Zone1 Serious Question About Abortion

[Road Runner]

Pregnancy is more than just an inconvenience, nonetheless, the woman should decide for herself whether to remain pregnant or not, not you or me. With respect to the embryo supposedly being a human person, that's your opinion. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

What if she already birthed the baby and then decides to abort it? Then what?

 

[Red Front]

What if she already birthed the baby and then decides to abort it? Then what?

Huh? What the hell are you saying? Get off the drugs.

 

[Dayton3]

Huh? What the hell are you saying? Get off the drugs.

Answer the question. If you have the nerve.

 

[Road Runner]

Answer the question. If you have the nerve.

Yeah what you said. They act like it doesn't happen or something.

 

[Red Front]

Yeah what you said. They act like it doesn't happen or something.

I'm referring to a woman's right to end her pregnancy when what she has in her womb is an embryo or an unviable, undeveloped fetus. You're now asking me about when a woman puts up her child for adoption or gives the child to the state. Is that what you're asking, or are you using the word "abortion" to refer to the criminal neglect and abandonment of children? What the hell does that have to do with embryos and unviable fetuses being aborted? Nothing.

 

[Road Runner]

I'm referring to a woman's right to end her pregnancy when what she has in her womb is an embryo or an unviable, undeveloped fetus. You're now asking me about when a woman puts up her child for adoption or gives the child to the state. Is that what you're asking, or are you using the word "abortion" to refer to the criminal neglect and abandonment of children? What the hell does that have to do with embryos and unviable fetuses being aborted? Nothing.

No I'm not talking about any of those things.

After-birth abortion - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Then there should be no problem removing it from HER body.

Naw.

Attacking someone else’s body, causing them to die, is kind of “problematic,” chief.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Obviously, in the middle of a nationwide deadly pandemic, you don't have the right to become a public health hazard by refusing to wear a mask in public venues,

I don’t like the taste of boot as much as you do, so that’s where I am going to have to disagree.

Especially when we consider what you leftoids consider to be “public venues.”

You Christians are irrational "pro-life" hypocrites

I’m not a Christian.

on the grounds that the government doesn't have a right to tell you what to wear on your face

It doesn’t.

while using the same government to criminalize women for choosing not to be pregnant.

Yeah no. That’s assbackwards and asanine. What should be criminalized is the premeditated, malicious, aggressive homicide of the innocent human victim. Because you know… murder, it’s kind of bad and should be criminal.

Eliminating the life of an embryo is worlds apart from killing a human being,

It’s literally the same thing. A premeditated and aggressive homicide is the same as any other premeditated, aggressive homicide.

I do not share your irrational bigotry so I am not blinded from that reality.

You also ironically, as a "pro-life" advocate, do everything possible to defund social programs

Oh absolutely. Because those programs are evil. Duh. In this like - in everything else it seems - you think the greatest evil is morally laudable and just. But the fact remains that these programs are unconstitutional and authoritarian seizure of the property of taxpayers for no purpose but to give largesse to others as coerced charity, ultimately charity at gunpoint. Altruism is a good thing - voluntary charity is a good thing… forcing people to pay for this shit at gunpoint is absolutely repugnant.

At least you are consistent in your utter lack of respect for human rights, but that tracks as you do identify as a communist. You have no respect for life, liberty, OR property.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

I ask the "pro-life" zealots if they would demand the government makes a parent legally obligated to give one of their children their kidney or some other part of their body if their children are in need of a transplant. If not, why not? You're demanding that a woman who conceives an embryo, give her body to that embryo by law, forcing her to carry it to full term, irrespective of whatever her life circumstances might be. An embryo or unviable, undeveloped fetus that isn't even a human person but rather just a potential, can supposedly, legally obligate a woman (an actual human being) to give her body to it in order to let it actualize its human personhood. Based on what do you force women to give their bodies to the gestation and development of embryos and unviable fetuses? Your opinion?

Why don't you then legally obligate parents to give parts of their bodies to their already-born children in cases where children need a transplant? Do you know why you're against that? Because you recognize that people have a certain degree of sovereignty over their own bodies and lives. The government shouldn't force a parent to give one of their kidneys or some other organ to their children. If you recognize that, why do you want to force women to remain pregnant with a zygote, embryo, or unviable fetus? Be consistent.

Yawn.

Pregnancy is basic care. Pregnancy isn’t organ donation. Pregnancy isn’t even blood donation. It’s providing food and shelter to your kid, like a parent should.

I think if your son or daughter needs a kidney or a blood transfusion or bone marrow or something and you’re compatible and you don’t give it, either you’re kind of a piece of shit or your kid REALLY was beforehand, but that isn’t compelled by law and it isn’t comparable to the basic care of pregnancy.

Also, your bigoted hatemongering is noisome. The unborn are “actual human beings.” You have no rational basis whatsoever to claim otherwise. What a clownshow.

Learn what pregnancy is since you insist on stupidly comparing it to organ donations.

 

[Unkotare]

These pro-death zealots attempting to rationalize the taking of the most innocent human life is beyond despicable.

 

[Red Front]

No I'm not talking about any of those things.

After-birth abortion - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

If there is a birth and what was born is a viable human being and baby, that can be, with the assistance of medical technology, spared death, then I'm against killing that life. However, if what is born can't be saved through technology, and is in a coma or vegetative state, connected to a machine with no foreseeable possibility of living independently of that life support system, I don't consider it immoral, much less criminal for the mother to allow her doctor to "pull the plug", disconnecting them from that machine. It happens every single day in ICUs throughout our country, that people with lives, families, and friends, considered members of their community are disconnected from life support machines. That's not "euthanasia" or murder that's just life.

 

[BothWings]

I don't usually agree with Democrats.... But when that otherwise shitbag Obama said that abortions should be legal but RARE I agreed with him. Same as when Bill Clinton said that "don't ask don't tell" was the best policy for gays in the military. I agreed with that then and I agree with it now. But just about everything else those two motherfuckers ever said was pure shit.

 

[Red Front]

These pro-death zealots attempting to rationalize the taking of the most innocent human life is beyond despicable.

Embryos and unviable fetuses aren't human beings or children, it's the women that are pregnant who are the human beings and their needs come first. You shouldn't have the right to force them to remain pregnant. It's you who is pro-death due to your indifference to poverty and the many economic sanctions that the US government is now imposing on developing countries around the world. Actual children are being victimized by US foreign policy:

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Do you care? NO. You don't give a shit. So you're not pro-life, you're the one who is pro-death. Lift the economic sanctions, and stop injuring, starving, ruining, and murdering the children of these developing countries. Stand against American imperialism or you're just a hypocrite devil, pretending to be "pro-life". There are hundreds of thousands of children in America that go to bed hungry and are poor and homeless, living in trailer parks, slums, in cars, in RVs, and even in tents across America. Stop defunding the infrastructure and programs that are in place to assist the poor providing them with vital services, like food, housing, healthcare, education, vocational-job training..etc.

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You "pro-life" conservatives are so concerned and broken for the lives of embryos and fetuses, "children" in other people's wombs. Where is your concern and brokenness for the actual children that are now suffering outside of the womb? I as a social case manager and advocate for the poor and homeless here in NYC, I'm constantly fighting Republican council members who want nothing more than to defund every single social program. They refuse to house the homeless, even when the city has literally millions of vacant sq-footage in the form of unused buildings and properties. We can build infrastructure, house the homeless, provide drug rehab programs, and do everything that is needed to get people back on their feet. These Republican conservatives are constantly trying to defund and derail every single piece of infrastructure and social program that meets the needs of the poor. These right-wing Republican Evangelicals are not pro-life, they're pro-death.

The Salvation Army, and the Christian Missions here in NYC, are not providing the services and resources the poor need, despite of receiving plenty of money from the city. More, many of these religious organizations require the recipients of their aid to essentially become Christians. They have to join an 8-month "Christian Discipleship Program" before they get access to the housing unit, with a bunch of absurd requirements. Really? This family of five:

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Has to attend church daily, and a battery of bible study courses and other events, in order to get a city-paid bunk bed, some food, and perhaps maybe in the future a room in a filthy motel managed by the Christian mission. Really? That's "helping" the poor? That's your "pro-life" solution? Jesus says:

Mat 25:40-46 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. (41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (42) For I was hungry, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: (43) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. (44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Master, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? (45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. (46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life everlasting.

Isa 58:6-8 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? (7) Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? (8) Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the honor of Yahweh shall be thy rear guard.


TO YOUR HOUSE.

That is the high standard of the God of the Bible. YOUR HOUSE. Open the door and let them in. Do you want to reign with Christ? Do you want to inherit eternal life in YHWH's Kingdom? The standard is YOUR HOUSE. Nothing less than EVERYTHING. CARRY YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW ME! You are pro-life? Really? You have so much concern for life in wombs, but how about life outside of the womb? The first Christians under the tutelage of the twelve apostles lived this way:

Act 2:42-47 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. (43) And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. (44) And all that believed were together, and had all things common; (45) And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. (46) And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, (47) Praising Elohim, and having favour with all the people. And our Sovereign added to the assembly daily such as should be saved.

Act 4:32-37 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that any of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. (33) And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Master Yahshua: and great grace was upon them all. (34) Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, (35) And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. (36) And Joseph, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabah, which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation, a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, (37) Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

Those were the TRUE CHRISTIANS. They were genuinely PRO-LIFE, manifesting the presence of GOD with GREAT POWER AND GREAT GRACE. They gave it ALL because that's the price of being a disciple of Jesus Christ. You have to DIE WITH CHRIST. HATE YOUR LIFE IN THIS WORLD AND GIVE JESUS EVERYTHING. Nothing less than EVERYTHING. That's what it means to be a disciple and governor in training. One who will reign with Christ. Jesus promised His disciples:

Rev 3:21-22 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (22) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the assemblies.

If you're a disciple of Jesus Christ you will reign over the nations from heaven. The cost of discipleship is EVERYTHING. You care so much for the life of embryos and fetuses, how about life outside of the womb, do you care about the homeless children in America, how about the children right now suffering due to America's economic sanctions? Do you care about that? NO NO NO YOU DON'T. IT'S NOT WHAT YOU SAY, IT'S WHAT YOU DO THAT MATTERS. What you do.

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[DudleySmith]

Huh? What the hell are you saying? Get off the drugs.

Ah, but 'Science' proves there is no difference between a 'fetus' and a two year old. The next step in your cult's demand for human sacrifices will be killing babies up to two years old.

After-birth abortion: why should the baby live? | Journal of Medical Ethics

So, it's a legitimate question. You will soon be parroting support for that whenever your cult leaders tell you to.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Embryos and unviable fetuses aren't human beings

Objectively false, bigoted, and stupid statement. They are human beings. They are not, somehow, members of another species… obviously. Why tell such an obvious lie that you know to be a lie? It is ridiculous.

it's the women that are pregnant who are the human beings and their needs come first

Or… we could believe in equality and not just kill innocents on a whim. Just a thought, unclouded by stark raving hatemongering,

It's you who is pro-death due to your indifference to poverty

oh good, more socialist claptrap

Yawn. Ignored. Skip.

Where is your concern and brokenness for the actual children that are now suffering outside of the womb?

It’s already illegal to kill them!

Did you not realize that?! How?!

If you did realize that, and you should realize the absolutely obvious, then why are you saying this nonsense to us?!

as a social case manager and advocate for the poor and homeless here in NYC

You want to waste the taxpayers money on charity taken at gunpoint, yes, and you’re a terrible person for doing this.

In a better city you would lose every time, but this is NYC and they never met a socialist spending scheme they didn’t like.


Really I would have given this rambling nonsense awful post a laugh reaction instead of the red thumbs down but you just put so much ignorance and bigotry into it that your words are just nasty, not funny.

 

[Unkotare]

Embryos and unviable fetuses aren't human beings....

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Pro-death ghouls like you try to convince yourselves of things you know are patently untrue to justify your bloodlust.

 

[Unkotare]

Some of the favorite illogical rhetoric from pro-death democrats: "If you don't embrace EVERY far left economic policy, you don't really care about life!"

Such illogical nonsense.

 

[Red Front]

Ah, but 'Science' proves there is no difference between a 'fetus' and a two year old. The next step in your cult's demand for human sacrifices will be killing babies up to two years old.

After-birth abortion: why should the baby live? | Journal of Medical Ethics

So, it's a legitimate question. You will soon be parroting support for that whenever your cult leaders tell you to.

Ah your conclusions are xxxxxxxxx unwarranted.

 

[Red Front]

Pro-death ghouls like you try to convince yourselves of things you know are patently untrue to justify your bloodlust.

Keep projecting yourself on me.

 

[ClaireH]

And you believe them?

Give us a break.

I thought more about your comment and I think you believe my post stated that the number one reason was because they “couldn’t afford it” but that was not the result of that survey. The top reason was they were “not ready for a baby” and even parents who plan in advance will say they didn’t have everything “ready” as in baby proofing the house etc. well after the baby has been delivered.

There is a subservient motive that has gone on for many decades with specific individuals and groups in power to continue to use abortion as a culling for population control via eugenics to remove undesirables from society. This is the question that pro aborts need to be asked at all rallies directly what they know about the history of eugenics. It would be most telling to see their expressions when asked this question as most (definitely well over 50%) would be clueless parrots.