Seriously.....Can Anybody Really Imagine Donald Trump As President?

[kaz]

His policies, actions, and statements verify what I said. Obbie and Mooshelle hate the USA for its past sins against minorities (real or imagined) and they have been determined to "get even" and punish whitey. His refusal to identify the enemy as radical islam and his support of the terrorist organization BLM is further confirmation of his goal to destroy our culture, our economy, and our borders.

Your are free to continue to worship him, but you do it out of ignorance or stupidity.

Total, utter crap. There is not one shred of credible evidence to support your assertion. Just wishful thinking by Obama haters and shills for the neocon whackjobs of the right.

"the Cambridge police acted stupidly"
"I want to fundamentally change the USA"
"Islam is a religion of peace"
"Michael Brown was a victim"
"BLM is not a racist organization"
"healthcare premiums will go down $2500/year"
"I was never proud of my country"
"If I had a son he would look like Trayvon"

None of the above prove your assertion, and quite a few of them are correct. Trayvon Martin would look like the president, the Cambridge police absolutely looked like dickheads, and what is wrong with wanting to change a place for the better?

In your mind, that's an intellectually valid question? Really?

 

[Correll]

That was a long time ago.

Competition was supposed to force American manufacturers to become more competitive, and displaced workers would retrain for new jobs in high tech industries.

Instead, American corporations have learned the joys of outsourcing and those high tech jobs are being filled with cheap H1-B visa workers.

OUr Trade Policy of the last 40 years has NOT worked the way it was supposed to, and the American workers and Working and Middle Classes have been getting screwed.

Time for a new policy, one that serves the interests of America and Americans.

You really need to understand reality better and rely less on talking points. This is what I do for a living and you don't have any idea what's going on.

And arguing why Trump is anti-capitalist and anti-free trade doesn't make him a capitalist or pro-free trade

Logical Fallacy of Appeal to Authority.

I live in the Rust Belt. That you have managed to get a piece of the shrinking pie, is great for you.

But that does not mean that it is good for America as a whole, nor the vastly larger number of Americans who have seen their wages and jobs stagnate for the last 40 years.

Appeal to Authority makes no sense in that case, don't be silly. What authority are you even talking about?

Instead of responding substantially to what I said, you cited your your personal job experience, and dismissed me as though your citing your experience settled the issue.

That is appealing to your self as an Authority.

Thus, you did not challenge or even address my point at all, so it still stands.



That was a long time ago.

Competition was supposed to force American manufacturers to become more competitive, and displaced workers would retrain for new jobs in high tech industries.

Instead, American corporations have learned the joys of outsourcing and those high tech jobs are being filled with cheap H1-B visa workers.

OUr Trade Policy of the last 40 years has NOT worked the way it was supposed to, and the American workers and Working and Middle Classes have been getting screwed.

Time for a new policy, one that serves the interests of America and Americans.

That's not what appeal to authority means. But doing something for a living doesn't mean I know anything about it. That's just stupid

That is exactly what an Appeal to Authority is.

You cite your expertise, or "authority" on the subject and dismiss my point(s).

That is a Logical Fallacy and thus your argument is unsupported and my point stands.



Competition was supposed to force American manufacturers to become more competitive, and displaced workers would retrain for new jobs in high tech industries.

Instead, American corporations have learned the joys of outsourcing and those high tech jobs are being filled with cheap H1-B visa workers.

OUr Trade Policy of the last 40 years has NOT worked the way it was supposed to, and the American workers and Working and Middle Classes have been getting screwed.

Time for a new policy, one that serves the interests of America and Americans.

 

[Correll]

You do not have the Right to Trade with who you want.


And no, your "self interest" has not lead to jobs for the American Workers.

Ding, ding, ding! I'm for freedom, you're coming clean that you're not. And you don't know what you're talking about, comrade. Straight out of the left's playbook

Nothing in your post addressed my points.

1. You do not have a "Right" to trade with whom you wan.

Which is why I'm not voting for Trump, he's an anti-capitalist. And why you are voting for Trump, you are anti-capitalist too

I challenge you to support your claim that you have a Right to Trade with whom you want. HInt: BUzz words don't count.

Bull, I don't have to prove I have a right to freedom, you have to prove I don't

You argument is that you have the Right to TRade with whom you want.

But you've done NOTHING to support your claim.

2. "Free Trade" has NOT lead to the jobs for the Working and Middle Class as theory predicted.

By itself? No. But it's a huge positive and why we are the #1 economy in the world. You and Trump want to be poor and equal, comrade

Actually we became the number one economy back in the late 1800s, during a period of high tariffs.

And "Free Trade" has not lead to the jobs for the Working Class and Middle Class that Free Trade Ideology predicted.

So you say doing something for a living doesn't mean I know anything about it. Yet you know more than the field of economics does about free trade. Sureure you do, Skippy

That is not what I said. I cited an historical fact and a current fact that contradicts your claims.


Here is some documentation.

Tariffs in United States history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


During the period of time we became the world's number one economy, we had a tariff that was 25% or higher.

 

[Redfish]

His policies, actions, and statements verify what I said. Obbie and Mooshelle hate the USA for its past sins against minorities (real or imagined) and they have been determined to "get even" and punish whitey. His refusal to identify the enemy as radical islam and his support of the terrorist organization BLM is further confirmation of his goal to destroy our culture, our economy, and our borders.

Your are free to continue to worship him, but you do it out of ignorance or stupidity.

Total, utter crap. There is not one shred of credible evidence to support your assertion. Just wishful thinking by Obama haters and shills for the neocon whackjobs of the right.

"the Cambridge police acted stupidly"
"I want to fundamentally change the USA"
"Islam is a religion of peace"
"Michael Brown was a victim"
"BLM is not a racist organization"
"healthcare premiums will go down $2500/year"
"I was never proud of my country"
"If I had a son he would look like Trayvon"

None of the above prove your assertion, and quite a few of them are correct. Trayvon Martin would look like the president, the Cambridge police absolutely looked like dickheads, and what is wrong with wanting to change a place for the better?

The Cambridge police were doing their job. If the professor had been white it would never have made the news.

The president of the USA should not be taking sides in a local case, especially when he does not have all of the facts.

Would the son of a black president be a thug on drugs looking for trouble? is that what you and Obama are saying?

How is creating racial tension, "change for the better" ?

 

[Dr Grump]

Really? You ARE silly. I'd give you a list of his actions like supporting ISIS in Syria and his rhetoric, but if you were capable of seeing it, you already would

Now you're just being silly. Oh, and don't think for one moment I'm not seeing what you're trying to do here - like going after Assad is 'supporting' ISIS. yeah, right...

 

[Correll]

Why is competing with them not in our interest?

Because they are producing low margin jobs. We want to use their low margin offering to support high margin jobs. Low margin jobs that aren't economically viable harm us, they don't help. You're all wrapped up in the greater good Marxist crap of the left and Trump, you wouldn't understand

We have millions, tens of millions of Americans who have suffered by having those "low margin" jobs shipped overseas and would greatly benefit from having them come back

Not everyone can be a supervisor for a team of Indian software developers.


ps. saying "marxist" is not an argument. lt is mindless spin.

People are suffering because the hysterical fear crowd has decided you want to keep blacksmiths and live in an agrarian culture like we did 100 years ago. You fear change and think America can't compete on a level paying field. You're wrong, we are very good at it.

Actually, the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.

But, I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.

The problem is the politicians you are empowering to strangle the goose that laid the golden egg, capitalism. And the heart of capitalism is free trade.

America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

Your constant and dramatic use of buzz words lends itself to very powerful rhetoric.

But is it not factual.

Nor lending itself to making rational arguments or logical explanations.

Corporate America doesn't need you to shelter us. We need you to stay out of the way.

Yes, I've covered the fact that you have managed to adjust to making money despite our inability to compete. That is all well and good for you. But Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

Shit flows downstream.

Wow. Thanks. So if I position myself downstream from you I can get shit? Gee... Thanks. for the tip.

You are hurting yourself more than us.

Nope. We are hurting now while you are benefiting. We want to change that.

We'll figure out a way to take care of ourselves, we always do

Your recent performance does not lend itself to bragging. Making the mental leap to take advantage of cheap Third World Labor to cut costs is not exactly an Act of Genius.

. As you observed, we aren't figuring out a way to take care of the rest of you who are doing this to yourselves and want Trump to double down on the stupidity

We aren't asking you to take care of us. We want to craft American Trade Policy to benefit the US and Americans.


We figure you will adjust one way or another to this.

You're a Marxist, I got it. And you're not an interesting one. Just endless hysterical fear and government is the solution to all our problems. Sure they are ...

You addressed none of my points.

Thus they all stand.


1. the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.


2. I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

3. The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.


4. America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

5. Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

 

[Dr Grump]

The Cambridge police were doing their job. If the professor had been white it would never have made the news.

The president of the USA should not be taking sides in a local case, especially when he does not have all of the facts.

Would the son of a black president be a thug on drugs looking for trouble? is that what you and Obama are saying?

How is creating racial tension, "change for the better" ?

Yeah, and AFTER he showed them his ID the Cambridge police still proceeded to arrest him. They were idiots.

Didn't say his son would BE like Martin, said he would LOOK like Martin.

He's not creating the tension. Dumb, under trained white cops are.

 

[kaz]

Really? You ARE silly. I'd give you a list of his actions like supporting ISIS in Syria and his rhetoric, but if you were capable of seeing it, you already would

Now you're just being silly. Oh, and don't think for one moment I'm not seeing what you're trying to do here - like going after Assad is 'supporting' ISIS. yeah, right...

Um ... one of the two objectives in the NAME of ISIS is toppling the Syrian government, Assad.

 

[kaz]

Because they are producing low margin jobs. We want to use their low margin offering to support high margin jobs. Low margin jobs that aren't economically viable harm us, they don't help. You're all wrapped up in the greater good Marxist crap of the left and Trump, you wouldn't understand

We have millions, tens of millions of Americans who have suffered by having those "low margin" jobs shipped overseas and would greatly benefit from having them come back

Not everyone can be a supervisor for a team of Indian software developers.


ps. saying "marxist" is not an argument. lt is mindless spin.

People are suffering because the hysterical fear crowd has decided you want to keep blacksmiths and live in an agrarian culture like we did 100 years ago. You fear change and think America can't compete on a level paying field. You're wrong, we are very good at it.

Actually, the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.

But, I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.

The problem is the politicians you are empowering to strangle the goose that laid the golden egg, capitalism. And the heart of capitalism is free trade.

America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

Your constant and dramatic use of buzz words lends itself to very powerful rhetoric.

But is it not factual.

Nor lending itself to making rational arguments or logical explanations.

Corporate America doesn't need you to shelter us. We need you to stay out of the way.

Yes, I've covered the fact that you have managed to adjust to making money despite our inability to compete. That is all well and good for you. But Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

Shit flows downstream.

Wow. Thanks. So if I position myself downstream from you I can get shit? Gee... Thanks. for the tip.

You are hurting yourself more than us.

Nope. We are hurting now while you are benefiting. We want to change that.

We'll figure out a way to take care of ourselves, we always do

Your recent performance does not lend itself to bragging. Making the mental leap to take advantage of cheap Third World Labor to cut costs is not exactly an Act of Genius.

. As you observed, we aren't figuring out a way to take care of the rest of you who are doing this to yourselves and want Trump to double down on the stupidity

We aren't asking you to take care of us. We want to craft American Trade Policy to benefit the US and Americans.


We figure you will adjust one way or another to this.

You're a Marxist, I got it. And you're not an interesting one. Just endless hysterical fear and government is the solution to all our problems. Sure they are ...

You addressed none of my points.

Thus they all stand.


1. the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.


2. I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

3. The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.


4. America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

5. Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

You're a Marxist swilling Democrat, you're boring.

Let's start with this. You know more about economics than the field of economics because ...

 

[Correll]

We have millions, tens of millions of Americans who have suffered by having those "low margin" jobs shipped overseas and would greatly benefit from having them come back

Not everyone can be a supervisor for a team of Indian software developers.


ps. saying "marxist" is not an argument. lt is mindless spin.

People are suffering because the hysterical fear crowd has decided you want to keep blacksmiths and live in an agrarian culture like we did 100 years ago. You fear change and think America can't compete on a level paying field. You're wrong, we are very good at it.

Actually, the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.

But, I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.

The problem is the politicians you are empowering to strangle the goose that laid the golden egg, capitalism. And the heart of capitalism is free trade.

America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

Your constant and dramatic use of buzz words lends itself to very powerful rhetoric.

But is it not factual.

Nor lending itself to making rational arguments or logical explanations.

Corporate America doesn't need you to shelter us. We need you to stay out of the way.

Yes, I've covered the fact that you have managed to adjust to making money despite our inability to compete. That is all well and good for you. But Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

Shit flows downstream.

Wow. Thanks. So if I position myself downstream from you I can get shit? Gee... Thanks. for the tip.

You are hurting yourself more than us.

Nope. We are hurting now while you are benefiting. We want to change that.

We'll figure out a way to take care of ourselves, we always do

Your recent performance does not lend itself to bragging. Making the mental leap to take advantage of cheap Third World Labor to cut costs is not exactly an Act of Genius.

. As you observed, we aren't figuring out a way to take care of the rest of you who are doing this to yourselves and want Trump to double down on the stupidity

We aren't asking you to take care of us. We want to craft American Trade Policy to benefit the US and Americans.


We figure you will adjust one way or another to this.

You're a Marxist, I got it. And you're not an interesting one. Just endless hysterical fear and government is the solution to all our problems. Sure they are ...

You addressed none of my points.

Thus they all stand.


1. the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.


2. I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

3. The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.


4. America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

5. Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

You're a Marxist swilling Democrat, you're boring.

Let's start with this. You know more about economics than the field of economics because ...

Because the historical record disagrees with their predictions as relayed by you.

as I documented with my link.

 

[Redfish]

The Cambridge police were doing their job. If the professor had been white it would never have made the news.

The president of the USA should not be taking sides in a local case, especially when he does not have all of the facts.

Would the son of a black president be a thug on drugs looking for trouble? is that what you and Obama are saying?

How is creating racial tension, "change for the better" ?

Yeah, and AFTER he showed them his ID the Cambridge police still proceeded to arrest him. They were idiots.

Didn't say his son would BE like Martin, said he would LOOK like Martin.

He's not creating the tension. Dumb, under trained white cops are.

Total BS.

The cops are not creating racial tension, lawbreaking black thugs are, and Obama is enabling them by not calling them out

When has Obama said anything about the black on black crime in Chicago? Detroit? Philly? Baltimore?

Damn man, wake up. Obama helped create ISIS and BLM. He should be impeached, and yet you and fools like you continue to worship him. pathetic.

 

[kaz]

People are suffering because the hysterical fear crowd has decided you want to keep blacksmiths and live in an agrarian culture like we did 100 years ago. You fear change and think America can't compete on a level paying field. You're wrong, we are very good at it.

Actually, the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.

But, I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.

The problem is the politicians you are empowering to strangle the goose that laid the golden egg, capitalism. And the heart of capitalism is free trade.

America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

Your constant and dramatic use of buzz words lends itself to very powerful rhetoric.

But is it not factual.

Nor lending itself to making rational arguments or logical explanations.

Corporate America doesn't need you to shelter us. We need you to stay out of the way.

Yes, I've covered the fact that you have managed to adjust to making money despite our inability to compete. That is all well and good for you. But Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

Shit flows downstream.

Wow. Thanks. So if I position myself downstream from you I can get shit? Gee... Thanks. for the tip.

You are hurting yourself more than us.

Nope. We are hurting now while you are benefiting. We want to change that.

We'll figure out a way to take care of ourselves, we always do

Your recent performance does not lend itself to bragging. Making the mental leap to take advantage of cheap Third World Labor to cut costs is not exactly an Act of Genius.

. As you observed, we aren't figuring out a way to take care of the rest of you who are doing this to yourselves and want Trump to double down on the stupidity

We aren't asking you to take care of us. We want to craft American Trade Policy to benefit the US and Americans.


We figure you will adjust one way or another to this.

You're a Marxist, I got it. And you're not an interesting one. Just endless hysterical fear and government is the solution to all our problems. Sure they are ...

You addressed none of my points.

Thus they all stand.


1. the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.


2. I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

3. The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.


4. America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

5. Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

You're a Marxist swilling Democrat, you're boring.

Let's start with this. You know more about economics than the field of economics because ...

Because the historical record disagrees with their predictions as relayed by you.

as I documented with my link.

And how do you know the historical record disagrees with them? Lawyers told you?

 

[Correll]

Actually, the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.

But, I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.





America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

Your constant and dramatic use of buzz words lends itself to very powerful rhetoric.

But is it not factual.

Nor lending itself to making rational arguments or logical explanations.


Yes, I've covered the fact that you have managed to adjust to making money despite our inability to compete. That is all well and good for you. But Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

Wow. Thanks. So if I position myself downstream from you I can get shit? Gee... Thanks. for the tip.

Nope. We are hurting now while you are benefiting. We want to change that.

Your recent performance does not lend itself to bragging. Making the mental leap to take advantage of cheap Third World Labor to cut costs is not exactly an Act of Genius.


We aren't asking you to take care of us. We want to craft American Trade Policy to benefit the US and Americans.


We figure you will adjust one way or another to this.

You're a Marxist, I got it. And you're not an interesting one. Just endless hysterical fear and government is the solution to all our problems. Sure they are ...

You addressed none of my points.

Thus they all stand.


1. the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.


2. I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

3. The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.


4. America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

5. Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

You're a Marxist swilling Democrat, you're boring.

Let's start with this. You know more about economics than the field of economics because ...

Because the historical record disagrees with their predictions as relayed by you.

as I documented with my link.

And how do you know the historical record disagrees with them? Lawyers told you?

Here is a link to a article on the history of tariffs.

As you can see, high tariffs were the norm and were present during the many of the periods of rapid growth.

 

[kaz]

You're a Marxist, I got it. And you're not an interesting one. Just endless hysterical fear and government is the solution to all our problems. Sure they are ...

You addressed none of my points.

Thus they all stand.


1. the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.


2. I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

3. The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.


4. America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

5. Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

You're a Marxist swilling Democrat, you're boring.

Let's start with this. You know more about economics than the field of economics because ...

Because the historical record disagrees with their predictions as relayed by you.

as I documented with my link.

And how do you know the historical record disagrees with them? Lawyers told you?

Here is a link to a article on the history of tariffs.

As you can see, high tariffs were the norm and were present during the many of the periods of rapid growth.

Logical fallacy of the single cause as well as cause and effect. The question before we proceed was how you know you know more than economists about economics. Both my education and business experience tells me they are right. Microeconomics is based on humans acting in their own self interest, which we do, and macroeconomics is how when you take a system of self interested people markets evolve. Everything in my experience backed up what I learned in school.

What was your epiphany that OMG, they are wrong and you are right? You need to share the source of that insight to convince me, not just keep repeating that you do

 

[Correll]

You addressed none of my points.

Thus they all stand.


1. the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.


2. I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

3. The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.


4. America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

5. Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

You're a Marxist swilling Democrat, you're boring.

Let's start with this. You know more about economics than the field of economics because ...

Because the historical record disagrees with their predictions as relayed by you.

as I documented with my link.

And how do you know the historical record disagrees with them? Lawyers told you?

Here is a link to a article on the history of tariffs.

As you can see, high tariffs were the norm and were present during the many of the periods of rapid growth.

Logical fallacy of the single cause as well as cause and effect. The question before we proceed was how you know you know more than economists about economics. Both my education and business experience tells me they are right. Microeconomics is based on humans acting in their own self interest, which we do, and macroeconomics is how when you take a system of self interested people markets evolve. Everything in my experience backed up what I learned in school.

What was your epiphany that OMG, they are wrong and you are right? You need to share the source of that insight to convince me, not just keep repeating that you do

Except that I am not the one arguing that tariffs are the single cause that will lead to economic growth and better jobs.

You are the one arguing that a single cause, ie tariffs, will cause lack of economic growth and fewer jobs.

And the fact that you are focused on finding excuses to dismiss my case, rather then defend yours based on it's merits is STILL the Logical Fallacy of Appeal to Authority.

Have you considered how your financial and emotional investment in this issue could be coloring your perception of it?

 

[kaz]

You're a Marxist swilling Democrat, you're boring.

Let's start with this. You know more about economics than the field of economics because ...

Because the historical record disagrees with their predictions as relayed by you.

as I documented with my link.

And how do you know the historical record disagrees with them? Lawyers told you?

Here is a link to a article on the history of tariffs.

As you can see, high tariffs were the norm and were present during the many of the periods of rapid growth.

Logical fallacy of the single cause as well as cause and effect. The question before we proceed was how you know you know more than economists about economics. Both my education and business experience tells me they are right. Microeconomics is based on humans acting in their own self interest, which we do, and macroeconomics is how when you take a system of self interested people markets evolve. Everything in my experience backed up what I learned in school.

What was your epiphany that OMG, they are wrong and you are right? You need to share the source of that insight to convince me, not just keep repeating that you do

Except that I am not the one arguing that tariffs are the single cause that will lead to economic growth and better jobs.

You are the one arguing that a single cause, ie tariffs, will cause lack of economic growth and fewer jobs.

And the fact that you are focused on finding excuses to dismiss my case, rather then defend yours based on it's merits is STILL the Logical Fallacy of Appeal to Authority.

Have you considered how your financial and emotional investment in this issue could be coloring your perception of it?

Gotcha. It's only my "financial and emotional investment" that keeps me from seeing that you do in fact know more than economists about the economy, even though you can't explain how you know that.

So, how do you know that? How do you know that you know more than economists about the economy? And BTW, they have seen all those charts ...

 

[Correll]

Because the historical record disagrees with their predictions as relayed by you.

as I documented with my link.

And how do you know the historical record disagrees with them? Lawyers told you?

Here is a link to a article on the history of tariffs.

As you can see, high tariffs were the norm and were present during the many of the periods of rapid growth.

Logical fallacy of the single cause as well as cause and effect. The question before we proceed was how you know you know more than economists about economics. Both my education and business experience tells me they are right. Microeconomics is based on humans acting in their own self interest, which we do, and macroeconomics is how when you take a system of self interested people markets evolve. Everything in my experience backed up what I learned in school.

What was your epiphany that OMG, they are wrong and you are right? You need to share the source of that insight to convince me, not just keep repeating that you do

Except that I am not the one arguing that tariffs are the single cause that will lead to economic growth and better jobs.

You are the one arguing that a single cause, ie tariffs, will cause lack of economic growth and fewer jobs.

And the fact that you are focused on finding excuses to dismiss my case, rather then defend yours based on it's merits is STILL the Logical Fallacy of Appeal to Authority.

Have you considered how your financial and emotional investment in this issue could be coloring your perception of it?

Gotcha. It's only my "financial and emotional investment" that keeps me from seeing that you do in fact know more than economists about the economy, even though you can't explain how you know that.

Which is not at all what I said. YOu are conflating two separate points to make a strawman to attack.

And responding to neither of them.

And still, instead of discussing the topic, you are spending your time looking for rationalizations to NOT defend your position based on it's merits.

So, how do you know that? How do you know that you know more than economists about the economy? And BTW, they have seen all those charts ...

How do I know what?

That our economy, which you claimed was made number one by Free Trade, actually became number one during a period of high tariffs?

It is an historical fact, which I have supported with a footnoted article with historical statistics.

I know that that contradicts what you claimed would happen in a high tariff environment.


You have done nothing to support your various claims other than Appeal to Authority, citing both yourself and unnamed economists.

Oh, and lots of buzzwords and calling into doubt my credibility to speak on the matter.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You're a Marxist, I got it. And you're not an interesting one. Just endless hysterical fear and government is the solution to all our problems. Sure they are ...

You addressed none of my points.

Thus they all stand.


1. the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.


2. I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

3. The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.


4. America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

5. Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

You're a Marxist swilling Democrat, you're boring.

Let's start with this. You know more about economics than the field of economics because ...

Because the historical record disagrees with their predictions as relayed by you.

as I documented with my link.

And how do you know the historical record disagrees with them? Lawyers told you?

Here is a link to a article on the history of tariffs.

As you can see, high tariffs were the norm and were present during the many of the periods of rapid growth.

You total ignorant old goat...

This is not the year 1850 or 1920, it is god damn 2016...we have the fucking internet now, the rest of the world has caught up, we live in a global economy and no matter how you cry about it we are not having trade wars.

 

[Correll]

You addressed none of my points.

Thus they all stand.


1. the Free Traders have had their way for the last 40 years, so the suffering that is going on has nothing to do with those who are calling for a new policy.


2. I note that you admit that people are suffering. This is an important concession on your part, and I applaud your honesty.

3. The massive and ever growing Trade Deficits prove that America can't compete on whatever it is we have now or whatever you want to call it.


4. America was a capitalistic nation from the beginning though the late 1700s, all the 1800s, and 1900s, despite having high tariffs for the majority of that time.

5. Trade Policy is about serving the interests of America as a whole and as many individual Americans as possible.

Not just you.

You're a Marxist swilling Democrat, you're boring.

Let's start with this. You know more about economics than the field of economics because ...

Because the historical record disagrees with their predictions as relayed by you.

as I documented with my link.

And how do you know the historical record disagrees with them? Lawyers told you?

Here is a link to a article on the history of tariffs.

As you can see, high tariffs were the norm and were present during the many of the periods of rapid growth.

You total ignorant old goat...

This is not the year 1850 or 1920, it is god damn 2016...we have the fucking internet now, the rest of the world has caught up, we live in a global economy and no matter how you cry about it we are not having trade wars.

REally?


Value-added tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Because exports are generally zero-rated (and VAT refunded or offset against other taxes), this is often where VAT fraud occurs. In Europe, the main source of problems is called carousel fraud.[citation needed] This kind of fraud originated in the 1970s in the Benelux countries. Today, VAT fraud is a major problem in the UK.[57] There are also similar fraud possibilities inside a country. To avoid this, in some countries like Sweden, the major owner of a limited company is personally responsible for taxes.[56]

Under a sales tax system, only businesses selling to the end-user are required to collect tax and bear the accounting cost of collecting the tax. Under VAT, however, manufacturers and wholesale companies also have to hire accountants and incur accounting expenses to handle the additional paperwork required for collecting VAT, increasing overhead costs that in turn get incorporated into the cost of the item, possibly creating a cascading effect of higher prices throughout the chain of production. Manufacturers and wholesalers have a choice of retaining less profits overall, or passing on the additional cost to their customers in the form of increased prices.

Many politicians and economists in the United States consider VAT taxation on US goods and VAT rebates for goods from other countries to be unfair practice. E.g. the American Manufacturing Trade Action Coalition claims that any rebates or special taxes on imported goods should not be allowed by the rules of the World Trade Organisation. AMTAC claims that so-called "border tax disadvantage" is the greatest contributing factor to the $5.8 trillion US current account deficit for the decade of the 2000s, and estimated this disadvantage to US producers and service providers to be $518 billion in 2008 alone. Some US politicians, such as congressman Bill Pascrell, are advocating either changing WTO rules relating to VAT or rebating VAT charged on US exporters by passing the Border Tax Equity Act.

National VAT taxes act as a tariff on imports and their exports are exempt from the VAT (Zero-rated)"

 

[Cecilie1200]

I just watched his speech and he never said a complete sentence without waving his arms and throwing in self serving comments before he completed it. The guy should really be in an insane asylum!.....And He's Very Ugly!

Sure, I can imagine him as President. Problem is, I can't imagine him as a GOOD President.