Zone1 Serious Question About Abortion

[Red Front]

I thought more about your comment and I think you believe my post stated that the number one reason was because they “couldn’t afford it” but that was not the result of that survey. The top reason was they were “not ready for a baby” and even parents who plan in advance will say they didn’t have everything “ready” as in baby proofing the house etc. well after the baby has been delivered.

There is a subservient motive that has gone on for many decades with specific individuals and groups in power to continue to use abortion as a culling for population control via eugenics to remove undesirables from society. This is the question that pro aborts need to be asked at all rallies directly what they know about the history of eugenics. It would be most telling to see their expressions when asked this question as most (definitely well over 50%) would be clueless parrots.

Stop defunding social programs and infrastructure that assist low-income families and single mothers to raise their children or more women will continue opting to abort their pregnancies. Your claim that women ending their pregnancies is the equivalent of "culling" or killing human beings is a disingenuous one because it implies that an embryo or unformed, unviable fetus is an actual human person with the same rights as the woman who conceived it. What authority are you appealing to for your opinion? Does that seem rational to you? If you want to reduce the abortion rate, reduce scarcity and more women will choose to become mothers. To do otherwise creates more unnecessary pain and suffering, even death.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

You're a fucking idiot if you equate

I equate human beings with human beings because I am not a bigot and the same thing is equatable with the same thing by definition.

You're retarded. Even the bible doesn't do that

Your bigotry is disgusting - and your citations of the Bible mean nothing to an atheist. I just don’t care.

Quote me from the Simarillion next - Eru Illvatar might have something to say about your orc-like lust for death.

Also do note where you are while projecting such insults at others.

Oopsie doopsie.

Fetuses are not equal to the women that conceive them, with respect to their value.

To bigots maybe. Not to rational people who believe in human rights and equality.

Again I could not give less of a shit about your bastardization of a religion - an interpretation that would damn said religion and god as irredeemably evil - as I am not a follower and others who are religious and good people (that leaves out you pro-aborts) who care can do that.

You're claiming women should have the legal and moral obligation of

Refraining from murder.

Well NO, how about that?

Compelling.

How about yes, though?

Because other people do not agree with your absolute simping misandry, you utter female supremacist who thinks that a uterus is somehow a license to kill the innocent in cold blood?

There is never a good excuse to initiate violence on innocent human beings. Not that any radical authoritarian leftist like yourself would ever understand that, seeing as people like you are commonly referred to “Tankies” for obvious reasons.

The mother should decide, not you or me

No I’m quite comfortable condemning the murder of innocent human beings. I don’t know what your damage is that you can’t do that, but oh well.

especially when "Christians" like you

Try reading

defunding government programs

Well sure, I already mentioned that these programs are morally contemptible and illegal and condemned you for supporting the awful things on every possible grounds.

The social programs you support are vile. Your reported life’s work is to do evil and hurt and steal from the people. It’s deplorable and you should be ashamed of yourself.

You call violations of human rights just and appropriate. Your view is sick and warped.

I think you are somehow the embodiment or synthesis of every possible wrong, evil, or contemptible political or ethical view. You supporting it means it must be utterly vile and indefensible. So you know, typical communist.

 

[Red Front]

I equate human beings with human beings because I am not a bigot and the same thing is equatable with the same thing by definition.



Your bigotry is disgusting - and your citations of the Bible mean nothing to an atheist. I just don’t care. Quote me from the Simarillion next - Eru Illvatar might have something to say about your orc-like lust for death.

Also do note where you are while projecting such insults at others.

Uh-oh.





To bigots maybe. Not to rational people who believe in human rights and equality.

Again I could not give less of a shit about your bastardization of a religion - an interpretation that would damn said religion and god as irredeemably evil - as I am not a follower and others who are religious and good people (that leave out you pro-aborts) who care can do that.


Refraining from murder.


Compelling.

How about yes, though because other people do not agree with your absolute simping misandry, you utter female supremacist who thinks that a uterus is a license to kill the innocent in cold blood?

There is never a good excuse to initiate violence on innocent human beings. Not that any radical authoritarian leftist like yourself would ever understand that, seeing as people like you are commonly referred to “Tankies” for obvious reasons.


No I’m quite comfortable condemning the murder of innocent human beings. I don’t know what your damage is that you can’t do that, but oh well.


Try reading


Well sure, I already mentioned that these programs are morally contemptible and illegal and condemned you for supporting the awful things on every possible grounds.

The social programs you support are vile. Your reported life’s work is to do evil and hurt and steal from the people. It’s deplorable and you should be ashamed of yourself.

You call violations of human rights just and appropriate. Your view is sick and warped.

You're an idiot for equating zygotes, embryos, and unviable fetuses to human persons. They're potential human beings, not actual human beings. Keep trying to convince people that embryos are equal to women, while you continue to defund government programs and infrastructure that help the poor. Good luck there with your stupid ideas.

 

[Curried Goats]

I equate human beings with human beings because I am not a bigot and the same thing is equatable with the same thing by definition.



Your bigotry is disgusting - and your citations of the Bible mean nothing to an atheist. I just don’t care.

Quote me from the Simarillion next - Eru Illvatar might have something to say about your orc-like lust for death.

Also do note where you are while projecting such insults at others.

Oopsie doopsie.





To bigots maybe. Not to rational people who believe in human rights and equality.

Again I could not give less of a shit about your bastardization of a religion - an interpretation that would damn said religion and god as irredeemably evil - as I am not a follower and others who are religious and good people (that leaves out you pro-aborts) who care can do that.


Refraining from murder.


Compelling.

How about yes, though?

Because other people do not agree with your absolute simping misandry, you utter female supremacist who thinks that a uterus is somehow a license to kill the innocent in cold blood?

There is never a good excuse to initiate violence on innocent human beings. Not that any radical authoritarian leftist like yourself would ever understand that, seeing as people like you are commonly referred to “Tankies” for obvious reasons.


No I’m quite comfortable condemning the murder of innocent human beings. I don’t know what your damage is that you can’t do that, but oh well.


Try reading


Well sure, I already mentioned that these programs are morally contemptible and illegal and condemned you for supporting the awful things on every possible grounds.

The social programs you support are vile. Your reported life’s work is to do evil and hurt and steal from the people. It’s deplorable and you should be ashamed of yourself.

You call violations of human rights just and appropriate. Your view is sick and warped.

You seem to be using innocent subjectively here. A fetus is not innocent of gestation inside a woman.

As for equal rights, I think equal rights means we all agree to keep our hands to ourselves. If a homeowner can shoot someone coming through their door uninvited why can't a woman remove an unwanted human being gestating inside of her?

 

[martybegan]

You seem to be using innocent subjectively here. A fetus is not innocent of gestation inside a woman.

As for equal rights, I think equal rights means we all agree to keep our hands to ourselves. If a homeowner can shoot someone coming through their door uninvited why can't a woman remove an unwanted human being gestating inside of her?

Unless it involves rape she invited them in.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

You seem to be using innocent subjectively here.

No it’s objective. Undeniable, unassailable fact.

Try learning what words mean. It might help you converse coherently in English one day. Eventually. If you really do the work.

 

[Curried Goats]

Unless it involves rape she invited them in.

No more than you leaving your front door open being an invitation for all to come inside.

 

[Unkotare]

Keep projecting yourself on me.

I'm not pro-death, you are by your own testimony.

 

[martybegan]

No more than you leaving your front door open being an invitation for all to come inside.

Not the same. The woman and man made a conscious act, a deliberate act.

 

[Curried Goats]

No it’s objective. Undeniable, unassailable fact.

If it were you wouldn't need to hype it up so much.

Try learning what words mean. It might help you converse coherently in English one day. Eventually. If you really do the work.

Trying understanding context.

 

[Red Front]

If the government can force a woman to remain pregnant, even early in her pregnancy then a government can force these conservative assholes to wear a mask in public venues in the middle of a nationwide, deadly pandemic. It can also force you to pay an extra $20+ monthly to fund government programs that help the poor. If you don't like that, too bad. Go live in Antarctica with the penguins or in the forest with the squirrels, because you don't deserve to live in a civilized human society.

 

[Curried Goats]

Not the same. The woman and man made a conscious act, a deliberate act.

To have sex not to pregnancy. Just as you leaving your door open isn't an invitation for robbery.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

You're an idiot for equating zygotes, embryos, and unviable fetuses to human persons. They're potential human beings, not actual human beings. Keep trying to convince people that embryos are equal to women, while you continue to defund government programs and infrastructure that help the poor. Good luck there with your stupid ideas.

Well, bless your black heart and all the bile that bleeds from it in the name of your endless destructive Communist envy. Don’t worry, real communism hasn’t been tried yet, the similarities to absolute oligarchy by party rule over a peasant class aren’t a feature, just a defect… that literally always happens.

But yes, your vile programs should ALL end.

Also, ban abortion, because killing innocent human beings is wrong and a violation of human rights (nothing sociopaths or commies care about obviously), and your irrational bigotry against the unborn is unjustifiable and scientifically invalid.

Peace out.

 

[Unkotare]

You're a fucking idiot if you equate an embryo :

View attachment 716921​

To this:

View attachment 716928​

or this:

View attachment 716929​

You're retarded. Even the bible doesn't do that:

22 “When men strive together and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall[a] be fined, according as the woman’s husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, (Exodus 21:22-24)

The Revised Standard Version translates the Hebrew text as saying 'there is a miscarriage'. This implies that the 'harm' refers only to the woman not the fetus. This is also explicit in the New Jerusalem Bible: "she suffers a miscarriage but no further harm is done". On this interpretation, the death of the fetus merits a 'fine' but further harm to the mother merits 'life for life'. The violent assailant is executed for murder.

DEATH OF FETUS = FINE
DEATH OF WOMAN = EXECUTION

What part of that, don't you understand? Fetuses are not equal to the women that conceive them, with respect to their value. In favor of this interpretation is the witness of Josephus in the first century AD:

" He that kicks a woman with child, so that the woman miscarry, let him pay a fine in money... as having diminished the multitude by the destruction of what was in her womb...but if she die of the stroke, let him also be put to death." (Josephus. Antiquities of the Jews 4.8.33)

The Jewish philosopher Philo, an older contemporary of Josephus, follows this interpretation:

"If the child within her is still unfashioned and unformed, he shall be punished by a fine...But if the child had assumed a distinct shape in all its parts, having received all its proper and distinctive qualities, he shall die." (Philo. On Special Laws. 3.19)

Most ancient rabbis shared the above opinions. Either what was being referred to was the death of the woman, or the death of a fully formed fetus. The fetus is considered an appendage of the woman's body by most Jewish authorities, both ancient and modern. It's not a human being and a member of the community until it is at least halfway out of the birth canal. Some ancient rabbis even went further and didn't recognize the fetus as a human being and living soul until it took its first breath.

You're claiming women should have the legal and moral obligation of allowing a zygote, embryo, or unviable, unformed fetus to become a human being and baby. Well NO, how about that? The mother should decide, not you or me, especially when "Christians" like you are defunding government programs, that help single mothers raise their children. You defund community infrastructure in the name of "cutting taxes", even though those programs are within the budgets of most if not all state governments, (especially when they're receiving funding from the federal government). Even if you holy-rollers and "born again saints" have to pay an extra $20 a month in taxes, so what? Aren't you Evangelicals the disciples of Jesus Christ? Aren't you the "salt of the Earth"? Apparently NOT.

The Republican politicians that you "Christians" elect, often defund school lunch programs for poor children, they defund programs that provide children with school supplies and clothing, and they defund daycare programs for parents that need to work and don't have anyone to care for their babies. These Republican conservatives, defund housing and food programs for single mothers who are struggling financially and need help. They defund healthcare programs for the poor (poverty alone doesn't make one eligible for Medicaid, in many Republican-controlled states) and defund vocational job training for single moms. Do you have the moral high ground to demand women stay pregnant when your Republican politics undermines the ability of single mothers to raise their children? Your morality is warped, you have a very skewed standard of right and wrong.

In the natural course of development, will this:

EVER become this?

Or?

Or?

Or?

 

[martybegan]

To have sex not to pregnancy. Just as you leaving your door open isn't an invitation for robbery.

LOL, from a person who thinks they know science, you have a serious issue with acknowledging causality.

 

[martybegan]

You don't give a shit about killing innocent human beings because you're a stinking imperialist. You reduce human persons to zygotes and embryos, due to your psychopathy and stupidity. Yeah, when technology considerably replaces wage-labor it will create the necessity for communism. So communism is in your future, you should become one now before you're shocked and forced into it. Socialism and its objective, i.e. communism, is inevitable, so you might as well start now.

Your 2nd year economic theory professor would be proud of your ability to regurgitate standard Marxist rhetoric

(edited for foul language)

 

[ClaireH]

Stop defunding social programs and infrastructure that assist low-income families and single mothers to raise their children or more women will continue opting to abort their pregnancies. Your claim that women ending their pregnancies is the equivalent of "culling" or killing human beings is a disingenuous one because it implies that an embryo or unformed, unviable fetus is an actual human person with the same rights as the woman who conceived it. What authority are you appealing to for your opinion? Does that seem rational to you? If you want to reduce the abortion rate, reduce scarcity and more women will choose to become mothers. To do otherwise creates more unnecessary pain and suffering, even death.

It cannot be disputed that there are, and always have been throughout history prior to US founding, individuals with political and financial clout who support the culling of what they consider “inferior individuals ”. Their notion of inferior (which should be of no surprise to well-read members) is based upon ethnicity, poverty, or both.

Even you have argued for the position of resolving/reducing poverty, so your 180° turn is most interesting. First, you claimed that voters (paraphrasing your words: religious zealots, greedy Republicans) are against helping the poor, that these voters have removed benefits of those living in poverty.

Eugenics is a continued purpose of abortion supported financially by various amoral individuals. Board members on Planned Parenthood likely contain more than a few who support eugenics privately. That is the reason they formed in the first place under Sanger, you do realize that yes? You can try to dress it up as something other than what it is but the fact remains that many pro-aborts quietly support this exact reason for abortion. In my opinion, it doesn’t get any more evil than that and I tend to stay away from the words “good and evil”as individual cases are usually subjective, but that’s pure evil.

 

[Curried Goats]

LOL, from a person who thinks they know science, you have a serious issue with acknowledging causality.

Not at all. Pregnancy is a possible outcome of sex that still doesn't mean consent to sex is consent to pregnancy. To go back to my analogy, leaving your doors wide open might cause some passer by to seriously consider robbering your house, but that still wouldn't mean you consented to it.

 

[Curried Goats]

Doesn’t need “hype,” just needs you to learn English. Which, you know. Some bridges are kind of far…

You learn context. You can be innocent in some contexts, and guilty in others. I don't know how you mean innocent, because you've been unwilling, for whatever reason, to provide that context but I was clear. A fetus is not innocent of gestating inside a woman. That's what they do.

 

[martybegan]

Not at all. Pregnancy is a possible outcome of sex that still doesn't mean consent to sex is consent to pregnancy. To go back to my analogy, leaving your doors wide open might cause some passer by to seriously consider robbering your house, but that still wouldn't mean you consented to it.

it's the expected result of sex, depending on the timing, and the whole biological purpose of sex.

Unless it's rape, there is consent from both parties, and unless they are idiots, the possible results are well known.

Unless precautions are taken, and doubling up on birth control methods, such as condom use and oral birth control reduce the chance of accidental pregnancy to virtually zero.