Shooting at muslim cartoon event?

[emilynghiem]

Uhm the Muzzies started it, fool

Who started the cartoon event?

A collection of free citizens in a free society exercising their 1st Amendment freedoms...........and the assholes who tried to shoot it up may very likely have been muslim terrorists.......so they started the violence.......and good Texas cops ended it......

So those free citizens disrespecting the religion of muslims started it then by holding a needless cartoon event about their prophet. Glad you agree.

Sorry moron....you don't get to kill people who draw cartoons...if you try to kill people who draw cartoons you are the asshole, not the cartoonists.......they should learn the Christian doctrine of turning the other cheek.......

Has nothing to do with the point. The christians that were inciting the muslim nutcases should have turned the other cheek and not held an event to piss them off.

1. RE Who started the Event? Pam Geller is not from Texas.
Texas was also the site for a big Muslim event in Garland that drew protests as well.
Are you going to blame Texas for allowing Free Speech for Muslims as well?

2. Are you going to blame the victims for inciting the shooting?
Would you blame a woman for "dressing provocatively" for getting rape kidnapped or killed
for drawing attention to herself that way?

Asclepias if people have a verbal disagreement over a verbal provocation, then resolve it verbally.
If you are physically attacked, you have the right to defense physically.

Verbal : Verbal
: :
Physical : Physical

If people need to be educated in civil law and criminal law in order not to violate laws,
that would be a sensible way to encourage prevention of crime, through law enforcement by education and training.
It would likely reduce the incidence of police violence if everyone agreed what the laws were, what is due process,
and what is and what is not legal response to a conflict or provocation.

Where you could argue thare is discrimination, Asclepias
until all people have EQUAL knowledge and access to law and education on these rights and due process and enforcement,
then the minorities without knowledge do have a disparity in unequal protection and greater likelihood of suffering crime.

So education is the key, and I think all sides agree with that, whether left or right, liberal or conservative, religious or secular.

 

[emilynghiem]

Here is a link to the cartoon that actually won the contest....it also has an image of a National Endowment for the Arts called "Piss Christ" that was an award winner....let's see who chops off whose head over this....

Blog The Muhammad cartoon that won the Draw Muhammad contest

The progs are fine with "piss christ", it's the pedophile Muslim they worry about

Christians dont seem to be as committed as Muslims when it comes to their prophet of choice. Matter of fact I dont recall a rule saying you cant draw Jesus.

Dear Asclepias
Prolife Extremists have been known to kill doctors and attack clinics because they believe abortion is murder.
Are you going to say that allowing the choice of abortion, or actually providing abortion procedures, is provoking attacks?

So this should stop in order not to incite prolife attackers?

 

[emilynghiem]

I don't, but Muslims do. And those that did the pictures knew they would. That's why they had a sniper there to kill them. But that's only going to bring more Muslims killing christians in Texass. Muslims don't mind dying when they fight for their religion, that's why Israel is still going on 70 years later.

These idiots think disrespecting peoples religion is somehow a good thing. Fucking imbeciles.

The two idiots thought it was a good thing to go in and kill people who drew some cartoons......Fucking assholes.....

I agree but that doesnt really address the provocation that caused this. Why disrespect someones religion and put people in harms way?

Because sometimes free people do rude things......and you have to accept it....peacefully, and then either be rude back or be polite back....that is what happens in a free society....that is also why muslim countries are trapped in poverty and hopelessness today......they don't tolerate each other.......and others....

Youre missing the point. I have a cartoon event to make fun of mohammad. The WTC gets leveled. Was it worth being rude? Wouldnt it be more intelligent and evolved not to disrespect (or be rude to) a religion just because you can?

Dear Asclepias
See my other post about closing abortion clinics in order not to disrespect religion and to dissuade attacks.

If Christians are held to due process, and required to change laws that offend their beliefs,
using CIVIL and legal means to reform or remove the offending legislation as with the Hobby Lobby ruling,
why not hold Muslims to the same Constitutional standards. If they live in America and consent to follow the laws?

 

[emilynghiem]

Respect is not kowtowing. When you grow up you may learn that.

Once the entire Muslim population of the world starts showing respect for non-Muslims, and stops trying to murder non-Muslims, then they'll begin to see the respect you believe they should have.
Until then, they deserve the push back that has been directed at them

You are decidedly uninformed about history I see. Figures though. You have some idiotic opinions about a lot of subjects as I have witnessed.

Fuck "history"
These Islamists aren't being repressed. They are on the offensive.
Save the "well Christians did......." bullshit.
Try to stay in THIS century

I don't think that's the point.

Posted it before, posting it again -- two yahoos with guns in Dullass Texas don't represent a world religion of a billion people any more than McVeigh and Nichols did. You either apply Composition Fallacy to both, or to neither. You don't get to switch it on here, switch it off there, depending on what serves a bigotry agenda.

mcveigh and nichols didn't commit their act on religious grounds...

I think extreme separatist and anti-govt counts as a political beliefs. So yes that becomes religious, even though it is not Christian Constitutionalism; the same way Jihadism is its own political religion, that is NOT the same as the true Islam faith that respect Christianity as part of its core. Zionists, Armaggeddonists, and Jihadists are very similar as political religions that worship Retributive Justice or the spirit of Antichrist. These are the opposite of Christian beliefs, but still religions..

 

[emilynghiem]

Respect is not kowtowing. When you grow up you may learn that.

Once the entire Muslim population of the world starts showing respect for non-Muslims, and stops trying to murder non-Muslims, then they'll begin to see the respect you believe they should have.
Until then, they deserve the push back that has been directed at them

You are decidedly uninformed about history I see. Figures though. You have some idiotic opinions about a lot of subjects as I have witnessed.

Fuck "history"
These Islamists aren't being repressed. They are on the offensive.
Save the "well Christians did......." bullshit.
Try to stay in THIS century

I don't think that's the point.

Posted it before, posting it again -- two yahoos with guns in Dullass Texas don't represent a world religion of a billion people any more than McVeigh and Nichols did. You either apply Composition Fallacy to both, or to neither. You don't get to switch it on here, switch it off there, depending on what serves a bigotry agenda.

Yes, I agree, there's a peaceful Islam.
I'm not hearing them condemn this kinda shit, tho.
Their silence sounds like approval

These yahoos follow the letter of the Quran where Allah loves the warrior

Dear hortysir I think that's where we make mistakes, especially with media bias that profits off political division.
1. there are many prolife people against abortion but are prochoice in terms of not banning it as illegal.
Just because you don't hear from these people, doesn't mean we're "proabortion".
I'm finding more and more people are against abortion, but believe in prochoice.
Since the media only gives us two options, that are painted as diametrically opposed,
then we don't necessarily hear from people who are both.

2. There are many liberals who believe in universal care and singlepayer who are OPPOSED to ACA mandates
that create a corporate middle man with insurance.

We don't hear from the opponents from the left, because the right has cornered the market and media,
shouting and drowning out everyone else with their protests.

3. Same with rightwing conservatives and Republicans who were vehemently OPPOSED to Bush and
the Patriot Act and War.

Just because we don't hear this other opposition in the media
doesn't mean they don't exist. It's just not convenient and doesn't come off well in the media
like the rightwing/leftwing sound bytes that can stir up catfights and ratings with clearly divided sides.

Solutions don't sell well. People being reasonable and trying to resolve conflicts.
Hate mongering and race baiting sells well, and that's what you'll see painted in black and white in the media.

In real life, people are all over the gray scale and full color spectrum.
It's not just two sided black and white. There's always more going on, that the media can't cover in 30 seconds.

 

[emilynghiem]

[
Bullshit. I don't believe that line at all. They are having fun ridiculing and insulting an entire religion and 1.7 billion people. These Islamic 'cartoon contest' people are insensitive, self righteous loons. How about having a shitting on the Bible contest and see who can put as much of their own feces on the Bible? That would certain be meaningful right to free speech wouldn't it.

BTW, the right to free speech is a cultural issue: just because some cultures don't have it does not mean those cultures are wrong. Just because other cultures or religions are not like yours, that does not mean they are wrong.

When people insist that others must hold the same perspective and values as their own, they only show their ignorance and small mindedness.

Do you support the right of people to draw cartoons of the pervert Muhammad?

Yes, or no?

Uncensored2008 and Esmeralda
I would advise against, just like I advise people with extreme conflicting views of gay marriage not to conduct business together, in order to AVOID unresolveable confrontations and/or lawsuits.

But if people choose free expression that instigates conflicts,
I would offer conflict resolution to address the root cause of why they can't leave each other alone;
instead of waiting until conflicts escalate to try to address them.

I have utmost respect for Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR who seeks to open up dialogue and correct any such conflict.
He can only address and work out issues with people who ask.

So why not ask? There are many civil rights and Constitutional scholars and business leaders in the Muslim community I have met who are completely open to interaction and understanding to break down these barriers.

Perfectly peaceful, respectful law abiding citizens who do volunteer outreach just like Jewish and Christian congregations do, including collaborating with Christian and Jewish groups on community activities.

If anyone mentions "Dark Ages" it is not being able to distinguish the militant war-mongering Jihadists, Zionists and Armaggeddonists from the civilized Christians, Jewish and Muslims who follow secular govt and laws just like other citizens.

 

[Asclepias]

These idiots think disrespecting peoples religion is somehow a good thing. Fucking imbeciles.

The two idiots thought it was a good thing to go in and kill people who drew some cartoons......Fucking assholes.....

I agree but that doesnt really address the provocation that caused this. Why disrespect someones religion and put people in harms way?

Because sometimes free people do rude things......and you have to accept it....peacefully, and then either be rude back or be polite back....that is what happens in a free society....that is also why muslim countries are trapped in poverty and hopelessness today......they don't tolerate each other.......and others....

Youre missing the point. I have a cartoon event to make fun of mohammad. The WTC gets leveled. Was it worth being rude? Wouldnt it be more intelligent and evolved not to disrespect (or be rude to) a religion just because you can?

Dear Asclepias
See my other post about closing abortion clinics in order not to disrespect religion and to dissuade attacks.

If Christians are held to due process, and required to change laws that offend their beliefs,
using CIVIL and legal means to reform or remove the offending legislation as with the Hobby Lobby ruling,
why not hold Muslims to the same Constitutional standards. If they live in America and consent to follow the laws?

Abortions have nothing to do with it though I see your train of thought. A woman getting a abortion is not the business of a christian. It has nothing to do with their god or their life. Muslims are held to the same constitutional standards if they live in the US. They are also against abortion.

 

[emilynghiem]

Piss Crist = Free Speech
Draw Muhammad = Provocative.

Any of you Clown Avatars here that are against draw Muhammad shows are against America and Freedom in general.

^^^ This is the fatal flaw with conservatism: the inability and unwillingness to ever put the shoe on the other foot.

What if Muslim-Americans had organized a bible burning in Garland, Texas?

Would you be calling it free speech, or incitement to violence?

Dear Synthaholic
When Muslims in Texas put together a huge event to demonstrate the religious freedom of Muslims,
this was met with protesting, but all was done civilly within the legal requirements.

That's the difference.
When Tea Party demonstrations go on, this tends to attract CONSTITUTIONALISTS who respect police and military.
So of course they are into law enforcement, which is why they want gun rights, to defend the Constitution.

When the leftist loot as in Ferguson and Baltimore,
never mind. That isn't even fair to bring up, because as was
pointed out in the media -- when you have generations of disillusioned youth
from impoverished backgrounds, then of course you get that kind of chaos. From victims of liberalism
made weak by enabling people to be dependent on govt welfare instead of working toward equal ownership.

These people are not even from the same class, so it is unfair to expect them to suddenly be able to
change from depending on govt as unequal
to being in charge of decisions through equal resources and representation. Of course there's a difference.

It isn't the fault of people to be born in a lower socioeconomic class, without access to education in law and
ownership; but it is the responsibility of citizens to change that disparity and not allow people to stay trapped in it.

 

[Asclepias]

Who started the cartoon event?

A collection of free citizens in a free society exercising their 1st Amendment freedoms...........and the assholes who tried to shoot it up may very likely have been muslim terrorists.......so they started the violence.......and good Texas cops ended it......

So those free citizens disrespecting the religion of muslims started it then by holding a needless cartoon event about their prophet. Glad you agree.

Sorry moron....you don't get to kill people who draw cartoons...if you try to kill people who draw cartoons you are the asshole, not the cartoonists.......they should learn the Christian doctrine of turning the other cheek.......

Has nothing to do with the point. The christians that were inciting the muslim nutcases should have turned the other cheek and not held an event to piss them off.

1. RE Who started the Event? Pam Geller is not from Texas.
Texas was also the site for a big Muslim event in Garland that drew protests as well.
Are you going to blame Texas for allowing Free Speech for Muslims as well?

2. Are you going to blame the victims for inciting the shooting?
Would you blame a woman for "dressing provocatively" for getting rape kidnapped or killed
for drawing attention to herself that way?

Asclepias if people have a verbal disagreement over a verbal provocation, then resolve it verbally.
If you are physically attacked, you have the right to defense physically.

Verbal : Verbal
: :
Physical : Physical

If people need to be educated in civil law and criminal law in order not to violate laws,
that would be a sensible way to encourage prevention of crime, through law enforcement by education and training.
It would likely reduce the incidence of police violence if everyone agreed what the laws were, what is due process,
and what is and what is not legal response to a conflict or provocation.

Where you could argue thare is discrimination, Asclepias
until all people have EQUAL knowledge and access to law and education on these rights and due process and enforcement,
then the minorities without knowledge do have a disparity in unequal protection and greater likelihood of suffering crime.

So education is the key, and I think all sides agree with that, whether left or right, liberal or conservative, religious or secular.

Doesnt matter where Pam is from. She still organized an event to disrespect Muslims. So what Muslims had an event? Did they draw cartoons of Jesus in order to disrespect christians?

Yes I would have blamed the victims if there were any that were participating in the disrespect. Muslim have long advertised they dont appreciate their prophet being drawn. How much talking do you expect them to do to people that cant understand that simple concept?

 

[Katzndogz]

One of the dead terrorists was already under suspicion of being a terrorist anyway. They expected to die and they did.

 

[Asclepias]

Here is a link to the cartoon that actually won the contest....it also has an image of a National Endowment for the Arts called "Piss Christ" that was an award winner....let's see who chops off whose head over this....

Blog The Muhammad cartoon that won the Draw Muhammad contest

The progs are fine with "piss christ", it's the pedophile Muslim they worry about

Christians dont seem to be as committed as Muslims when it comes to their prophet of choice. Matter of fact I dont recall a rule saying you cant draw Jesus.

Dear Asclepias
Prolife Extremists have been known to kill doctors and attack clinics because they believe abortion is murder.
Are you going to say that allowing the choice of abortion, or actually providing abortion procedures, is provoking attacks?

So this should stop in order not to incite prolife attackers?

No. Someone getting an abortion is none of anyones business except the person getting the abortion and the father. Making fun of a religious icon is personal.

 

[depotoo]

Second shooter namee, Nadir Hamid Soofi

Picture from heavy.com

 

[Katzndogz]

It doesn't have to be big mo cartoons. It could have been any thing that offends muslim sensibilities. Suppose it was over unveiled women or restaurants that serve bacon and eggs.

 

[Pogo]

An "Islamic cartoon" contest ---- with Pam Geller huh?

What's that smell?

These two guys were idiots. Shooting at random Texas retards for drawing cartoons wasn't going to do a damn thing except what it did - get them both killed. If they had really wanted to have an impact they would have shot Geller. She came up with it and promoted it.

Encouraging murder and even suggesting the target. You really ARE a piece of shit.

No, just evaluating these shooters' savvy.

SJ isn't exactly head-of-the-class at reading comprehension. Just check his sigline. He STILL doesn't get it.

 

[emilynghiem]

This just came across my surfing....

Officer and Two Suspects Down in Gunfight at Islamic Cartoon Contest in Texas Possible Explosives Found

Should have these kinds of things all the time until they quit acting violently because of them. Afaik, other than little cults, they're the only major religion that goes postal over this kind of disrespect. If you can't handle people dissing your religion it probably isn't much of a religion.

The thing is --- two yahoos with guns in Dallas don't represent the body of a world religion any more than Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols do. If one applies, then so does the other; if one doesn't, then neither does the other. Can't play it both ways.

And here is exactly why that distinction matters:

It isn't, islam is a death cult and needs to be eradicated like polio or any other disease.

-- here's a guy who would slaughter a billion and a half people because two dickheads shot guns off. Makes ya wonder.

Can you read ? He said "Islam" needs to be eradicated, not "people" who follow it.

protectionist and rhodescholar
If we all agree (including peaceful Muslims) to label the ILLEGAL beliefs in terrorism as a separate criminal activity
such as calling this JIHADISM, then something illegal can be banned.

But we'd have to agree to prevent from banning people's religions who aren't guilty by association.

When liberals seek to ban conversion therapy that is ABUSIVE and damaging as a crime,
that has to be distinguished from voluntarily chosen REPARATIVE therapy which has been shown to work naturally,
and is the opposite where there is no coercion, force, abuse or anything against anyone's will, the therapy is based on
forgiveness and healing and is completely natural by free will.

I suggested before to distinguish
* Jihadism as the illegal political belief in terrorism as a form of retributive justice
* from Islamist beliefs that abuse govt for oppression and denial of due process
* from Muslim beliefs in peaceful coexistence and acceptance of all other laws and religions that are sent by God
specifically naming Christianity Jewish and Muslim but generally teaching there is "no compulsion in religion"
and respecting the free will and free choice of people, in order for faith to be real. (Ie if faith is forced it isn't real faith anyway)

If these three belief systems can be separated from each other,
then the Muslim beliefs are consistent with Constitutional laws,
but Jihadism does not respect due process but condones people taking justice into their own hands,
so that could be agreed upon as a terrorist cult to be banned and prosecuted as an enemy of the state.
And the Islamist beliefs in mixing religion with state would need to be checked with Constitutional limits,
the same as any other religious, political or other collective corporation at risk of abusing power due to its size and influence.

 

[emilynghiem]

[
You are a fucking moron.

Depends on which christians you ask and your understanding of what a prophet is. Since a lot of christians seemed to be idiots like you I'm not surprised you and they dont know what they are talking about.

No you ridiculous racist, Christianity is based on the idea that Jesus is the son of god. No Christian faith says he was a prophet - only the Muzzie Beasts make that claim.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Asslips, the "angry black" racist.....

Dear Uncensored2008 No, to be fair to Asclepias, he is not an angry racist.
If you look at his replies to my messages, he is always intelligent and civil. We've even
shared clarifications back and forth with mutual respect even if we disagree.

You may both be projecting and triggering each other a bit.
If you minus that reaction on both sides, both of you are normally civil and post to the topic.

These issues are contentious, and may bring out the worst edge in us and our posts,
but I know from reading both your messages, you both put content first if you are not sidetracked.
Please don't do that to each other. I appreciate your points back and forth, and don't want that derailed.

 

[Synthaholic]

An "Islamic cartoon" contest ---- with Pam Geller huh?

What's that smell?

These two guys were idiots. Shooting at random Texas retards for drawing cartoons wasn't going to do a damn thing except what it did - get them both killed. If they had really wanted to have an impact they would have shot Geller. She came up with it and promoted it.

Encouraging murder and even suggesting the target. You really ARE a piece of shit.

No, just evaluating these shooters' savvy.

Too late to back off your statement now, dirtbag.

Not backing off of anything. Random dead intolerant Texans would be forgotten about tomorrow by the RW media, after they exploited them. There's no lasting effect. So the shooters were dumb.

 

[Synthaholic]

here you go Nutz --- BREAKING Islamic State Partisans Take Responsibility for TX Terrorist Attack BEFORE ATTACK The Gateway Pundit ---

Like I said, teaper conspiracy or killer muslims...neither one surprises me...both are terrorists.

Dear Nutz:
Should I challenge you?
If you'd rather live in a country where the Constitution is enforced by Tea Party Constitutionalists?
Or under Shariah orders without due process under a Taliban regime?

I know someone from Nigeria who will tell you that the Islamist terrorists who took over certain villages
have caused nothing but terrible oppression and it's only gotten worse.

Really Nutz?
I am happy to bet you the other $10 million that I bet my other friend who raised it to 20 mill
that both of you would rather live under the Constitution enforced by Tea Party
than under Shariah codes enforced by militant Jihadists without due process.

At least with Constitutionalists they will let you argue through court to defend your beliefs.
That's why the prolife people have to put up with prochoice, because of the Constitution.

Do you really want to compare prolife Tea Party who tolerate prochoice because of the Constitutional system,
with Jihadists who don't respect any form of due process but will act as Judge, Jury and Executioner
and kill you the instant they decide you are guilty as an enemy of the state?

Are you THAT willfully stupid that you don't know the difference it makes in this country
to have DUE PROCESS of law where people can't put you to death on a whim? Really Nutz
I thought you were more intelligent than that.

Only liberals don't understand due process, but just legislating from the bench or by majority rule,
whatever goes through govt becomes law to them.

I thought you had a sense of the Constitution. Do you understand
the difference between due process under Constitutionalists
versus lack of due process under Jihadist Islamist terrorist regimes who take over govt in order to control the process?
Do you?

You're WAY too long-winded. Sorry. I tend to skim and scroll over posts that are not succinct.

 

[Synthaholic]

Piss Crist = Free Speech
Draw Muhammad = Provocative.

Any of you Clown Avatars here that are against draw Muhammad shows are against America and Freedom in general.

^^^ This is the fatal flaw with conservatism: the inability and unwillingness to ever put the shoe on the other foot.

What if Muslim-Americans had organized a bible burning in Garland, Texas?

Would you be calling it free speech, or incitement to violence?

Um, what are you talking about? What Mad Scientist did there was -accurately- put the shoe on the other foot. Provocative art depicting Christ versus provocative art depicting Mohammed. A bible burning would be more akin to a Koran burning than to a provocative portrayal. I'd say a provocative portrayal of a religion's supreme figurehead compares more directly to a provocative portrayal of a religion's supreme figurehead than it compares to anything else, you know, considering that they're the -same thing-.

And before you start pointing out that the difference is that in Islam, the portrayal is blasphemy, do keep in mind that Piss Christ was also interpreted by the vast majority of Christians to be blasphemous. How many shooters did the police take down outside of the Piss Christ exhibit? God, there's gotta be that figure floating around somewhere. . . .

I haven't seen any cartoons of Jesus Christ fucking a goat.

Piss Christ is a piece of modern art that caused quite a bit of controversy. There was even violence over it. Shootings? No. But that doesn't mean it couldn't have easily happened. We see Christian murderers frequently. The man who murdered Dr. Tiller was a devout Christian who committed the murder in the name of Christianity. Eric Rudolph, another Christian murderer, set off bombs at the Atlanta Olympics.

 

[Pogo]

Piss Crist = Free Speech
Draw Muhammad = Provocative.

Any of you Clown Avatars here that are against draw Muhammad shows are against America and Freedom in general.

^^^ This is the fatal flaw with conservatism: the inability and unwillingness to ever put the shoe on the other foot.

What if Muslim-Americans had organized a bible burning in Garland, Texas?

Would you be calling it free speech, or incitement to violence?

Um, what are you talking about? What Mad Scientist did there was -accurately- put the shoe on the other foot. Provocative art depicting Christ versus provocative art depicting Mohammed. A bible burning would be more akin to a Koran burning than to a provocative portrayal. I'd say a provocative portrayal of a religion's supreme figurehead compares more directly to a provocative portrayal of a religion's supreme figurehead than it compares to anything else, you know, considering that they're the -same thing-.

And before you start pointing out that the difference is that in Islam, the portrayal is blasphemy, do keep in mind that Piss Christ was also interpreted by the vast majority of Christians to be blasphemous. How many shooters did the police take down outside of the Piss Christ exhibit? God, there's gotta be that figure floating around somewhere. . . .

I haven't seen any cartoons of Jesus Christ fucking a goat.

Piss Christ is a piece of modern art that caused quite a bit of controversy. There was even violence over it. Shootings? No. But that doesn't mean it couldn't have easily happened. We see Christian murderers frequently. The man who murdered Dr. Tiller was a devout Christian who committed the murder in the name of Christianity. Eric Rudolph, another Christian murderer, set off bombs at the Atlanta Olympics.

--- and let an innocent man, Richard Jewell, take the rap initially. Then he bombed a lesbian bar and an abortion clinic, killing a guard and permanently disfiguring a nurse. Then he ran and hid, for months, with the support of local sympathizers. Around here.

Strange, I don't remember hearing at the time that because of Roeder or Rudolph or any other abortion terrorists, that "Christianity is a death cult which must be eradicated".

But granted, there is a difference -- nobody at that lesbian bar, or at that abortion clinic, or at the Olympics, went out of their way to in-your-face provoke Christianism. They were just going about their own business. Pam Geller ---- not so much.