Zone1 Serious Question About Abortion

[Red Front]

How is killing developing human life the 'real world?' Seems to me it's more like denial of reality.

A single cell is a human life, and nonetheless, that doesn't make it a human person. It's up to the woman to decide if she's going to remain pregnant or not because she's the one who is pregnant and has to risk the hazards and bear the cost of pregnancy. She should have control and sovereignty over her body and reproductive system, and no one should have the right to force her to remain pregnant before that life in her womb becomes viable and possibly sentient. Early in the pregnancy when what is in her womb isn't sentient or viable, she should have the right to end gestation. You can pretend to care about embryos and fetuses in other people's bodies, but you don't fool me. I know why you're griping about abortion, and it's not because you sincerely care about embryos and fetuses, it's because you hate "harlots", and want them to suffer.

The same Christian conservatives, that were whining about mask mandates because the government supposedly doesn't have a right to force anyone to put on a mask on their face (their body), is the same Christian conservative using the government to force women to remain pregnant for nine months. Hey holy-roller, are you going to house and feed that pregnant woman and her fetus that you "love so much", when she loses her job due to her pregnancy? The pregnancy that she is forced to go through thanks to you employing the government to criminalize any attempt by a woman to end gestation. Hello, hypocrisy much?

You Christian Conservatives are the champions of fetuses, in other people's bodies then you give those single mothers and their babies the birdie-finger, by defunding the social programs that they need to live. You cut food stamps, rental, and housing assistance, you render the poor ineligible for Medicaid if they don't have a diagnosed disability (like in Florida and in other "Bible Belt" states where you need to be dirt poor AND disabled to qualify for Medicaid). You vote for Republican politicians that defund daycare programs for low-income families and single mothers, you cut funding for school lunch programs and after-school activities, you cut cut cut cut...But you have no problem spending $30, $60, or $100+ weekly buying Papa Johns's Pizza, watching evil Hollywood movies (including the expensive porn), and going to the range to fire your guns. You expect the poor to be groveling at the feet of your pastor for some crumbs, to be begging strangers on "GoFundMe.com" or at the "Salvation Army". That's your decrepit 'Christian solution', which isn't a solution at all for poverty at a national scale.

No one should beg for housing or healthcare, it should be a human right, in a civilized, modern society. There's no excuse for poverty in an industrialized, wealthy nation like ours. No one should have to beg for bread. Even the bible that you Christian "pro-life" conservatives claim to follow commands society to feed and house the poor. You're champions of embryos and fetuses uuuuuuuwwwweeeeeee! You have so much love in your heart for life in the womb, while completely ignoring the needs of the poor outside of the womb. You hold them in contempt due to this warped idea that you have that the poor are that way due to their own fault. Hardly, it's often due to many other factors, and it's definitely not because the poor are lazy. The poor are the ones working two fulltime jobs to pay their bills, in a country where the cost of living is constantly rising. You Christian conservatives aren't pro-life at all. You want to reduce abortion rates? Eliminate poverty and more single women will carry that life in their wombs to full term and even raise their children.

 

[Dayton3]

A single cell is a human life, and nonetheless, that doesn't make it a human person. It's up to the woman to decide if she's going to remain pregnant or not because she's the one who is pregnant and has to risk the hazards and bear the cost of pregnancy. She should have control and sovereignty over her body and reproductive system, and no one should have the right to force her to remain pregnant before that life in her womb becomes viable and possibly sentient. Early in the pregnancy when what is in her womb isn't sentient or viable, she should have the right to end gestation. You can pretend to care about embryos and fetuses in other people's bodies, but you don't fool me. I know why you're griping about abortion, and it's not because you sincerely care about embryos and fetuses, it's because you hate "harlots", and want them to suffer.

The same Christian conservatives, that were whining about mask mandates because the government supposedly doesn't have a right to force anyone to put on a mask on their face (their body), is the same Christian conservative using the government to force women to remain pregnant for nine months. Hey holy-roller, are you going to house and feed that pregnant woman and her fetus that you "love so much", when she loses her job due to her pregnancy? The pregnancy that she is forced to go through thanks to you employing the government to criminalize any attempt by a woman to end gestation. Hello, hypocrisy much?

You Christian Conservatives are the champions of fetuses, in other people's bodies then you give those single mothers and their babies the birdie-finger, by defunding the social programs that they need to live. You cut food stamps, rental, and housing assistance, you render the poor ineligible for Medicaid if they don't have a diagnosed disability (like in Florida and in other "Bible Belt" states where you need to be dirt poor AND disabled to qualify for Medicaid). You vote for Republican politicians that defund daycare programs for low-income families and single mothers, you cut funding for school lunch programs and after-school activities, you cut cut cut cut...But you have no problem spending $30, $60, or $100+ weekly buying Papa Johns's Pizza, watching evil Hollywood movies (including the expensive porn), and going to the range to fire your guns. You expect the poor to be groveling at the feet of your pastor for some crumbs, to be begging strangers on "GoFundMe.com" or at the "Salvation Army". That's your decrepit 'Christian solution', which isn't a solution at all for poverty at a national scale.

No one should beg for housing or healthcare, it should be a human right, in a civilized, modern society. There's no excuse for poverty in an industrialized, wealthy nation like ours. No one should have to beg for bread. Even the bible that you Christian "pro-life" conservatives claim to follow commands society to feed and house the poor. You're champions of embryos and fetuses uuuuuuuwwwweeeeeee! You have so much love in your heart for life in the womb, while completely ignoring the needs of the poor outside of the womb. You hold them in contempt due to this warped idea that you have that the poor are that way due to their own fault. Hardly, it's often due to many other factors, and it's definitely not because the poor are lazy. The poor are the ones working two fulltime jobs to pay their bills, in a country where the cost of living is constantly rising. You Christian conservatives aren't pro-life at all. You want to reduce abortion rates? Eliminate poverty and more single women will carry that life in their wombs to full term and even raise their children.

What makes you think women get abortions mainly due to poverty?

 

[Resnic]

I do believe that JohnDB also brought up this point once before. Why don't fathers ever have their right to refuse an abortion and take care of their own kid?

Same reason when it comes time to get a divorce the courts heavily favor women when it comes time to pay.

And why men are expected to pay for everything when dating a woman.

Why women claim to be equal to men but don't want to sign up for the draft or work dangerous jobs for the most part.

Why when a woman makes an allegation about something a man did society automatically sides with the woman and the man is fired from his job and drug through the mud.

They get away with having outbursts and being irrational in public.

"Women and children first". They are the ones saved first or taken care of first before men.

Why? I don't know exactly beyond they want to be equal but also treated special which doesn't really work. On the whole it's probably because men don't speak up because they want to get laid.

 

[Resnic]

A single cell is a human life, and nonetheless, that doesn't make it a human person. It's up to the woman to decide if she's going to remain pregnant or not because she's the one who is pregnant and has to risk the hazards and bear the cost of pregnancy. She should have control and sovereignty over her body and reproductive system, and no one should have the right to force her to remain pregnant before that life in her womb becomes viable and possibly sentient. Early in the pregnancy when what is in her womb isn't sentient or viable, she should have the right to end gestation. You can pretend to care about embryos and fetuses in other people's bodies, but you don't fool me. I know why you're griping about abortion, and it's not because you sincerely care about embryos and fetuses, it's because you hate "harlots", and want them to suffer.

The same Christian conservatives, that were whining about mask mandates because the government supposedly doesn't have a right to force anyone to put on a mask on their face (their body), is the same Christian conservative using the government to force women to remain pregnant for nine months. Hey holy-roller, are you going to house and feed that pregnant woman and her fetus that you "love so much", when she loses her job due to her pregnancy? The pregnancy that she is forced to go through thanks to you employing the government to criminalize any attempt by a woman to end gestation. Hello, hypocrisy much?

You Christian Conservatives are the champions of fetuses, in other people's bodies then you give those single mothers and their babies the birdie-finger, by defunding the social programs that they need to live. You cut food stamps, rental, and housing assistance, you render the poor ineligible for Medicaid if they don't have a diagnosed disability (like in Florida and in other "Bible Belt" states where you need to be dirt poor AND disabled to qualify for Medicaid). You vote for Republican politicians that defund daycare programs for low-income families and single mothers, you cut funding for school lunch programs and after-school activities, you cut cut cut cut...But you have no problem spending $30, $60, or $100+ weekly buying Papa Johns's Pizza, watching evil Hollywood movies (including the expensive porn), and going to the range to fire your guns. You expect the poor to be groveling at the feet of your pastor for some crumbs, to be begging strangers on "GoFundMe.com" or at the "Salvation Army". That's your decrepit 'Christian solution', which isn't a solution at all for poverty at a national scale.

No one should beg for housing or healthcare, it should be a human right, in a civilized, modern society. There's no excuse for poverty in an industrialized, wealthy nation like ours. No one should have to beg for bread. Even the bible that you Christian "pro-life" conservatives claim to follow commands society to feed and house the poor. You're champions of embryos and fetuses uuuuuuuwwwweeeeeee! You have so much love in your heart for life in the womb, while completely ignoring the needs of the poor outside of the womb. You hold them in contempt due to this warped idea that you have that the poor are that way due to their own fault. Hardly, it's often due to many other factors, and it's definitely not because the poor are lazy. The poor are the ones working two fulltime jobs to pay their bills, in a country where the cost of living is constantly rising. You Christian conservatives aren't pro-life at all. You want to reduce abortion rates? Eliminate poverty and more single women will carry that life in their wombs to full term and even raise their children.

Even as a blob, a baby is still a baby though. Soon as the egg and sperm meet and it drops down to gestate then it's a baby. Barring any unforeseen circumstances that blob will be a baby and is starting it's 17 to 19 year journey towards growing into an adult. 4 weeks as a blob, right after birth, 2 years later, etc are all growing stages. If you don't abort it then you will have a baby that will be an adult.

And an abortion is called an abortion because you're prematurely ending a babies life. If there is no baby then there can be no abortion.

And a woman does have a right to chose. She can choose to use protection, she can choose to have a man use protection, she can choose not to have unsafe sex, or she can choose not to have sex. I chose not to have kids and I never had any because I didn't put my dick in any hole I could, and when I had sex I used a condom or I didn't do it.

Women should realize they bear the burden if they get pregnant, sex is a risk and if they take that risk then shouldn't they be responsible for their choices? If a man gets a woman pregnant and she doesn't abort the law makes sure he is responsible for his actions. So how come women don't have to be responsible if they don't want to?

I'm not religious or some hardcore conservative. All I'm saying is aborting a baby is killing a baby but no one wants to admit that. You're killing a child because if you just leave it alone one day it will say words and walk around.

If you don't want to run risks then one shouldn't engage in risky behavior.

 

[Red Front]

Even as a blob, a baby is still a baby though. Soon as the egg and sperm meet and it drops down to gestate then it's a baby. Barring any unforeseen circumstances that blob will be a baby and is starting it's 17 to 19 year journey towards growing into an adult. 4 weeks as a blob, right after birth, 2 years later, etc are all growing stages. If you don't abort it then you will have a baby that will be an adult.

And an abortion is called an abortion because you're prematurely ending a babies life. If there is no baby then there can be no abortion.

And a woman does have a right to chose. She can choose to use protection, she can choose to have a man use protection, she can choose not to have unsafe sex, or she can choose not to have sex. I chose not to have kids and I never had any because I didn't put my dick in any hole I could, and when I had sex I used a condom or I didn't do it.

Women should realize they bear the burden if they get pregnant, sex is a risk and if they take that risk then shouldn't they be responsible for their choices? If a man gets a woman pregnant and she doesn't abort the law makes sure he is responsible for his actions. So how come women don't have to be responsible if they don't want to?

I'm not religious or some hardcore conservative. All I'm saying is aborting a baby is killing a baby but no one wants to admit that. You're killing a child because if you just leave it alone one day it will say words and walk around.

If you don't want to run risks then one shouldn't engage in risky behavior.

No, a zygote or embryo isn't a baby, any more than a baby is a teenager or a full-grown adult. You nor I should have the right to force a woman to remain pregnant, especially early in her pregnancy. An embryo or unviable, undeveloped fetus shouldn't have the same rights as an actual human being, namely the woman who is carrying it. It's the woman's body and life that are being burdened and affected by the pregnancy, it's her pregnancy and you nor I have the right to force her to remain pregnant, especially early in the pregnancy.

 

[Red Front]

What makes you think women get abortions mainly due to poverty?

Disparities in Abortion Rates: A Public Health Approach

Women of lower socioeconomic status and women of color in the United States have higher rates of abortion than women of higher socioeconomic status and White women. Opponents of abortion use these statistics to argue that abortion providers are exploiting ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

59% Of Women Seeking Abortions Are Mothers Facing High Poverty Risk

Johnny Cash’s Christmas album thanks Mary for the child. Christmas focuses on the child for good reason, but Cash calls us to thank the mother. And mothers’ interest are being squeezed out in the debate about abortion. Most women seeking abortions are caring for their children.

www.forbes.com

Nearly half of women who have abortions live below the federal poverty level

This week, a federal judge temporarily blocked lawmakers in Georgia from enacting legislation that would have made abortions in that state more restrictive.

www.marketwatch.com

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

It is part of her body.

Deranged and objectively false.

Learn basic biology, basic embryology. Learn what a placenta is.

The kid is objectively NOT “part of his or her mother.”

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Stop whining about dead embryos and fetuses when you're so indifferent to life outside of the womb. The only reason you pretend to care about embryos and fetuses in the wombs of strangers is because of your self-righteous attempt to punish fornicators and those you deem to be immoral. You want to punish women you consider to be "harlots" by using the government to force them to remain pregnant and you do that while crying about government-enforced mask mandates. You gripe about the government forcing you to wear a mask on your face in the middle of a nationwide deadly pandemic because it supposedly doesn't have the authority to tell you what to do with your body, then you turn around and use that same government to force women's bodies to remain pregnant for nine months. You're hypocrites.

Funny how you cite an example of your own authoritarian hypocrisy in projecting your own foible onto others.

And by funny, I mean aggravating, disgusting, and yet sadly typical and expected.

 

[Curried Goats]

Deranged and objectively false.

Learn basic biology, basic embryology. Learn what a placenta is.

The kid is objectively NOT “part of his or her mother.”

You mean other than objectively being a by product of her DNA and residing inside her womb.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

You mean other than objectively being a by product of her DNA and residing inside her womb.

I’m sorry you flunked out of Biology class but please try to speak about this issue in relevant terms. Parenthood is neither ownership nor some kind of possession… like… in the demonic sense, where you can somehow direct and own the body of someone else such that they are somehow a part of you.

 

[Dayton3]

Disparities in Abortion Rates: A Public Health Approach

Women of lower socioeconomic status and women of color in the United States have higher rates of abortion than women of higher socioeconomic status and White women. Opponents of abortion use these statistics to argue that abortion providers are exploiting ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

59% Of Women Seeking Abortions Are Mothers Facing High Poverty Risk

Johnny Cash’s Christmas album thanks Mary for the child. Christmas focuses on the child for good reason, but Cash calls us to thank the mother. And mothers’ interest are being squeezed out in the debate about abortion. Most women seeking abortions are caring for their children.

www.forbes.com

Nearly half of women who have abortions live below the federal poverty level

This week, a federal judge temporarily blocked lawmakers in Georgia from enacting legislation that would have made abortions in that state more restrictive.

www.marketwatch.com

And you believe them? Why?

 

[Curried Goats]

I’m sorry you flunked out of Biology class but please try to speak about this issue in relevant terms. Parenthood is neither ownership nor some kind of possession… like… in the demonic sense, where you can somehow direct and own the body of someone else such that they are somehow a part of you.

I'm not sure where you were educated but demons and property rights weren't covered in my biology class.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

I'm not sure where you were educated but demons and property rights weren't covered in my biology class.

Well I mean you seem to think that the mother is literally the kid… and since that is biologically unsound, I can only assume you are so delusional as to be unable to distinguish between fantasy / science fiction and reality.

But there is no evidence to support even this far fetched hypothesis of yours… if we could even generously call it that.

 

[Curried Goats]

Well I mean you seem to think that the mother is literally the kid and since that is biologically unsound, I can only assume you are so delusional as to be unable to distinguish between fantasy / science fiction and reality.

I can't help what things seem like to you, only you're responsible for that. I said, objectively, that any child is comprised partly of its mothers DNA and at a time resided in her womb. You're the one who decided to go on about demons and property rights.

 

[Red Front]

And you believe them? Why?

So now you're rejecting all of the studies and polls on the issue, conducted by different institutions and organizations, and appealing to what? Your feelings? Not only does the data agree with my assertion that poverty contributes to abortion rates, but reason and common sense. If a single or even a married woman is impoverished and barely able to support herself, what's the likelihood of her opting to bear the cost of pregnancy and raising a child? If a woman with a low income is working a full-time job, supporting herself, and now she's pregnant, facing the prospect of losing her job as a result of her pregnancy and having to incur the extra cost of pregnancy, birth, and raising a child for 18 years, the likelihood of her getting an abortion is much higher. If she wasn't poor, had a good paying job with healthcare benefits that cover all of her expenses, or at least had access to Medicaid or Medicare, and was living in a country that provides its citizens with a well-developed infrastructure that supports single mothers in their effort to raise healthy children and the means to live above the poverty line, the odds of her opting to abort her pregnancy would be much less.

I know you won't agree with anything I've just said because earlier you just took out your magic wand and flippantly dismissed the references that I presented in support of the original premise that poverty increases abortion rates. You obviously don't care what the experts, studies, polls, or institutions are saying on the subject, because you've decided that reality is whatever you want it to be, irrespective of the evidence or data. With people like you, there is no discussion or debate, because you're completely indifferent to reality and truth. Thankfully most people aren't as disingenuous and disinterested in the truth as you are, hence that's the only reason I'm still responding to you and your ilk. I do it for the sake of others, not the brainwashed, religious zealots that dishonestly dismiss whatever evidence is presented to them.

 

[Red Front]

Funny how you cite an example of your own authoritarian hypocrisy in projecting your own foible onto others.

And by funny, I mean aggravating, disgusting, and yet sadly typical and expected.

Be more specific with your criticism, by clearly defining how the other person is committing what you're accusing them of. How am I being an "authoritarian hypocrite" that is projecting that upon others? Go ahead, explain.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

I can't help what things seem like to you

I can’t help that you are so deluded as to engage in some kind of bizarro magical thinking where a distinct human being with their own body is the property or possession or, most insane of all, literally the same entity as another human being.

I can, of course, correct your ludicrous delusion.

 

[Curried Goats]

I can’t help that you are so deluded as to engage in some kind of bizarro magical thinking where a distinct human being with their own body is the property or possession or, most insane of all, literally the same entity as another human being.

That's not at all what I said. But nice try.

I can, of course, correct your ludicrous delusion.

Sure you can demon slayer.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Be more specific with your criticism, by clearly defining how the other person is committing what you're accusing them of. How am I being an "authoritarian hypocrite" that is projecting that upon others? Go ahead, explain.

You don’t care about “my body, my choice” when demanding people wear a mask or get vaccinated. Obviously. You gave up that talking point. Authoritarians like yourself can’t use that one anymore. You’re done.

And then of course the implied “hypocrisy” of not supporting social programs while supporting laws against murdering the born… when wanting laws against murdering the unborn… the same standard for both camps… I don’t know where you learned the language but the same standard universally isn’t “hypocrisy.”

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

That's not at all what I said

And yet, it actually is. Please refrain from lying if possible.