simple question for the WTC collapse

[DaveB]

and trained firefighters that have heard items exploding before in fires said it did not sound like a "normal explosion" it sounded like bombs going off

How many were trained in 1000ft buildings coming down with kinetic energy off the scale? I would be more amazed if the floors cracking didn't sound like explosions.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Eots has still not proven his case for a "controlled demolition". Ask any forensics person who deals with explosives and they will tell you that there is always residue that can be used to identify what was used. Eots wants us to believe that the FBI didn't look for any even though they identified exactly what was used in 1993. Given the amount that would have been needed to do what he alleged the residue must be all over the site and surrounding areas. There was no explosive residue because no explosives were used. The onus is on Eots to provide this evidence and he can't. There wasn't even any shock wave that occurs with every explosion even though there were cameras rolling the whole time.

 

[eots]

and trained firefighters that have heard items exploding before in fires said it did not sound like a "normal explosion" it sounded like bombs going off

How many were trained in 1000ft buildings coming down with kinetic energy off the scale? I would be more amazed if the floors cracking didn't sound like explosions.

these reports clearly came from firefighters able to make it out of the building before the collapse so there was no 1000ft buildings coming down with kinetic energy off the scale and many of the reports came from the lower floors and lobby and basement

 

[eots]

Eots has still not proven his case for a "controlled demolition". Ask any forensics person who deals with explosives and they will tell you that there is always residue that can be used to identify what was used.

NIST conducted no forensic testing residue

Eots wants us to believe that the FBI didn't look for any even though they identified exactly what was used in 1993. Given the amount that would have been needed to do what he alleged the residue must be all over the site and surrounding areas. There was no explosive residue because no explosives were used. The onus is on Eots to provide this evidence and he can't. There wasn't even any shock wave that occurs with every explosion even though there were cameras rolling the whole time.

The FBI did no forensic testing for residue but now you have been informed of thuis fact you will just change your opinion and say thats normal

 

[eots]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG3EfPsnfRs]9/11 Crime Scene Evidence Was Destroyed - Firefighters For 9/11 Truth - YouTube[/ame]

.. NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.

FAQs - NIST WTC Towers Investigation

 

[Politico]

And the beat goes on......Sigh...........

 

[eots]

And the beat goes on......Sigh...........

dumb..

 

[Derideo_Te]

And the beat goes on......Sigh...........

dumb..

Ironic!

 

[Politico]

Ain't it though lol.

 

[eots]

ya really ironic...how you actually waste your time on your meaningless three word post of nothingness

 

[eots]

And the beat goes on......Sigh...........

dumb..

Ironic!

how about you elaborate on all the testing for residue NIST and FBI did instead and how they would of found it in their testing if explosives had been used

 

[Politico]

I'll tell you what. Forget all the decade old shit people keep copying from their grandma's basement. Show us the proof you collected on the ground during your interviews and scientific testing that shows there was a conspiracy and I wll pay you 10k.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Eots has still not proven his case for a "controlled demolition". Ask any forensics person who deals with explosives and they will tell you that there is always residue that can be used to identify what was used.

NIST conducted no forensic testing residue

Eots wants us to believe that the FBI didn't look for any even though they identified exactly what was used in 1993. Given the amount that would have been needed to do what he alleged the residue must be all over the site and surrounding areas. There was no explosive residue because no explosives were used. The onus is on Eots to provide this evidence and he can't. There wasn't even any shock wave that occurs with every explosion even though there were cameras rolling the whole time.

The FBI did no forensic testing for residue but now you have been informed of thuis fact you will just change your opinion and say thats normal

It wasn't NIST's job to do forensic testing for explosive residue. If you believe that the FBI did no testing then you need to prove that they didn't. However the FBI website indicates that the FBI most certainly did consider the possibility of bombs on 9/11.

FBI ? FBI Intelligence Timeline

September 11, 2001

Following the massive terrorist attacks against New York and Washington, the FBI dedicated 7,000 of its 11,000 Special Agents and thousands of FBI support personnel to the PENTTBOM investigation. "PENTTBOM" is short for Pentagon, Twin Towers Bombing.

Are you seriously accusing the FBI in being derelict in it's duties and ignoring the possibilities of bombs? Of course you are because that is the only way you can pretend that your "conspiracy theory" works and that is what you consider to be "normal".

 

[eots]

NIST conducted no forensic testing residue




The FBI did no forensic testing for residue but now you have been informed of thuis fact you will just change your opinion and say thats normal

It wasn't NIST's job to do forensic testing for explosive residue. If you believe that the FBI did no testing then you need to prove that they didn't. However the FBI website indicates that the FBI most certainly did consider the possibility of bombs on 9/11.

FBI ? FBI Intelligence Timeline

September 11, 2001

Following the massive terrorist attacks against New York and Washington, the FBI dedicated 7,000 of its 11,000 Special Agents and thousands of FBI support personnel to the PENTTBOM investigation. "PENTTBOM" is short for Pentagon, Twin Towers Bombing.

Are you seriously accusing the FBI in being derelict in it's duties and ignoring the possibilities of bombs? Of course you are because that is the only way you can pretend that your "conspiracy theory" works and that is what you consider to be "normal".

My god what an ass you are ..of course forensic testing for explosive residue is NISTs duty..but regardless the FBI did no testing for explosive residue nothing in your link indicates they did ..because they never did.. its the only way your conspiracy theory will work

 

[eots]

I'll tell you what. Forget all the decade old shit people keep opying from their grandma's basement. Show us the proof you collected on the ground during your interviews and scientific testing that shows there was a comsnpiracy and I wll pay you 10k.

Prove your comsnpiracy theory ..

 

[SFC Ollie]

All the debris was taken to fresh kills land fill where it was inspected for human remains and anything else that could be identified. They found everything from finger bones to house keys, But not one hint of a blasting cap or any other explosive device.

Once again explosion does not equal explosives....

 

[daws101]

and do be so lame as to just post ..bullshit...if you can find a post where I said anything about hydraulics being employed in the collapse of the wtc towers prove it or admit your mistake

nothing to admit.....the mistake is you own.
to anyone following this thread it appears you went to plan B. EXPLOSIVES TO HYDRAULICS
SO YOU DEAL WITH IT!

there is no way on earth you could provide a single post that indicates I said any such thing...if you could you would..but you cant...so you will babble nonsense instead

that classic dodge again..
your own posts betray you...

 

[daws101]

and do be so lame as to just post ..bullshit...if you can find a post where I said anything about hydraulics being employed in the collapse of the wtc towers prove it or admit your mistake

nothing to admit.....the mistake is you own.
to anyone following this thread it appears you went to plan B. EXPLOSIVES TO HYDRAULICS
SO YOU DEAL WITH IT!

To be honest daws, I didn't think he meant they used hydraulics in the WTC towers.

I know he didn't..but that's not the point...
eot's will say or post anything not to have to admit he's wrong or mistaken....showcasing that was the point ....

 

[daws101]

Like the perimeter columns -- and like steel columns in all tall buildings -- the thickness of the steel in the core columns tapered from bottom to top. Near the bottoms of the towers the steel was four inches thick, whereas near the tops it may have been as little as 1/4th inch thick
9-11 Research: The Core Structures

Who We Are

9-11 Research is a research consortium consisting of just a few individuals volunteering their time and resources to the effort. The principal contributors to the site are:

Jim Hoffman, Webmaster and Senior Editor
Gregg Roberts, Associate Editor
Jan Hoyer, Outreach Coordinator
Jim Hoffman created the website and wrote the vast majority of its original content. Hoffman has a background in software engineering, mechanical engineering, and scientific visualization. Hoffman also created the Web publishing system used to maintain the 9-11 Research website.

Gregg Roberts has been investigating the September 11 attack since December 2003 and has provided extensive editorial assistance to 911Research. He authored the essay Where Are the 9/11 Whistleblowers?, and is working with Hoffman to produce a book based on the site. Roberts is a technical writer and business analyst with a bachelor's degree in psychology, master's-level study in social work, and earlier education in the "hard" sciences.

Jan Hoyer is a former founding board member and graphic designer for the National 9/11 Visibilty Project, 911Truth.org and the D.C Emergency Truth Convergence. Hoyer has a degree in graphic design and experience in online multimedia.


not one engineering degree between them or fire science or explosives ....etc..
a shocking lack of the basic skill sets to make informed speculation on the events of 911.
an extreme bias is evident...
= ZERO CREDIBILITY...

 

[daws101]

If I remember right Eots mentioned that the beams near the base of the towers had to be about 4 inches thick.... That's an awful lot of thermite to burn through that much steel without anyone noticing....

Thermite in general makes an ugly hole with molten metal drips/blobs. It doesn't make clean cuts. It's a powder that undergoes a violent chemical reaction as seen in the video below.

Thermite VS Car Cool Video

Note how much thermite is used. The pot is about a liter, but how much thermite is that?


Stoichiometric thermite requires 2 moles of Al per 1 mole of Fe2O3

2Al + Fe2O3 = Al2O3 + 2Fe


2 moles of Al weigh 54 g
1 mole of Fe2O3 weighs 160 g

density of Al=2.64 g/cc
density of Fe2O3=5.24 g/cc


54 grams of Al is equivalent to 20.5 cc of Al.
160g of Fe2O3 is equivalent to 30.5 cc of Fe2O3

Therefore, 51 cc of fully dense powder of 20.5 cc Al and 30.5 cc Fe2O3 weighs (54+160) g = 214 g.

A volume of 1000 cc would weigh (1000/51)*214 = 4.2 kg

For a powder packing density of 50%, the powder would weigh:

0.5*4.2 kg = 2.1 kg = 4.8 lb

That much just to burn a small hole in a small car engine. I bet it's even an aluminum block but lets say it isn't. How much do you think it would take to burn a massive core column? Then add enough to burn for 6 weeks! You see where we're going. You'd need tons.

Here's a Debunking911 Fun Fact!


How much mass would be required to produce molten iron from thermite equal to the same volume of molten aluminum droplets shown flowing from the south tower window:


A mole of Fe weighs 54 g. For every mole of Fe produced by thermite, one mole of Al and 0.5 mole of Fe2O3 is needed.

2Al + Fe2O3 = Al2O3 + 2Fe


One mole of Al weighs 27 g. 0.5 mole of Fe2O3 weighs 80 g.

Therefore, (27 + 80) g = 107 g of Al and Fe2O3 is needed to produce 54 g of Fe.

That means the mass of the reactants to that of Fe produced is a ratio of 107/54 = 2. The mass of thermite reactants (Al, Fe2O3) is twice that of the molten iron produced.

Comparing the weight of molten aluminum droplets compared with iron:

Iron is 7.9 g/cc. Aluminum is 2.64 g/cc. Fe is denser than Al by a factor of 3. For the same volume of droplets, Fe would have three times the mass as Al.

To produce the iron from thermite requires a reactant mass that is a factor of 2 more than the iron produced. Also, Fe is 3 times as dense as Al. So, it would take 2*3 = 6 times as much mass to produce the same volume of molten iron droplets from thermite compared with molten aluminum droplets.


Example:

Assume 3000 lbs of aluminum fell from the towers. If it had been molten iron produced by thermite, then 6*3000 = 18,000 lbs of thermite reactants would have been required to produce that same volume of falling mass.

Suppose 10 tons of molten aluminum fell from the south tower, about 1/8th of that available from the airplane. If it had been molten iron produced from thermite, 60 tons of thermite reactants would have to have been stored in Fuji Bank to produce the same volume spilling out of the south tower. The section of floor would have to hold all of that plus the aircraft.

*Amount of aluminum can be ascertained by counting the droplets and measuring their size compared to the known size of the window. It's not easy to get a good number on this. It's based on the number of slugs seen in video stills, their size relative to the window width which was about 22 inches, and the density of aluminum, assuming this was aluminum.

Density of metals

The weight of a gallon of aluminum is about 22.5 pounds. A hundred of these would already be 2250 lbs. A gallon size is not unlike the size of the slugs that were pouring out the window. Look at them relative to the window size. They look small at first, but when you realize how big the towers were, the slugs were fairly large. It must have been in the thousands of pounds.

Thermite and Sulfur- Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition