Simple restraining order not enough to end 2nd Amendment Rights.....

[2aguy]

This makes sense.....


U.S.A. –-(AmmoLand.com)-– A three-judge panel on the Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit has ruled a mere restraining order is insufficient to ban rights protected by the Second Amendment. The decision follows the long judicial practice in the United States. Fundamental constitutionally protected rights may not be removed without a criminal conviction in a court of law.

Restraining orders have the merest hint of due process. They are often granted without any representation on the part of the individual accused. The utility of restraining orders and the removal of rights because of them have long been in doubt. Intimate partner homicides decreased sharply in the decades previous to 1996 when the federal law banning possession of firearms from those who were subject to a restraining order went into effect. Then, they leveled off.
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One of the judges in the three-judge panel, Judge Ho, wrote a separate opinion, concurring with the decision but elaborating on it. Judge Ho wrote:

So when the government detains—and thereby disarms—a member of our community, it must do so consistent with the fundamental protections that our Constitution affords to those accused of a crime. For example, the government may detain dangerous criminals, not just after conviction, but also before trial. Pre-trial detention is expressly contemplated by the Excessive Bail Clause and the Speedy Trial Clause. And it no doubt plays a significant role in protecting innocent citizens against violence. See, e.g., United States v. Salerno, 481 U.S. 739, 755 (1987) (permitting“the detention prior to trial of arrestees charged with serious felonies who . . . pose a threat to the safety of individuals or to the community”).

Domestic Accusation Insufficient to Ban Rights Protected by the Second Amendment

The Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals has held that mere domestic restraining orders are insufficient to ban the exercise of fundamental constitutional rights without due process.

www.ammoland.com

 

[White 6]

This makes sense.....


U.S.A. –-(AmmoLand.com)-– A three-judge panel on the Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit has ruled a mere restraining order is insufficient to ban rights protected by the Second Amendment. The decision follows the long judicial practice in the United States. Fundamental constitutionally protected rights may not be removed without a criminal conviction in a court of law.

Restraining orders have the merest hint of due process. They are often granted without any representation on the part of the individual accused. The utility of restraining orders and the removal of rights because of them have long been in doubt. Intimate partner homicides decreased sharply in the decades previous to 1996 when the federal law banning possession of firearms from those who were subject to a restraining order went into effect. Then, they leveled off.
-------


One of the judges in the three-judge panel, Judge Ho, wrote a separate opinion, concurring with the decision but elaborating on it. Judge Ho wrote:

Domestic Accusation Insufficient to Ban Rights Protected by the Second Amendment

The Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals has held that mere domestic restraining orders are insufficient to ban the exercise of fundamental constitutional rights without due process.

www.ammoland.com

If somebody or government entity wishes to deny your right to keep and bear arms for self-protection, there should be an immediate hearing and your rights protected by a lawyer and if retaining the right, lawyer fees should be paid by the government or the person bringing the action. At the same time, I have no problem whatsoever of a felony conviction removing that right until you are dead and buried, even if it was not a violent felony involving a weapon. Removal of that right, is just acknowledge the guilty, as a person of anti-social low impulse control if not down right malevolence to society.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Yes, it makes sense to those wishing to retain their 2A rights.
But to those tyrants moving to eliminate them, it is but an annoyance to be ignored and over ruled.

I still say 2A rights will eventually be eliminated if all we do is complain about what they do as they do it.
The RIGHT to keep and bear arms can never be guaranteed by Documents but instead MUST periodically be preserved through great personal sacrifice and a determination that transcends all hindrances. This is the way human nature works.

To think that simply complaining about rights being taken away will somehow magically preserve those rights is in and of itself insanity.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

If somebody or government entity wishes to deny your right to keep and bear arms for self-protection, there should be an immediate hearing and your rights protected by a lawyer and if retaining the right, lawyer fees should be paid by the government or the person bringing the action. At the same time, I have no problem whatsoever of a felony conviction removing that right until you are dead and buried, even if it was not a violent felony involving a weapon. Removal of that right, is just acknowledge the guilty, as a person of anti-social low impulse control if not down right malevolence to society.

Unfortunately.....
What "Should" be and what IS are universes apart.

And the problem with your scenario is that people get convicted sometimes who are innocent.
And many judges legislate from the bench.

I think our best best is to follow the CONSTITUTION VERBATIM.

 

[White 6]

Unfortunately.....
What "Should" be and what IS are universes apart.

And the problem with your scenario is that people get convicted sometimes who are innocent.
And many judges legislate from the bench.

I think our best best is to follow the CONSTITUTION VERBATIM.

So you think we should live without laws or the courts, because some are innocent. I don't.

 

[M14 Shooter]

This makes sense.....

And, for the ignorant among you, soon to rear your ugly heads...
This ruling has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment.

If a restraining order isn't enough to put you in jail, it's not enough to deny your right to keep and bear arms.

 

[whitehall]

Restraining orders are complicated. It could be a stalker or domestic abuse or something more serious. Wouldn't it be prudent if the Court ruled that the subject of a restraining order be prevented from purchasing a firearm until the order expired or was lifted? Common sense here.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Restraining orders are complicated. It could be a stalker or domestic abuse or something more serious. Wouldn't it be prudent if the Court ruled that the subject of a restraining order be prevented from purchasing a firearm until the order expired or was lifted? Common sense here.

The 5th amendment creates a threshold for the removal of someone's rights.
A restraining order does not meet that threshold.
If it did, a restraining order would also be enough to pyt someone in jail.

 

[Coyote]

Of course…a restraining order should not restrict the 2A rights one iota…not even temporarily! Apparently 2A overrules the right to life.

Victim asked twice for protection orders against man accused of killing her, her daughter

Lindsay Daum tried to ban Javier Acevedo from having a gun. A court in Larimer County denied a permanent protection order twice.

www.9news.com

A woman in Loveland twice asked a judge to make her ex-boyfriend give up his guns and stay away from her home before he killed her and her 16-year-old daughter.
Both times, a court denied a permanent protection order.
Police say Javier Acevedo, 49, shot and killed Meadow Sinner and her mom, Lindsay Daum, about a month after a court denied the permanent protection order a second time.

Man Under Restraining Order Killed Four People at Colorado Home and Went on the Run: Police

Cops are looking for a man who allegedly killed four people at a Colorado home.

lawandcrime.com

Woman killed after filing protection from abuse order, police say

Marquis Burney, the ex-boyfriend of a woman shot and killed in South Philadelphia hours after filing a protection from abuse order, faces charges in her murder. Investigators are looking into another domestic violence incident.

www.audacy.com

Man kills 3 daughters, 1 other, himself at California church

There is a large law enforcement presence at the scene in the Arden-Arcade neighborhood.

www.fox19.com

Man charged with attempted murder, restraining order violation in shooting of ex-girlfriend at gas station

Shakur A. Wright of Trenton charged with shooting his ex-girlfriend at a Hamilton gas station

www.nj.com

 

[M14 Shooter]

Of course…a restraining order should not restrict the 2A rights one iota…not even temporarily! Apparently 2A overrules the right to life.

Your knee-jerk reaction illustrates your ignorance.

The 5th amendment creates a threshold for the removal of someone's rights.
A restraining order does not meet that threshold.
If it did, a restraining order would also be enough to put someone in jail.

 

[2aguy]

Of course…a restraining order should not restrict the 2A rights one iota…not even temporarily! Apparently 2A overrules the right to life.

Victim asked twice for protection orders against man accused of killing her, her daughter

Lindsay Daum tried to ban Javier Acevedo from having a gun. A court in Larimer County denied a permanent protection order twice.

www.9news.com

A woman in Loveland twice asked a judge to make her ex-boyfriend give up his guns and stay away from her home before he killed her and her 16-year-old daughter.
Both times, a court denied a permanent protection order.
Police say Javier Acevedo, 49, shot and killed Meadow Sinner and her mom, Lindsay Daum, about a month after a court denied the permanent protection order a second time.

Man Under Restraining Order Killed Four People at Colorado Home and Went on the Run: Police

Cops are looking for a man who allegedly killed four people at a Colorado home.

lawandcrime.com

Woman killed after filing protection from abuse order, police say

Marquis Burney, the ex-boyfriend of a woman shot and killed in South Philadelphia hours after filing a protection from abuse order, faces charges in her murder. Investigators are looking into another domestic violence incident.

www.audacy.com

Man kills 3 daughters, 1 other, himself at California church

There is a large law enforcement presence at the scene in the Arden-Arcade neighborhood.

www.fox19.com

Man charged with attempted murder, restraining order violation in shooting of ex-girlfriend at gas station

Shakur A. Wright of Trenton charged with shooting his ex-girlfriend at a Hamilton gas station

www.nj.com

This will be funny…..

Coyote…….

Please explain to the viewing audience how a restraining order prevents someone who has crossed the line from stalking to actual murder from committing murder…..

Please explain how that restraining order prevents someone who has crossed from stalking to actual murder from breaking the law that says he cant have a gun….…

we will wait.


What fools like you don’t understand is that the moment you place a restraining order on a violent ex, you start the murder clock ticking. The restraining order is usually the thing that sends the stalker into killer mode. What should have happened is the victims should have been given guns and free training in how to use them….that is the only thing that would have given them a chance to survive when their ex ignores the piece of paper and attacks them….,,

 

[fncceo]

It could be a stalker or domestic abuse or something more serious.

A restraining order is a civil order from a court. Domestic abuse, stalking, and more serious offense are crimes.

 

[2aguy]

Of course…a restraining order should not restrict the 2A rights one iota…not even temporarily! Apparently 2A overrules the right to life.

Victim asked twice for protection orders against man accused of killing her, her daughter

Lindsay Daum tried to ban Javier Acevedo from having a gun. A court in Larimer County denied a permanent protection order twice.

www.9news.com

A woman in Loveland twice asked a judge to make her ex-boyfriend give up his guns and stay away from her home before he killed her and her 16-year-old daughter.
Both times, a court denied a permanent protection order.
Police say Javier Acevedo, 49, shot and killed Meadow Sinner and her mom, Lindsay Daum, about a month after a court denied the permanent protection order a second time.

Man Under Restraining Order Killed Four People at Colorado Home and Went on the Run: Police

Cops are looking for a man who allegedly killed four people at a Colorado home.

lawandcrime.com

Woman killed after filing protection from abuse order, police say

Marquis Burney, the ex-boyfriend of a woman shot and killed in South Philadelphia hours after filing a protection from abuse order, faces charges in her murder. Investigators are looking into another domestic violence incident.

www.audacy.com

Man kills 3 daughters, 1 other, himself at California church

There is a large law enforcement presence at the scene in the Arden-Arcade neighborhood.

www.fox19.com

Man charged with attempted murder, restraining order violation in shooting of ex-girlfriend at gas station

Shakur A. Wright of Trenton charged with shooting his ex-girlfriend at a Hamilton gas station

www.nj.com

Personal Protection expert Gavin Debecker explains how dumb you are………,

Gavin de Becker, founder of Gavin de Becker Inc. and author of the "Gift of Fear," says the documents rarely restrain or protect the victims.

"The fact that so many of these murderers also commit suicide tells us that refusing to accept rejection is more important to them than life itself," de Becker said in his book. "Restraining orders are most effective on the reasonable person who has a limited emotional investment. In other words, they work best on the person least likely to be violent anyway."

According to the Missouri Coalition Against Domestic Violence, a woman is beaten every 15 seconds by her partner in the United States and one-third of all women killed in the United States are killed by a male partner.

The "Gift of Fear" also notes restraining orders are issued at a rate of more than 1,000 a day.

De Becker says the danger of restraining orders is that they give victims a false sense of safety. The piece of paper will not stop a bullet, knife or fist, he said. The victim must realize that the title of the court document is often misleading
——————
Mirroring MacIver and Avery's suggestion, de Becker said battered women's shelters provide "the best way to be safe." A victim should apply strategies that make her unavailable to her pursuer.

De Becker said restraining orders are a victim's option, but not the only option.

"I believe prosecutions are an important deterrent to further abuse," de Becker said, "but even then, the women must be prepared for the possibility of escalation. The bottom line is that there is only one good reason to get a restraining order in a case of wife abuse: The woman believes the man will honor it and leave her alone. If the victim or a professional in the system gets a restraining order to stop someone from committing murder, they have probably applied the wrong strategy."

The author said shelters understand what many law-enforcement officials don't — the issue is not about justice, but safety.

Restraining orders don't stop murder

At about midnight on Friday, Oct. 13, Eduino Sampaio parked his car in the woods near his former home, where his wife and 3-year-old child were sleeping. As Sampaio approached the house in Derry, h…

www.seacoastonline.com

 

[SavannahMann]

Well then perhaps we should approach this from another direction. Let’s make it a most serious crime to violate a Restraining Order. If you do so you get 20 years minimum. If you actually assault the individual who took out the Restraining Order. It is Life without parole. If you murder them, death penalty.

And since one of the Supreme Court decisions regarding the duty of the police to protect the citizens was an Ex Husband and Father who took his kids and murdered them. If the police don’t enforce the Order they get no less than ten years in prison for dereliction of duty. How about that?

Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

This way the individual 2nd Amendment Rights are protected and even if the victim of Domestic Abuse is not, we insure the criminals are held accountable. Sound fair?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Well then perhaps we should approach this from another direction. Let’s make it a most serious crime to violate a Restraining Order. If you do so you get 20 years minimum. If you actually assault the individual who took out the Restraining Order. It is Life without parole. If you murder them, death penalty.

If you can get a legislature to agree to this, more power to you.
Until then, teach your daughters to shoot.

 

[SavannahMann]

If you can get a legislature to agree to this, more power to you.
Until then, teach your daughters to shoot.

And then my Daughters would be convicted of Murder for killing their abusers.

Florida woman sentenced to 20 years in controversial warning shot case | CNN

A judge sentenced a Florida woman to 20 years in prison Friday for firing a warning shot in an effort to scare off her abusive husband.

www.cnn.com

 

[M14 Shooter]

And then my Daughters would be convicted of Murder for killing their abusers.

Not if they obey the law.

 

[SavannahMann]

Not if they obey the law.

The Woman in Florida was attacked by her Husband. She fired a warning shot to stop the attack. She was convicted of Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon and sentenced to 20 years. The Judge disallowed her claim of self defense and stand your ground.

Now. What more was she supposed to do?

 

[M14 Shooter]

The Woman in Florida was attacked by her Husband. She fired a warning shot to stop the attack. She was convicted of Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon and sentenced to 20 years. The Judge disallowed her claim of self defense and stand your ground.

There must be more to it than this.

 

[SavannahMann]

There must be more to it than this.

I posted the link. Check it out for yourself.