Should race-baiting demagogues share blame for two murdered NYPD cops?

[Where_r_my_Keys]

You have been dishonest with us here on at least one occasion.

Cite the specific occasion. OR Concede again, through your failure to do so, that it is YOU who are being dishonest.

 

[Wake]

I think you need to familiarize yourself with some of the hateful and disgusting things he has said about police officers. Respect is earned, Wake.

I'm not unaware of some things said and one within this messageboard. It's not doubtful he has said unreasonable and wrong things about the police here. It's better to ignore it, and deal with the issues directly with both civility and respect. I can restrain myself when talking with an ideological opponent who despises those who protect us. What's name-calling going to accomplish? Only more anger and hatred. Nothing good comes of it.

Well 'ignoring' what the Left says, has produced one catastrophe after another in this country.

Would you agree, that at some point, it behooves the culture to stop ignoring them... and to start taking what they represent seriously?

It's true that at this point, it is likely purely academic... and can no longer serve to affect what is now the inevitable failure of the US Federal Government. But life goes on, does it not? Thus, where the Left has destroyed the viability of their government, to continue to ignore their destructive reasoning, will only serve to further our destruction.

So, if there an upside to ignoring them? If so, what is it?

I expect you to keep my posts in context, or I will place you on Ignore.

Now, my post you quoted was directed towards Asclepias. I don't doubt he has said unreasonable and wrong things about the police in general. Personally I find it better to ignore those posts of his where he says those things, because it's not right. However, I do believe in dealing with the issues directly with both civility and respect. If I feel like discussing this particular issue, I'll discuss it with him, but I'll also restrain myself when talking with him, because we don't come to USMB in order to fight and hate. We come here to exchange our ideas and have a batter understanding of how our fellow humans being think, feel, and believe. This forum is such a great opportunity to accomplish these things, instead of pissing it all away by smearing feces and bile on one another simply because we disagree profusely on various issues.

Where you began your mistake in this post was mistaking my quote about what Asclepias says for what the Left as a whole says. Asclepias is not 'The Left.'You must make that distinction and then, afterwards, we can discuss the separate issue that you brought up about ignoring what 'The Left' says.

 

[ChrisL]

The focus isn't on ChrisL and Asclepias. It's on whether or not race-baiting demagogues share blame for the murders of two NYPD police officers.

I think they share some of the blame in this. Who here disagrees?

Yes I do, as I think I've made quite clear.

Oops! I misread that and should have I do NOT disagree. Lol!

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

This topic isn't a ride in an amusement park, meant to be solely for your own amusement. Nope. You have provided little if any standing here against my words and reason.

All I've done is read your words, considered them and the point you were apparently driving at and asked you to clarify your point and to further sustain it.

What you're pissed about, is your consistent failure to do so, which is perfectly understandable, given that such demonstrates that you have very little thought behind your words... and THAT means that you've wasted your time typing them and our time, lending you the courtesy of having considered them.

 

[Asclepias]

And that is why, as no less an authority than a moderator of this very board recently pointed out:

THERE ARE NO LEFTIST AMERICANS. ​

In context, his post was being sarcastic. It does not apply.

Is there anything else you have to say for yourself on this issue, Keys?

Overt deflection?

LOL! THAT is adorable.

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

Thats becoming a trite response. No one conceded anything.

 

[Asclepias]

The focus isn't on ChrisL and Asclepias. It's on whether or not race-baiting demagogues share blame for the murders of two NYPD police officers.

I think they share some of the blame in this. Who here disagrees?

I do.

You disagree that the guy that killed these two cops was not influenced in some way by an outside source? I'm asking because he remarked that he was getting tired of us being killed by the cops or something to that effect.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

I expect you to keep my posts in context, or I will place you Ignore.

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

See how easy this is? One is either capable of sustaining their public professions or one is not.

It could not be easier.

What's more scamp... to whom you direct your point does not alter the point... so where you direct a comment to one contributor does not mean that when another considers it and queries or otherwise comments upon it, that such changes the context.

I suspect, given your fragile means to support your 'feelings' that your subjective interests would be served by ignoring me. Just understand that this will not alter my means to respond to your points. It will only preclude you being able to defend yourself.

So, do as you must... and I will do the same.

 

[Wake]

The people that control the narrative. Those are the real culprits. People that live life on a daily basis have different experiences. I grew up with crooked racist cops killing and harassing Blacks and Latinos. People that live elsewhere think its fantasy.

When one reality is used to dispute the other we get a division and everyone chooses sides. The people that control the narrative get to influence all that and here we are.

Personally, I have not experienced your experiences. I don't know what it's like to be a young black man growing up in a poor neighborhood. That's the truth of it. I'm not willing to turn an eye on the likelihood that there have been crooked and/or racist police officers who have indeed harassed some black and Latino people. I did grow up as a young white man in a middle-class environment, but didn't have much if any of the benefits that some on the Left say we tend to have.

I think a bit of both—various—realities can be true. When we talk about those who control the narrative, to me it's convoluted, in that it's really deep and, in general, tough to sort through and understand. I will say I don't dismiss it as fantasy that there have been injustices by some in blue against some in poorer communities, whether black, white, Latino, etc.

 

[Carib Gyal]

I only potentially disagree on who those race baiters may be.

Let's start there, if you would.

Who do you feel are the race-baiters?

The people that control the narrative. Those are the real culprits. People that live life on a daily basis have different experiences. I grew up with crooked racist cops killing and harassing Blacks and Latinos. People that live elsewhere think its fantasy.

When one reality is used to dispute the other we get a division and everyone chooses sides. The people that control the narrative get to influence all that and here we are.

If you think latinos side with blacks, I have a bridge for sale. They are more racist than any plantation owner.

 

[Wake]

If you think latinos side with blacks, I have a bridge for sale. They are more racist than any plantation owner.

Are you saying that 'Latinos' are more racist than 'any plantation owner'?

Some, sure, but not all. My grandfather is full-blooded Latino, and he wasn't racist at all.

 

[Asclepias]

The people that control the narrative. Those are the real culprits. People that live life on a daily basis have different experiences. I grew up with crooked racist cops killing and harassing Blacks and Latinos. People that live elsewhere think its fantasy.

When one reality is used to dispute the other we get a division and everyone chooses sides. The people that control the narrative get to influence all that and here we are.

Personally, I have not experienced your experiences. I don't know what it's like to be a young black man growing up in a poor neighborhood. That's the truth of it. I'm not willing to turn an eye on the likelihood that there have been crooked and/or racist police officers who have indeed harassed some black and Latino people. I did grow up as a young white man in a middle-class environment, but didn't have much if any of the benefits that some on the Left say we tend to have.

I think a bit of both—various—realities can be true. When we talk about those who control the narrative, to me it's convoluted, in that it's really deep and, in general, tough to sort through and understand. I will say I don't dismiss it as fantasy that there have been injustices by some in blue against some in poorer communities, whether black, white, Latino, etc.

This is where the ability to think beyond your circumstances comes into to play. I can understand the shock or initial denial of whites not privy to my reality would manifest. They dont see this or they only see it on movies. I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is the subsequent denial of my reality. I then move from potential solution seeker to a protector of my position. The more I see people denying my reality the more I am suspect to being open to believing you are evil, racist, etc. The people who control the narrative know this dynamic all to well. They use it to play both sides against each other. What we are really looking at is control of the working class. Historically both sides have always been played against each other. This is just a recycled topic of dispute.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

The focus isn't on ChrisL and Asclepias. It's on whether or not race-baiting demagogues share blame for the murders of two NYPD police officers....

Of course they do... that is not even a debatable point.

Just as the person who yells "FIRE" in a crowded theater is responsible for the death and injuries that result from their speech and, this without regard of their stated intent.

 

[reconmark]

The focus isn't on ChrisL and Asclepias. It's on whether or not race-baiting demagogues share blame for the murders of two NYPD police officers.

I think they share some of the blame in this. Who here disagrees?

I do.

You disagree?

To be clear, on what do you disagree, and why?

The reason I ask is because I don't want to misunderstand what you have to say.

I was a Police Officer for 15 years, prior to that 5 years as an Air Force Aeromedical Tech, prior to that a Combat Marine for 4 years.

Before any of those experiences, I was Black and treated as such by police officers as a threat, criminal or basically in the wrong city.
Even as a Police Officer I was routinely stopped in certain cities and treated very disrespectfully until I identified myself.

When I was 11 years old, the most respectable couple in my neighborhood was a retired man and wife in their 60's.

I was coming home from my jobat the corner store and a white police officer stopped me and asked me what I had stolen "out of that store." When I told him that I didn't steal, he got out of the car grabbed me by the neck and started to search me.

Mrs. Howell came on her porch and asked what was the matter, the other police officer pulled a gun and told her to get her black ass back in the house before he shot her and her dog. The dog was a miniature poodle named Dino.

My point is that, I live with a foot in both camps and for those that deny that there are very racist police officers is factually incorrect.
Further, I don't believe that anyone on this forum can cite where I or anyone has said that all police officers are racist. I see that as a deflection by certain people as an attempt to minimize the experiences of many minorities in this country.

Sharton and the mayor have never advocated that Police Officers be attacked, killed, harassed. They have said that the recurrung narrative of unarmed Black men killed at the hands of White police officers needs to be more thoroughly examined and the dynamics of police/minority contact.

Being an Police Officer is a difficult job and all Police Officers should not be police officers, they carry too much prejudice.
By the same token, being a minority subject to police stops and field investigations is difficult, especially if you know you have done no wrong.

Now there's the conservative narrative and frankly a lie, that sharpton called for Police Officers to be killed. I would never support that sentiment yet it seems some white/conservatives are more than happy to accept that blatant lie.

Seems that they need it in order to justify their prejudice.
The protestors were called looters, when a very small percentage of them were actually looting.
That was never a point news worthy because it would shed the protestors as more than "liberal" malcontents instead of people who genuinely see the problem in today's police/minority contact.

 

[Wake]

You disagree that the guy that killed these two cops was not influenced in some way by an outside source? I'm asking because he remarked that he was getting tired of us being killed by the cops or something to that effect.

Today on CNN they said that the guy said it was vengeance for the filling in Ferguson.

 

[Flash]

Fox News whips up fear among those who watch and believe,

It is always comical to see the Liberals blame everything on either Bush or Fox News. They never take responsibility for their own actions.

 

[Asclepias]

Fox News whips up fear among those who watch and believe,

It is always comical to see the Liberals blame everything on either Bush or Fox News. They never take responsibility for their own actions.

There is much truth in his statement. Fox is used to scare white people if I can be blunt.

 

[Asclepias]

You disagree that the guy that killed these two cops was not influenced in some way by an outside source? I'm asking because he remarked that he was getting tired of us being killed by the cops or something to that effect.

Today on CNN they said that the guy said it was vengeance for the filling in Ferguson.

I didnt know that. I figured as much from what I read yesterday.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Constantly trying to blame everything on liberals is the formula for getting liberals killed.

Ironic, eh?

 

[Wake]

This is where the ability to think beyond your circumstances comes into to play. I can understand the shock or initial denial of whites not privy to my reality would manifest. They dont see this or they only see it on movies. I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is the subsequent denial of my reality. I then move from potential solution seeker to a protector of my position. The more I see people denying my reality the more I am suspect to being open to believing you are evil, racist, etc. The people who control the narrative know this dynamic all to well. They use it to play both sides against each other. What we are really looking at is control of the working class. Historically both sides have always been played against each other. This is just a recycled topic of dispute.

It is also true that some white people are born into miserable conditions without help, and that there do also exist black people who are born into good homes and live a fulfilling and prosperous life. Poor people, white and black, have had their hardships.

I know of racist white people, and of racist black people. There are the good and the bad, the poor and the rich. Every single person has a path behind them that they have been travelling for some time now. The evils and the goods you have experienced aren't the same for others, and it shouldn't reflect on whole groups at all. I work with an African-American man named John who I have grown to appreciate as a friend, and I work under exceptional black, white, asian, and latino nurses and doctors. I do not deny your reality.

In my opinion our media is one factor in those who control the narrative, because they control every single bit of information (news) that is released to us. And on this beast there are multiple heads at war with one another, including MSNBC, CNN, and FOX. It makes you feel helpless when there's little if anything you can do to take to task those within our medias who aren't honest. Could it be said that our media in the 30's-50's were at least a bit more straightforward and actually broadcasted the news?

 

[reconmark]

You disagree that the guy that killed these two cops was not influenced in some way by an outside source? I'm asking because he remarked that he was getting tired of us being killed by the cops or something to that effect.

Today on CNN they said that the guy said it was vengeance for the filling in Ferguson.

I didnt know that. I figured as much from what I read yesterday.

Let's be honest 99.99% of the protestors would never try to harm Police Officers and I believe would help them if they ever saw that they needed help.
How many conservative whites would like to believe that 99.99% of Black people, protestors, etc are now going to start killing Police Officers due to the actions of the crazies out there??