Should religion be taught in public schools?

[S.J.]

As a father, I was very involved in my children's lives and their education and I have seen it. It's somewhat subtle but it's there. Like using the word "proof" when discussing Darwin's findings instead of "possible evidence". The students are being led. Creation is never mentioned so the students are never allowed to see both sides. I'm against teaching "religion" in schools but when a student is only given one side of a debate that's gone on for centuries and then punished with a failing grade if they disagree with the teacher and don't answer the test questions the right way, that's not education, it's indoctrination. And that's what our educational system has become, indoctrination.

When your religion denies the evidence/facts you fail.

When your stupidity sees speculation as facts, YOU fail.

No. Evolution is a fact because 1000 facts suggest it is. If you have a better theory let's here it.

Saying God did it gets you an F. That's wild speculation based on a lack of evidence.

Oh, well I guess that just leaves YOUR theory. A rock suddenly turned into a living creature that magically morphed into another, then another, then another (but the old ones still somehow stayed exactly the same), then when it got to the top of the heap and became a man, the process suddenly stopped. Yeah, makes perfect sense (if you're a fucking stoned idiot like yourself).

Is that really what you think the theories of evolution propose happened?

You think that the both sides of the "debate" should be taught and yet you have just demonstrated that you don't know the other side of the "debate".

You also don't know that among biologists, paleontologists, geologists, chemists, really among almost all scientists, and most Christians that there is no debate between creationism and evolution. Evolution is a fact like germs, atoms, relativity, and gravity are facts.

No, I'm illustrating that you think life came from nowhere. At the very least, you don't know, and until you do, your theory cannot be proven. You may accept as fact what others have told you but you are far from meeting the burden of proof. All you have is speculation and speculation should not be taught as fact. If you want to talk about evolution, start another thread.

 

[Campbell]

Nope, you are not. Religion not important means anti-institutionalism, not anti-God.

You sound as daft as a southern Baptist.

Do you have a source for that or did you just pull it out of your ass? Since you don't accept that I'll give you another:

Survey: One in five Americans has no religion

Washington The fastest growing "religious" group in America is made up of people with no religion at all, according to a Pew survey showing that one in five Americans is not affiliated with any religion.

The number of these Americans has grown by 25% just in the past five years, according to a survey released Tuesday by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.

The survey found that the ranks of the unaffiliated are growing even faster among younger Americans.

Thirty-three million Americans now have no religious affiliation, with 13 million in that group identifying as either atheist or agnostic, according to the new survey.

Pew found that those who are religiously unaffiliated are strikingly less religious than the public at large. They attend church infrequently, if at all, are largely not seeking out religion and say that the lack of it in their lives is of little importance.

 

[S.J.]

No. Evolution is a fact because 1000 facts suggest it is. If you have a better theory let's here it.

Saying God did it gets you an F. That's wild speculation based on a lack of evidence.

Oh, well I guess that just leaves YOUR theory. A rock suddenly turned into a living creature that magically morphed into another, then another, then another (but the old ones still somehow stayed exactly the same), then when it got to the top of the heap and became a man, the process suddenly stopped. Yeah, makes perfect sense (if you're a fucking stoned idiot like yourself).

If that's what you think/believe that's why everyone thinks your an idiot.

It's not what I think, it's what YOU think.
PS, it's "you're", not "your", idiot.

Is Evolution a Theory or a Fact?
It is both. But that answer requires looking more deeply at the meanings of the words "theory" and "fact."

In everyday usage, "theory" often refers to a hunch or a speculation. When people say, "I have a theory about why that happened," they are often drawing a conclusion based on fragmentary or inconclusive evidence.

The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence.

Many scientific theories are so well-established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics). Like these other foundational scientific theories, the theory of evolution is supported by so many observations and confirming experiments that scientists are confident that the basic components of the theory will not be overturned by new evidence. However, like all scientific theories, the theory of evolution is subject to continuing refinement as new areas of science emerge or as new technologies enable observations and experiments that were not possible previously.

The evolutionary biologists who discovered Tiktaalik predicted that they would find fossils intermediate between fish and limbed terrestrial animals in sediments that were about 375 million years old. Their discovery confirmed the prediction made on the basis of evolutionary theory. In turn, confirmation of a prediction increases confidence in that theory.

In science, a "fact" typically refers to an observation, measurement, or other form of evidence that can be expected to occur the same way under similar circumstances. However, scientists also use the term "fact" to refer to a scientific explanation that has been tested and confirmed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing it or looking for additional examples. In that respect, the past and continuing occurrence of evolution is a scientific fact. Because the evidence supporting it is so strong, scientists no longer question whether biological evolution has occurred and is continuing to occur. Instead, they investigate the mechanisms of evolution, how rapidly evolution can take place, and related questions.

evolution can be proven, god cannot

Evolution cannot be proven. You believe it has because you want to believe it. You're guilty of the same thing you accuse of creationists.

 

[Campbell]

No. Evolution is a fact because 1000 facts suggest it is. If you have a better theory let's here it.

Saying God did it gets you an F. That's wild speculation based on a lack of evidence.

Oh, well I guess that just leaves YOUR theory. A rock suddenly turned into a living creature that magically morphed into another, then another, then another (but the old ones still somehow stayed exactly the same), then when it got to the top of the heap and became a man, the process suddenly stopped. Yeah, makes perfect sense (if you're a fucking stoned idiot like yourself).

If that's what you think/believe that's why everyone thinks your an idiot.

It's not what I think, it's what YOU think.
PS, it's "you're", not "your", idiot.

Is Evolution a Theory or a Fact?
It is both. But that answer requires looking more deeply at the meanings of the words "theory" and "fact."

In everyday usage, "theory" often refers to a hunch or a speculation. When people say, "I have a theory about why that happened," they are often drawing a conclusion based on fragmentary or inconclusive evidence.

The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence.

Many scientific theories are so well-established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics). Like these other foundational scientific theories, the theory of evolution is supported by so many observations and confirming experiments that scientists are confident that the basic components of the theory will not be overturned by new evidence. However, like all scientific theories, the theory of evolution is subject to continuing refinement as new areas of science emerge or as new technologies enable observations and experiments that were not possible previously.

The evolutionary biologists who discovered Tiktaalik predicted that they would find fossils intermediate between fish and limbed terrestrial animals in sediments that were about 375 million years old. Their discovery confirmed the prediction made on the basis of evolutionary theory. In turn, confirmation of a prediction increases confidence in that theory.

In science, a "fact" typically refers to an observation, measurement, or other form of evidence that can be expected to occur the same way under similar circumstances. However, scientists also use the term "fact" to refer to a scientific explanation that has been tested and confirmed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing it or looking for additional examples. In that respect, the past and continuing occurrence of evolution is a scientific fact. Because the evidence supporting it is so strong, scientists no longer question whether biological evolution has occurred and is continuing to occur. Instead, they investigate the mechanisms of evolution, how rapidly evolution can take place, and related questions.

evolution can be proven, god cannot

AMEN BROTHER BEN!!!!!!!!

They just don't get it. Childhood brainwashing has prejudiced them to the point of choosing to stay ignorant.

The church argued with Galileo in the early 1600's to the point of excommunication. Their side of the argument was that everything in the universe revolved around the earth. LOL!

 

[JakeStarkey]

"Thirty-three million Americans now have no religious affiliation, with 13 million in that group identifying as either atheist or agnostic, according to the new survey."

So it is 4% not 5% that are either atheist or agnostic, while 15% who are believers do not have an institutional religious affiliation. Hint: if they are neither atheist or agnostic, they believe in something, you munchkins.

You fundy anti-Godists are as bad as Southern Baptists (or S. J. for that matter).

 

[sealybobo]

I love watching the anti-Godists mumble and grumble, fumble and stumble and bumble.

America remains a religious country, outnumbering atheists constantly at about 30 to 1.

What is changing is that the mainstream denominations continue their losses to other non-mainstream sects and even other religious faiths, such as Islam, etc.

You folks will never get religion out of the public space.

30 people out of 31 are not religious in America. Do your own survey. No, don't, because most will just lie to you. Most don't want to admit they don't really believe. Even a lot of the ones who say they are Christian always premise it with "well I was born a _" But as someone who they know isn't judging them, they always admit they don't practice and they have their doubts. Yet you count them in your 30?

I agree we will never probably do completely away with religion but at least the bible thumpers will one day become a minority. But I agree there probably will always be little sects of muslims and mormons and jews and christians, even 1000 or even 4000 years from now. I don't see it going away anytime soon.

 

[sealybobo]

"Thirty-three million Americans now have no religious affiliation, with 13 million in that group identifying as either atheist or agnostic, according to the new survey."

So it is 4% not 5% that are either atheist or agnostic, while 15% who are believers do not have an institutional religious affiliation. Hint: if they are neither atheist or agnostic, they believe in something, you munchkins.

You fundy anti-Godists are as bad as Southern Baptists (or S. J. for that matter).

Lots of people believe in a god.

Argumentum ad populum. The popularity of an idea says nothing of its veracity.
Geocentrism, a flat earth, creationism, astrology, alchemy and the occult were all once pervasive beliefs.
Furthermore, religions are culturally relative and, for the most part, are inconsistent and mutually exclusive.

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” – Stephen F Roberts
“A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it.” – David Stevens

[FONT=Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif]Why there is no god[/FONT]​

 

[sealybobo]

Yet less than 5% of the population, like always, don't believe.

Americans as a whole are spiritual and religious.

That won't change.

It is changing, rapidly.

 

[sealybobo]

Nope, you are not. Religion not important means anti-institutionalism, not anti-God.

You sound as daft as a southern Baptist.

How the Internet Is Taking Away America’s Religion | MIT Technology Review

Using the Internet can destroy your faith. That’s the conclusion of a study showing that the dramatic drop in religious affiliation in the U.S. since 1990 is closely mirrored by the increase in Internet use.

That's because you can now look up and see exactly how full of shit your religion and every other religion is. You couldn't do that before the internet.

 

[sealybobo]

Even with our larger than average group of atheists, etc., they still only number less than 20% on the poll.

I'll take 20%! Because only half of the other 80% are nuts. That means only 40% of us are religious nuts. That sounds about right.

 

[CremeBrulee]

Learning about religion in the context of literature, history, art, or architecture is important. Many works and events would not exist without it. Obviously you can't have comparative religion courses without teaching specifics. There is huge difference between learning a religion and learning about a religion.

 

[sealybobo]

When your religion denies the evidence/facts you fail.

When your stupidity sees speculation as facts, YOU fail.

No. Evolution is a fact because 1000 facts suggest it is. If you have a better theory let's here it.

Saying God did it gets you an F. That's wild speculation based on a lack of evidence.

Oh, well I guess that just leaves YOUR theory. A rock suddenly turned into a living creature that magically morphed into another, then another, then another (but the old ones still somehow stayed exactly the same), then when it got to the top of the heap and became a man, the process suddenly stopped. Yeah, makes perfect sense (if you're a fucking stoned idiot like yourself).

Is that really what you think the theories of evolution propose happened?

You think that the both sides of the "debate" should be taught and yet you have just demonstrated that you don't know the other side of the "debate".

You also don't know that among biologists, paleontologists, geologists, chemists, really among almost all scientists, and most Christians that there is no debate between creationism and evolution. Evolution is a fact like germs, atoms, relativity, and gravity are facts.

No, I'm illustrating that you think life came from nowhere. At the very least, you don't know, and until you do, your theory cannot be proven. You may accept as fact what others have told you but you are far from meeting the burden of proof. All you have is speculation and speculation should not be taught as fact. If you want to talk about evolution, start another thread.

In fact, something can come from nothing and we are able to observe it in the form offvirtual particles and quantum vacuum fluctuations. They explain why the early universe lacked uniformity and provided the seeds for the emergence of structure. These quantum phenomena are also causeless in the sense that they are objectively and irreducibly random, a fact confirmed by tests of non-local realism and Bell’s Theorem.

 

[sealybobo]

Oh, well I guess that just leaves YOUR theory. A rock suddenly turned into a living creature that magically morphed into another, then another, then another (but the old ones still somehow stayed exactly the same), then when it got to the top of the heap and became a man, the process suddenly stopped. Yeah, makes perfect sense (if you're a fucking stoned idiot like yourself).

If that's what you think/believe that's why everyone thinks your an idiot.

It's not what I think, it's what YOU think.
PS, it's "you're", not "your", idiot.

Is Evolution a Theory or a Fact?
It is both. But that answer requires looking more deeply at the meanings of the words "theory" and "fact."

In everyday usage, "theory" often refers to a hunch or a speculation. When people say, "I have a theory about why that happened," they are often drawing a conclusion based on fragmentary or inconclusive evidence.

The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence.

Many scientific theories are so well-established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics). Like these other foundational scientific theories, the theory of evolution is supported by so many observations and confirming experiments that scientists are confident that the basic components of the theory will not be overturned by new evidence. However, like all scientific theories, the theory of evolution is subject to continuing refinement as new areas of science emerge or as new technologies enable observations and experiments that were not possible previously.

The evolutionary biologists who discovered Tiktaalik predicted that they would find fossils intermediate between fish and limbed terrestrial animals in sediments that were about 375 million years old. Their discovery confirmed the prediction made on the basis of evolutionary theory. In turn, confirmation of a prediction increases confidence in that theory.

In science, a "fact" typically refers to an observation, measurement, or other form of evidence that can be expected to occur the same way under similar circumstances. However, scientists also use the term "fact" to refer to a scientific explanation that has been tested and confirmed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing it or looking for additional examples. In that respect, the past and continuing occurrence of evolution is a scientific fact. Because the evidence supporting it is so strong, scientists no longer question whether biological evolution has occurred and is continuing to occur. Instead, they investigate the mechanisms of evolution, how rapidly evolution can take place, and related questions.

evolution can be proven, god cannot

Evolution cannot be proven. You believe it has because you want to believe it. You're guilty of the same thing you accuse of creationists.

Lots of facts that make evolution believable. What makes your god hypothesis remotely believable?

Please tell us your theory on how life got started. If you start off with, "in the beginning god made..." then of course we are going to mock you because you have no evidence to prove your theory. Don't you get it? I showed you yesterday that science believes evolution because 1000 pieces of evidence prove it is real.

It's like a court case where you didn't see the murderer actually murder someone. How can you be sure they did it if you weren't there? Well what if the prosecution provides the jury with 1000 pieces of evidence that link the suspect to the crime. He purchased the gun that was used. His fingerprints were at the murder scene. He told people he was going to kill the victim. His DNA was all over the crime scene. People saw him leave the scene and he had blood all over his clothes.

This is how solid the proof is for evolution. Would you find this person guilty or not guilty?

During and since Darwin's time, people have been looking for and studying evidence in nature that teaches them more about evolution. Some types of evidence, such as fossils and similarities between related living organisms, were used by Darwin to develop his theory of natural selection, and are still used today. Others, such as DNA testing, were not available in Darwin's time, but are used by scientists today to learn more about evolution.
Five types of evidence for evolution are discussed in this section: ancient organism remains, fossil layers, similarities among organisms alive today, similarities in DNA, and similarities of embryos. Another important type of evidence that Darwin studied and that is still studied and used today is artificial selection, or breeding.

Evolution

 

[JakeStarkey]

sealy thinks "30

people out of 31 are not religious in America

too stupid

when more than 85% identify with religion

you atheists have a right to be here, but

 

[Campbell]

Nope, you are not. Religion not important means anti-institutionalism, not anti-God.

You sound as daft as a southern Baptist.

How the Internet Is Taking Away America’s Religion | MIT Technology Review

Using the Internet can destroy your faith. That’s the conclusion of a study showing that the dramatic drop in religious affiliation in the U.S. since 1990 is closely mirrored by the increase in Internet use.

That's because you can now look up and see exactly how full of shit your religion and every other religion is. You couldn't do that before the internet.

The Internet plus talking to their friends on the Internet. Facebook and many discussion forums like we're using now. Some are too ignorant to know better:

 

[Gracie]

No, because religion is a personal matter for each individual.

 

[Michelle420]

I don't remember that we had religion classes in the public schools I attended.

We did have a mythology section in the fifth or sixth grade that wowed me.

Should we have religions classes, modified, or not in public school?

No.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

 

[Disir]

I see no problem with atheism being included in the material.

What is there to teach? No god, no heaven, no hell, just how we live this one life and hopefully leave it better for the next generation(s)

Class starts at 0800. Quiz at 0805. Then cookies. Yes, we brought cookies.

 

[Disir]

Most kids are engaging in these conversations without adult supervision. Creation myths are not science. That's why they are not included. That is where the private schools come into play. They have always been available. When someone says that kids need to know that there is a choice then we are no longer talking about their own children. We are talking about mine.

I am an atheist. My son is an atheist. We are ok with that. I have nothing to prove. There are no classes for him to discuss "atheism". It isn’t necessary and it would be a rather short discussion. He has met other atheists at his school. The kids are talking about it with or without anyone’s permission.

I just moved back to the Bible belt. I am less than ten miles away from a Baptist University which is two miles away from a Catholic University. Thirty miles away are Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox and Antioch Orthodox churches. There are at least ten Buddhist temples, fourteen synagogues, six mosques and two Hindu temples in the state. There are still enough Native Americans that practice the old ways. I am also thirty miles away from the State University. Not to mention that there are two military bases and a few Atheist organizations. You will find these exist in the “Bible Belt states”.

It isn't that these people don't have the opportunity. It's that it is a part of their identity. They don’t want to leave their community. This is their support system. It is who they are. Cool.

The absolute best that can be achieved is the first amendment.

And if you are looking for someone that bashes Mormons then that be me. One of my lines goes all the way back to its inception. I am an ex Mormon. I will maintain my stance.

What all brands and kinds of religious organizations won't face up to is that their days are numbered. The only thing which has kept the ancient god theories alive so far has been the brainwashing of children. Today's kids are smarter. They communicate with one another about everyday activities and also some more complex societal issues. It's spreading and "No Religion" is in the future. Just like witches and witch hunts people do away with "No Brainers" and religion definitely is one.

Millennials leaving church in droves, study says - CNN.com

"Released Tuesday, the survey of 35,000 American adults shows the Christian percentage of the population dropping precipitously, to 70.6%. In 2007, the last time Pew conducted a similar survey, 78.4% of American adults called themselves Christian.

In the meantime, almost every major branch of Christianity in the United States has lost a significant number of members, Pew found, mainly because millennials are leaving the fold. More than one-third of millennials now say they are unaffiliated with any faith, up 10 percentage points since 2007."

They know and it's discussed within different sects of Christianity and even Judaism. Catholics have discussed it for some twenty years. Mormons discuss it. In many instances it seems they have to pretend there is an attack on the religion itself simply to keep people in it AND it's usually for political gain. A lot of people think that leaving is due to the internet. That is only partially true.

I disagree about this being "today's kids". As long as there are no cognitive disabilities, kids begin thinking in abstract terms between the ages of 12-15. Yes, there is a lot of brainwashing that occurs among different denominations and fear is at the center of it. In fact, this is why when people leave LDS they become the most vocal critics. These big questions that kids start tangling with? They will revisit them through out their lives providing it is an interest. Some people are really happy with just showing up on Sunday and going through the rituals and leaving research etc. to someone else. Some people have to research and come to conclusions on their own. That's why I said it's not that the opportunities don't exist. It's because it is part of their identity and this is their support group. A lot of people know that what is contained in their books never happened but there are little lessons.

Horse Shit! I'm talking about college kids. Whether thumpers want to admit it or not ALL RELIGION is on it's way out! Educated people nearly always come to the same conclusions:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism"
~Dr. Albert Einstein~ (excerpt from his obituary)

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding"
~Thomas Jefferson~ (excerpt from a letter he wrote to John Adams in 1823)

Did you have a point?