Second Amendment advocates would this change your mind?

[2aguy]

At least I don't rest on simplistic arguments.



Is that why it has been high regardless of who is charge of the US government?



LOL.

It was under Clinton that the 3 strikes thing went into effect. Unless you forgot.

Moron....

Over 27 years, from 1993 to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Starting in 2015, the democrat party decided to attack the police, and to ramp up releasing violent criminals no matter how many times they have been arrested for gun crimes...

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

1) the democrat party keeps releasing violent gun offenders...they have created a revolving door for criminals who use guns, and will release even the most serious gun offenders over and over again....why? Probably because they realise that normal people don't use their guns for crime, so if they want to push gun control, they need criminals to shoot people.....so they keep releasing them....

2) The democrat party keeps attacking the police.....driving the officers into not doing pro-active policing, cutting detective forces so that murders go unsolved..........

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Moron....

Is this part of your complaint about Leftists always calling you names? Maybe if YOU didn't call others names, you wouldn't have people call you names.

Perhaps you WANT people to call you "Hypocrite"?

2) The democrat party keeps attacking the police

Actually what they do attack are those police who decide that murdering a suspect on the street in broad daylight for the horrific offense of maybe passing a counterfiet $20 or selling loose cigarettes is proper policing.

If you think that is "good policing" then you and I have a very different view of the role of the police.

.....driving the officers into not doing pro-active policing, cutting detective forces so that murders go unsolved..........

And by "pro-active" policing I guess you mean "Stop and Frisk"? A notoriously racist policy which drove more and more black people to distrust police?

Or do you mean the policy of stopping all people who are "Driving While Black"?

Or perhaps you mean no-knock warrants that wind up killing sleeping people in other rooms?

Or the pro-active "murder the suspect on the street" approach?

And you wonder why minorities are not happy with Officer Friendly.

 

[daveman]

Can I ask why you are such an unrelenting dick? I'm honestly curious. You just seem to be a dick. Is that how you are IRL?

Just fuck off.

Now YOU sound angry. And more than a little confused. You want me to answer a question, and you want me to fuck off.

Pick one.

 

[daveman]

So long as you folks take that view there can be nothing done for the record breaking levels of gun violence in our society.

If you were to actually talk about the opposition in REALISTIC and RATIONAL ways maybe something could be worked out.

The problem is, when the sides get so polarized and the body count keeps rising it ultimately endangers YOUR rights. Enough Americans get fed up with the gun craziness and YOU WILL lose something.

If you actually try talking to the opposing side instead of making up stupid lies about them you might find that many of us are OK with guns being around. Just a few more controls on them.



Oh please.

It's always "just a few more common sense controls". And when criminals don't start obeying the law, you want "just a few more common sense controls".

It won't stop until you've got law-abiding people disarmed.

 

[daveman]

I'm genuinely curious about this particular fantasy. Let's say the US government went off the rails and we wound up with a crude fascist dictator in charge. And he, being Commander in Chief marshalled the US military to take your guns from you...exactly how long do you think you'd be able to hold out?

Ruby Ridge-long? Or Waco-long?



It would be tough to have power over a nation in which a large chunk of people live active fantasy lives based on watching one too many John Wayne movies.

With a few exceptions, the US Military is not going to take the side of leftists. You seem to think that Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen, and Coastguardsmen will fire on their fellow citizens -- their own friends and family. That's your particular fantasy, and it's ludicrous. They'd rather shoot the officers who give them those orders.

 

[daveman]

Facile argument lacking any rational support.

How many Democrats are calling for more gun control versus how many Republicans?

You don't want serious discussion. Stop pretending you do.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

With a few exceptions, the US Military is not going to take the side of leftists.

I didn't realize that the military was in the habit of simply ignoring orders from the Commander in Chief.

Do tell! Sounds like a pretty loosey-goosey undisciplined group.

You seem to think that Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen, and Coastguardsmen will fire on their fellow citizens

And the original idea was that the government was corrupt so individuals need to arm themselves. Who do you think the individuals are going to fight in this corrupt government? Do they only think they will have to gun down senators and representative?

-- their own friends and family. That's your particular fantasy, and it's ludicrous. They'd rather shoot the officers who give them those orders.

Because that's how it's ALWAYS happened when dictators take over and corrupt the government. Oh, wait, no, it almost NEVER happens that way.

Good luck with your confused fever dreams.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

You don't want serious discussion. Stop pretending you do.

You guys want a serious discussion? Huh. I guess after being called a "nazi" and "shithead" and "moron" so many times here I simply assumed you guys just wanted to vent your enormous spleen based on your imaginary fears.

LOL

 

[daveman]

The guys who stormed the capital to overturn the election they actually believed was stolen could only hold out for one afternoon.

LOL.

They weren't armed.

You think you can "hold out" against the US Military? LOL. Not very long before you'd be whining for a ceasefire so that beer and nacho chips could be shipped in

The US Military isn't going to fight your battles for you. You're going to have to do it yourself. You feel up to it?

First: you likely DON'T have better weapons since the Afghanis and Taliban had all the left over Soviet weapons and half of the US lost weapons. Yeah, the Americans are far more educated but that won't help for long-term. As for "better trained", well, let's see, the Gravy Seals tend to THINK they are training, but they aren't living in the high desert of Afghanistan 24/7/365. They really don't know what training is compared to people who have literally spent their entire lives shooting and killing people in realtime.

They know what training is compared to American leftists, who think whining on the internet is an effective weapon.

 

[daveman]

I didn't realize that the military was in the habit of simply ignoring orders from the Commander in Chief.

Do tell! Sounds like a pretty loosey-goosey undisciplined group.



And the original idea was that the government was corrupt so individuals need to arm themselves. Who do you think the individuals are going to fight in this corrupt government? Do they only think they will have to gun down senators and representative?



Because that's how it's ALWAYS happened when dictators take over and corrupt the government. Oh, wait, no, it almost NEVER happens that way.

Good luck with your confused fever dreams.

Tell me you've never served in uniform without saying you've never served in uniform.

 

[daveman]

You guys want a serious discussion? Huh. I guess after being called a "nazi" and "shithead" and "moron" so many times here I simply assumed you guys just wanted to vent your enormous spleen based on your imaginary fears.

LOL

Dude. It's words on a screen. Grow up.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

It's always "just a few more common sense controls". And when criminals don't start obeying the law, you want "just a few more common sense controls".

It won't stop until you've got law-abiding people disarmed.

OK...so how do YOU, in your immense knowledge, think we need to handle the off-the-charts levels of gun homicides in this country?

We lead the developed first world (often by orders of magnitude) in per capita gun homicides.

What do you propose we do?

(To save you some time I'm going to list the things we already do):

1. We have established the school-to-prison pipeline leading to record levels of incarceration, ESPECIALLY of black men (waaaay beyond their proportion in regular society)

2. We lead the world in terms of prison population (we can't even keep up with the number of prisoners we keep throwing in jail)

So what else do we need to do?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Tell me you've never served in uniform without saying you've never served in uniform.

If I had served in uniform you think I would have disobeyed orders? Is that what you think?

Interesting. I honestly never knew that disobeying orders from a superior officer was so common!

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

OK...so how do YOU, in your immense knowledge, think we need to handle the off-the-charts levels of gun homicides in this country?

We lead the developed first world (often by orders of magnitude) in per capita gun homicides.

What do you propose we do?

(To save you some time I'm going to list the things we already do):

1. We have established the school-to-prison pipeline leading to record levels of incarceration, ESPECIALLY of black men (waaaay beyond their proportion in regular society)

2. We lead the world in terms of prison population (we can't even keep up with the number of prisoners we keep throwing in jail)

So what else do we need to do?

False premise our murder rates are not off the charts.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Dude. It's words on a screen. Grow up.

Oh, so you don't know what you're typing when you write. Got it.

And how do you propose to have a "serious discussion" calling people names?

Methinks you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

False premise our murder rates are not off the charts.

You need to read what I actually wrote. Our gun homicide rates are many times higher than any other developed first world nation.

Don't believe me?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Our gun homicide rates are many times higher than any other developed first world nation.

True.

But conservatives believe – incorrectly – that such facts will be used to ‘justify’ more firearm regulatory measures, which is both false and a lie.

Instead, conservatives ignore the facts and propagate lies about guns being ‘banned’ and ‘confiscated.’

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Still not off the charts. 11000 a year out of 330 million is small indeed.

 

[daveman]

OK...so how do YOU, in your immense knowledge, think we need to handle the off-the-charts levels of gun homicides in this country?

We lead the developed first world (often by orders of magnitude) in per capita gun homicides.

What do you propose we do?

(To save you some time I'm going to list the things we already do):

1. We have established the school-to-prison pipeline leading to record levels of incarceration, ESPECIALLY of black men (waaaay beyond their proportion in regular society)

2. We lead the world in terms of prison population (we can't even keep up with the number of prisoners we keep throwing in jail)

So what else do we need to do?

We need to stop criminalizing self-defense with firearms. Enact Constitutional open- and concealed-carry throughout all the States.

Crime will go down when the criminals realize their poor choices may cost them their lives.

 

[daveman]

If I had served in uniform you think I would have disobeyed orders? Is that what you think?

Interesting. I honestly never knew that disobeying orders from a superior officer was so common!

Thanks for the heads up.

Oh, no, I can quite believe you'd be happy to fire on your fellow Americans if you were told to.