Sex Slave or Consenting Adult?

[Missourian]

Real rape is bad. Rape play that both consent to and both enjoy is good. Hurting people without their consent is bad. Hurting your lover (within sane limits) because they get sexual pleasure from the pain and so do you is good.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Never was much on philosophy, but I do love Shakespeare.

"Fair is foul, and foul is fair: Hover through the fog and filthy air"

Macbeth Act 1 Scene 1.

And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends, stol'n forth of holy writ;
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil.

Look down towards his feet; but that's a fable.
If thou be'st devil, I cannot kill thee.

Ever seen Kenneth Branagh play Iago with Laurence Fishburne as the Moor?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114057/​

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why don't you give me an example that, no matter how tenuous, has the slightest shred of the topic we are discussing.

Your example is of role playing, unless a role playing example involves being abducted, stripped naked, beaten, bound and raped, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic we are discussing.

And as I've said all along, if you as a woman don't see some wrong with along with fulfilling that fantasy, something is wrong with you too.

All things being sane, I see nothing wrong with two people acting out whatever fantasises they like. "Rape play" is very popular and most couples try it on. Pretend rape with a man you love and trust is a wholly different experience from actual rape.....I'm sure you know this.

I bet if you are honest, you have tried this form of sex play. Again, it is a question of degrees, and keeping all behavior sane.

You are out of your mind.

Oh, really? So you and your partner always do it in the dark, missionary position, without any dirty talk? Then I feel very sorry for you, and even more so for your partner.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, rapists DO..but everyone who started out having normal sex doesn't.

Every sadist, whether consensual or criminal, gleans enjoyment from others pain.

THAT is my point. Everyone who starts out having normal sex doesn't become a rapist. Only those who start out with those urges do. And everyone who starts out participating in BDSM doesn't because a criminal sexual sadist. Only those who start out with THOSE urges do.

Also, there is a very big difference between consensual S/M and pain.

All sadists start out with the urges...that's my point.

All sadists do NOT start out with the urge to force themselves on unwilling partners and cause harm.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Lemme give you a real life example. Boyfriend X and I had been together ages, and to make fun, we "pretended" to not know each other in a bar, where he "picked me up". We had a blast.

And yet, I have not taken up murdering people. Pretending via consent is not the same as forcing a stranger for real, Missourian.

Why don't you give me an example that, no matter how tenuous, has the slightest shred of the topic we are discussing.

Your example is of role playing, unless a role playing example involves being abducted, stripped naked, beaten, bound and raped, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic we are discussing.

And as I've said all along, if you as a woman don't see some wrong with along with fulfilling that fantasy, something is wrong with you too.

Do you know what a flogger is, Missourian? Many are made of very soft leather....deer hide is popular. Stroke the back with one, and it feels wonderful to some people. All sado-masochist play, at its very lowest degree, is sensation play.

Not any different from rubbing your lover with lotion, except more exciting. For many people, this is all they'll ever do. Some go further because they like it, and the bottom actually has red marks.

A few go so far, the bottom has black and blue marks.

Still, just different behaviors to satisfy the myriad forms human sexuality takes, and not necessarially problematic.

I've had professional back massages that hurt more than a flogging with deerhide does. Many bottoms liken a flogging to a deep-tissue massage, and say it's wonderful for loosening tense muscles.

 

[Madeline]

Never was much on philosophy, but I do love Shakespeare.

"Fair is foul, and foul is fair: Hover through the fog and filthy air"

Macbeth Act 1 Scene 1.

And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends, stol'n forth of holy writ;
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil.

Look down towards his feet; but that's a fable.
If thou be'st devil, I cannot kill thee.

Ever seen Kenneth Branagh play Iago with Laurence Fishburne as the Moor?

Othello (1995) - IMDb​

No, but that is a fabulous cast. Thankies for the reccomendation.

 

[JBeukema]

Most people in the community draw the line at "lasting physical harm". Basically, if it's going to involve a trip to the doctor, they avoid it. Scarification doesn't qualify - although it's viewed as extreme - because it doesn't actually inhibit your body's ability to function. Really, it's not any different from getting a tattoo. Amputation or bone-breaking or such would get one blacklisted in most BDSM communities, because you are not a "safe player".

I'd be okay with outlawing amputation and bone breaking. I'm not sure you can do either one without a grave risk of death...but even if, I still think they are so outre', 99% of all other adult consensual sexual behavior would be legal.

The one that gives me the most pause is breath play. Any cop and most military types prolly know how to cause unconsciousness but not death -- I'd imagine they all know at least how to do a choke hold. Most BDSM-related deaths resulting in homicide charges arise from breath play of one sort or another....and I hear teens are getting into this as well.

I think people should have to demonstrate aptitude at both the breath play and the revival, if one is needed, or else face homicide charges if the bottom dies, regardless of the bottom's consent.

And I dun think minors should be doing this AT ALL.

I agree on breath play, actually. My club recently had a debate about whether or not to allow it on the premises, and came down on the side of a rule prohibiting "any play to intentionally cause unconsciousness" and "no carotid artery play". Even if you don't hold it long enough to strangle someone, there's still the possibility of causing a stroke or heart attack.

We also have people on hand at all times with "first responder" CPR certifications.

Wait. I thought breath play always stopped before unconsciousness? If someone passes out, not only are you doing it wrong and oputting them at risk, but you've missed the target for maximum enjoyment...

At least every form of breath play I'm familiar with.

 

[JBeukema]

Prosecutors are paid to get convictions. They are manipulative and do whatever the can legally to present a case. They are under no obligation to do the right thing. They also enjoy inflamatory cases that draw attention to themselves as many of them aspire to higher public offices and use the publicity to their own advantage.

The same can be said of the defense.

True. But defense lawyers have only one client -- the accused. Prosecutors (are supposed to) serve the interests of justice of their entire communities, and have (additional, higher) different duties.

You know nothing about the American legal system. Ours is a moronic and adversarial system. I am in favor of reform. While the British system is also imperfect, it is better in some regards and has lessons to teach us.

 

[JBeukema]

Cecile, wouldn't cartorid play include thew most common form of 'choking', engaged in by very, very, very many people who don't even consider themselves members of the BD/SM, M/S, or T/B community?

 

[JBeukema]

Given that this is the internet I find that surprising. Then again I never heard of the things you were talking about.

Visual porn has zero appeal for me. True story....I have never seen 'net porn, except by accident.

What other porn is there besides visual? Do you just listen to people having sex and go for an eargasm?

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Best-American-Erotica-2006/dp/0743258525/ref=pd_sim_b_3]Amazon.com: The Best American Erotica 2006 (9780743258524): Susie Bright: Books[/ame]

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'd be okay with outlawing amputation and bone breaking. I'm not sure you can do either one without a grave risk of death...but even if, I still think they are so outre', 99% of all other adult consensual sexual behavior would be legal.

The one that gives me the most pause is breath play. Any cop and most military types prolly know how to cause unconsciousness but not death -- I'd imagine they all know at least how to do a choke hold. Most BDSM-related deaths resulting in homicide charges arise from breath play of one sort or another....and I hear teens are getting into this as well.

I think people should have to demonstrate aptitude at both the breath play and the revival, if one is needed, or else face homicide charges if the bottom dies, regardless of the bottom's consent.

And I dun think minors should be doing this AT ALL.

I agree on breath play, actually. My club recently had a debate about whether or not to allow it on the premises, and came down on the side of a rule prohibiting "any play to intentionally cause unconsciousness" and "no carotid artery play". Even if you don't hold it long enough to strangle someone, there's still the possibility of causing a stroke or heart attack.

We also have people on hand at all times with "first responder" CPR certifications.

Wait. I thought breath play always stopped before unconsciousness? If someone passes out, not only are you doing it wrong and oputting them at risk, but you've missed the target for maximum enjoyment...

At least every form of breath play I'm familiar with.

Apparently, if you restrict the breathing such that you pass out just as you are achieving orgasm, it heightens the orgasm. Of course, it also runs the risk of killing you. This is why you sometimes hear stories of the cops finding dead naked people who've hanged themselves. Personally, I'm perfectly happy with regular ol' normal-strength orgasms, thanks.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Cecile, wouldn't cartorid play include thew most common form of 'choking', engaged in by very, very, very many people who don't even consider themselves members of the BD/SM, M/S, or T/B community?

I couldn't tell you about that. All I know is that if your sex in any way involves choking, you're kinky by one standard or another.

 

[JBeukema]

I agree on breath play, actually. My club recently had a debate about whether or not to allow it on the premises, and came down on the side of a rule prohibiting "any play to intentionally cause unconsciousness" and "no carotid artery play". Even if you don't hold it long enough to strangle someone, there's still the possibility of causing a stroke or heart attack.

We also have people on hand at all times with "first responder" CPR certifications.

Wait. I thought breath play always stopped before unconsciousness? If someone passes out, not only are you doing it wrong and oputting them at risk, but you've missed the target for maximum enjoyment...

At least every form of breath play I'm familiar with.

Apparently, if you restrict the breathing such that you pass out just as you are achieving orgasm, it heightens the orgasm.

The way I've always done it, you let go just before they pass out, as they orgasm...

You enhance le petite morte and also combine the orgasm with the effect of oxygen rushing back into the brain...

What you describe is totally at odds with all I've ever even heard, let alone been involved in.

 

[JBeukema]

Cecile, wouldn't cartorid play include thew most common form of 'choking', engaged in by very, very, very many people who don't even consider themselves members of the BD/SM, M/S, or T/B community?

I couldn't tell you about that. All I know is that if your sex in any way involves choking, you're kinky by one standard or another.

the only chicks I've ever known who didn't enjoy 'choking' (blood choke, not breath) were those with psychological issues that lead them to feel extremely uncomfortable with any sense of being vulnerable- usually a result of past abuse.

Physiology and usually psychologically, women as a rule seem to enjoy it, whether they generally speak about it or not.

 

[asterism]

*unsubscribe*

 

[Cecilie1200]

Wait. I thought breath play always stopped before unconsciousness? If someone passes out, not only are you doing it wrong and oputting them at risk, but you've missed the target for maximum enjoyment...

At least every form of breath play I'm familiar with.

Apparently, if you restrict the breathing such that you pass out just as you are achieving orgasm, it heightens the orgasm.

The way I've always done it, you let go just before they pass out, as they orgasm...

You enhance le petite morte and also combine the orgasm with the effect of oxygen rushing back into the brain...

What you describe is totally at odds with all I've ever even heard, let alone been involved in.

Hey, don't look at me. Like I said, I'd rather settle for normal orgasms and keep breathing, thanks.

 

[Madeline]

I'd be okay with outlawing amputation and bone breaking. I'm not sure you can do either one without a grave risk of death...but even if, I still think they are so outre', 99% of all other adult consensual sexual behavior would be legal.

The one that gives me the most pause is breath play. Any cop and most military types prolly know how to cause unconsciousness but not death -- I'd imagine they all know at least how to do a choke hold. Most BDSM-related deaths resulting in homicide charges arise from breath play of one sort or another....and I hear teens are getting into this as well.

I think people should have to demonstrate aptitude at both the breath play and the revival, if one is needed, or else face homicide charges if the bottom dies, regardless of the bottom's consent.

And I dun think minors should be doing this AT ALL.

I agree on breath play, actually. My club recently had a debate about whether or not to allow it on the premises, and came down on the side of a rule prohibiting "any play to intentionally cause unconsciousness" and "no carotid artery play". Even if you don't hold it long enough to strangle someone, there's still the possibility of causing a stroke or heart attack.

We also have people on hand at all times with "first responder" CPR certifications.

Wait. I thought breath play always stopped before unconsciousness? If someone passes out, not only are you doing it wrong and oputting them at risk, but you've missed the target for maximum enjoyment...

At least every form of breath play I'm familiar with.

Care for a link? Read and learn; I have zero hesitation reccommending this material.....

Jay Wiseman Breath Play Essays Main Page

 

[Madeline]

The same can be said of the defense.

True. But defense lawyers have only one client -- the accused. Prosecutors (are supposed to) serve the interests of justice of their entire communities, and have (additional, higher) different duties.

You know nothing about the American legal system. Ours is a moronic and adversarial system. I am in favor of reform. While the British system is also imperfect, it is better in some regards and has lessons to teach us.

The three bars I belong to would be astounded to learn "I know nothing about the American legal system", JB. So would all the clients I have represented in the past 20 or so years.

Ordinarially I do not mind you talking out of your ass, but I care about the disinformation peddled on this topic; you obviously know little, so try to avoid feigning expertise, please?

 

[Madeline]

Wait. I thought breath play always stopped before unconsciousness? If someone passes out, not only are you doing it wrong and oputting them at risk, but you've missed the target for maximum enjoyment...

At least every form of breath play I'm familiar with.

Apparently, if you restrict the breathing such that you pass out just as you are achieving orgasm, it heightens the orgasm.

The way I've always done it, you let go just before they pass out, as they orgasm...

You enhance le petite morte and also combine the orgasm with the effect of oxygen rushing back into the brain...

What you describe is totally at odds with all I've ever even heard, let alone been involved in.

JB, there is absolutely nothing that chaps my ass more than peddling bullshit about breath play on the internet. You may not be aware, but this has caught on among American teens.

The Choking Game - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

BTW, as an aside: Mommies and Daddies, this is being peddled to kids in part as a form of abstinence. TALK to your child, especially one in middle or high school.

The physiology of the body before, during and after unconsciousness is a complex medical matter and NOT NOT NOT suitable for do-it-yourself posts on USMB. Can I say "irresponsible" enough?

If you wish more information, start here.....

Jay Wiseman Breath Play Essays Main Page

Sadly, the author gathered some of his medical knowledge preparing to be an expert witness in homicide cases brought after the death of the bottom during breath play. This is an EXTREMELY risky sexual behavior and MOST people should go nowhere near it.

In short, STFU.

 

[Madeline]

Cecile, wouldn't cartorid play include thew most common form of 'choking', engaged in by very, very, very many people who don't even consider themselves members of the BD/SM, M/S, or T/B community?

I couldn't tell you about that. All I know is that if your sex in any way involves choking, you're kinky by one standard or another.

the only chicks I've ever known who didn't enjoy 'choking' (blood choke, not breath) were those with psychological issues that lead them to feel extremely uncomfortable with any sense of being vulnerable- usually a result of past abuse.

Physiology and usually psychologically, women as a rule seem to enjoy it, whether they generally speak about it or not.

What utter bullshit. Bottoms who enjoy breath play are rare; the average bottom will never engage in any form of this behavior. 99% of this play occurs between VERY committed couples and is done to demonstrate trust, not enhance orgasm.

Jesus H. Christ, now bottoms who reject breath play have "issues"? You are a lying, irresponsible, self-important hack.

 

[Sunni Man]

Cecile, wouldn't cartorid play include thew most common form of 'choking', engaged in by very, very, very many people who don't even consider themselves members of the BD/SM, M/S, or T/B community?

I couldn't tell you about that. All I know is that if your sex in any way involves choking, you're kinky by one standard or another.

the only chicks I've ever known who didn't enjoy 'choking' (blood choke, not breath) were those with psychological issues that lead them to feel extremely uncomfortable with any sense of being vulnerable- usually a result of past abuse.

Physiology and usually psychologically, women as a rule seem to enjoy it, whether they generally speak about it or not.

Holy crap!!!

I always knew that you were some kind of a pervert.

But I just didn't know what kind..

You are one SICK, SICK, SICK individual and need to be locked up!!!