SECESSION!!!!

[MisterBeale]

I wonder if the heated calls for independence will suddenly be muted now.

Such ignorant 'calls' for 'secession' should never had started in the first place, given the fact 'secession' is un-Constitutional.

Bullshit. Quote the part of the Constitution or the Supreme Court Decision that makes it so. You can't, because it isn't. Only the threat of brute force, which is, by all accounts, the last resort of evil men and losers.

"At the 1787 constitutional convention, a proposal was made to allow the federal government to suppress a seceding state. James Madison, the acknowledged father of our Constitution, rejected it, saying: "A Union of the States containing such an ingredient seemed to provide for its own destruction. The use of force against a State would look more like a declaration of war than an infliction of punishment and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound."

On March 2, 1861, after seven states had seceded and two days before Abraham Lincoln's inauguration, Sen. James R. Doolittle of Wisconsin proposed a constitutional amendment that said, "No State or any part thereof, heretofore admitted or hereafter admitted into the Union, shall have the power to withdraw from the jurisdiction of the United States."

Several months earlier, Reps. Daniel E. Sickles of New York, Thomas B. Florence of Pennsylvania and Otis S. Ferry of Connecticut proposed a constitutional amendment to prohibit secession. Here's my no-brainer question: Would there have been any point to offering these amendments if secession were already unconstitutional?"
Parting Company by Walter E. Williams

Lincoln said that the soldiers sacrificed their lives "to the cause of self-determination – that government of the people, by the people, for the people should not perish from the earth." Mencken says: "It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of people to govern themselves."

 

[Disir]

For implies that it will be done for you.

It won't be pandered to. The republicans got what they wanted. But go look at post number 14.

OK, I'll agree, the MSM, Fox, Clear Channel, etc. outlets owned by the corporate globalists and the Republican establishment have clearly controlled how many faux conservatives think, I'll give you that.

However, if you look at how many folks truly understand that the national interests of the American people, whether they have a progressive leaning and are interested in civil rights, civil liberties, and economic opportunity, and clearly AREN'T globalists, or whether they have a libertarian leaning and are interested in not having the federal government protect certain industries to the detriment of others, or by having the Federal Reserve screw the economy over, I would say that the Freedom movement cuts across all political ideologies.

The Occupy movement started during this administration, though they were unaware that their true enemy is the Federal Reserve. With out the FED's onerous policies, the concentration of wealth, or the devaluation of the dollar which made minimum wage practically useless, or the sky rocketing cost of education and healthcare ALL would not have been such huge issues. These were all issues because of big government and the banking cartels involvement in the economic sectors where it shouldn't have been. The globalist corporate media has misinformed the far left.

Likewise, the Tea Party movement has been hijacked by the globalist right. Their original issue was fiscal responsibility. The globalists don't want that. They want to DESTROY the economy of the US so they can usher in their one world currency and their integrated global economic regime. So they infused the movement with social issues via FOX and clear channel. This destroyed the focus and power of the Tea Party movement.

What would the political elites do if both the Occupy and the Tea Party ever were to realize that the core issue that they truly and deeply both cared about the most, which is getting rid of global interference in national American politics and saving the state of our own union were the most important issue?

Well, don't look for it, the corruption is endemic, the elections are controlled by having the candidates chosen for the electorate, and by having the media run by global corporations.

It doesn't fool those who want local government though. The Occupy movement won't die. And don't look for the Tea Party movement to die.

Beware of the day when they realize they have a common enemy though. . . . . Then you will see the Globalists retreat or the secessionist movement will go from a whisper to a clamor.

Oh, just out of curiousity..........what makes you think that the tea party and Occupy- which has been dust for several years now-have anything in common?

They both are rooted in the same complaint, the elites corrupt taxation policy.

At the heart of it, is the income tax of the common man. That is the great swindle. The common man trades his labor for income, there is NO GAIN there, none. The big lie is that the income tax is supposed to only be a tax on INCOME. If you are trading your labor for money, than you don't really HAVE an income, you are trading your labor for money, there is no income, there is only an equal value trade. That money represents a persons labor. The INCOME TAX IS A TAX ON LABOR. So in effect, people are working for the banks. Birth certificates are receipts of sale for slavery to the bankers.

Yet the international banking cartel, via the federal government, STEALS MONEY (which represents the labor) from the common man. It is like stealing a persons labor. When the politicians just GIVE it to corrupt bankers, "to big to fails," their political allies that donate to their campaigns, or any of the other favorite industries, to illegal aliens, to welfare abusers, or pork projects, THEN what is the incentive for people, whether they see themselves as Tea Partiers, or Occupiers, to work, when they know they are just slaves? Eventually there is none. Things become hopeless and eventually, they see secession as the only viable option. And we here that old refrain repeated once again, because the people are NEVER given a real choice, just puppet candidate to choose from. Once again we hear, "NO TAXATION WITH OUT REPRESENTATION." This is what we now have. Does anyone believe that D.C. represents them?

This is no different than what slave owners did to the black man before the civil war. The original Constitution prohibited this sort of abuse. Why should the average citizen tolerate this theft?

Stop.

There is nothing in common.

You are REALLY obtuse. There is just no getting through to you, is there?

This is your base. Count the number of times liberal drools out of their mouth. Check what they say against what is in the constitution.

Vigilante US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

koshergrl US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Stephanie US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

PoliticalChic US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Tell me how many times they lie through their teeth.

 

[mdk]

Hmmmmmmmmm..............yes, beating down the doors to get to that 100 degrees by 9AM during the summer.

I'm 67 and run 2 miles in the summer heat every morning...and out of the shade you can add 20 degrees.....we love it....if it didn't get hot in the summer we'd be another Los Angeles.

No mosquitos, no tornados, sunny and bright....and if you want to escape the Phoenix heat, it's 90 minutes to the cool air and trout streams of the White Mountains.

Arizona is a beautiful state. I try and visit every other year. When the time comes; many years from now, I would like to retire to Arizona in fact. I'll always be a Pittsburgher at heart though. lol

Cool. I'd like to try an experiment with people that move there.

OK, I'll agree, the MSM, Fox, Clear Channel, etc. outlets owned by the corporate globalists and the Republican establishment have clearly controlled how many faux conservatives think, I'll give you that.

However, if you look at how many folks truly understand that the national interests of the American people, whether they have a progressive leaning and are interested in civil rights, civil liberties, and economic opportunity, and clearly AREN'T globalists, or whether they have a libertarian leaning and are interested in not having the federal government protect certain industries to the detriment of others, or by having the Federal Reserve screw the economy over, I would say that the Freedom movement cuts across all political ideologies.

The Occupy movement started during this administration, though they were unaware that their true enemy is the Federal Reserve. With out the FED's onerous policies, the concentration of wealth, or the devaluation of the dollar which made minimum wage practically useless, or the sky rocketing cost of education and healthcare ALL would not have been such huge issues. These were all issues because of big government and the banking cartels involvement in the economic sectors where it shouldn't have been. The globalist corporate media has misinformed the far left.

Likewise, the Tea Party movement has been hijacked by the globalist right. Their original issue was fiscal responsibility. The globalists don't want that. They want to DESTROY the economy of the US so they can usher in their one world currency and their integrated global economic regime. So they infused the movement with social issues via FOX and clear channel. This destroyed the focus and power of the Tea Party movement.

What would the political elites do if both the Occupy and the Tea Party ever were to realize that the core issue that they truly and deeply both cared about the most, which is getting rid of global interference in national American politics and saving the state of our own union were the most important issue?

Well, don't look for it, the corruption is endemic, the elections are controlled by having the candidates chosen for the electorate, and by having the media run by global corporations.

It doesn't fool those who want local government though. The Occupy movement won't die. And don't look for the Tea Party movement to die.

Beware of the day when they realize they have a common enemy though. . . . . Then you will see the Globalists retreat or the secessionist movement will go from a whisper to a clamor.

Oh, just out of curiousity..........what makes you think that the tea party and Occupy- which has been dust for several years now-have anything in common?

They both are rooted in the same complaint, the elites corrupt taxation policy.

At the heart of it, is the income tax of the common man. That is the great swindle. The common man trades his labor for income, there is NO GAIN there, none. The big lie is that the income tax is supposed to only be a tax on INCOME. If you are trading your labor for money, than you don't really HAVE an income, you are trading your labor for money, there is no income, there is only an equal value trade. That money represents a persons labor. The INCOME TAX IS A TAX ON LABOR. So in effect, people are working for the banks. Birth certificates are receipts of sale for slavery to the bankers.

Yet the international banking cartel, via the federal government, STEALS MONEY (which represents the labor) from the common man. It is like stealing a persons labor. When the politicians just GIVE it to corrupt bankers, "to big to fails," their political allies that donate to their campaigns, or any of the other favorite industries, to illegal aliens, to welfare abusers, or pork projects, THEN what is the incentive for people, whether they see themselves as Tea Partiers, or Occupiers, to work, when they know they are just slaves? Eventually there is none. Things become hopeless and eventually, they see secession as the only viable option. And we here that old refrain repeated once again, because the people are NEVER given a real choice, just puppet candidate to choose from. Once again we hear, "NO TAXATION WITH OUT REPRESENTATION." This is what we now have. Does anyone believe that D.C. represents them?

This is no different than what slave owners did to the black man before the civil war. The original Constitution prohibited this sort of abuse. Why should the average citizen tolerate this theft?

Stop.

There is nothing in common.

What sort of experiment?

I want to know if you become a hard core western/frontier aficionado.

I doubt that will be the case. Phoenix is more up my alley. I grew up in the country and I am more of a city guy now.

 

[Disir]

I'm 67 and run 2 miles in the summer heat every morning...and out of the shade you can add 20 degrees.....we love it....if it didn't get hot in the summer we'd be another Los Angeles.

No mosquitos, no tornados, sunny and bright....and if you want to escape the Phoenix heat, it's 90 minutes to the cool air and trout streams of the White Mountains.

Arizona is a beautiful state. I try and visit every other year. When the time comes; many years from now, I would like to retire to Arizona in fact. I'll always be a Pittsburgher at heart though. lol

Cool. I'd like to try an experiment with people that move there.

Oh, just out of curiousity..........what makes you think that the tea party and Occupy- which has been dust for several years now-have anything in common?

They both are rooted in the same complaint, the elites corrupt taxation policy.

At the heart of it, is the income tax of the common man. That is the great swindle. The common man trades his labor for income, there is NO GAIN there, none. The big lie is that the income tax is supposed to only be a tax on INCOME. If you are trading your labor for money, than you don't really HAVE an income, you are trading your labor for money, there is no income, there is only an equal value trade. That money represents a persons labor. The INCOME TAX IS A TAX ON LABOR. So in effect, people are working for the banks. Birth certificates are receipts of sale for slavery to the bankers.

Yet the international banking cartel, via the federal government, STEALS MONEY (which represents the labor) from the common man. It is like stealing a persons labor. When the politicians just GIVE it to corrupt bankers, "to big to fails," their political allies that donate to their campaigns, or any of the other favorite industries, to illegal aliens, to welfare abusers, or pork projects, THEN what is the incentive for people, whether they see themselves as Tea Partiers, or Occupiers, to work, when they know they are just slaves? Eventually there is none. Things become hopeless and eventually, they see secession as the only viable option. And we here that old refrain repeated once again, because the people are NEVER given a real choice, just puppet candidate to choose from. Once again we hear, "NO TAXATION WITH OUT REPRESENTATION." This is what we now have. Does anyone believe that D.C. represents them?

This is no different than what slave owners did to the black man before the civil war. The original Constitution prohibited this sort of abuse. Why should the average citizen tolerate this theft?

Stop.

There is nothing in common.

What sort of experiment?

I want to know if you become a hard core western/frontier aficionado.

I doubt that will be the case. Phoenix is more up my alley. I grew up in the country and I am more of a city guy now.

Hmmmmmmm.......ok.

 

[MisterBeale]

OK, I'll agree, the MSM, Fox, Clear Channel, etc. outlets owned by the corporate globalists and the Republican establishment have clearly controlled how many faux conservatives think, I'll give you that.

However, if you look at how many folks truly understand that the national interests of the American people, whether they have a progressive leaning and are interested in civil rights, civil liberties, and economic opportunity, and clearly AREN'T globalists, or whether they have a libertarian leaning and are interested in not having the federal government protect certain industries to the detriment of others, or by having the Federal Reserve screw the economy over, I would say that the Freedom movement cuts across all political ideologies.

The Occupy movement started during this administration, though they were unaware that their true enemy is the Federal Reserve. With out the FED's onerous policies, the concentration of wealth, or the devaluation of the dollar which made minimum wage practically useless, or the sky rocketing cost of education and healthcare ALL would not have been such huge issues. These were all issues because of big government and the banking cartels involvement in the economic sectors where it shouldn't have been. The globalist corporate media has misinformed the far left.

Likewise, the Tea Party movement has been hijacked by the globalist right. Their original issue was fiscal responsibility. The globalists don't want that. They want to DESTROY the economy of the US so they can usher in their one world currency and their integrated global economic regime. So they infused the movement with social issues via FOX and clear channel. This destroyed the focus and power of the Tea Party movement.

What would the political elites do if both the Occupy and the Tea Party ever were to realize that the core issue that they truly and deeply both cared about the most, which is getting rid of global interference in national American politics and saving the state of our own union were the most important issue?

Well, don't look for it, the corruption is endemic, the elections are controlled by having the candidates chosen for the electorate, and by having the media run by global corporations.

It doesn't fool those who want local government though. The Occupy movement won't die. And don't look for the Tea Party movement to die.

Beware of the day when they realize they have a common enemy though. . . . . Then you will see the Globalists retreat or the secessionist movement will go from a whisper to a clamor.

Oh, just out of curiousity..........what makes you think that the tea party and Occupy- which has been dust for several years now-have anything in common?

They both are rooted in the same complaint, the elites corrupt taxation policy.

At the heart of it, is the income tax of the common man. That is the great swindle. The common man trades his labor for income, there is NO GAIN there, none. The big lie is that the income tax is supposed to only be a tax on INCOME. If you are trading your labor for money, than you don't really HAVE an income, you are trading your labor for money, there is no income, there is only an equal value trade. That money represents a persons labor. The INCOME TAX IS A TAX ON LABOR. So in effect, people are working for the banks. Birth certificates are receipts of sale for slavery to the bankers.

Yet the international banking cartel, via the federal government, STEALS MONEY (which represents the labor) from the common man. It is like stealing a persons labor. When the politicians just GIVE it to corrupt bankers, "to big to fails," their political allies that donate to their campaigns, or any of the other favorite industries, to illegal aliens, to welfare abusers, or pork projects, THEN what is the incentive for people, whether they see themselves as Tea Partiers, or Occupiers, to work, when they know they are just slaves? Eventually there is none. Things become hopeless and eventually, they see secession as the only viable option. And we here that old refrain repeated once again, because the people are NEVER given a real choice, just puppet candidate to choose from. Once again we hear, "NO TAXATION WITH OUT REPRESENTATION." This is what we now have. Does anyone believe that D.C. represents them?

This is no different than what slave owners did to the black man before the civil war. The original Constitution prohibited this sort of abuse. Why should the average citizen tolerate this theft?

Stop.

There is nothing in common.

You are REALLY obtuse. There is just no getting through to you, is there?

This is your base. Count the number of times liberal drools out of their mouth. Check what they say against what is in the constitution.

Vigilante US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

koshergrl US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Stephanie US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

PoliticalChic US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Tell me how many times they lie through their teeth.

Oh no, I have previously agreed with you, you are right. The partisanship knows no bounds. I am sure they actually believe there will be real change. The wise among us know there won't be.

It is a race awaken and unite the nation against a common foe, I will admit to you. All of the members believe more of what they see on TV and what they read on their corporate funded favorite globalist sites. They have a "my team is best" attitude, more than, WE ARE ALL ONE TEAM.

The elites in Russia, China, the UK, Germany, Saudi Arabia, and Israel all have more in common with each other, than do the US elites have with the average American. THAT is the reason things get worse every year. The folks in DC represent people that have nothing to do with what the average American desires, people on USMB, whether they are on the left, or on the right, just don't get that.



Though, to be sure, YOU don't help the situation either. I can feel the partisan loathing in your posts. Have you ever agreed with any of the posters you mentioned? Or thanked them for their contributions? I have, with all of them. Remember, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

OTH, I have vehemently called them out on their point of view when they are playing into the hands of the globalists and the Statists, while trying to remain polite.

Do you actually imagine they are purposely trying to deceive? REALLY? If you do, you are part of the problem.


I sense you voted for Obama. It wouldn't surprise me one bit. It wouldn't surprise me to learn you went out and voted for your favorite progressive candidate. I notice you didn't point out any Occupy peeps to me. And they exist on this board. Oh, they may not call themselves that anymore, but when the Republican President is elected two years from now (god help us and the innocent children in the ME,) Occupy will reassert itself, and you know who they are as well as I do. . .

 

[Unkotare]

We in Arizona can do quite well without Unca Shithead overrunning us with human livestock. Some of us have plans in place to join with Texas for a new federation independent of the new england turd mongers. Texas gives us port facilities and a trading partner...our citrus and copper for their oil and air bases. We have everything else we need....cattle, cotton, timber, and climate the yankees crave. Most of Arizona is mountains we can use for guerilla tactics if the Feds try to fuck with us. And of course we have mehico on our side...they fucking HATE having Arizona be part of the USA. Oh, and as for California to our west? They'll be treated like all the rest....you'll need a passport and a thousand Arizona dollars (bought at the border stations) to enter our paradise....interlopers will be drag-hanged through cholla.

Your dementia's kicking in again, grandpuss.

 

[Rotagilla]

I wonder if the heated calls for independence will suddenly be muted now.

This word "heated" I think you are using poorly. A tiny tiny group with really loud voices and nothing better to do does not some independence movement make.

that's what the british said in 1776.
all it took was 3% of the people willing to fight to overthrow the best army in the world at the time.

3%

 

[Rotagilla]

I wonder if the heated calls for independence will suddenly be muted now.

Such ignorant 'calls' for 'secession' should never had started in the first place, given the fact 'secession' is un-Constitutional.

No it isn't.

 

[SwimExpert]

Bullshit. Quote the part of the Constitution or the Supreme Court Decision that makes it so.

Well, there's Texas v White.

The United States is a perpetual Union. It has been so since its inception.

 

[BullKurtz]

Give that old cantankerous fart a break...he's too far gone with the Alzheimer to remember where he is from minute to minute...

Uh huh...and yet I continue to slap you and your sock Asslips like.....mosquitoes (although not around Phoenix)....Ya know for being so supposedly "diverse" and "inclusive" you Rats sure are quick at showing your true colors during a fight...in this case becoming AGEISTS

to try to silence me.....good luck with that, Jody.

 

[Rotagilla]

When people decide to secede and exercise their right of self determination, they don't ask the government for permission or research scotus decisions.

When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.



Even lincoln thought so...until he decided later to invade the south for exercising their legal rights to withdraw.
Situational ethics.


Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable,— most sacred right—a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government, may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so much of the teritory as they inhabit.
More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority, intermingled with, or near about them, who may oppose their movement. Such minority, was precisely the case, of the tories of our own revolution. It is a quality of revolutions not to go by old lines, or old laws; but to break up both, and make new ones.

A. Lincoln
in Congress 1848

 

[BullKurtz]

Consider our situation in Arizona. The feds have stopped our every effort to enforce OUR BORDER with Mehico....they come across without enough water and we have to go out and save them. They trample delicate terrain and strew their litter across our beautiful desert vistas. They steal from the ranches they cross, often breaking in to rob and rape. They mule in their narcotics with the human livestock and yet we're told to look the other way...even let them VOTE after their kids are in our schools and they've taken over whole industries that used to employ thousands of Americans. And to top it off, we are expected to arrest and warehouse the criminals we're allowed to...and have never been reimbursed. The federal government owes Arizona almost $800,000,000 and won't pay us a dime of it while they encourage their voters to BOYCOTT our tourism industry. You bet we have a case for secession....and don't think it can't happen.

 

[SwimExpert]

When people decide to secede and exercise their right of self determination, they don't ask the government for permission or research scotus decisions.

So cry me a river. You asked for constitutional and supreme court references. I gave them to you. Just because someone doesn't want to seek legal avenues does not make their actions legally valid. States cannot exit the Union except through consent, or through revolution. The confederacy chose to give revolution a try. Didn't work.

 

[SwimExpert]

Consider our situation in Arizona. The feds have stopped our every effort to enforce OUR BORDER with Mehico....they come across without enough water and we have to go out and save them. They trample delicate terrain and strew their litter across our beautiful desert vistas. They steal from the ranches they cross, often breaking in to rob and rape. They mule in their narcotics with the human livestock and yet we're told to look the other way...even let them VOTE after their kids are in our schools and they've taken over whole industries that used to employ thousands of Americans. And to top it off, we are expected to arrest and warehouse the criminals we're allowed to...and have never been reimbursed. The federal government owes Arizona almost $800,000,000 and won't pay us a dime of it while they encourage their voters to BOYCOTT our tourism industry. You bet we have a case for secession....and don't think it can't happen.

Listen guy, if you you and your fellow Arizonians want to secede, I support that completely, as long as the Arizona immediately pays to the federal government a portion of the national debt equal to the ratio of Arizona's population to the total US population. And sure, it can happen. You just need to earn the consent of the states, or wage a revolution.

 

[Siete]

Consider our situation in Arizona. The feds have stopped our every effort to enforce OUR BORDER with Mehico....they come across without enough water and we have to go out and save them. They trample delicate terrain and strew their litter across our beautiful desert vistas. They steal from the ranches they cross, often breaking in to rob and rape. They mule in their narcotics with the human livestock and yet we're told to look the other way...even let them VOTE after their kids are in our schools and they've taken over whole industries that used to employ thousands of Americans. And to top it off, we are expected to arrest and warehouse the criminals we're allowed to...and have never been reimbursed. The federal government owes Arizona almost $800,000,000 and won't pay us a dime of it while they encourage their voters to BOYCOTT our tourism industry. You bet we have a case for secession....and don't think it can't happen.

consider you claim Arizona has no mosquitos, now consider your opinion about everything ..

go to Texas and watch your oil well make some brand new oil ...


LMAO

 

[Rotagilla]

When people decide to secede and exercise their right of self determination, they don't ask the government for permission or research scotus decisions.

So cry me a river. You asked for constitutional and supreme court references. I gave them to you. Just because someone doesn't want to seek legal avenues does not make their actions legally valid. States cannot exit the Union except through consent, or through revolution. The confederacy chose to give revolution a try. Didn't work.

secession is not unconstitutional. It isn't mentioned anywhere. There is no "legal avenue" to seek, counselor.

The south tried to peacefully withdraw.
Lincoln sent troops to invade the CSA, a sovereign nation, which is an unprovoked act of aggression.

 

[BullKurtz]

consider you claim Arizona has no mosquitos, now consider your opinion about everything ..

go to Texas and watch your oil well make some brand new oil ...


LMAO

Where did I say ARIZONA didn't have mosquitoes? For a lying sack of shit, you really SUCK at it. And tell me what you know about abiotic refiling, lift cost, gas on the well heads, oil leases, and mineral rights in Texas. C'mon pissant.....let's hear it.

 

[BullKurtz]

Listen guy, if you you and your fellow Arizonians want to secede, I support that completely, as long as the Arizona immediately pays to the federal government a portion of the national debt equal to the ratio of Arizona's population to the total US population. And sure, it can happen. You just need to earn the consent of the states, or wage a revolution.

OUR SHARE OF THE NATIONAL DEBT? Listen, tell your government to cede us OUR land back to private ownership, pay us what you owe us to feed and warehouse YOUR illegals, FINISH YOUR FENCE BETWEEN US AND MEHICO, and guarantee our CAP water from the Colorado River and we can talk about paying a share of YOUR DEBT, not ours. I doubt that conversation would get very far in the halls of CONgress. And you might want to figure in your cost in blood and treasure to keep us and Texas together in your bankrupt and corrupt union because that's a price you can't afford and wouldn't DARE try.

 

[SwimExpert]

When people decide to secede and exercise their right of self determination, they don't ask the government for permission or research scotus decisions.

So cry me a river. You asked for constitutional and supreme court references. I gave them to you. Just because someone doesn't want to seek legal avenues does not make their actions legally valid. States cannot exit the Union except through consent, or through revolution. The confederacy chose to give revolution a try. Didn't work.

secession is not unconstitutional. It isn't mentioned anywhere. There is no "legal avenue" to seek, counselor.

The south tried to peacefully withdraw.
Lincoln sent troops to invade the CSA, a sovereign nation, which is an unprovoked act of aggression.

So now you're just blatantly ignoring the evidence you asked for and received, and history as well. Guy, you need to do us Republicans a favor and shut the fuck up. You're the Sandra Fluke of the GOP and you soil us all with your rabble.

 

[Siete]

consider you claim Arizona has no mosquitos, now consider your opinion about everything ..

go to Texas and watch your oil well make some brand new oil ...


LMAO

Where did I say ARIZONA didn't have mosquitoes? For a lying sack of shit, you really SUCK at it. And tell me what you know about abiotic refiling, lift cost, gas on the well heads, oil leases, and mineral rights in Texas. C'mon pissant.....let's hear it.

see? you don't even remember what you said YESTERDAY. Your credibility is as worthless as one of your USED Depends .. go take a nap