Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Seawytch]

If your religion precludes you from being able to do your job, get another job.

And if your job duties are redefined by intrusive special interest legislation?

PA laws aren't new. They've been around for quite a while.

Not sure how that answers the question.

Most of the folks who are facing PA law violations aren't facing a change of PA laws that resulted in their behavior creating a violation.

But instead a change in their behavior that has created a violation.

Well, no, they are. That's why they're being newly challenged. This will happened everytime they expand the scope by adding new protected classes.

Because bigots use the same playbook every time? That doesn't seem like a good reason to get rid of them.

 

[Syriusly]

If your religion precludes you from being able to do your job, get another job.

And if your job duties are redefined by intrusive special interest legislation?

PA laws aren't new. They've been around for quite a while.

Not sure how that answers the question.

Most of the folks who are facing PA law violations aren't facing a change of PA laws that resulted in their behavior creating a violation.

But instead a change in their behavior that has created a violation.

Well, no, they are. That's why they're being newly challenged. This will happened everytime they expand the scope by adding new protected classes.

And they have every right to challenge those laws if they want to- just as gay couples who felt anti-gay marriage laws were unconstitutional did.

They can either try to change the legislation- or they can go to court and argue that it is unconstitutional.

Worked fine for gay couples- feel free to pursue the changes you want either way.

 

[Syriusly]

All evidence to the contrary.

Unpopular minorities are the only groups who will ever be targeted by such laws.

The claim was that PA contribute to the persecution of minorities- yet the actual evidence is that 50 years after the granddaddy of PA laws we see less persecution of minorities not more.

Only the "minorities" who have won approval from the majority. That's what you're not getting. Real unpopular minorities will never get "protected class" status.

There's still plenty of discrimination against minorities. You probably don't even think of it as "discrimination" because you think it's "for a good reason". And it's that's last bit that bothers me about these laws. They're not telling businesses they can't discriminate. They're telling them what reasons they can and can't use for discriminating. They're setting up special classes for special protection which is an affront to equal protection.

That's the point in my posting here. We won't get any real momentum for repeal until people are alerted to the insidious nature of "thought crimes" legislation.

Well you are welcome to your opinion.

I look forward to your campaign to repeal the 1964 Civil Right Act- it will be fun to watch.

 

[beagle9]

Next will be Christian pastors who refuse to perform a gay wedding will be sued for discrimination and more. Then welcome to Nazi Germany everybody


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As evidenced by all the churches that have been sued to perform interracial or interfaith marriages, right?

COEUR D’ALENE, Idaho – Alliance Defending Freedom attorneys filed a federal lawsuit and a motion for a temporary restraining order Friday to stop officials in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, from forcing two ordained Christian ministers to perform wedding ceremonies for same-sex couples.
City officials told Donald Knapp that he and his wife Evelyn, both ordained ministers who run Hitching Post Wedding Chapel, are required to perform such ceremonies or face months in jail and/or thousands of dollars in fines. The city claims its “non-discrimination” ordinance requires the Knapps to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies now that the courts have overridden Idaho’s voter-approved constitutional amendment that affirmed marriage as the union of a man and a woman.
Coeur d’Alene officials told the Knapps privately and also publicly stated that the couple would violate the city’s public accommodations statute once same-sex marriage became legal in Idaho if they declined to perform a same-sex ceremony at their chapel. On Friday, the Knapps respectfully declined such a ceremony and now face up to 180 days in jail and up to $1,000 in fines for each day they decline to perform that ceremony.
The lawsuit came the same week that the city of Houston issued subpoenas demanding that five Christian pastors turn over sermons dealing with homosexuality and gender identity.
That's just one example recently. So yeah. And to equate homosexual behavior with having black skin is an affront to the civil rights movement. Were gay people barred from restaurants? Did people force gays to the back of the bus? Did they have to go to desperate schools? Did they have to drink out of the gay water fountain? Did they endure hundreds of years in slavery? I must have slept through that part if history class. I always miss something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not a church. A for profit chapel is not a tax exempt church. Fail.

The wolf will keep blowing and huffing and puffing until he tries to blow all our houses down. Just you all wait and see.

 

[beagle9]

Next will be Christian pastors who refuse to perform a gay wedding will be sued for discrimination and more. Then welcome to Nazi Germany everybody


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As evidenced by all the churches that have been sued to perform interracial or interfaith marriages, right?

COEUR D’ALENE, Idaho – Alliance Defending Freedom attorneys filed a federal lawsuit and a motion for a temporary restraining order Friday to stop officials in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, from forcing two ordained Christian ministers to perform wedding ceremonies for same-sex couples.
City officials told Donald Knapp that he and his wife Evelyn, both ordained ministers who run Hitching Post Wedding Chapel, are required to perform such ceremonies or face months in jail and/or thousands of dollars in fines. The city claims its “non-discrimination” ordinance requires the Knapps to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies now that the courts have overridden Idaho’s voter-approved constitutional amendment that affirmed marriage as the union of a man and a woman.
Coeur d’Alene officials told the Knapps privately and also publicly stated that the couple would violate the city’s public accommodations statute once same-sex marriage became legal in Idaho if they declined to perform a same-sex ceremony at their chapel. On Friday, the Knapps respectfully declined such a ceremony and now face up to 180 days in jail and up to $1,000 in fines for each day they decline to perform that ceremony.
The lawsuit came the same week that the city of Houston issued subpoenas demanding that five Christian pastors turn over sermons dealing with homosexuality and gender identity.
That's just one example recently. So yeah. And to equate homosexual behavior with having black skin is an affront to the civil rights movement. Were gay people barred from restaurants? Did people force gays to the back of the bus? Did they have to go to desperate schools? Did they have to drink out of the gay water fountain? Did they endure hundreds of years in slavery? I must have slept through that part if history class. I always miss something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

'just one example'- except its totally bogus- and old news. Reality is that the officials in Coeur d'Alene never threatened these two and specifically told them that they believed that they were exempt from the law.

And yes apparently you did sleep through history class- different groups in the United States have been discriminated in different ways- not much argument that African Americans were the most openly and heavily discirminated against- but that doesn't mean that other groups- from American Indians to Jews to women to homosexuals were also discriminated against.

How were homosexuals discriminated against?

• Until the Supreme Court ruled them unconstitutional, there were specific laws which forbade homosexual sodomy- exclusive from heterosexuals sodomy.
• The State Department for years had an official policy to refuse to hire homosexuals, and fire them when they were discovered.
• Many states passed laws (remember Anita Bryant) forbidding homosexuals to teach in public schools.
• Police in NY, San Francisco and other cities routinely harassed homosexuals- as in arresting everyone in a gay bar, parading them through reporters, not filing charges- but calling their employers to let them know that they had homosexuals working for them.
• For me, one of the most egregious examples was shown in the recent movie- Alan Turing in WW2 saved thousands of Allied lives by his code breaking work- yet a few years later he was arrested for consensual homosexual sex, and forced to undergo chemical castration.

We have come a long way baby- it is no longer acceptable to beat up and murder homosexuals, it is no longer legal to pass laws specifically to discriminate against homosexuals, and in some places homosexuals have the same legal protections as other groups that have faced historical discrimination.

We are really doing pretty well- Americans- homosexuals and Christians- all protected by the law from discrimination by business's.

Empowering and/or building up the homosexual culture around marriage now, and through the use of marriage as it was always understood to be something that is between a man and a woman, will be a huge mistake in the future I believe.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Next will be Christian pastors who refuse to perform a gay wedding will be sued for discrimination and more. Then welcome to Nazi Germany everybody


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As evidenced by all the churches that have been sued to perform interracial or interfaith marriages, right?

COEUR D’ALENE, Idaho – Alliance Defending Freedom attorneys filed a federal lawsuit and a motion for a temporary restraining order Friday to stop officials in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, from forcing two ordained Christian ministers to perform wedding ceremonies for same-sex couples.
City officials told Donald Knapp that he and his wife Evelyn, both ordained ministers who run Hitching Post Wedding Chapel, are required to perform such ceremonies or face months in jail and/or thousands of dollars in fines. The city claims its “non-discrimination” ordinance requires the Knapps to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies now that the courts have overridden Idaho’s voter-approved constitutional amendment that affirmed marriage as the union of a man and a woman.
Coeur d’Alene officials told the Knapps privately and also publicly stated that the couple would violate the city’s public accommodations statute once same-sex marriage became legal in Idaho if they declined to perform a same-sex ceremony at their chapel. On Friday, the Knapps respectfully declined such a ceremony and now face up to 180 days in jail and up to $1,000 in fines for each day they decline to perform that ceremony.
The lawsuit came the same week that the city of Houston issued subpoenas demanding that five Christian pastors turn over sermons dealing with homosexuality and gender identity.
That's just one example recently. So yeah. And to equate homosexual behavior with having black skin is an affront to the civil rights movement. Were gay people barred from restaurants? Did people force gays to the back of the bus? Did they have to go to desperate schools? Did they have to drink out of the gay water fountain? Did they endure hundreds of years in slavery? I must have slept through that part if history class. I always miss something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

'just one example'- except its totally bogus- and old news. Reality is that the officials in Coeur d'Alene never threatened these two and specifically told them that they believed that they were exempt from the law.

And yes apparently you did sleep through history class- different groups in the United States have been discriminated in different ways- not much argument that African Americans were the most openly and heavily discirminated against- but that doesn't mean that other groups- from American Indians to Jews to women to homosexuals were also discriminated against.

How were homosexuals discriminated against?

• Until the Supreme Court ruled them unconstitutional, there were specific laws which forbade homosexual sodomy- exclusive from heterosexuals sodomy.
• The State Department for years had an official policy to refuse to hire homosexuals, and fire them when they were discovered.
• Many states passed laws (remember Anita Bryant) forbidding homosexuals to teach in public schools.
• Police in NY, San Francisco and other cities routinely harassed homosexuals- as in arresting everyone in a gay bar, parading them through reporters, not filing charges- but calling their employers to let them know that they had homosexuals working for them.
• For me, one of the most egregious examples was shown in the recent movie- Alan Turing in WW2 saved thousands of Allied lives by his code breaking work- yet a few years later he was arrested for consensual homosexual sex, and forced to undergo chemical castration.

We have come a long way baby- it is no longer acceptable to beat up and murder homosexuals, it is no longer legal to pass laws specifically to discriminate against homosexuals, and in some places homosexuals have the same legal protections as other groups that have faced historical discrimination.

We are really doing pretty well- Americans- homosexuals and Christians- all protected by the law from discrimination by business's.

Empowering and/or building up the homosexual culture around marriage now, and through the use of marriage as it was always understood to be something that is between a man and a woman, will be a huge mistake in the future I believe.

Nonsense.

There is no such thing as 'homosexual culture.'

Your fear and hatred of gay Americans is unwarranted and ridiculous.

 

[Mr.Right]

Next will be Christian pastors who refuse to perform a gay wedding will be sued for discrimination and more. Then welcome to Nazi Germany everybody


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As evidenced by all the churches that have been sued to perform interracial or interfaith marriages, right?

COEUR D’ALENE, Idaho – Alliance Defending Freedom attorneys filed a federal lawsuit and a motion for a temporary restraining order Friday to stop officials in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, from forcing two ordained Christian ministers to perform wedding ceremonies for same-sex couples.
City officials told Donald Knapp that he and his wife Evelyn, both ordained ministers who run Hitching Post Wedding Chapel, are required to perform such ceremonies or face months in jail and/or thousands of dollars in fines. The city claims its “non-discrimination” ordinance requires the Knapps to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies now that the courts have overridden Idaho’s voter-approved constitutional amendment that affirmed marriage as the union of a man and a woman.
Coeur d’Alene officials told the Knapps privately and also publicly stated that the couple would violate the city’s public accommodations statute once same-sex marriage became legal in Idaho if they declined to perform a same-sex ceremony at their chapel. On Friday, the Knapps respectfully declined such a ceremony and now face up to 180 days in jail and up to $1,000 in fines for each day they decline to perform that ceremony.
The lawsuit came the same week that the city of Houston issued subpoenas demanding that five Christian pastors turn over sermons dealing with homosexuality and gender identity.
That's just one example recently. So yeah. And to equate homosexual behavior with having black skin is an affront to the civil rights movement. Were gay people barred from restaurants? Did people force gays to the back of the bus? Did they have to go to desperate schools? Did they have to drink out of the gay water fountain? Did they endure hundreds of years in slavery? I must have slept through that part if history class. I always miss something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

'just one example'- except its totally bogus- and old news. Reality is that the officials in Coeur d'Alene never threatened these two and specifically told them that they believed that they were exempt from the law.

And yes apparently you did sleep through history class- different groups in the United States have been discriminated in different ways- not much argument that African Americans were the most openly and heavily discirminated against- but that doesn't mean that other groups- from American Indians to Jews to women to homosexuals were also discriminated against.

How were homosexuals discriminated against?

• Until the Supreme Court ruled them unconstitutional, there were specific laws which forbade homosexual sodomy- exclusive from heterosexuals sodomy.
• The State Department for years had an official policy to refuse to hire homosexuals, and fire them when they were discovered.
• Many states passed laws (remember Anita Bryant) forbidding homosexuals to teach in public schools.
• Police in NY, San Francisco and other cities routinely harassed homosexuals- as in arresting everyone in a gay bar, parading them through reporters, not filing charges- but calling their employers to let them know that they had homosexuals working for them.
• For me, one of the most egregious examples was shown in the recent movie- Alan Turing in WW2 saved thousands of Allied lives by his code breaking work- yet a few years later he was arrested for consensual homosexual sex, and forced to undergo chemical castration.

We have come a long way baby- it is no longer acceptable to beat up and murder homosexuals, it is no longer legal to pass laws specifically to discriminate against homosexuals, and in some places homosexuals have the same legal protections as other groups that have faced historical discrimination.

We are really doing pretty well- Americans- homosexuals and Christians- all protected by the law from discrimination by business's.

Empowering and/or building up the homosexual culture around marriage now, and through the use of marriage as it was always understood to be something that is between a man and a woman, will be a huge mistake in the future I believe.

Nonsense.

There is no such thing as 'homosexual culture.'

Your fear and hatred of gay Americans is unwarranted and ridiculous.

And your love and support of them is disgusting.your kind will lead us all to destruction.

 

[Syriusly]

Next will be Christian pastors who refuse to perform a gay wedding will be sued for discrimination and more. Then welcome to Nazi Germany everybody


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As evidenced by all the churches that have been sued to perform interracial or interfaith marriages, right?

COEUR D’ALENE, Idaho – Alliance Defending Freedom attorneys filed a federal lawsuit and a motion for a temporary restraining order Friday to stop officials in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, from forcing two ordained Christian ministers to perform wedding ceremonies for same-sex couples.
City officials told Donald Knapp that he and his wife Evelyn, both ordained ministers who run Hitching Post Wedding Chapel, are required to perform such ceremonies or face months in jail and/or thousands of dollars in fines. The city claims its “non-discrimination” ordinance requires the Knapps to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies now that the courts have overridden Idaho’s voter-approved constitutional amendment that affirmed marriage as the union of a man and a woman.
Coeur d’Alene officials told the Knapps privately and also publicly stated that the couple would violate the city’s public accommodations statute once same-sex marriage became legal in Idaho if they declined to perform a same-sex ceremony at their chapel. On Friday, the Knapps respectfully declined such a ceremony and now face up to 180 days in jail and up to $1,000 in fines for each day they decline to perform that ceremony.
The lawsuit came the same week that the city of Houston issued subpoenas demanding that five Christian pastors turn over sermons dealing with homosexuality and gender identity.
That's just one example recently. So yeah. And to equate homosexual behavior with having black skin is an affront to the civil rights movement. Were gay people barred from restaurants? Did people force gays to the back of the bus? Did they have to go to desperate schools? Did they have to drink out of the gay water fountain? Did they endure hundreds of years in slavery? I must have slept through that part if history class. I always miss something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

'just one example'- except its totally bogus- and old news. Reality is that the officials in Coeur d'Alene never threatened these two and specifically told them that they believed that they were exempt from the law.

And yes apparently you did sleep through history class- different groups in the United States have been discriminated in different ways- not much argument that African Americans were the most openly and heavily discirminated against- but that doesn't mean that other groups- from American Indians to Jews to women to homosexuals were also discriminated against.

How were homosexuals discriminated against?

• Until the Supreme Court ruled them unconstitutional, there were specific laws which forbade homosexual sodomy- exclusive from heterosexuals sodomy.
• The State Department for years had an official policy to refuse to hire homosexuals, and fire them when they were discovered.
• Many states passed laws (remember Anita Bryant) forbidding homosexuals to teach in public schools.
• Police in NY, San Francisco and other cities routinely harassed homosexuals- as in arresting everyone in a gay bar, parading them through reporters, not filing charges- but calling their employers to let them know that they had homosexuals working for them.
• For me, one of the most egregious examples was shown in the recent movie- Alan Turing in WW2 saved thousands of Allied lives by his code breaking work- yet a few years later he was arrested for consensual homosexual sex, and forced to undergo chemical castration.

We have come a long way baby- it is no longer acceptable to beat up and murder homosexuals, it is no longer legal to pass laws specifically to discriminate against homosexuals, and in some places homosexuals have the same legal protections as other groups that have faced historical discrimination.

We are really doing pretty well- Americans- homosexuals and Christians- all protected by the law from discrimination by business's.

Empowering and/or building up the homosexual culture around marriage now, and through the use of marriage as it was always understood to be something that is between a man and a woman, will be a huge mistake in the future I believe.

You are welcome to your opinion.

Meanwhile, I look forward to the children of gay couples being able to have married parents in all 50 states.

 

[beagle9]

Next will be Christian pastors who refuse to perform a gay wedding will be sued for discrimination and more. Then welcome to Nazi Germany everybody


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As evidenced by all the churches that have been sued to perform interracial or interfaith marriages, right?

COEUR D’ALENE, Idaho – Alliance Defending Freedom attorneys filed a federal lawsuit and a motion for a temporary restraining order Friday to stop officials in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, from forcing two ordained Christian ministers to perform wedding ceremonies for same-sex couples.
City officials told Donald Knapp that he and his wife Evelyn, both ordained ministers who run Hitching Post Wedding Chapel, are required to perform such ceremonies or face months in jail and/or thousands of dollars in fines. The city claims its “non-discrimination” ordinance requires the Knapps to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies now that the courts have overridden Idaho’s voter-approved constitutional amendment that affirmed marriage as the union of a man and a woman.
Coeur d’Alene officials told the Knapps privately and also publicly stated that the couple would violate the city’s public accommodations statute once same-sex marriage became legal in Idaho if they declined to perform a same-sex ceremony at their chapel. On Friday, the Knapps respectfully declined such a ceremony and now face up to 180 days in jail and up to $1,000 in fines for each day they decline to perform that ceremony.
The lawsuit came the same week that the city of Houston issued subpoenas demanding that five Christian pastors turn over sermons dealing with homosexuality and gender identity.
That's just one example recently. So yeah. And to equate homosexual behavior with having black skin is an affront to the civil rights movement. Were gay people barred from restaurants? Did people force gays to the back of the bus? Did they have to go to desperate schools? Did they have to drink out of the gay water fountain? Did they endure hundreds of years in slavery? I must have slept through that part if history class. I always miss something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

'just one example'- except its totally bogus- and old news. Reality is that the officials in Coeur d'Alene never threatened these two and specifically told them that they believed that they were exempt from the law.

And yes apparently you did sleep through history class- different groups in the United States have been discriminated in different ways- not much argument that African Americans were the most openly and heavily discirminated against- but that doesn't mean that other groups- from American Indians to Jews to women to homosexuals were also discriminated against.

How were homosexuals discriminated against?

• Until the Supreme Court ruled them unconstitutional, there were specific laws which forbade homosexual sodomy- exclusive from heterosexuals sodomy.
• The State Department for years had an official policy to refuse to hire homosexuals, and fire them when they were discovered.
• Many states passed laws (remember Anita Bryant) forbidding homosexuals to teach in public schools.
• Police in NY, San Francisco and other cities routinely harassed homosexuals- as in arresting everyone in a gay bar, parading them through reporters, not filing charges- but calling their employers to let them know that they had homosexuals working for them.
• For me, one of the most egregious examples was shown in the recent movie- Alan Turing in WW2 saved thousands of Allied lives by his code breaking work- yet a few years later he was arrested for consensual homosexual sex, and forced to undergo chemical castration.

We have come a long way baby- it is no longer acceptable to beat up and murder homosexuals, it is no longer legal to pass laws specifically to discriminate against homosexuals, and in some places homosexuals have the same legal protections as other groups that have faced historical discrimination.

We are really doing pretty well- Americans- homosexuals and Christians- all protected by the law from discrimination by business's.

Empowering and/or building up the homosexual culture around marriage now, and through the use of marriage as it was always understood to be something that is between a man and a woman, will be a huge mistake in the future I believe.

Nonsense.

There is no such thing as 'homosexual culture.'

Your fear and hatred of gay Americans is unwarranted and ridiculous.

No fear and no hatred here, just concern about how people are choosing to act and/or to live their lives these days, and what it is doing to them along with our society at large. Hey it's always been "Love the sinner, but not the sin" right ? What's changed on that ? I think that the (sinner / human being) has got to somehow try and do better in life against sin, and this instead of expecting everyone to come to them just like it is getting more and more to be in all of this mess.

 

[Skylar]

As evidenced by all the churches that have been sued to perform interracial or interfaith marriages, right?

COEUR D’ALENE, Idaho – Alliance Defending Freedom attorneys filed a federal lawsuit and a motion for a temporary restraining order Friday to stop officials in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, from forcing two ordained Christian ministers to perform wedding ceremonies for same-sex couples.
City officials told Donald Knapp that he and his wife Evelyn, both ordained ministers who run Hitching Post Wedding Chapel, are required to perform such ceremonies or face months in jail and/or thousands of dollars in fines. The city claims its “non-discrimination” ordinance requires the Knapps to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies now that the courts have overridden Idaho’s voter-approved constitutional amendment that affirmed marriage as the union of a man and a woman.
Coeur d’Alene officials told the Knapps privately and also publicly stated that the couple would violate the city’s public accommodations statute once same-sex marriage became legal in Idaho if they declined to perform a same-sex ceremony at their chapel. On Friday, the Knapps respectfully declined such a ceremony and now face up to 180 days in jail and up to $1,000 in fines for each day they decline to perform that ceremony.
The lawsuit came the same week that the city of Houston issued subpoenas demanding that five Christian pastors turn over sermons dealing with homosexuality and gender identity.
That's just one example recently. So yeah. And to equate homosexual behavior with having black skin is an affront to the civil rights movement. Were gay people barred from restaurants? Did people force gays to the back of the bus? Did they have to go to desperate schools? Did they have to drink out of the gay water fountain? Did they endure hundreds of years in slavery? I must have slept through that part if history class. I always miss something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

'just one example'- except its totally bogus- and old news. Reality is that the officials in Coeur d'Alene never threatened these two and specifically told them that they believed that they were exempt from the law.

And yes apparently you did sleep through history class- different groups in the United States have been discriminated in different ways- not much argument that African Americans were the most openly and heavily discirminated against- but that doesn't mean that other groups- from American Indians to Jews to women to homosexuals were also discriminated against.

How were homosexuals discriminated against?

• Until the Supreme Court ruled them unconstitutional, there were specific laws which forbade homosexual sodomy- exclusive from heterosexuals sodomy.
• The State Department for years had an official policy to refuse to hire homosexuals, and fire them when they were discovered.
• Many states passed laws (remember Anita Bryant) forbidding homosexuals to teach in public schools.
• Police in NY, San Francisco and other cities routinely harassed homosexuals- as in arresting everyone in a gay bar, parading them through reporters, not filing charges- but calling their employers to let them know that they had homosexuals working for them.
• For me, one of the most egregious examples was shown in the recent movie- Alan Turing in WW2 saved thousands of Allied lives by his code breaking work- yet a few years later he was arrested for consensual homosexual sex, and forced to undergo chemical castration.

We have come a long way baby- it is no longer acceptable to beat up and murder homosexuals, it is no longer legal to pass laws specifically to discriminate against homosexuals, and in some places homosexuals have the same legal protections as other groups that have faced historical discrimination.

We are really doing pretty well- Americans- homosexuals and Christians- all protected by the law from discrimination by business's.

Empowering and/or building up the homosexual culture around marriage now, and through the use of marriage as it was always understood to be something that is between a man and a woman, will be a huge mistake in the future I believe.

Nonsense.

There is no such thing as 'homosexual culture.'

Your fear and hatred of gay Americans is unwarranted and ridiculous.

No fear and no hatred here, just concern about how people are choosing to act and/or to live their lives these days, and what it is doing to them along with our society at large. Hey it's always been "Love the sinner, but not the sin" right ? What's changed on that ? I think that the (sinner / human being) has got to somehow try and do better in life against sin, and this instead of expecting everyone to come to them just like it is getting more and more to be in all of this mess.

Focus on your own sinning and don't get your panties in a twist about someone else's. That's between them and God. Your responsibility is to Love God and to Love your neighbor.

Not to punish your neighbor because you don't think he's doing what God told him to do. If there's punishment to met out, God will do it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

 

[JFish123]

COEUR D’ALENE, Idaho – Alliance Defending Freedom attorneys filed a federal lawsuit and a motion for a temporary restraining order Friday to stop officials in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, from forcing two ordained Christian ministers to perform wedding ceremonies for same-sex couples.
City officials told Donald Knapp that he and his wife Evelyn, both ordained ministers who run Hitching Post Wedding Chapel, are required to perform such ceremonies or face months in jail and/or thousands of dollars in fines. The city claims its “non-discrimination” ordinance requires the Knapps to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies now that the courts have overridden Idaho’s voter-approved constitutional amendment that affirmed marriage as the union of a man and a woman.
Coeur d’Alene officials told the Knapps privately and also publicly stated that the couple would violate the city’s public accommodations statute once same-sex marriage became legal in Idaho if they declined to perform a same-sex ceremony at their chapel. On Friday, the Knapps respectfully declined such a ceremony and now face up to 180 days in jail and up to $1,000 in fines for each day they decline to perform that ceremony.
The lawsuit came the same week that the city of Houston issued subpoenas demanding that five Christian pastors turn over sermons dealing with homosexuality and gender identity.
That's just one example recently. So yeah. And to equate homosexual behavior with having black skin is an affront to the civil rights movement. Were gay people barred from restaurants? Did people force gays to the back of the bus? Did they have to go to desperate schools? Did they have to drink out of the gay water fountain? Did they endure hundreds of years in slavery? I must have slept through that part if history class. I always miss something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

'just one example'- except its totally bogus- and old news. Reality is that the officials in Coeur d'Alene never threatened these two and specifically told them that they believed that they were exempt from the law.

And yes apparently you did sleep through history class- different groups in the United States have been discriminated in different ways- not much argument that African Americans were the most openly and heavily discirminated against- but that doesn't mean that other groups- from American Indians to Jews to women to homosexuals were also discriminated against.

How were homosexuals discriminated against?

• Until the Supreme Court ruled them unconstitutional, there were specific laws which forbade homosexual sodomy- exclusive from heterosexuals sodomy.
• The State Department for years had an official policy to refuse to hire homosexuals, and fire them when they were discovered.
• Many states passed laws (remember Anita Bryant) forbidding homosexuals to teach in public schools.
• Police in NY, San Francisco and other cities routinely harassed homosexuals- as in arresting everyone in a gay bar, parading them through reporters, not filing charges- but calling their employers to let them know that they had homosexuals working for them.
• For me, one of the most egregious examples was shown in the recent movie- Alan Turing in WW2 saved thousands of Allied lives by his code breaking work- yet a few years later he was arrested for consensual homosexual sex, and forced to undergo chemical castration.

We have come a long way baby- it is no longer acceptable to beat up and murder homosexuals, it is no longer legal to pass laws specifically to discriminate against homosexuals, and in some places homosexuals have the same legal protections as other groups that have faced historical discrimination.

We are really doing pretty well- Americans- homosexuals and Christians- all protected by the law from discrimination by business's.

Empowering and/or building up the homosexual culture around marriage now, and through the use of marriage as it was always understood to be something that is between a man and a woman, will be a huge mistake in the future I believe.

Nonsense.

There is no such thing as 'homosexual culture.'

Your fear and hatred of gay Americans is unwarranted and ridiculous.

No fear and no hatred here, just concern about how people are choosing to act and/or to live their lives these days, and what it is doing to them along with our society at large. Hey it's always been "Love the sinner, but not the sin" right ? What's changed on that ? I think that the (sinner / human being) has got to somehow try and do better in life against sin, and this instead of expecting everyone to come to them just like it is getting more and more to be in all of this mess.

Focus on your own sinning and don't get your panties in a twist about someone else's. That's between them and God. Your responsibility is to Love God and to Love your neighbor.

Not to punish your neighbor because you don't think he's doing what God told him to do. If there's punishment to met out, God will do it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

And if we don't have a beam we then can and should point out what's not Godly so maybe they can get gelp


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[Silhouette]

Focus on your own sinning and don't get your panties in a twist about someone else's. That's between them and God. Your responsibility is to Love God and to Love your neighbor.

Not to punish your neighbor because you don't think he's doing what God told him to do. If there's punishment to met out, God will do it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

Your false angst is equivalent to a child trying to burn himself on a hot stove, just as his mother catches him and swats his hand away. You cry "You evil woman! How dare you punish me for exercising my rights!"

You aren't well enough to make the call of whether or not society as a whole should be forced to indulge your delusions that two men or two women are acceptable subsitutes for the world's most important social institution for the future of mankind: IT'S CHILDREN in their formative years. So we who are still playing with a full deck make that call for you. Your behaviors are unacceptable to be modeled "as normal" for kids in this formative mileu. Your gay male ranks cannot provide a mother or a sense of belonging in a functioning adult world to a young girl growing up. Your lesbian ranks cannot provide a father or a sense of belonging in a functioning adult world to a young boy growing up. You FAIL at the baseline physical test to be parents to children in the way that is best for them. I'm not even talking about religion here. It's a simple physical failure. No emotion attached. It just IS.

That being said, there are quite a few nuggets of wisdom and plain old common sense in the old Bible in just day to day humans getting along in the world. One of those nuggets is Jude 1. It says to extend compassion to INDIVIDUAL gays, "making a difference". Note: it does not say "leaving them as they are to suffer". Nor does it say "telling them that what they're doing is just fine". Condoning "gay marriage" is a Christian violating Jude 1. It says that a Christian must never promote a GROUP of gays in their subculture in TAKING OVER a normal human society where men and women are spouses, fathers and mothers. So, you cannot force a Christian to participate in another religion that defies the Christian one. And that is, of course, precisely what you are doing with PA laws.

 

[Skylar]

Focus on your own sinning and don't get your panties in a twist about someone else's. That's between them and God. Your responsibility is to Love God and to Love your neighbor.

Not to punish your neighbor because you don't think he's doing what God told him to do. If there's punishment to met out, God will do it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

Your false angst is equivalent to a child trying to burn himself on a hot stove, just as his mother catches him and swats his hand away. You cry "You evil woman! How dare you punish me for exercising my rights!"

Here's the problem with your analogy: the people you're trying to punish aren't your children. You're not their parent. God is the parent. You are the child. And he's told you to love your neighbor. He's never told you to punish your neighbor.

That's not your role. You're trying to take God's place by inflicting God's punishment for the violation of God's rules. And you're not God. Any issues an individual has with God are between that person and God. Not you. the only relationship with God that you should be concerend with is your own.

Instead of lamenting about the mote in someone else's eyes, work on getting the beam out of your own.

 

[beagle9]

COEUR D’ALENE, Idaho – Alliance Defending Freedom attorneys filed a federal lawsuit and a motion for a temporary restraining order Friday to stop officials in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, from forcing two ordained Christian ministers to perform wedding ceremonies for same-sex couples.
City officials told Donald Knapp that he and his wife Evelyn, both ordained ministers who run Hitching Post Wedding Chapel, are required to perform such ceremonies or face months in jail and/or thousands of dollars in fines. The city claims its “non-discrimination” ordinance requires the Knapps to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies now that the courts have overridden Idaho’s voter-approved constitutional amendment that affirmed marriage as the union of a man and a woman.
Coeur d’Alene officials told the Knapps privately and also publicly stated that the couple would violate the city’s public accommodations statute once same-sex marriage became legal in Idaho if they declined to perform a same-sex ceremony at their chapel. On Friday, the Knapps respectfully declined such a ceremony and now face up to 180 days in jail and up to $1,000 in fines for each day they decline to perform that ceremony.
The lawsuit came the same week that the city of Houston issued subpoenas demanding that five Christian pastors turn over sermons dealing with homosexuality and gender identity.
That's just one example recently. So yeah. And to equate homosexual behavior with having black skin is an affront to the civil rights movement. Were gay people barred from restaurants? Did people force gays to the back of the bus? Did they have to go to desperate schools? Did they have to drink out of the gay water fountain? Did they endure hundreds of years in slavery? I must have slept through that part if history class. I always miss something.


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'just one example'- except its totally bogus- and old news. Reality is that the officials in Coeur d'Alene never threatened these two and specifically told them that they believed that they were exempt from the law.

And yes apparently you did sleep through history class- different groups in the United States have been discriminated in different ways- not much argument that African Americans were the most openly and heavily discirminated against- but that doesn't mean that other groups- from American Indians to Jews to women to homosexuals were also discriminated against.

How were homosexuals discriminated against?

• Until the Supreme Court ruled them unconstitutional, there were specific laws which forbade homosexual sodomy- exclusive from heterosexuals sodomy.
• The State Department for years had an official policy to refuse to hire homosexuals, and fire them when they were discovered.
• Many states passed laws (remember Anita Bryant) forbidding homosexuals to teach in public schools.
• Police in NY, San Francisco and other cities routinely harassed homosexuals- as in arresting everyone in a gay bar, parading them through reporters, not filing charges- but calling their employers to let them know that they had homosexuals working for them.
• For me, one of the most egregious examples was shown in the recent movie- Alan Turing in WW2 saved thousands of Allied lives by his code breaking work- yet a few years later he was arrested for consensual homosexual sex, and forced to undergo chemical castration.

We have come a long way baby- it is no longer acceptable to beat up and murder homosexuals, it is no longer legal to pass laws specifically to discriminate against homosexuals, and in some places homosexuals have the same legal protections as other groups that have faced historical discrimination.

We are really doing pretty well- Americans- homosexuals and Christians- all protected by the law from discrimination by business's.

Empowering and/or building up the homosexual culture around marriage now, and through the use of marriage as it was always understood to be something that is between a man and a woman, will be a huge mistake in the future I believe.

Nonsense.

There is no such thing as 'homosexual culture.'

Your fear and hatred of gay Americans is unwarranted and ridiculous.

No fear and no hatred here, just concern about how people are choosing to act and/or to live their lives these days, and what it is doing to them along with our society at large. Hey it's always been "Love the sinner, but not the sin" right ? What's changed on that ? I think that the (sinner / human being) has got to somehow try and do better in life against sin, and this instead of expecting everyone to come to them just like it is getting more and more to be in all of this mess.

Focus on your own sinning and don't get your panties in a twist about someone else's. That's between them and God. Your responsibility is to Love God and to Love your neighbor.

Not to punish your neighbor because you don't think he's doing what God told him to do. If there's punishment to met out, God will do it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

Focus on your own cake making and etc. then, and don't get your panties in a twist when a Christian doesn't want to allow you to make them bake a cake for your gay wedding & etc. The Christian choices (yes) is between them and God just as well the same, and so yes of course it is, and your responsibility is to honor their choice in life just as you expect to be honored in your lifestyle choices as well. However, you are not to force your lifestyle on to them in these ways in which it has been done by you all now in some strange and certain ways, because it is just wrong and you all know it, just like they (the Christians) are not to force you to come to church with them or to pray with them either. It is high time people begin to respect each others space and each others faith (as long as they are peaceful in doing so once again in life).

 

[beagle9]

Focus on your own sinning and don't get your panties in a twist about someone else's. That's between them and God. Your responsibility is to Love God and to Love your neighbor.

Not to punish your neighbor because you don't think he's doing what God told him to do. If there's punishment to met out, God will do it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

Your false angst is equivalent to a child trying to burn himself on a hot stove, just as his mother catches him and swats his hand away. You cry "You evil woman! How dare you punish me for exercising my rights!"

Here's the problem with your analogy: the people you're trying to punish aren't your children. You're not their parent. God is the parent. You are the child. And he's told you to love your neighbor. He's never told you to punish your neighbor.

That's not your role. You're trying to take God's place by inflicting God's punishment for the violation of God's rules. And you're not God. Any issues an individual has with God are between that person and God. Not you. the only relationship with God that you should be concerend with is your own.

Instead of lamenting about the mote in someone else's eyes, work on getting the beam out of your own.

Whose punishing who here ?

 

[Skylar]

Focus on your own sinning and don't get your panties in a twist about someone else's. That's between them and God. Your responsibility is to Love God and to Love your neighbor.

Not to punish your neighbor because you don't think he's doing what God told him to do. If there's punishment to met out, God will do it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

Your false angst is equivalent to a child trying to burn himself on a hot stove, just as his mother catches him and swats his hand away. You cry "You evil woman! How dare you punish me for exercising my rights!"

Here's the problem with your analogy: the people you're trying to punish aren't your children. You're not their parent. God is the parent. You are the child. And he's told you to love your neighbor. He's never told you to punish your neighbor.

That's not your role. You're trying to take God's place by inflicting God's punishment for the violation of God's rules. And you're not God. Any issues an individual has with God are between that person and God. Not you. the only relationship with God that you should be concerend with is your own.

Instead of lamenting about the mote in someone else's eyes, work on getting the beam out of your own.

Whose punishing who here ?

Its not your role to punish anyone for what you believe is a violation of God's moral rules. Its your role to Love God and Love your Neighbor.

If you have to fixate on someone's relationship with God, make it your own.

 

[Skylar]

'just one example'- except its totally bogus- and old news. Reality is that the officials in Coeur d'Alene never threatened these two and specifically told them that they believed that they were exempt from the law.

And yes apparently you did sleep through history class- different groups in the United States have been discriminated in different ways- not much argument that African Americans were the most openly and heavily discirminated against- but that doesn't mean that other groups- from American Indians to Jews to women to homosexuals were also discriminated against.

How were homosexuals discriminated against?

• Until the Supreme Court ruled them unconstitutional, there were specific laws which forbade homosexual sodomy- exclusive from heterosexuals sodomy.
• The State Department for years had an official policy to refuse to hire homosexuals, and fire them when they were discovered.
• Many states passed laws (remember Anita Bryant) forbidding homosexuals to teach in public schools.
• Police in NY, San Francisco and other cities routinely harassed homosexuals- as in arresting everyone in a gay bar, parading them through reporters, not filing charges- but calling their employers to let them know that they had homosexuals working for them.
• For me, one of the most egregious examples was shown in the recent movie- Alan Turing in WW2 saved thousands of Allied lives by his code breaking work- yet a few years later he was arrested for consensual homosexual sex, and forced to undergo chemical castration.

We have come a long way baby- it is no longer acceptable to beat up and murder homosexuals, it is no longer legal to pass laws specifically to discriminate against homosexuals, and in some places homosexuals have the same legal protections as other groups that have faced historical discrimination.

We are really doing pretty well- Americans- homosexuals and Christians- all protected by the law from discrimination by business's.

Empowering and/or building up the homosexual culture around marriage now, and through the use of marriage as it was always understood to be something that is between a man and a woman, will be a huge mistake in the future I believe.

Nonsense.

There is no such thing as 'homosexual culture.'

Your fear and hatred of gay Americans is unwarranted and ridiculous.

No fear and no hatred here, just concern about how people are choosing to act and/or to live their lives these days, and what it is doing to them along with our society at large. Hey it's always been "Love the sinner, but not the sin" right ? What's changed on that ? I think that the (sinner / human being) has got to somehow try and do better in life against sin, and this instead of expecting everyone to come to them just like it is getting more and more to be in all of this mess.

Focus on your own sinning and don't get your panties in a twist about someone else's. That's between them and God. Your responsibility is to Love God and to Love your neighbor.

Not to punish your neighbor because you don't think he's doing what God told him to do. If there's punishment to met out, God will do it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

Focus on your own cake making and etc. then, and don't get your panties in a twist when a Christian doesn't want to allow you to make them bake a cake for your gay wedding & etc.

If your religion makes it impossible for you to do your job, find another job. Its not our responsibility to adapt society to match your religion. Its your responsibility to match your job to your religion.

Take some personal responsibility for your own faith.

 

[dblack]

Empowering and/or building up the homosexual culture around marriage now, and through the use of marriage as it was always understood to be something that is between a man and a woman, will be a huge mistake in the future I believe.

Nonsense.

There is no such thing as 'homosexual culture.'

Your fear and hatred of gay Americans is unwarranted and ridiculous.

No fear and no hatred here, just concern about how people are choosing to act and/or to live their lives these days, and what it is doing to them along with our society at large. Hey it's always been "Love the sinner, but not the sin" right ? What's changed on that ? I think that the (sinner / human being) has got to somehow try and do better in life against sin, and this instead of expecting everyone to come to them just like it is getting more and more to be in all of this mess.

Focus on your own sinning and don't get your panties in a twist about someone else's. That's between them and God. Your responsibility is to Love God and to Love your neighbor.

Not to punish your neighbor because you don't think he's doing what God told him to do. If there's punishment to met out, God will do it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

Focus on your own cake making and etc. then, and don't get your panties in a twist when a Christian doesn't want to allow you to make them bake a cake for your gay wedding & etc.

If your religion makes it impossible for you to do your job, find another job. Its not our responsibility to adapt society to match your religion. Its your responsibility to match your job to your religion.

Take some personal responsibility for your own faith.

But that's not really what PA laws require, is it? They're demanding that he adapt his job to the mandates of government.

 

[Skylar]

Nonsense.

There is no such thing as 'homosexual culture.'

Your fear and hatred of gay Americans is unwarranted and ridiculous.

No fear and no hatred here, just concern about how people are choosing to act and/or to live their lives these days, and what it is doing to them along with our society at large. Hey it's always been "Love the sinner, but not the sin" right ? What's changed on that ? I think that the (sinner / human being) has got to somehow try and do better in life against sin, and this instead of expecting everyone to come to them just like it is getting more and more to be in all of this mess.

Focus on your own sinning and don't get your panties in a twist about someone else's. That's between them and God. Your responsibility is to Love God and to Love your neighbor.

Not to punish your neighbor because you don't think he's doing what God told him to do. If there's punishment to met out, God will do it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

Focus on your own cake making and etc. then, and don't get your panties in a twist when a Christian doesn't want to allow you to make them bake a cake for your gay wedding & etc.

If your religion makes it impossible for you to do your job, find another job. Its not our responsibility to adapt society to match your religion. Its your responsibility to match your job to your religion.

Take some personal responsibility for your own faith.

But that's not really what PA laws require, is it? They're demanding that he adapt his job to the mandates of government.

We've done this dance before, Dblack. You're trying to riding the issue to push libertarianism. You don't debate the authority of the States to regulate commerce in this fashion. Only any application of constitutionally granted authority that contradicts your libertarian beliefs.

And I've already given you my opinion on why libertarianism is an awful idea. And you've accepted it as legitimate political advocacy. I'm not interested in playing the proxy game again where you try to make this issue about your favored political ideology.

If you want to discuss libertarianism, start a thread on the topic.

 

[dblack]

No fear and no hatred here, just concern about how people are choosing to act and/or to live their lives these days, and what it is doing to them along with our society at large. Hey it's always been "Love the sinner, but not the sin" right ? What's changed on that ? I think that the (sinner / human being) has got to somehow try and do better in life against sin, and this instead of expecting everyone to come to them just like it is getting more and more to be in all of this mess.

Focus on your own sinning and don't get your panties in a twist about someone else's. That's between them and God. Your responsibility is to Love God and to Love your neighbor.

Not to punish your neighbor because you don't think he's doing what God told him to do. If there's punishment to met out, God will do it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

Focus on your own cake making and etc. then, and don't get your panties in a twist when a Christian doesn't want to allow you to make them bake a cake for your gay wedding & etc.

If your religion makes it impossible for you to do your job, find another job. Its not our responsibility to adapt society to match your religion. Its your responsibility to match your job to your religion.

Take some personal responsibility for your own faith.

But that's not really what PA laws require, is it? They're demanding that he adapt his job to the mandates of government.

We've done this dance before, Dblack. You're trying to riding the issue to push libertarianism. You don't debate the authority of the States to regulate commerce in this fashion. Only any application of constitutionally granted authority that contradicts your libertarian beliefs.

And I've already given you my opinion on why libertarianism is an awful idea. And you've accepted it as legitimate political advocacy. I'm not interested in playing the proxy game again where you try to make this issue about your favored political ideology.

If you want to discuss libertarianism, start a thread on the topic.

I don't care about your opinion of libertarianism. I'm calling you out an inconsistent claim. You're saying that their religion makes it impossible for them to do their job and that's simply not the case. The demands of new laws are what's interfering. They were doing their jobs before government got involved.