Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Steinlight]

Well, obviously I have a problem with homosexuality, it is a degenerate and socially destructive lifestyle.

...

What has been the divorce rate of heterosexual marriages for the last 50/60 years?

What about all the long term gay relationships. Long term in spite of societies marginalization of them and benefits that usually are attached to loving couples? Any fair minded person would see many of these gay relationships as heroic

What about the divorce rates? This is the dumb argument your other buddy made. That because the institution of marriage is in decline in the aspect of divorce rates, I should support its destruction further by supporting the redefining of the institution?

Also, another bogus claim, that gays are just as monogamous as heterosexuals. They have far more partners than heterosexuals and are far more promiscuous. Homosexual men far promiscuous than homosexual women as well
Homosexualities A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
JSTOR An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie


If your contention that American society marginalizes them and causes them to be promiscuous, than how come these numbers across the Western World. Are Australia and Europe evil and homophobic as well? How do you define "marginalization" and please explain how this causes people to have more at risk sex.

 

[Syriusly]

How different are the adult children of parents who have same-sex relationships Findings from the New Family Structures Study
Same-sex parenting and children s outcomes A closer examination of the American psychological association s brief on lesbian and gay parenting.

Ah Mark Regnarus- always seems to come back to his 'studies' doesn't it? Of course his 'foundation' is dedicated to proving that.

I could show you criticism of Regnarus's studies, but why don't I just instead show studies which contradict him?

Children of same-sex couples are happier and healthier than peers research shows - The Washington Post

Children of same-sex couples fare better when it comes to physical health and social well-being than children in the general population, according to researchers at the University of Melbourne in Australia.

“It’s often suggested that children with same-sex parents have poorer outcomes because they’re missing a parent of a particular sex. But research my colleagues and I published in the journal BMC Public Health shows this isn’t the case,” lead researcher Simon Crouch wrote on the Conversation.

Crouch and his team surveyed 315 same-sex parents with a total of 500 children across Australia. About 80 percent of the kids had female parents and about 18 percent had male parents, the study states.

Children from same-sex families scored about 6 percent higher on general health and family cohesion, even when controlling for socio-demographic factors such as parents’ education and household income, Crouch wrote. However, on most health measures, including emotional behavior and physical functioning, there was no difference compared with children from the general population.

And maybe the APA's tract- that your article criticizes?

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/parenting-full.pdf

In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbian
women or gay men are unfit to be parents or
that psychosocial development among children of
lesbian women or gay men is compromised relative
to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not
a single study has found children of lesbian or gay
parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect
relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed,
the evidence to date suggests that home environments
provided by lesbian and gay parents are as
likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to
support and enable children's psychosocial growth.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

How different are the adult children of parents who have same-sex relationships Findings from the New Family Structures Study
Same-sex parenting and children s outcomes A closer examination of the American psychological association s brief on lesbian and gay parenting.

Ah Mark Regnarus- always seems to come back to his 'studies' doesn't it? Of course his 'foundation' is dedicated to proving that.

I could show you criticism of Regnarus's studies, but why don't I just instead show studies which contradict him?

Children of same-sex couples are happier and healthier than peers research shows - The Washington Post

Children of same-sex couples fare better when it comes to physical health and social well-being than children in the general population, according to researchers at the University of Melbourne in Australia.

“It’s often suggested that children with same-sex parents have poorer outcomes because they’re missing a parent of a particular sex. But research my colleagues and I published in the journal BMC Public Health shows this isn’t the case,” lead researcher Simon Crouch wrote on the Conversation.

Crouch and his team surveyed 315 same-sex parents with a total of 500 children across Australia. About 80 percent of the kids had female parents and about 18 percent had male parents, the study states.

Children from same-sex families scored about 6 percent higher on general health and family cohesion, even when controlling for socio-demographic factors such as parents’ education and household income, Crouch wrote. However, on most health measures, including emotional behavior and physical functioning, there was no difference compared with children from the general population.

And maybe the APA's tract- that your article criticizes?

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/parenting-full.pdf

In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbian
women or gay men are unfit to be parents or
that psychosocial development among children of
lesbian women or gay men is compromised relative
to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not
a single study has found children of lesbian or gay
parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect
relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed,
the evidence to date suggests that home environments
provided by lesbian and gay parents are as
likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to
support and enable children's psychosocial growth.

OF COURSE there is evidence. If the Regnarus study wasn't evidence you and others wouldn't spend so much time trying to deride it , you would simply say "here's a study that says otherwise"

By the way, the study you cited, yeah it used a WHOPPING 500 kids and didn't give ANY details about the sample size for their kids of straight parents at all, NONE. Literally, for all we know, they compared those 500 kids of faggots to 4 kids of straights and said "there you go, same as "

 

[Steinlight]

[
Also, you are simply wrong, children from single parent and homosexual households are far more likely to have been physically and sexually abused. So your claim is wrong.
Chapter Five What Factors Contribute to Child Abuse and Neglect
How different are the adult children of parents who have same-sex relationships Findings from the New Family Structures Study
Same-sex parenting and children s outcomes A closer examination of the American psychological association s brief on lesbian and gay parenting
.

Let us start with 'Chapter 5'

Not one mention of being raised by homosexuals there. Not sure why you suddenly want to equate single parent with homosexual households.

Risk factors they mention:
Parent factors- personality/history of maltreatment/substance abuse/attitudes and knowledge/age
Family Factors- single parents families- families with lots of children- father absence- marital conflict- stress-
Child factors (not really relevant)
Environmental factors- poverty unemployment/social isolation

I am not sure how you think Chapter 5 supports your case.

That link explains increased physical and sexual abuse in single parent households, you claimed a man in the household made it more dangerous for children, when children are more at risk in a single mother household. The bottom two links explain increased risk in homosexual couple households.

My advice to you is to reread my post and review the links more thoroughly.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

An interesting article, if anyone cares to be honest enough to read it

Not all children raised by gay parents support gay marriage I should know I 8217 m one of them Opinion LifeSite

 

[Syriusly]

It isn't just an issue of suicide rate. But on pure suicide rates, the most suicidal profession, physicians, are 1.87 times the average. Whereas LGBT youth for example are 4 to 6 times the average. Totally different degree of severity. Also whereas physicians aren't inherently suicidal, there is a strong link between homosexuality and mental illness that triggers suicidal tendencies.
Highest Suicide Rate by Profession New Health Guide
Higher Risk of Mental Health Problems for Homosexuals Psych Central
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/ss/ss60e0606.pdf

Honestly guy, you are out of your depth here. You are essentially ceding to my arguments but admitting you don't care. You put your egalitarian pathology above care for children.

I will let you know when I manage to find a hint of concern for children among your anti-homosexual posts.

Again- my point is how how you cherry pick reasons why you think homosexuals should not be allowed to adopt- and then do not apply the same standards to non-homosexuals.

So on to 'suicide'

Are you applying the same standards when it comes to the risk of suicide to all groups?

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/libra...rategy-suicide-prevention/full_report-rev.pdf

The suicide rate for homosexuals is higher than average. Gay men are 4 times more likely than straight men to attempt suicide. Lesbians are twice as likely as straight women to commit suicide.

And older white men are 3 times more likely than average Americans to commit suicide.

Older men, in particular those who are white, have disproportionately high rates of death by suicide. In
2009, the rate of death by suicide among older white men was 30.15 per 100,000—almost three times the
rate among the general population (11.77 per 100,000).1

Would you then advocate that couples that include an older white man shouldn't be allowed to adopt- because there is an increased likelihood that he will commit suicide?

 

[Steinlight]

How different are the adult children of parents who have same-sex relationships Findings from the New Family Structures Study
Same-sex parenting and children s outcomes A closer examination of the American psychological association s brief on lesbian and gay parenting.

Ah Mark Regnarus- always seems to come back to his 'studies' doesn't it? Of course his 'foundation' is dedicated to proving that.

I could show you criticism of Regnarus's studies, but why don't I just instead show studies which contradict him?

Children of same-sex couples are happier and healthier than peers research shows - The Washington Post

Children of same-sex couples fare better when it comes to physical health and social well-being than children in the general population, according to researchers at the University of Melbourne in Australia.

“It’s often suggested that children with same-sex parents have poorer outcomes because they’re missing a parent of a particular sex. But research my colleagues and I published in the journal BMC Public Health shows this isn’t the case,” lead researcher Simon Crouch wrote on the Conversation.

Crouch and his team surveyed 315 same-sex parents with a total of 500 children across Australia. About 80 percent of the kids had female parents and about 18 percent had male parents, the study states.

Children from same-sex families scored about 6 percent higher on general health and family cohesion, even when controlling for socio-demographic factors such as parents’ education and household income, Crouch wrote. However, on most health measures, including emotional behavior and physical functioning, there was no difference compared with children from the general population.

And maybe the APA's tract- that your article criticizes?

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/parenting-full.pdf

In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbian
women or gay men are unfit to be parents or
that psychosocial development among children of
lesbian women or gay men is compromised relative
to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not
a single study has found children of lesbian or gay
parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect
relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed,
the evidence to date suggests that home environments
provided by lesbian and gay parents are as
likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to
support and enable children's psychosocial growth.

To be honest, your study doesn't have a broad sample size(500 children vs Regenerus's 15,000 adults 18-39). Nor was it randomly selected. Your study was parent reported, whereas the Regenrus study adult children reported. The latter is far more accurate in reporting the actual condition of children by going to the source, not just trusting parents who will give a biased answer.

Analysis New Study Did Not Prove That Gay Parents Are Better

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Well, obviously I have a problem with homosexuality, it is a degenerate and socially destructive lifestyle.

...

What has been the divorce rate of heterosexual marriages for the last 50/60 years?

What about all the long term gay relationships. Long term in spite of societies marginalization of them and benefits that usually are attached to loving couples? Any fair minded person would see many of these gay relationships as heroic

What about the divorce rates? This is the dumb argument your other buddy made. That because the institution of marriage is in decline in the aspect of divorce rates, I should support its destruction further by supporting the redefining of the institution?

Also, another bogus claim, that gays are just as monogamous as heterosexuals. They have far more partners than heterosexuals and are far more promiscuous. Homosexual men far promiscuous than homosexual women as well
Homosexualities A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
JSTOR An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie


If your contention that American society marginalizes them and causes them to be promiscuous, than how come these numbers across the Western World. Are Australia and Europe evil and homophobic as well? How do you define "marginalization" and please explain how this causes people to have more at risk sex.

Outside of your church marriage is a civil contract. Under our Constitution gays will win recognition of their freedom and liberties

 

[Steinlight]

It isn't just an issue of suicide rate. But on pure suicide rates, the most suicidal profession, physicians, are 1.87 times the average. Whereas LGBT youth for example are 4 to 6 times the average. Totally different degree of severity. Also whereas physicians aren't inherently suicidal, there is a strong link between homosexuality and mental illness that triggers suicidal tendencies.
Highest Suicide Rate by Profession New Health Guide
Higher Risk of Mental Health Problems for Homosexuals Psych Central
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/ss/ss60e0606.pdf

Honestly guy, you are out of your depth here. You are essentially ceding to my arguments but admitting you don't care. You put your egalitarian pathology above care for children.

And older white men are 3 times more likely than average Americans to commit suicide.

Older men, in particular those who are white, have disproportionately high rates of death by suicide. In
2009, the rate of death by suicide among older white men was 30.15 per 100,000—almost three times the
rate among the general population (11.77 per 100,000).1

Would you then advocate that couples that include an older white man shouldn't be allowed to adopt- because there is an increased likelihood that he will commit suicide?

That stat in of itself means nothing. If you could show the difference between old white heterosexual males and old white homosexual males that would be a valuable statistic.

 

[Steinlight]

Well, obviously I have a problem with homosexuality, it is a degenerate and socially destructive lifestyle.

...

What has been the divorce rate of heterosexual marriages for the last 50/60 years?

What about all the long term gay relationships. Long term in spite of societies marginalization of them and benefits that usually are attached to loving couples? Any fair minded person would see many of these gay relationships as heroic

What about the divorce rates? This is the dumb argument your other buddy made. That because the institution of marriage is in decline in the aspect of divorce rates, I should support its destruction further by supporting the redefining of the institution?

Also, another bogus claim, that gays are just as monogamous as heterosexuals. They have far more partners than heterosexuals and are far more promiscuous. Homosexual men far promiscuous than homosexual women as well
Homosexualities A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
JSTOR An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie


If your contention that American society marginalizes them and causes them to be promiscuous, than how come these numbers across the Western World. Are Australia and Europe evil and homophobic as well? How do you define "marginalization" and please explain how this causes people to have more at risk sex.

Outside of your church marriage is a civil contract. Under our Constitution gays will win recognition of their freedom and liberties

Wow, what a non-response.

 

[Obejoekenobe]

Yes. Separation of church and state. Right?

And if the church practices sharia law as part of their doctrine, would the state then have a right to intervene?

If a church 'practices' sharia law the state wouldn't care- so long as such practices don't conflict with secular law.

If the 'Sharia law' being practiced is illegal- it is illegal- and the state has every right to intervene.

No church practices sharia law.

Tell that to the guy who asked the question.

I'm telling you. You said "If a church 'practices' sharia law."

It's nonsensical, because churches don't practice sharia law.

My bad, not a church but a Mosque.

If a.... Mosque..... practices sharia law as part of their tradition, would the state then have a right to intervene?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

And if the church practices sharia law as part of their doctrine, would the state then have a right to intervene?

If a church 'practices' sharia law the state wouldn't care- so long as such practices don't conflict with secular law.

If the 'Sharia law' being practiced is illegal- it is illegal- and the state has every right to intervene.

No church practices sharia law.

Tell that to the guy who asked the question.

I'm telling you. You said "If a church 'practices' sharia law."

It's nonsensical, because churches don't practice sharia law.

My bad, not a church but a Mosque.

If a.... Mosque..... practices sharia law as part of their tradition, would the state then have a right to intervene?

Not if that Sharia law didn't violate any laws.

 

[koshergrl]

We know marriage doesn't exist in nature, how? Exactly?
Wolves definitely engage in specialized, long-term coupling behavior that is recognized and supported by the pack....so do other animals.

Is there a doctor in the house?
​

There is obviously a malfunction here. Marriage is a civil contract and sometimes a religious blessing is attached to it. Marriage is a human construct.

You'll be okay, dainty, you don't need another ER visit.

And if the church practices sharia law as part of their doctrine, would the state then have a right to intervene?

If a church 'practices' sharia law the state wouldn't care- so long as such practices don't conflict with secular law.

If the 'Sharia law' being practiced is illegal- it is illegal- and the state has every right to intervene.

No church practices sharia law.

Tell that to the guy who asked the question.

I'm telling you. You said "If a church 'practices' sharia law."

It's nonsensical, because churches don't practice sharia law.

My bad, not a church but a Mosque.

If a.... Mosque..... practices sharia law as part of their tradition, would the state then have a right to intervene?

Yup, because sharia violates human rights.

 

[Syriusly]

[
Also, you are simply wrong, children from single parent and homosexual households are far more likely to have been physically and sexually abused. So your claim is wrong.
Chapter Five What Factors Contribute to Child Abuse and Neglect
How different are the adult children of parents who have same-sex relationships Findings from the New Family Structures Study
Same-sex parenting and children s outcomes A closer examination of the American psychological association s brief on lesbian and gay parenting
.

Let us start with 'Chapter 5'

Not one mention of being raised by homosexuals there. Not sure why you suddenly want to equate single parent with homosexual households.

Risk factors they mention:
Parent factors- personality/history of maltreatment/substance abuse/attitudes and knowledge/age
Family Factors- single parents families- families with lots of children- father absence- marital conflict- stress-
Child factors (not really relevant)
Environmental factors- poverty unemployment/social isolation

I am not sure how you think Chapter 5 supports your case.

That link explains increased physical and sexual abuse in single parent households, you claimed a man in the household made it more dangerous for children, when children are more at risk in a single mother household. The bottom two links explain increased risk in homosexual couple households..

Oh so that is what is tweaking you out.

What I said was this:

Men are more likely to molest than women- all men- all women- this is absolute- men are the molesters up to 98% of the time. Would you deny men or couples with men in them because they are more likely to molest?

And that is a fact

Your Chapter 5 even explains this:

• A study of 156 victims of child sexual abuse found that the majority of the children came from disrupted or single-parent homes; only 31 percent of the children lived with both biological parents. Although stepfamilies make up only about 10 percent of all families, 27 percent of the abused children in this study lived with either a stepfather or the mother's boyfriend.49

The statistics show how much more dangerous men are than women when it comes to child sexual assault.

http://www.abusewatch.net/pedophiles.pdf

Table 6- men are the abusers 88-99% of the time. Family members are the abusers 12-49% of the time.

Fathers- step fathers- grandfathers- brothers- all more dangerous than female family members.

IF you used consistent standards you would be saying that lesbian couples are the safest adoptive parents.

But instead you would deny adoption to every lesbian couple, and deny those children homes, even though they are more at risk- statistically for sexual abuse- than any household with a man in it.

 

[Syriusly]

An interesting article, if anyone cares to be honest enough to read it

Not all children raised by gay parents support gay marriage I should know I 8217 m one of them Opinion LifeSite

Makes sense. I can say personally that not all children raised by straight parents oppose gay marriage.

I should know- I am one of them.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

An interesting article, if anyone cares to be honest enough to read it

Not all children raised by gay parents support gay marriage I should know I 8217 m one of them Opinion LifeSite

Makes sense. I can say personally that not all children raised by straight parents oppose gay marriage.

I should know- I am one of them.

but certainly having lived in the situation he's more credible than you or I. And of course my Great Dane is more credible than Keys or that other idiot who are babbling about nature or whatever.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

[
Also, you are simply wrong, children from single parent and homosexual households are far more likely to have been physically and sexually abused. So your claim is wrong.
Chapter Five What Factors Contribute to Child Abuse and Neglect
How different are the adult children of parents who have same-sex relationships Findings from the New Family Structures Study
Same-sex parenting and children s outcomes A closer examination of the American psychological association s brief on lesbian and gay parenting
.

Let us start with 'Chapter 5'

Not one mention of being raised by homosexuals there. Not sure why you suddenly want to equate single parent with homosexual households.

Risk factors they mention:
Parent factors- personality/history of maltreatment/substance abuse/attitudes and knowledge/age
Family Factors- single parents families- families with lots of children- father absence- marital conflict- stress-
Child factors (not really relevant)
Environmental factors- poverty unemployment/social isolation

I am not sure how you think Chapter 5 supports your case.

That link explains increased physical and sexual abuse in single parent households, you claimed a man in the household made it more dangerous for children, when children are more at risk in a single mother household. The bottom two links explain increased risk in homosexual couple households..

Oh so that is what is tweaking you out.

What I said was this:

Men are more likely to molest than women- all men- all women- this is absolute- men are the molesters up to 98% of the time. Would you deny men or couples with men in them because they are more likely to molest?

And that is a fact

Your Chapter 5 even explains this:

• A study of 156 victims of child sexual abuse found that the majority of the children came from disrupted or single-parent homes; only 31 percent of the children lived with both biological parents. Although stepfamilies make up only about 10 percent of all families, 27 percent of the abused children in this study lived with either a stepfather or the mother's boyfriend.49

The statistics show how much more dangerous men are than women when it comes to child sexual assault.

http://www.abusewatch.net/pedophiles.pdf

Table 6- men are the abusers 88-99% of the time. Family members are the abusers 12-49% of the time.

Fathers- step fathers- grandfathers- brothers- all more dangerous than female family members.

IF you used consistent standards you would be saying that lesbian couples are the safest adoptive parents.

But instead you would deny adoption to every lesbian couple, and deny those children homes, even though they are more at risk- statistically for sexual abuse- than any household with a man in it.

oh now you want to use statistics. Hey let's step on over and discuss crime stats , shall we?

 

[Syriusly]

An interesting article, if anyone cares to be honest enough to read it

Not all children raised by gay parents support gay marriage I should know I 8217 m one of them Opinion LifeSite

Makes sense. I can say personally that not all children raised by straight parents oppose gay marriage.

I should know- I am one of them.

but certainly having lived in the situation he's more credible than you or I. And of course my Great Dane is more credible than Keys or that other idiot who are babbling about nature or whatever.

We can always find people who will not be happy by how they were raised.

Frankly I have known people raised in fine upstanding homes who don't support straight marriage.

And by fine upstanding homes, I mean miserable SOB's who had no reason ever to be parenting anyone but happened to be some twisted version of heterosexuals.

 

[Syriusly]

[
Also, you are simply wrong, children from single parent and homosexual households are far more likely to have been physically and sexually abused. So your claim is wrong.
Chapter Five What Factors Contribute to Child Abuse and Neglect
How different are the adult children of parents who have same-sex relationships Findings from the New Family Structures Study
Same-sex parenting and children s outcomes A closer examination of the American psychological association s brief on lesbian and gay parenting
.

Let us start with 'Chapter 5'

Not one mention of being raised by homosexuals there. Not sure why you suddenly want to equate single parent with homosexual households.

Risk factors they mention:
Parent factors- personality/history of maltreatment/substance abuse/attitudes and knowledge/age
Family Factors- single parents families- families with lots of children- father absence- marital conflict- stress-
Child factors (not really relevant)
Environmental factors- poverty unemployment/social isolation

I am not sure how you think Chapter 5 supports your case.

That link explains increased physical and sexual abuse in single parent households, you claimed a man in the household made it more dangerous for children, when children are more at risk in a single mother household. The bottom two links explain increased risk in homosexual couple households..

Oh so that is what is tweaking you out.

What I said was this:

Men are more likely to molest than women- all men- all women- this is absolute- men are the molesters up to 98% of the time. Would you deny men or couples with men in them because they are more likely to molest?

And that is a fact

Your Chapter 5 even explains this:

• A study of 156 victims of child sexual abuse found that the majority of the children came from disrupted or single-parent homes; only 31 percent of the children lived with both biological parents. Although stepfamilies make up only about 10 percent of all families, 27 percent of the abused children in this study lived with either a stepfather or the mother's boyfriend.49

The statistics show how much more dangerous men are than women when it comes to child sexual assault.

http://www.abusewatch.net/pedophiles.pdf

Table 6- men are the abusers 88-99% of the time. Family members are the abusers 12-49% of the time.

Fathers- step fathers- grandfathers- brothers- all more dangerous than female family members.

IF you used consistent standards you would be saying that lesbian couples are the safest adoptive parents.

But instead you would deny adoption to every lesbian couple, and deny those children homes, even though they are more at risk- statistically for sexual abuse- than any household with a man in it.

oh now you want to use statistics. Hey let's step on over and discuss crime stats , shall we?

LOL....if people want to start making claims about things, I will refute them with statistics which refute their claims.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

An interesting article, if anyone cares to be honest enough to read it

Not all children raised by gay parents support gay marriage I should know I 8217 m one of them Opinion LifeSite

Makes sense. I can say personally that not all children raised by straight parents oppose gay marriage.

I should know- I am one of them.

but certainly having lived in the situation he's more credible than you or I. And of course my Great Dane is more credible than Keys or that other idiot who are babbling about nature or whatever.

We can always find people who will not be happy by how they were raised.

Frankly I have known people raised in fine upstanding homes who don't support straight marriage.

And by fine upstanding homes, I mean miserable SOB's who had no reason ever to be parenting anyone but happened to be some twisted version of heterosexuals.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that you know of ANYONE who says there childhood was unhappy because their parents were heterosexual. I mean come on...