happened in other places.

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

Fat in Japan? You're breaking the law.

I think you are over thinking this. Medicare is already in place and has been for decades. Most who use it find it acceptable. If it works for Americans over 65, it will work for all Americans. Doctors will still make a great living, but now the profit motive is gone and the huge number of administrators and such are gone too.

Have you heard of Americans denied care under Medicare?

Actually, yes I have.

You see, government only pays about 2/3 of the cost for their patents. Not a huge loss for a hundred dollar office visit, but a great loss for a $70,000 surgery.

So what happens now is that doctors and facilities have to charge much more for their services to recoup those losses from government. That means private pay and those with insurance are paying much more than they should for the care they're getting. And of course, that means higher and more unaffordable premiums for those not on government programs.

This is why when you see healthcare facilities close down, it's usually in lower income areas where most people are on government programs. There is nowhere to recoup the losses from.

God bless my father. For an 88 year old guy, he still has his mental abilities. He's had several procedures since he went on Medicare. He told me after his first surgery, he got back way more from Medicare than he and his employers contributed his entire working life.

If a new bank opens up, and they let you deposit a 500 dollar check, and allow you to withdraw 600 at the same time, that bank won't be in business for very long.

So now the question with Medicare for all is, how will those facilities be able to recoup losses by government underpay with no private insurance around?

Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com

You are making huge assumptions. The cost of HC in this country is massively inflated. HC costs have gone up more than just about everything over the past 30 years. It’s time to get it under control.

Glad your father is doing well. My father spent the last few weeks of his life in intensive care. Enormous costs were incurred after several weeks in ICU. Medicare covered nearly all of it.

 

[Rustic]

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's one persons opinion, and he's been an advocate for social programs his entire life.

This all reminds me of several years ago when Obama first got into office. I was at the post office in a line of about fifteen people. A short older black lady in front of me said aloud "This is ridiculous! All of us standing here and they only have one postal worker behind the counter!" The postal worker just looked up and said nothing.

At that point I told the lady "Don't look now, but these are the very same people that want to run our healthcare." She (obviously an Obama supporter) gave me the dirtiest look.

There is a half-way solution to all this, but neither side would give in.

Not sure of how long the government will allow me to work, I checked into disability. I was told by a social security agent that if I got on disability, after two years, I could buy into the Medicare plan. The rates are reasonable ($180 a month to $300 a month depending on what coverage you desire).

So why just people on disability? Why can't we allow people like myself with preexisting conditions to buy into Medicare if private plans are unaffordable?

Think of how much lower private insurance would be without preexisting condition people on them. We could go on Medicare at an affordable price, and the people who keep their insurance could keep their plan, or even augment their plan for much less money.

It is not one man’s opinion. The column refers to a study commissioned by the neocon Koch Brothers. It proves Medicare for all is cheaper. Of course, the MSM ignored this study because they do the bidding of their bosses, the billionaires, and they don’t want it.

If O wasn’t entirely owned and controlled by the billionaires and big corporations, he could have enacted Medicare for all in his first two years. O was a fraud, warmonger, and a terrible elitist.

It is one persons opinion because I can find studies that say just the opposite. Then the question would be how much less care and innovation would we have with Medicare for all? What are the problems it will create? After all, the reason we have so many foreign doctors here instead of where they came from is because they make a much better living in the USA. Trust me, I'm a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. When I go to their downtown campus, I'm the one who feels like a foreigner.

We have good doctors and not so good doctors. We have the best hospitals in the world, and some not so good. So if we are all on one program, who gets to choose what doctors or facilities we are allowed to have? We can't make that decision, because we would all decide on the best doctors or surgeons for ourselves and family.

Would that mean if Democrats are in charge, middle-class and wealthy people get the crap doctors? Or if the Republicans are in charge, the poor get the crappy hospitals and doctors? How would we do that?

After that, we need to examine how much more control will the government have over it's citizens if we are solely dependent on them to provide medical care. Right now, we all have a choice. Once government is a monopoly, those choices will be gone. So what could happen here with government healthcare? The same things that happened in other places.

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

Fat in Japan? You're breaking the law.

I think you are over thinking this. Medicare is already in place and has been for decades. Most who use it find it acceptable. If it works for Americans over 65, it will work for all Americans. Doctors will still make a great living, but now the profit motive is gone and the huge number of administrators and such are gone too.

Have you heard of Americans denied care under Medicare?

Actually, yes I have.

You see, government only pays about 2/3 of the cost for their patents. Not a huge loss for a hundred dollar office visit, but a great loss for a $70,000 surgery.

So what happens now is that doctors and facilities have to charge much more for their services to recoup those losses from government. That means private pay and those with insurance are paying much more than they should for the care they're getting. And of course, that means higher and more unaffordable premiums for those not on government programs.

This is why when you see healthcare facilities close down, it's usually in lower income areas where most people are on government programs. There is nowhere to recoup the losses from.

God bless my father. For an 88 year old guy, he still has his mental abilities. He's had several procedures since he went on Medicare. He told me after his first surgery, he got back way more from Medicare than he and his employers contributed his entire working life.

If a new bank opens up, and they let you deposit a 500 dollar check, and allow you to withdraw 600 at the same time, that bank won't be in business for very long.

So now the question with Medicare for all is, how will those facilities be able to recoup losses by government underpay with no private insurance around?

Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com

You are making huge assumptions. The cost of HC in this country is massively inflated. HC costs have gone up more than just about everything over the past 30 years. It’s time to get it under control.

Glad your father is doing well. My father spent the last few weeks of his life in intensive care. Enormous costs were incurred after several weeks in ICU. Medicare covered nearly all of it.

No, they probably only paid the same as everybody else. Doctors and hospitals won't come after you for the money government cheated them. Increased prices is how they get some of the money back. These are not assumptions. I've seen it with my own eyes.

True story: Back when I was in medical, we were opening up a pharmacy in the early 80's. After one of our weekly meetings, we all ran to the coffee pot in the warehouse and as usual, began our own little discussions.

At the time, UPS was on strike so that was the subject. The pharmacist who was in charge of constructing the pharmacy stood in silence, and walked away abruptly. We all just kind of looked at each other stunned. We didn't know her very well.

The coffee crew broke up, and as usual, I was the last one at the pot. The pharmacist came back and shoved a magazine in my stomach. It was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was the UPS strike.

Back then, the senior UPS drivers were making 55K a year. A pharmacist was averaging 65K a year. She was furious. She said "Do you know what I went through to become a pharmacist? Do you know what my parents went through? And these assholes have the audacity to strike? I should be the one striking. Had I know this before I went to college, I would have said the hell with that and got a job at UPS!!!"

Unions and their ability to force companies to overpay employees left the medical field void of badly needed personnel. The only way to attract those people was pay increases. Until this day, our country is still short many RN"s just to name one field of work.

 

[JoeB131]

I was working during both Obama and Clinton's tenure. I disagree with your assesment. I am doing much better now under this economy. If you live in one of the deep blue states or inner cities, it may be time to get out from under that cloud.

Actually, I had great times under Obama and Clinton. When you got the bush Crime family in charge, that's when things get fucked up.

Trump will fuck it up, too... and people like you will deny you ever supported him... kind of like you do with the bush's now.

 

[rightwinger]

The

Medicare-For-All WILL save money over the current system. We all know the current system is way too expensive and not every effective, particularly as American’s life expectancy is dropping.

The problem is the ruling class likes the current system because it makes them even more wealthy. Ever increasing profits are the number one goal. Improving American’s health care isn’t considered. The ruling class controls both criminal parties and the MSM. So, the truth won’t be allowed in.

the ruling class being ? I don't hear any of these "Candidiots" saying they are going to give up their Private Doctors. They want Medicare for "all of us" not for "any of them". Medicare for all means shitty care and rationed care for everyone except the "Elite" who will keep their private Doctors. The Medical field will be Abandoned by anyone who wants to be Doctor and most who already are. We pay them for what they Know not what they do! I can't repair a heart can you?

We have shitty care now that is absurdly expensive. For the first time ever, Americans life expectancy is falling. WTF!!! The system is designed for maximizing profits for big corporations. Is there anything that has gone up in cost faster and longer than HC?

Medicare for all is the answer. Americans who use Medicare find it acceptable and care is not rationed. Stop accepting the BS from the establishment.

Medicare is also going broke.

How is it medical costs are rising so fast, and yet, Medicare contributions have not increased in many years?

When I was working in medical, I can't tell you the waste of money that took place with Medicare and Medicaid. Democrats back then used the programs to create needless government jobs. The more people who work for government, the more likely people to vote Democrat. Things didn't change until Reagan was elected and addressed the serious problem.

The number of government employees hasn’t increased in fifty years

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

And then lies by saying the "savings" would more than offset the cost. I know for a FACT that's not possible. Don't know about you, but I don't much care for being lied to on this level. He's a socialist through and through. Sanders only virtue is an equal share of misery, all while he maintains his wealthy status and gathers more.

How wold you "know" this for a fact?

Single Payer would reduce costs in several ways.

1) It would get rid of the exorbitant salaries of Executives (Some of them as large as 9 figures)

2) IT would get rid of payouts to stockholders.

3) With single payer, hospitals would be forced to do honest billing, rather than shit like charging $100 for an aspirin.

4) We would not have the expense of the 62% of bankruptcies that are linked to medical crisis.


The fact is, this is not a crazy idea that no one has ever tried. Most of the rest of the industrialized world has single payer.

They spend less per capita than we do, they live longer, they have lower infant mortality rates.

Idiot Joe strikes again. Until you reduce tuition to become a MD this is impossible. No logical human would spend $300k to become a doctor and then become an employee of the Govt. Only way it works, Joe, you stupid and racist buffoon is to either significantly reduce the cost of education or give Doctors a 5% tax rate for life. You’re one of the dumbest posters on this board.

 

[rightwinger]

Breaking: Sanders promises to sell 2 of his 3 houses and give the money to the poor...NOT!

Why shouldn’t Sanders have houses?

He has nothing against rich people and he is far from being rich. He just wants them to contribute more to our society

 

[rightwinger]

It is not one man’s opinion. The column refers to a study commissioned by the neocon Koch Brothers. It proves Medicare for all is cheaper. Of course, the MSM ignored this study because they do the bidding of their bosses, the billionaires, and they don’t want it.

If O wasn’t entirely owned and controlled by the billionaires and big corporations, he could have enacted Medicare for all in his first two years. O was a fraud, warmonger, and a terrible elitist.

It is one persons opinion because I can find studies that say just the opposite. Then the question would be how much less care and innovation would we have with Medicare for all? What are the problems it will create? After all, the reason we have so many foreign doctors here instead of where they came from is because they make a much better living in the USA. Trust me, I'm a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. When I go to their downtown campus, I'm the one who feels like a foreigner.

We have good doctors and not so good doctors. We have the best hospitals in the world, and some not so good. So if we are all on one program, who gets to choose what doctors or facilities we are allowed to have? We can't make that decision, because we would all decide on the best doctors or surgeons for ourselves and family.

Would that mean if Democrats are in charge, middle-class and wealthy people get the crap doctors? Or if the Republicans are in charge, the poor get the crappy hospitals and doctors? How would we do that?

After that, we need to examine how much more control will the government have over it's citizens if we are solely dependent on them to provide medical care. Right now, we all have a choice. Once government is a monopoly, those choices will be gone. So what could happen here with government healthcare? The same things that happened in other places.

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

Fat in Japan? You're breaking the law.

I think you are over thinking this. Medicare is already in place and has been for decades. Most who use it find it acceptable. If it works for Americans over 65, it will work for all Americans. Doctors will still make a great living, but now the profit motive is gone and the huge number of administrators and such are gone too.

Have you heard of Americans denied care under Medicare?

Actually, yes I have.

You see, government only pays about 2/3 of the cost for their patents. Not a huge loss for a hundred dollar office visit, but a great loss for a $70,000 surgery.

So what happens now is that doctors and facilities have to charge much more for their services to recoup those losses from government. That means private pay and those with insurance are paying much more than they should for the care they're getting. And of course, that means higher and more unaffordable premiums for those not on government programs.

This is why when you see healthcare facilities close down, it's usually in lower income areas where most people are on government programs. There is nowhere to recoup the losses from.

God bless my father. For an 88 year old guy, he still has his mental abilities. He's had several procedures since he went on Medicare. He told me after his first surgery, he got back way more from Medicare than he and his employers contributed his entire working life.

If a new bank opens up, and they let you deposit a 500 dollar check, and allow you to withdraw 600 at the same time, that bank won't be in business for very long.

So now the question with Medicare for all is, how will those facilities be able to recoup losses by government underpay with no private insurance around?

Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com

You are making huge assumptions. The cost of HC in this country is massively inflated. HC costs have gone up more than just about everything over the past 30 years. It’s time to get it under control.

Glad your father is doing well. My father spent the last few weeks of his life in intensive care. Enormous costs were incurred after several weeks in ICU. Medicare covered nearly all of it.

No, they probably only paid the same as everybody else. Doctors and hospitals won't come after you for the money government cheated them. Increased prices is how they get some of the money back. These are not assumptions. I've seen it with my own eyes.

True story: Back when I was in medical, we were opening up a pharmacy in the early 80's. After one of our weekly meetings, we all ran to the coffee pot in the warehouse and as usual, began our own little discussions.

At the time, UPS was on strike so that was the subject. The pharmacist who was in charge of constructing the pharmacy stood in silence, and walked away abruptly. We all just kind of looked at each other stunned. We didn't know her very well.

The coffee crew broke up, and as usual, I was the last one at the pot. The pharmacist came back and shoved a magazine in my stomach. It was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was the UPS strike.

Back then, the senior UPS drivers were making 55K a year. A pharmacist was averaging 65K a year. She was furious. She said "Do you know what I went through to become a pharmacist? Do you know what my parents went through? And these assholes have the audacity to strike? I should be the one striking. Had I know this before I went to college, I would have said the hell with that and got a job at UPS!!!"

Unions and their ability to force companies to overpay employees left the medical field void of badly needed personnel. The only way to attract those people was pay increases. Until this day, our country is still short many RN"s just to name one field of work.

Didn’t see many pharmacists quitting to become UPS drivers did you?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It is one persons opinion because I can find studies that say just the opposite. Then the question would be how much less care and innovation would we have with Medicare for all? What are the problems it will create? After all, the reason we have so many foreign doctors here instead of where they came from is because they make a much better living in the USA. Trust me, I'm a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. When I go to their downtown campus, I'm the one who feels like a foreigner.

We have good doctors and not so good doctors. We have the best hospitals in the world, and some not so good. So if we are all on one program, who gets to choose what doctors or facilities we are allowed to have? We can't make that decision, because we would all decide on the best doctors or surgeons for ourselves and family.

Would that mean if Democrats are in charge, middle-class and wealthy people get the crap doctors? Or if the Republicans are in charge, the poor get the crappy hospitals and doctors? How would we do that?

After that, we need to examine how much more control will the government have over it's citizens if we are solely dependent on them to provide medical care. Right now, we all have a choice. Once government is a monopoly, those choices will be gone. So what could happen here with government healthcare? The same things that happened in other places.

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

Fat in Japan? You're breaking the law.

I think you are over thinking this. Medicare is already in place and has been for decades. Most who use it find it acceptable. If it works for Americans over 65, it will work for all Americans. Doctors will still make a great living, but now the profit motive is gone and the huge number of administrators and such are gone too.

Have you heard of Americans denied care under Medicare?

Actually, yes I have.

You see, government only pays about 2/3 of the cost for their patents. Not a huge loss for a hundred dollar office visit, but a great loss for a $70,000 surgery.

So what happens now is that doctors and facilities have to charge much more for their services to recoup those losses from government. That means private pay and those with insurance are paying much more than they should for the care they're getting. And of course, that means higher and more unaffordable premiums for those not on government programs.

This is why when you see healthcare facilities close down, it's usually in lower income areas where most people are on government programs. There is nowhere to recoup the losses from.

God bless my father. For an 88 year old guy, he still has his mental abilities. He's had several procedures since he went on Medicare. He told me after his first surgery, he got back way more from Medicare than he and his employers contributed his entire working life.

If a new bank opens up, and they let you deposit a 500 dollar check, and allow you to withdraw 600 at the same time, that bank won't be in business for very long.

So now the question with Medicare for all is, how will those facilities be able to recoup losses by government underpay with no private insurance around?

Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com

You are making huge assumptions. The cost of HC in this country is massively inflated. HC costs have gone up more than just about everything over the past 30 years. It’s time to get it under control.

Glad your father is doing well. My father spent the last few weeks of his life in intensive care. Enormous costs were incurred after several weeks in ICU. Medicare covered nearly all of it.

No, they probably only paid the same as everybody else. Doctors and hospitals won't come after you for the money government cheated them. Increased prices is how they get some of the money back. These are not assumptions. I've seen it with my own eyes.

True story: Back when I was in medical, we were opening up a pharmacy in the early 80's. After one of our weekly meetings, we all ran to the coffee pot in the warehouse and as usual, began our own little discussions.

At the time, UPS was on strike so that was the subject. The pharmacist who was in charge of constructing the pharmacy stood in silence, and walked away abruptly. We all just kind of looked at each other stunned. We didn't know her very well.

The coffee crew broke up, and as usual, I was the last one at the pot. The pharmacist came back and shoved a magazine in my stomach. It was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was the UPS strike.

Back then, the senior UPS drivers were making 55K a year. A pharmacist was averaging 65K a year. She was furious. She said "Do you know what I went through to become a pharmacist? Do you know what my parents went through? And these assholes have the audacity to strike? I should be the one striking. Had I know this before I went to college, I would have said the hell with that and got a job at UPS!!!"

Unions and their ability to force companies to overpay employees left the medical field void of badly needed personnel. The only way to attract those people was pay increases. Until this day, our country is still short many RN"s just to name one field of work.

Didn’t see many pharmacists quitting to become UPS drivers did you?

I'm sure there are people who didn't become a pharmacist though. Of course nobody is going to go to school all that time and then become a driver. They would have done that long before school and I'm sure some did.

Most living creatures survive on a reward system. When you find out you will not be rewarded all that much more than a person who didn't try nearly as hard as you, what's the point in trying harder?

 

[rightwinger]

I think you are over thinking this. Medicare is already in place and has been for decades. Most who use it find it acceptable. If it works for Americans over 65, it will work for all Americans. Doctors will still make a great living, but now the profit motive is gone and the huge number of administrators and such are gone too.

Have you heard of Americans denied care under Medicare?

Actually, yes I have.

You see, government only pays about 2/3 of the cost for their patents. Not a huge loss for a hundred dollar office visit, but a great loss for a $70,000 surgery.

So what happens now is that doctors and facilities have to charge much more for their services to recoup those losses from government. That means private pay and those with insurance are paying much more than they should for the care they're getting. And of course, that means higher and more unaffordable premiums for those not on government programs.

This is why when you see healthcare facilities close down, it's usually in lower income areas where most people are on government programs. There is nowhere to recoup the losses from.

God bless my father. For an 88 year old guy, he still has his mental abilities. He's had several procedures since he went on Medicare. He told me after his first surgery, he got back way more from Medicare than he and his employers contributed his entire working life.

If a new bank opens up, and they let you deposit a 500 dollar check, and allow you to withdraw 600 at the same time, that bank won't be in business for very long.

So now the question with Medicare for all is, how will those facilities be able to recoup losses by government underpay with no private insurance around?

Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com

You are making huge assumptions. The cost of HC in this country is massively inflated. HC costs have gone up more than just about everything over the past 30 years. It’s time to get it under control.

Glad your father is doing well. My father spent the last few weeks of his life in intensive care. Enormous costs were incurred after several weeks in ICU. Medicare covered nearly all of it.

No, they probably only paid the same as everybody else. Doctors and hospitals won't come after you for the money government cheated them. Increased prices is how they get some of the money back. These are not assumptions. I've seen it with my own eyes.

True story: Back when I was in medical, we were opening up a pharmacy in the early 80's. After one of our weekly meetings, we all ran to the coffee pot in the warehouse and as usual, began our own little discussions.

At the time, UPS was on strike so that was the subject. The pharmacist who was in charge of constructing the pharmacy stood in silence, and walked away abruptly. We all just kind of looked at each other stunned. We didn't know her very well.

The coffee crew broke up, and as usual, I was the last one at the pot. The pharmacist came back and shoved a magazine in my stomach. It was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was the UPS strike.

Back then, the senior UPS drivers were making 55K a year. A pharmacist was averaging 65K a year. She was furious. She said "Do you know what I went through to become a pharmacist? Do you know what my parents went through? And these assholes have the audacity to strike? I should be the one striking. Had I know this before I went to college, I would have said the hell with that and got a job at UPS!!!"

Unions and their ability to force companies to overpay employees left the medical field void of badly needed personnel. The only way to attract those people was pay increases. Until this day, our country is still short many RN"s just to name one field of work.

Didn’t see many pharmacists quitting to become UPS drivers did you?

I'm sure there are people who didn't become a pharmacist though. Of course nobody is going to go to school all that time and then become a driver. They would have done that long before school and I'm sure some did.

Most living creatures survive on a reward system. When you find out you will not be rewarded all that much more than a person who didn't try nearly as hard as you, what's the point in trying harder?

Different career paths

If a Garbage man makes $100k, how many pharmacists would want to be garbage men?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Actually, yes I have.

You see, government only pays about 2/3 of the cost for their patents. Not a huge loss for a hundred dollar office visit, but a great loss for a $70,000 surgery.

So what happens now is that doctors and facilities have to charge much more for their services to recoup those losses from government. That means private pay and those with insurance are paying much more than they should for the care they're getting. And of course, that means higher and more unaffordable premiums for those not on government programs.

This is why when you see healthcare facilities close down, it's usually in lower income areas where most people are on government programs. There is nowhere to recoup the losses from.

God bless my father. For an 88 year old guy, he still has his mental abilities. He's had several procedures since he went on Medicare. He told me after his first surgery, he got back way more from Medicare than he and his employers contributed his entire working life.

If a new bank opens up, and they let you deposit a 500 dollar check, and allow you to withdraw 600 at the same time, that bank won't be in business for very long.

So now the question with Medicare for all is, how will those facilities be able to recoup losses by government underpay with no private insurance around?

Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com

You are making huge assumptions. The cost of HC in this country is massively inflated. HC costs have gone up more than just about everything over the past 30 years. It’s time to get it under control.

Glad your father is doing well. My father spent the last few weeks of his life in intensive care. Enormous costs were incurred after several weeks in ICU. Medicare covered nearly all of it.

No, they probably only paid the same as everybody else. Doctors and hospitals won't come after you for the money government cheated them. Increased prices is how they get some of the money back. These are not assumptions. I've seen it with my own eyes.

True story: Back when I was in medical, we were opening up a pharmacy in the early 80's. After one of our weekly meetings, we all ran to the coffee pot in the warehouse and as usual, began our own little discussions.

At the time, UPS was on strike so that was the subject. The pharmacist who was in charge of constructing the pharmacy stood in silence, and walked away abruptly. We all just kind of looked at each other stunned. We didn't know her very well.

The coffee crew broke up, and as usual, I was the last one at the pot. The pharmacist came back and shoved a magazine in my stomach. It was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was the UPS strike.

Back then, the senior UPS drivers were making 55K a year. A pharmacist was averaging 65K a year. She was furious. She said "Do you know what I went through to become a pharmacist? Do you know what my parents went through? And these assholes have the audacity to strike? I should be the one striking. Had I know this before I went to college, I would have said the hell with that and got a job at UPS!!!"

Unions and their ability to force companies to overpay employees left the medical field void of badly needed personnel. The only way to attract those people was pay increases. Until this day, our country is still short many RN"s just to name one field of work.

Didn’t see many pharmacists quitting to become UPS drivers did you?

I'm sure there are people who didn't become a pharmacist though. Of course nobody is going to go to school all that time and then become a driver. They would have done that long before school and I'm sure some did.

Most living creatures survive on a reward system. When you find out you will not be rewarded all that much more than a person who didn't try nearly as hard as you, what's the point in trying harder?

Different career paths

If a Garbage man makes $100k, how many pharmacists would want to be garbage men?

You would be surprised. We have some college educated truck drivers who chose that career because the one they trained for in college paid less or had no job openings. Even Walmart is starting their drivers and near 90K a year these days.

RN's are in short supply across the country and have been the last few decades. If you are an RN, you can work just about anyplace in the country you desire. Why? Because there are blue collar jobs that pay the same, a little less, or even more in some cases.

Today a pharmacist makes on average $110,000 a year. Do you think if Chrysler paid that for a person to ride around on a floor sweeper all day, people would go into six figure debt to be a pharmacist?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I was working during both Obama and Clinton's tenure. I disagree with your assesment. I am doing much better now under this economy. If you live in one of the deep blue states or inner cities, it may be time to get out from under that cloud.

Actually, I had great times under Obama and Clinton. When you got the bush Crime family in charge, that's when things get fucked up.

Trump will fuck it up, too... and people like you will deny you ever supported him... kind of like you do with the bush's now.

So how are you doing today Joe with lower taxes and a booming economy? How are you doing in the stock market? You claim you earn a living making resumes, so your business must be booming like everybody else.

 

[Fang]

Bernie Sanders. LOL

 

[beautress]

At least he's being honest. It wouldn't be a shock to one day see income taxes doubled across the board.

So Bernie lies about how big the tax increase will be and you congratulate him.
Bernie knows he's gonna have to raise taxes so much to pay for his programs....free health care for illegals, single-payer, and free tuition....that we might as well stop working. Expect over 70% of our income to go to federal taxes. Not just the rich, but every working American.

So let's see if the GOP can stop it.
.

As long as the Democrats aren't allowed to register illegals to vote it will never happen.
Many naturalized citizens moved here to escape socialism.
Watching that debate last night scares the shit out of them.

Then you have nothing to worry about!
.

Stop being a fool.
Democrats have figured out ways to cheat. Vote Farming. Manufacturing votes and sending them wherever they're needed after the election.
Wherever Democrats control the polls they're breaking election laws with impunity.
We have to make sure the election is honest.

Mudwhistle: "Democrats have figured out ways to cheat. Vote Farming. Manufacturing votes and sending them wherever they're needed after the election.
Wherever Democrats control the polls they're breaking election laws with impunity.
We have to make sure the election is honest."​

I think this blatant breaking of the law should be met with life sentences, without the possibility for parole, because they are killing the Constitution, killing the right of free people to make a decision, and cheating voters in small states to have a voice in decision-making, as their becoming a member state rested on particular demands, met for signing on to this statehood union that the United States is. When big states' precinct chairmen justify their illegally juggling the votes to win, they are abrogating the votes of small states which voids the promise(s) made to them, and forces small states to be voiceless in choosing the leaders for America. Precinct chairmen must not abjure their oaths to behave with accordance with the laws of the United States of America, all of which were approved by both houses of Congress when the smaller states were admitted to the union. While we are a free people, we are not free to disparage the rights of others by breaking election laws.

I'm so tired of criminally inclined precinct chairpersons pissing away the rights of voters. They receive pay for their services, and if they go against voting laws set in place by complex means, they were still and all ushered in by both Houses of Congress as voting laws and must be respected and not corrupted by greed for power.

 

[g5000]

And then lies by saying the "savings" would more than offset the cost. I know for a FACT that's not possible.

Please prove that fact.

We currently spend more per capita for healthcare than those countries which have single payer.

 

[g5000]

At least he's being honest. It wouldn't be a shock to one day see income taxes doubled across the board.

It more than likely would be paid for with a VAT.