Sex Slave or Consenting Adult?

[Toro]

And you should read the examples I have provided. The bottom in the OP wasn't "in control". In the indictment the victim states repeatedly that the defendant regularly ignored the "safe word" and threatened to bury her alive if she tried to leave. Then he showed her a video depicting the exact methodology with which he planned the burial.

That's rape then, right? That's no different than a woman changing her mind about having intercourse with a man then changing her mind, but the man going ahead anyways.

 

[Madeline]

Maddy, I find that this is a case of not using common sense.

It takes a special kind of sick person to receive pleasure and sexual gratification from the pain and humiliation of another human being, "consensual" or otherwise.

Think it through...read the examples I posted.

Lemme give you a real life example. Boyfriend X and I had been together ages, and to make fun, we "pretended" to not know each other in a bar, where he "picked me up". We had a blast.

And yet, I have not taken up murdering people. Pretending via consent is not the same as forcing a stranger for real, Missourian.

Why don't you give me an example that, no matter how tenuous, has the slightest shred of the topic we are discussing.

Your example is of role playing, unless a role playing example involves being abducted, stripped naked, beaten, bound and raped, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic we are discussing.

And as I've said all along, if you as a woman don't see some wrong with along with fulfilling that fantasy, something is wrong with you too.

Do you know what a flogger is, Missourian? Many are made of very soft leather....deer hide is popular. Stroke the back with one, and it feels wonderful to some people. All sado-masochist play, at its very lowest degree, is sensation play.

Not any different from rubbing your lover with lotion, except more exciting. For many people, this is all they'll ever do. Some go further because they like it, and the bottom actually has red marks.

A few go so far, the bottom has black and blue marks.

Still, just different behaviors to satisfy the myriad forms human sexuality takes, and not necessarially problematic.

 

[Madeline]

And you should read the examples I have provided. The bottom in the OP wasn't "in control". In the indictment the victim states repeatedly that the defendant regularly ignored the "safe word" and threatened to bury her alive if she tried to leave. Then he showed her a video depicting the exact methodology with which he planned the burial.

That's rape then, right? That's no different than a woman changing her mind about having intercourse with a man then changing her mind, but the man going ahead anyways.

100% correct.

 

[Madeline]

Why don't you give me an example that, no matter how tenuous, has the slightest shred of the topic we are discussing.

Your example is of role playing, unless a role playing example involves being abducted, stripped naked, beaten, bound and raped, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic we are discussing.

And as I've said all along, if you as a woman don't see some wrong with along with fulfilling that fantasy, something is wrong with you too.

All things being sane, I see nothing wrong with two people acting out whatever fantasises they like. "Rape play" is very popular and most couples try it on. Pretend rape with a man you love and trust is a wholly different experience from actual rape.....I'm sure you know this.

I bet if you are honest, you have tried this form of sex play. Again, it is a question of degrees, and keeping all behavior sane.

You are out of your mind.

Really? Hollywood dun think so. "9 1/2 Weeks"; "The Postman Always Rings Twice"; "Last Tango In Paris"...etc.

Compare the play rape scenes in those movies to the actual rape scene in "The Accused".

Totally different, are they not?

 

[Missourian]

And you should read the examples I have provided. The bottom in the OP wasn't "in control". In the indictment the victim states repeatedly that the defendant regularly ignored the "safe word" and threatened to bury her alive if she tried to leave. Then he showed her a video depicting the exact methodology with which he planned the burial.

That's rape then, right? That's no different than a woman changing her mind about having intercourse with a man then changing her mind, but the man going ahead anyways.

Do you think you can win that case?

If you were the woman involved, would you even try?

Be realistic...not theoretical.

 

[Madeline]

No, rapists DO..but everyone who started out having normal sex doesn't.

Every sadist, whether consensual or criminal, gleans enjoyment from others pain.

The quality of the enjoyment a sadist gets from inflicting pain on a masochist is entirely different from the quality of the interaction between a sadist and a non-willing, non-masochist. I encourage you to read some of the article I linked; for starters, the bottom always controls the play, completely.

I think you are imagining the Spanish Inquisition and it just is not like that.

And you should read the examples I have provided. The bottom in the OP wasn't "in control". In the indictment the victim states repeatedly that the defendant regularly ignored the "safe word" and threatened to bury her alive if she tried to leave. Then he showed her a video depicting the exact methodology with which he planned the burial.

WTF are you reading? I have seen nothing about burial alive in the article linked in the Op. Obviously, threats of murder negate consent.

 

[Missourian]

All things being sane, I see nothing wrong with two people acting out whatever fantasises they like. "Rape play" is very popular and most couples try it on. Pretend rape with a man you love and trust is a wholly different experience from actual rape.....I'm sure you know this.

I bet if you are honest, you have tried this form of sex play. Again, it is a question of degrees, and keeping all behavior sane.

You are out of your mind.

Really? Hollywood dun think so. "9 1/2 Weeks"; "The Postman Always Rings Twice"; "Last Tango In Paris"...etc.

Compare the play rape scenes in those movies to the actual rape scene in "The Accused".

Totally different, are they not?

It was in a movie.

In Hollywood.

That's wonderful, a fine logical argument...thanks for sharing.

 

[Missourian]

The quality of the enjoyment a sadist gets from inflicting pain on a masochist is entirely different from the quality of the interaction between a sadist and a non-willing, non-masochist. I encourage you to read some of the article I linked; for starters, the bottom always controls the play, completely.

I think you are imagining the Spanish Inquisition and it just is not like that.

And you should read the examples I have provided. The bottom in the OP wasn't "in control". In the indictment the victim states repeatedly that the defendant regularly ignored the "safe word" and threatened to bury her alive if she tried to leave. Then he showed her a video depicting the exact methodology with which he planned the burial.

WTF are you reading? I have seen nothing about burial alive in the article linked in the Op. Obviously, threats of murder negate consent.

Not that it is important, but I posted the link to the indictment many posts ago.

Here it is again.

Bagley Indictment

 

[Toro]

All sadists start out with the urges...that's my point.

Of course they do. But one can also say

"All rapists start out with urges to have intercourse with a woman."

But what matters is consent.

If a woman consents to have sex with a man, that does not give the man the right to have sex with her in any manner he wishes for as long as he wishes. In the examples you gave earlier, simply because a submissive gives consent to a dominant to dominate does not give the dominant the right to dominate in any way he/she wishes.

 

[Madeline]

You are out of your mind.

Really? Hollywood dun think so. "9 1/2 Weeks"; "The Postman Always Rings Twice"; "Last Tango In Paris"...etc.

Compare the play rape scenes in those movies to the actual rape scene in "The Accused".

Totally different, are they not?

It was in a movie.

In Hollywood.

That's wonderful, a fine logical argument...thanks for sharing.

This is not a porn site, Missourian. There are limits to how graphic I can be. Again, I urge you to read....your reaction is understandable, but based on faulty assumptions.

 

[Missourian]

I'm done.

I have been defeated by insanity.

Rape is wrong...even fantasy rape. If your man fantasizes about raping women, there is something very, very wrong with him.

If a man enjoys hurting other people, and humiliating other people sexually, there is something wrong with him.


Run far far away.

 

[Missourian]

All sadists start out with the urges...that's my point.

Of course they do. But one can also say

"All rapists start out with urges to have intercourse with a woman."

But what matters is consent.

If a woman consents to have sex with a man, that does not give the man the right to have sex with her in any manner he wishes for as long as he wishes. In the examples you gave earlier, simply because a submissive gives consent to a dominant to dominate does not give the dominant the right to dominate in any way he/she wishes.

But very few men start out with the urge to take women by force.

That's the big difference in the analogy.

 

[Madeline]

All sadists start out with the urges...that's my point.

Of course they do. But one can also say

"All rapists start out with urges to have intercourse with a woman."

But what matters is consent.

If a woman consents to have sex with a man, that does not give the man the right to have sex with her in any manner he wishes for as long as he wishes. In the examples you gave earlier, simply because a submissive gives consent to a dominant to dominate does not give the dominant the right to dominate in any way he/she wishes.

But very few men start out with the urge to take women by force.

That's the big difference in the analogy.

Power rapists prolly do, Missourian. Date rapists, reassurance rapists...mebbe not. But it is unlikely a dyed-in-the-wool power rapist had any consensual sex fantasies even in middle school.

That's a very deeply embedded pathology.

 

[Toro]

All sadists start out with the urges...that's my point.

Of course they do. But one can also say

"All rapists start out with urges to have intercourse with a woman."

But what matters is consent.

If a woman consents to have sex with a man, that does not give the man the right to have sex with her in any manner he wishes for as long as he wishes. In the examples you gave earlier, simply because a submissive gives consent to a dominant to dominate does not give the dominant the right to dominate in any way he/she wishes.

But very few men start out with the urge to take women by force.

That's the big difference in the analogy.

Sure.

And very few in the BDSM community want to hurt others against their will.

That's the point.

 

[Madeline]

I'm done.

I have been defeated by insanity.

Rape is wrong...even fantasy rape. If your man fantasizes about raping women, there is something very, very wrong with him.

If a man enjoys hurting other people, and humiliating other people sexually, there is something wrong with him.

Run far far away.

Fantasy =/= reality.

But I am sorry we scared you, and I hope you will look further when you feel up to it.

 

[Missourian]

I'm done.

I have been defeated by insanity.

Rape is wrong...even fantasy rape. If your man fantasizes about raping women, there is something very, very wrong with him.

If a man enjoys hurting other people, and humiliating other people sexually, there is something wrong with him.

Run far far away.

Fantasy =/= reality.

But I am sorry we scared you, and I hope you will look further when you feel up to it.

No fear, just sadness.

I'll just sulk over here in my fantasy world where rape is wrong and men who enjoy hurting women for sexual pleasure are bad.

 

[Madeline]

I'm done.

I have been defeated by insanity.

Rape is wrong...even fantasy rape. If your man fantasizes about raping women, there is something very, very wrong with him.

If a man enjoys hurting other people, and humiliating other people sexually, there is something wrong with him.

Run far far away.

Fantasy =/= reality.

But I am sorry we scared you, and I hope you will look further when you feel up to it.

No fear, just sadness.

I'll just sulk over here in my fantasy world where rape is wrong and people who enjoy hurting others for there sexual enjoyment are bad.

Real rape is bad. Rape play that both consent to and both enjoy is good. Hurting people without their consent is bad. Hurting your lover (within sane limits) because they get sexual pleasure from the pain and so do you is good.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

 

[Missourian]

Fantasy =/= reality.

But I am sorry we scared you, and I hope you will look further when you feel up to it.

No fear, just sadness.

I'll just sulk over here in my fantasy world where rape is wrong and people who enjoy hurting others for there sexual enjoyment are bad.

Real rape is bad. Rape play that both consent to and both enjoy is good. Hurting people without their consent is bad. Hurting your lover (within sane limits) because they get sexual pleasure from the pain and so do you is good.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Never was much on philosophy, but I do love Shakespeare.



Retort: "Fair is foul, and foul is fair: Hover through the fog and filthy air"

Macbeth Act 1 Scene 1.

 

[Madeline]

No fear, just sadness.

I'll just sulk over here in my fantasy world where rape is wrong and people who enjoy hurting others for there sexual enjoyment are bad.

Real rape is bad. Rape play that both consent to and both enjoy is good. Hurting people without their consent is bad. Hurting your lover (within sane limits) because they get sexual pleasure from the pain and so do you is good.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Never was much on philosophy, but I do love Shakespeare.

"Fair is foul, and foul is fair: Hover through the fog and filthy air"

Macbeth Act 1 Scene 1.

And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends, stol'n forth of holy writ;
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil.

 

[Samson]

Really? Hollywood dun think so. "9 1/2 Weeks"; "The Postman Always Rings Twice"; "Last Tango In Paris"...etc.

Compare the play rape scenes in those movies to the actual rape scene in "The Accused".

Totally different, are they not?

It was in a movie.

In Hollywood.

That's wonderful, a fine logical argument...thanks for sharing.

This is not a porn site, Missourian. There are limits to how graphic I can be. Again, I urge you to read....your reaction is understandable, but based on faulty assumptions.

Yeah, be really careful with te octopii.