Zone1 Serious Question About Abortion

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

You don't give a shit about killing innocent human beings

Yeah, I do. That’s why I oppose the predations of folks like you who demonstrably don’t give a shit whatsoever about the rights or lives of others.

because you're a stinking imperialist

Oh my god, first I’m a “Christian,” and now the nonaggressionist, non-interventionist is an “imperialist.” This is Clown World. This is peak Clown World. You can’t find bigger shoes. The largest size will have to fit, please wear them.

You reduce human persons to zygotes and embryos, due to your psychopathy and stupidity.

I equate living human beings to living human beings because we are all created equal and I believe in equality, commie. I know commies don’t give a crap about equality or anything else but their own power. It’s obvious in every government you’ve ever made. It’s absolute hell on earth despotism. Your “utopias” are always nightmares.

Yeah, when technology considerably replaces wage-labor it will create the necessity for communism. So communism is in your future, you should become one now before you're shocked and forced into it. Socialism and its objective, i.e. communism, is inevitable, so you might as well start now.

You are inevitable, now, are you, Thanos?

Well then, we, the good people of Earth, we are Iron Man.

Hell, even just the neutral, normal people make your ideas utterly invalid and unworkable. You’ve put a lot of energy into a defunct and stupid ideology. Sorry, pal. Your life has been a waste.

 

[Red Front]

In the natural course of development, will this:
View attachment 716987

EVER become this?
View attachment 716988

Or?
View attachment 716989

Or?
View attachment 716990

Or?
View attachment 716991

You nor I have the right to force women to allow a zygote or embryo to actualize a course of development at their expense. The woman has a certain degree of sovereignty and freedom over her body, and a zygote, embryo or unviable fetus doesn't have the right to force a woman to actualize its course of development into personhood. That should be the woman's choice.

More you just proved my point that a zygote or embryo, even a fetus isn't a baby, it's just a potential that relies on an actual human being to actualize itself. It's an "it", not a "who", hence if the actual human person decides to abort their pregnancy, that's not murder. There was never a human person there to be murdered. If I throw an acorn in the trash bin, did I throw an oak tree in the trash? If an embryo is cut from the actual human being i.e. the woman, was a human being or person killed? No, because the human embryo is not a being or person. So your point is moot.

If you really cared so much about human life, you would be more concerned about the poor and the suffering of actual human beings, not embryos and fetuses. You pretend to be "pro-life" by defending life in other people's wombs yet have very little concern for life outside of the womb.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

You pretend to be "pro-life" by defending life in other people's wombs yet have very little concern for life outside of the womb.

Is it illegal to kill humans who have been born already?

Yes or no?

How illegal is it?

Answer these questions and stop lying.

 

[Curried Goats]

it's the expected result of sex, depending on the timing, and the whole biological purpose of sex.

The biology of human beings allows us to have sex for purposes besides reproduction. That's a biological fact. And robbery is an expected result of you leaving all your windows and doors open, still doesn't mean you've consented to it.

Unless it's rape, there is consent from both parties, and unless they are idiots, the possible results are well known.

If you leave all your windows and doors open you may be an idiot but that also isn't consent.

Unless precautions are taken, and doubling up on birth control methods, such as condom use and oral birth control reduce the chance of accidental pregnancy to virtually zero.

Then it doesn't matter if someone robs you of all your possessions unless you booby trapped your front yard and installed razor wire.

 

[Red Front]

It cannot be disputed that there are, and always have been throughout history prior to US founding, individuals with political and financial clout who support the culling of what they consider “inferior individuals ”. Their notion of inferior (which should be of no surprise to well-read members) is based upon ethnicity, poverty, or both.

Even you have argued for the position of resolving/reducing poverty, so your 180° turn is most interesting. First, you claimed that voters (paraphrasing your words: religious zealots, greedy Republicans) are against helping the poor, that these voters have removed benefits of those living in poverty.

Eugenics is a continued purpose of abortion supported financially by various amoral individuals. Board members on Planned Parenthood likely contain more than a few who support eugenics privately. That is the reason they formed in the first place under Sanger, you do realize that yes? You can try to dress it up as something other than what it is but the fact remains that many pro-aborts quietly support this exact reason for abortion. In my opinion, it doesn’t get any more evil than that and I tend to stay away from the words “good and evil”as individual cases are usually subjective, but that’s pure evil.

Eugenics is forcing women to abort, which isn't what I'm for. So you're full of shit. The woman should have the right to decide whether she remains pregnant or not, especially early in her pregnancy. You might have a reasonable argument against willy-nilly late-term abortions, but certainly not early in gestation when what is in her womb lacks sentience. My economic argument presents the irony of people who claim to care so much about life in the womb, yet demonstrate through their politics and worldview to have little regard for life outside of the womb.

 

[martybegan]

The biology of human beings allows us to have sex for purposes besides reproduction. That's a biological fact. And robbery is an expected result of you leaving all your windows and doors open, still doesn't mean you've consented to it.

If you leave all your windows and doors open you may be an idiot but that also isn't consent.

Then it doesn't matter if someone robs you of all your possessions unless you booby trapped your front yard and installed razor wire.

How is two people having consensual sex leaving your doors open?

Your analogy was weak to start and fails the more you go on with it.

The purpose of sex and the sex drive is for reproduction. any pleasure is to encourage reproduction and is a feature, not a reason.

 

[Red Front]

How is two people having consensual sex leaving your doors open?

Your analogy was weak to start and fails the more you go on with it.

The purpose of sex and the sex drive is for reproduction. any pleasure is to encourage reproduction and is a feature, not a reason.

There is no law in the universe that forces women to remain pregnant, especially when they live in a society that has little regard for the poor and working class. A woman should decide for herself if she's ready to carry that life in her womb to full term and give birth to a baby. A baby that she will have to bear the cost of raising, even if she's receiving support from others. It's her uterus, her womb, her body.

Should parents be legally obligated to give their children one of their kidneys, if their children are suffering from organ failure?

 

[Curried Goats]

How is two people having consensual sex leaving your doors open?

The analogy is fairly simple to understand.

Your analogy was weak to start and fails the more you go on with it.

Seems to be doing just fine.

The purpose of sex and the sex drive is for reproduction. any pleasure is to encourage reproduction and is a feature, not a reason.

Purpose is something each human being has the biological ability to decide for themselves, save a severe mental disability. There are people out there who desire sex and yet have no desire for kids. What of their biology?

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

yet demonstrate through their politics and worldview to have little regard for life outside of the womb.

Poor thing I guess you missed it the first… second… third… fourth? Time?

Here let me repeat it for you:

Is it illegal to kill humans who have been born already?

Yes or no?

How illegal is it?

Answer these questions and stop lying

 

[martybegan]

There is no law in the universe that forces women to remain pregnant, especially when they live in a society that has little regard for the poor and working class. A woman should decide for herself if she's ready to carry that life in her womb to full term and give birth to a baby. A baby that she will have to bear the cost of raising, even if she's receiving support from others. It's her uterus, her womb, her body.

Should parents be legally obligated to give their children one of their kidneys, if their children are suffering from organ failure?

There is the law of causality that says you deal with the consequences of your action.

With you as a communist I can understand your desire to not be responsible for the actions of your adherents. I know you would love to sweep Stalin, Mao and Pot under the rug.

 

[martybegan]

The analogy is fairly simple to understand.

Seems to be doing just fine.

Purpose is something each human being has the biological ability to decide for themselves, save a severe mental disability. There are people out there who desire sex and yet have no desire for kids. What of their biology?

No, it's completely false and quite frankly idiotic.

Then they should double up on birth control and the dude should pull out before the money shot, before another life is added to the equation.

 

[Curried Goats]

No, it's completely false and quite frankly idiotic.

I notice you always resort to name calling when your arguments run out of room.

Then they should double up on birth control and the dude should pull out before the money shot, before another life is added to the equation.

Why? I don't care about the life of a developing fetus and there's no scientific or biological argument to say that I should have to. The life of an embryo or unviable fetus means nothing to me.

 

[Red Front]

There is the law of causality that says you deal with the consequences of your action.

With you as a communist I can understand your desire to not be responsible for the actions of your adherents. I know you would love to sweep Stalin, Mao and Pot under the rug.

Yes, and one of the ways that we can deal with pregnancy when a woman doesn't want to remain pregnant is...are you ready for this? Abortion. She simply stops the gestation of the embryo or unformed fetus. I'm for abortion early in gestation, not in late development when what is in her womb is likely able to feel pain and suffering. Stalin was against abortion, making it illegal in the Soviet Union. Not all communists agree with me.

Your cheap attempt to invalidate communism by appealing to dishonest, cold war polemics against communist leaders doesn't strengthen your case for capitalist imperialism. Both capitalism and communism have a mountain of rotting, stinking corpses one can point to, so let's stop with the stupid emotional body count rhetoric. Chattel slavery, feudalism, capitalism, socialism, communism, and every other mode of production and economic system that has ever existed, has its pile of dead stinking bodies. People resort to these types of arguments when they have nothing of substance to say against communism. They do everything possible to avoid discussing economics and begin flinging mud as if their opponents can't do the same.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Yes, of course, we do it every day you idiot.

That isn’t even an answer to the question, and again you keep digging your own grave with bullshit like “idiot” here, but by all means keep digging, and lie there happily when you’re done.

You’ve earned it.

Does society have an obligation to keep you connected to a machine at an ICU, indefinitely forever?

No. Healthcare is a service, not a right. “Society” has no obligation to ever pay for that ICU machine for anyone.

Irrelevant non-sequitur much? We’re talking about killing folks here. How borked is your brain to bring that up?

People not getting care they don’t want, that no one wants to offer, or they can’t pay for kills no one. How in the actual fuck did that come to mind?

No. People who are in a certain state, medically, can be left to die or even killed, as humanely as possible.

Withdrawing unwanted or futile care is not killing anyone. Duh?

Euthanasia, which I’m sure you support, should land the “doctor” in prison for murder forever. Again, duh.

It's a society that decides such questions, collectively, together, not one individual like you or me.

Who gives a fuck about “society?”

Rights are individual, not collective.

You didn’t answer the damn question at all.

IS IT CURRENTLY LEGAL TO ATTACK SOMEONE ELSE WHO IS BORN, KILLING THEM?

Rhetorical question, obvious, and you refuse to answer. Yes. Yes of course it is.

HOW ILLEGAL IS IT?

Rhetorical question. Obvious. And you refuse to answer. Extremely illegal. The most severe categories of felonies, resulting in the harshest sentences of any crimes.

Tell me again how we “don’t care” about the born? The intervention we want for the unborn is already in place for the born.

Yeah. I thought so.

Which party wants more rehabilitation for killers and less punishment and no cash bail and earlier parole and all that again? Oh yeah, your socialist party. Probably so you can have them do all the killing you want for your “glorious inevitable revolution.”

 

[martybegan]

I notice you always resort to name calling when your arguments run out of room.

Why? I don't care about the life of a developing fetus and there's no scientific or biological argument to say that I should have to. The life of an embryo or unviable fetus means nothing to me.

That's not name calling, because it's directed at your ideas, not you. Jump out of zone 1 and you will see some epic name calling.

You aren't society, and you don't get to decide that. State legislatures do now that Roe is bye bye.

I already said you are a nihilist, thanks for confirming it.

Asking a nihilist about questions of life and responsibility is like asking PETA for a pork shoulder recipe.

 

[martybegan]

Yes, and one of the ways that we can deal with pregnancy when a woman doesn't want to remain pregnant is...are you ready for this? Abortion. She simply stops the gestation of the embryo or unformed fetus. I'm for abortion early in gestation, not in late development when what is in her womb is likely able to feel pain and suffering. Stalin was against abortion, making it illegal in the Soviet Union. Not all communists agree with me.

Your cheap attempt to invalidate communism by appealing to dishonest, cold war polemics against communist leaders doesn't strengthen your case for capitalist imperialism. Both capitalism and communism have a mountain of rotting, stinking corpses one can point to, so let's stop with the stupid emotional body count rhetoric. Chattel slavery, feudalism, capitalism socialism, communism, and every other mode of production and economic system that has ever existed, has its pile of dead stinking bodies. People resort to these types of arguments when they have nothing of substance to say against communism. They do everything possible to avoid discussing economics and begin flinging mud as if their opponents can't don the same.

Yet you still try to ignore that another life is involved.

Communism has the current champions trend the past century, ironically the century it's been most prevalent.

The issue is dead bodies are a feature of any authoritarian system, including Communism, not a bug.

 

[Curried Goats]

That's not name calling, because it's directed at your ideas, not you. Jump out of zone 1 and you will see some epic name calling.

You aren't society, and you don't get to decide that. State legislatures do now that Roe is bye bye.

I already said you are a nihilist, thanks for confirming it.

Asking a nihilist about questions of life and responsibility is like asking PETA for a pork shoulder recipe.

See. More name calling. First you attempted to make a biological argument and with that failed you're resorting to a political one.

 

[martybegan]

See. More name calling. First you attempted to make a biological argument and with that failed you're resorting to a political one.

Calling you a nihilist isn't name calling either.

 

[Curried Goats]

Calling you a nihilist isn't name calling either.

It literally is.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

See. More name calling. First you attempted to make a biological argument and with that failed you're resorting to a political one.

You are demonstrably a misanthropic bigoted nihilist though?

That isn’t “namecalling,” it’s just what you have said.

Words mean things. It’s how language works.

The lives of other human beings mean nothing to you based on wholly arbitrary reasons. Bigotry, misanthropy, nihilism. Demonstrable facts… works cited - your posts on this thread, Q.E.D.

It’s like innocence - human beings who are utterly helpless and sleeping and can take no negative action or any action whatsoever are objective and perfectly innocent, yet you question this despite it being unassailable and obvious objective truth. It’s patently ridiculous. It’s what the bloody word means.

Words mean things.