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Since when does the Catholic Church have the right to force their religious values...

Nickle's worth of free advice.

Free birth control = no sex.

You don't have a right to any other kind for free.

The affordable care act provides for free preventive services starting around Sept 2010. It will probably save insurance companies a bundle of money too.

Preventive Services Covered Under the Affordable Care Act | HealthCare.gov

Nothing is 'free'. Someone pays for it. If not you, who? Me? Fuck that.

Preventive care is CHEAPER than waiting until there's a problem. That's why most people (the smart ones, anyway) regularly change the oil in their cars.

Preventive care will cost both YOU, and OTHER PEOPLE in the network, and your EMPLOYER, and the INSURANCE CO far less money in the long run.

Or you can choose to be penny wise and pound foolish.
 
Maybe a question would be in order at this point.

Under the provision of insurance companies providing free birth control to all insured people if it's requested, is anyone, whether Catholic or non Catholic, FORCED to use the benefit or actually USE birth control?

Under what auspices should an Insurence company be forced to provide anything they don't wish to?

The Government has NO authority to force them to do anything.

Whether you like it or not, insurance companies have been highly regulated since forever, in part, to prevent fraud and to prevent companies from walking away from their legal obligations.

Nowadays, conservatives en masse seem to embrace the ridiculous notion that all regulation is bad. That's not the case by a long shot. Want an example?

Ever notice how earthquakes in China, and other less developed countries kill hundreds of thousands of people? Do you know why that happens? Because there aren't any gov't regulations about minimum construction standards, or they're simply not followed. Shoddy construction leads to buildings collapsing on the inhabitants.

If corporations are left to decide for themselves what they will and won't do, they'll cut corners to cut costs, and they will cheat people if there are no laws to prevent or punish them. That's because the love of money is a corrupting influence. Has the 2008 financial collapse taught you nothing?
Doen't make it right or give free liscense to Gubmint to force them to cover squat.

The free market will take care of itself when these companies lose business on thier own without gubmint dictating from on high.

You have no idea of economic liberty, do you?
 
Under what auspices should an Insurence company be forced to provide anything they don't wish to?

The Government has NO authority to force them to do anything.

Whether you like it or not, insurance companies have been highly regulated since forever, in part, to prevent fraud and to prevent companies from walking away from their legal obligations.

Nowadays, conservatives en masse seem to embrace the ridiculous notion that all regulation is bad. That's not the case by a long shot. Want an example?

Ever notice how earthquakes in China, and other less developed countries kill hundreds of thousands of people? Do you know why that happens? Because there aren't any gov't regulations about minimum construction standards, or they're simply not followed. Shoddy construction leads to buildings collapsing on the inhabitants.

If corporations are left to decide for themselves what they will and won't do, they'll cut corners to cut costs, and they will cheat people if there are no laws to prevent or punish them. That's because the love of money is a corrupting influence. Has the 2008 financial collapse taught you nothing?
Doen't make it right or give free liscense to Gubmint to force them to cover squat.

The free market will take care of itself when these companies lose business on thier own without gubmint dictating from on high.

You have no idea of economic liberty, do you?

For all you conservatives who see yourselves as constitutional scholars, check out the commerce clause!
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvFLNvQ93bQ]Chess Endgames- Checkmate with Two Bishops - YouTube[/ame]
 
The affordable care act provides for free preventive services starting around Sept 2010. It will probably save insurance companies a bundle of money too.

Preventive Services Covered Under the Affordable Care Act | HealthCare.gov

Nothing is 'free'. Someone pays for it. If not you, who? Me? Fuck that.

Preventive care is CHEAPER than waiting until there's a problem. That's why most people (the smart ones, anyway) regularly change the oil in their cars.

Preventive care will cost both YOU, and OTHER PEOPLE in the network, and your EMPLOYER, and the INSURANCE CO far less money in the long run.

Or you can choose to be penny wise and pound foolish.
This is not the same as an oil change. Sex is a choice. If you can't keep your dick in your pants or your legs closed, nobody owes you a method to keep pregnancy from happening.
 
The affordable care act provides for free preventive services starting around Sept 2010. It will probably save insurance companies a bundle of money too.

Preventive Services Covered Under the Affordable Care Act | HealthCare.gov

Nothing is 'free'. Someone pays for it. If not you, who? Me? Fuck that.

Preventive care is CHEAPER than waiting until there's a problem. That's why most people (the smart ones, anyway) regularly change the oil in their cars.

Preventive care will cost both YOU, and OTHER PEOPLE in the network, and your EMPLOYER, and the INSURANCE CO far less money in the long run.

Or you can choose to be penny wise and pound foolish.

The point is that I can't choose. You're choosing for me... and that is wrong.
 
Whether you like it or not, insurance companies have been highly regulated since forever, in part, to prevent fraud and to prevent companies from walking away from their legal obligations.

Nowadays, conservatives en masse seem to embrace the ridiculous notion that all regulation is bad. That's not the case by a long shot. Want an example?

Ever notice how earthquakes in China, and other less developed countries kill hundreds of thousands of people? Do you know why that happens? Because there aren't any gov't regulations about minimum construction standards, or they're simply not followed. Shoddy construction leads to buildings collapsing on the inhabitants.

If corporations are left to decide for themselves what they will and won't do, they'll cut corners to cut costs, and they will cheat people if there are no laws to prevent or punish them. That's because the love of money is a corrupting influence. Has the 2008 financial collapse taught you nothing?
Doen't make it right or give free liscense to Gubmint to force them to cover squat.

The free market will take care of itself when these companies lose business on thier own without gubmint dictating from on high.

You have no idea of economic liberty, do you?

For all you conservatives who see yourselves as constitutional scholars, check out the commerce clause!
the vastly distorted definition of commerce clause that violates the very need for the constitution? Or the original intent of the clause that minimizes government?
 
What most Catholics are wondering is the same as everyone else. What's next. obama has been warring against religion since he took office. What this latest assault has done more than anything else, is remind people of everything else he's done. Can obama control himself and restrain himself for the next nine months? Nope. This will fester and grow and irritate. Hopefully the next attack on religion lances the boil.
 
Nothing is 'free'. Someone pays for it. If not you, who? Me? Fuck that.

Preventive care is CHEAPER than waiting until there's a problem. That's why most people (the smart ones, anyway) regularly change the oil in their cars.

Preventive care will cost both YOU, and OTHER PEOPLE in the network, and your EMPLOYER, and the INSURANCE CO far less money in the long run.

Or you can choose to be penny wise and pound foolish.

The point is that I can't choose. You're choosing for me... and that is wrong.

Sure you can choose. You can choose to not avail yourself of preventive services
 
Preventive care is CHEAPER than waiting until there's a problem. That's why most people (the smart ones, anyway) regularly change the oil in their cars.

Preventive care will cost both YOU, and OTHER PEOPLE in the network, and your EMPLOYER, and the INSURANCE CO far less money in the long run.

Or you can choose to be penny wise and pound foolish.

The point is that I can't choose. You're choosing for me... and that is wrong.

Sure you can choose. You can choose to not avail yourself of preventive services

But, as the AHA stands, I cannot opt out of paying for it. Why?

This AHA clusterfuck tramples on the Constitution. I don't care what it prevents, what it provides, what it does or does not do. It is unConstitutional.

Forcing my faith to give up the 'free enterprise thereof' is against the constitution. As I said previously.... this is not a debate... it is our right and we will have it. Not you, not Obama, not the Democrats, not all the angels and saints can take that right from us. It is ours. Endowed by our creator. Fuck Obama. He will not override the Constitution.
 
The point is that I can't choose. You're choosing for me... and that is wrong.

Sure you can choose. You can choose to not avail yourself of preventive services

But, as the AHA stands, I cannot opt out of paying for it. Why?

This AHA clusterfuck tramples on the Constitution. I don't care what it prevents, what it provides, what it does or does not do. It is unConstitutional.

Forcing my faith to give up the 'free enterprise thereof' is against the constitution. As I said previously.... this is not a debate... it is our right and we will have it. Not you, not Obama, not the Democrats, not all the angels and saints can take that right from us. It is ours. Endowed by our creator. Fuck Obama. He will not override the Constitution.

What are you talking about?

You can completely opt out by choosing not to be insured at all. Then you will have EXACTLY what you claim it is you want. You won't be forced to subsidize anyone else's health care (which is what insurance basically does), AND nobody will be forced to subsidize YOUR health care. Then, if and when you get sick or injured, you can pay the full freight of the cost.

Good luck!
 
Sure you can choose. You can choose to not avail yourself of preventive services

But, as the AHA stands, I cannot opt out of paying for it. Why?

This AHA clusterfuck tramples on the Constitution. I don't care what it prevents, what it provides, what it does or does not do. It is unConstitutional.

Forcing my faith to give up the 'free enterprise thereof' is against the constitution. As I said previously.... this is not a debate... it is our right and we will have it. Not you, not Obama, not the Democrats, not all the angels and saints can take that right from us. It is ours. Endowed by our creator. Fuck Obama. He will not override the Constitution.

What are you talking about?

You can completely opt out by choosing not to be insured at all. Then you will have EXACTLY what you claim it is you want. You won't be forced to subsidize anyone else's health care (which is what insurance basically does), AND nobody will be forced to subsidize YOUR health care. Then, if and when you get sick or injured, you can pay the full freight of the cost.

Good luck!

My Church cannot. And that 'accommodation' - they have no right to 'accommodate' us. It's not for them to 'accommodate'. It is for us to claim our First Amendment Rights. You keep telling yourself its about 'birth control' or 'healthcare'.... that's fine. To us, it is the First Amendment.

And, I can easily afford whatever ills befall me. Because I am a grown up and take care of myself. I don't need government looking after me... and I will not accept it looking after you at my expense.
 
But, as the AHA stands, I cannot opt out of paying for it. Why?

This AHA clusterfuck tramples on the Constitution. I don't care what it prevents, what it provides, what it does or does not do. It is unConstitutional.

Forcing my faith to give up the 'free enterprise thereof' is against the constitution. As I said previously.... this is not a debate... it is our right and we will have it. Not you, not Obama, not the Democrats, not all the angels and saints can take that right from us. It is ours. Endowed by our creator. Fuck Obama. He will not override the Constitution.

What are you talking about?

You can completely opt out by choosing not to be insured at all. Then you will have EXACTLY what you claim it is you want. You won't be forced to subsidize anyone else's health care (which is what insurance basically does), AND nobody will be forced to subsidize YOUR health care. Then, if and when you get sick or injured, you can pay the full freight of the cost.

Good luck!

My Church cannot. And that 'accommodation' - they have no right to 'accommodate' us. It's not for them to 'accommodate'. It is for us to claim our First Amendment Rights. You keep telling yourself its about 'birth control' or 'healthcare'.... that's fine. To us, it is the First Amendment.

And, I can easily afford whatever ills befall me. Because I am a grown up and take care of myself. I don't need government looking after me... and I will not accept it looking after you at my expense.

Self-sufficiency is usually an illusion, even among the rich.
 
What are you talking about?

You can completely opt out by choosing not to be insured at all. Then you will have EXACTLY what you claim it is you want. You won't be forced to subsidize anyone else's health care (which is what insurance basically does), AND nobody will be forced to subsidize YOUR health care. Then, if and when you get sick or injured, you can pay the full freight of the cost.

Good luck!

My Church cannot. And that 'accommodation' - they have no right to 'accommodate' us. It's not for them to 'accommodate'. It is for us to claim our First Amendment Rights. You keep telling yourself its about 'birth control' or 'healthcare'.... that's fine. To us, it is the First Amendment.

And, I can easily afford whatever ills befall me. Because I am a grown up and take care of myself. I don't need government looking after me... and I will not accept it looking after you at my expense.

Self-sufficiency is usually an illusion, even among the rich.

I pay my taxes.... in two countries.

I find it fascinating that, as yet, not one liberal can challenge the actual validity of the First Amendment argument.
 
My Church cannot. And that 'accommodation' - they have no right to 'accommodate' us. It's not for them to 'accommodate'. It is for us to claim our First Amendment Rights. You keep telling yourself its about 'birth control' or 'healthcare'.... that's fine. To us, it is the First Amendment.

And, I can easily afford whatever ills befall me. Because I am a grown up and take care of myself. I don't need government looking after me... and I will not accept it looking after you at my expense.

Self-sufficiency is usually an illusion, even among the rich.

I pay my taxes.... in two countries.

I find it fascinating that, as yet, not one liberal can challenge the actual validity of the First Amendment argument.

So what?

What I witness is that conservatives take their arguments to illogical extremes. If you don't want to pay for someone else's benefits in an insurance program, don't sign up for insurance. It's that simple. Either deal with the fact that insurance is a pool of risk and a pool of funds which allows people to receive benefits beyond their contribution when they get ill, and stop bellyaching about it. Or don't sign up for it, and stop whining about it.
 
The affordable care act provides for free preventive services starting around Sept 2010. It will probably save insurance companies a bundle of money too.

Preventive Services Covered Under the Affordable Care Act | HealthCare.gov

Nothing is 'free'. Someone pays for it. If not you, who? Me? Fuck that.

Preventive care is CHEAPER than waiting until there's a problem. That's why most people (the smart ones, anyway) regularly change the oil in their cars.

Preventive care will cost both YOU, and OTHER PEOPLE in the network, and your EMPLOYER, and the INSURANCE CO far less money in the long run.

Or you can choose to be penny wise and pound foolish.

And I have a choice, change my oil or not to change my oil. Just as an employer has a right to decide which type of health care to offer their employees.

Choice that is the key, freedom to live your life the way you see fit, not have others force their lifestyle or their wishes upon you. Not have government tell you that you have to violate your conscience because they arbitrarily chose that you should.
 
Self-sufficiency is usually an illusion, even among the rich.

I pay my taxes.... in two countries.

I find it fascinating that, as yet, not one liberal can challenge the actual validity of the First Amendment argument.

So what?

What I witness is that conservatives take their arguments to illogical extremes. If you don't want to pay for someone else's benefits in an insurance program, don't sign up for insurance. It's that simple. Either deal with the fact that insurance is a pool of risk and a pool of funds which allows people to receive benefits beyond their contribution when they get ill, and stop bellyaching about it. Or don't sign up for it, and stop whining about it.

It is not 'that simple'. This is about a government overreaching its Constitutional authority.

We have a Constitution that governs this nation - it is not about what you want, or what I want but what is Constitutional. That is why this ridiculous bullshit about forcing faith based charities to pay for birth control is an issue... not the birth control, the over reach of government. By defining faith based charities as outside of 'religion', they are defining what is 'religion' and they do not have the right to do that. Look at the First Amendment. It's very clear.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

By defining faith based charities as outside that definition, they are over reaching their authority. Faiths see their charities as 'the free exercise' of our religion. For Christians, for Catholics.... it is a fundamental religious duty. You don't like that.... that's fine.... but it does not make it any less true. That is why the churches - not just the Catholic Church - are pissed.

What you 'witness' is irrelevant. It is not just conservatives - there's a whole bunch of Democrats on the side of the Churches. An inconvenient truth... but a truth nonetheless.
 
Self-sufficiency is usually an illusion, even among the rich.

I pay my taxes.... in two countries.

I find it fascinating that, as yet, not one liberal can challenge the actual validity of the First Amendment argument.

So what?

What I witness is that conservatives take their arguments to illogical extremes. If you don't want to pay for someone else's benefits in an insurance program, don't sign up for insurance. It's that simple. Either deal with the fact that insurance is a pool of risk and a pool of funds which allows people to receive benefits beyond their contribution when they get ill, and stop bellyaching about it. Or don't sign up for it, and stop whining about it.

We can chose whether to have insurance now, but in the near future, we will be required to carry insurance as requirement set forth by a government.
No choice.
 
Yes

and everyone knows that Papa Obama, his family, friends will have the same exact doctor
and care as anyone else

Just like public school and kids.......eh..

oh never mind
:eusa_whistle:
 
Nickle's worth of free advice.

Free birth control = no sex.

You don't have a right to any other kind for free.

The affordable care act provides for free preventive services starting around Sept 2010. It will probably save insurance companies a bundle of money too.

Preventive Services Covered Under the Affordable Care Act | HealthCare.gov

Nothing is 'free'. Someone pays for it. If not you, who? Me? Fuck that.

Your work pays for your employer provided healthcare. That's why your employer gives it to you.

In exchange for your work. If you had a job, you'd know that.
 

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