Since when does the Catholic Church have the right to force their religious values...

[Neotrotsky]

Their mosques are exempt. Their charities mainly are - because they treat only Muslims and employ Muslims. However, many Muslim groups - and individuals - have sided with the Catholic Church on this.

No doubt

but it is still open
could Muslims try to claim exemption, to Papa ObamaCare itself, as individuals
due to their religion
similar as to the Amish

I have no doubt , the Left is not for this at all

Obama has opened up a can of worms that he may not recover from.

Indeed, what a bag of goods the MSM and the Left passed
off to the American People with Papa Obama

---------------

There are a few reasons why someone could claim exemption to Papa Obama care..

being a member of a religion that does not believe in insurance could be one of them.

Muslims could argue that health insurance is “haraam”, or forbidden; because they liken insurance to gambling. This belief could exclude them from any of the requirements, mandates, or penalties set forth in the bill.

Of course, since Papa ObamaCare was so open ended and will now live in a Banana Republic where we have to wait for dictates from the gov't on what we can do,,,,

Time will only tell where this could go

I do see, however, a hard time for the Left....
How to choose between two things that chip away at American tradition

Really what is a Leftist to do

Choose in favor of a religion that is in competition to Christianity over the increase of Statist control
or
Choose in favor of an increase in Statist control over a religion that is in competition to Christianity ?

 

[The T]

No doubt

but it is still open
could Muslims try to claim exemption, to Papa ObamaCare itself, as individuals
due to their religion
similar as to the Amish

I have no doubt , the Left is not for this at all

Obama has opened up a can of worms that he may not recover from.

Indeed, what a bag of goods the MSM and the Left passed
off to the American People with Papa Obama

---------------

There are a few reasons why someone could claim exemption to Papa Obama care..

being a member of a religion that does not believe in insurance could be one of them.

Muslims could argue that health insurance is “haraam”, or forbidden; because they liken insurance to gambling. This belief could exclude them from any of the requirements, mandates, or penalties set forth in the bill.

Of course, since Papa ObamaCare was so open ended and will now live in a Banana Republic where we have to wait for dictates from the gov't on what we can do,,,,

Time will only tell where this could go

I do see, however, a hard time for the Left....
How to choose between two things that chip away at American tradition

Really what is a Leftist to do

Choose in favor of a religion that is in competition to Christianity over the increase of Statist control
or
Choose in favor of an increase in Statist control over a religion that is in competition to Christianity ?

While trampling on the individual, and the Constitution that was set to protect the individual. You're correct.

 

[The T]

Oh, and since no one has answered the original question: 1791.

Correct. Don't like it? Don't work for or associate. The issue is larger than just the Catholic Church.

That is the way I see it, it's an assault on our liberties and the Constitution.

That's precisely what it is. Obama has no authority to make such dictates or even back away from it and tell Insurance companies they now have to do it.

This issue will weigh heavily in the ObamaCare decision coming from the SCOTUS in June.

 

[logical4u]

The affordable care act provides for free preventive services starting around Sept 2010. It will probably save insurance companies a bundle of money too.

Preventive Services Covered Under the Affordable Care Act | HealthCare.gov

Nothing is 'free'. Someone pays for it. If not you, who? Me? Fuck that.

Preventive care is CHEAPER than waiting until there's a problem. That's why most people (the smart ones, anyway) regularly change the oil in their cars.

Preventive care will cost both YOU, and OTHER PEOPLE in the network, and your EMPLOYER, and the INSURANCE CO far less money in the long run.

Or you can choose to be penny wise and pound foolish.

You still haven't explained why OTHER people are being forced to pay for the "opportunity" to have provided birth control for many people that claim they can't afford birth control. If the gov't is forcing people to pay for others' birth control, how long before a MANDATE will be passed down from the DICTATOR (President) forcing women (or actually forcing men to be "stapled" would be less expensive and more effective, especially if you round up inter-city school boys under 12 because that is where ALL the unwanted pregnancies are, according to libs, plus the precident has already been set with abortions being done without parental consent) to undergo long term birth prevention (there will be no accountability for the lives ruined due to mistakes because the "gov't" owns your body as declared in the health care bill)


I know, all you people (libs/leftists/socialists/communists/homosexual activists/envirnomentalists/islamic extremists) all say the same thing: this time IT WILL BE DIFFERENT. And then millions of people die, and the next bunch of suckers says the same thing: that was last time, but this time, IT WILL BE DIFFERENT. I wish you would stick to murdering the people of your mindset, instead of making everyone that disagrees with you pay the price.

 

[logical4u]

Whether you like it or not, insurance companies have been highly regulated since forever, in part, to prevent fraud and to prevent companies from walking away from their legal obligations.

Nowadays, conservatives en masse seem to embrace the ridiculous notion that all regulation is bad. That's not the case by a long shot. Want an example?

Ever notice how earthquakes in China, and other less developed countries kill hundreds of thousands of people? Do you know why that happens? Because there aren't any gov't regulations about minimum construction standards, or they're simply not followed. Shoddy construction leads to buildings collapsing on the inhabitants.

If corporations are left to decide for themselves what they will and won't do, they'll cut corners to cut costs, and they will cheat people if there are no laws to prevent or punish them. That's because the love of money is a corrupting influence. Has the 2008 financial collapse taught you nothing?

Doen't make it right or give free liscense to Gubmint to force them to cover squat.

The free market will take care of itself when these companies lose business on thier own without gubmint dictating from on high.

You have no idea of economic liberty, do you?

For all you conservatives who see yourselves as constitutional scholars, check out the commerce clause!

Newsflash: because of the abolishment of slavery, people are not commodities.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Nothing is 'free'. Someone pays for it. If not you, who? Me? Fuck that.

Preventive care is CHEAPER than waiting until there's a problem. That's why most people (the smart ones, anyway) regularly change the oil in their cars.

Preventive care will cost both YOU, and OTHER PEOPLE in the network, and your EMPLOYER, and the INSURANCE CO far less money in the long run.

Or you can choose to be penny wise and pound foolish.

Preventive care refers to preventing illness.
Since when is pregnancy an illness and not a voluntary condition?

 

[saveliberty]

You want cheap? How about don't recreationly screw? Your lack of preparedness and responsibility is not the fault of the insurance company or any of us. How about you step up and pay for your play?

 

[Papageorgio]

Does anyone else get the feeling that Obama sits in the White House at night talking to Michelle, saying "Why can't these people just shut up and do what I say! I know what's best for them! The keep clinging to God and guns, those stupid bastards!"

 

[Neotrotsky]

In between the wagyu steaks and vodka martinis

sure

 

[Cecilie1200]

...and check thier mailbox for thier latest welfare check...

Oh that's now delivered electronically on the first of the month, or earlier if it falls on a weekend. Saves them having to go out or down to the mailbox where they'd associate with humans.

Really? You mean the moochers are so poor that they have computers? Internet access? Really? /Tongue-in-cheek...

You don't have to have Internet access or a computer to get your welfare check electronically. All welfare benefits are now tied to the EBT card, the little credit card-looking thing they use for their food stamps. Cash payments are direct-deposited to the cash account on that card, and the food stamps are direct-deposited in the food account.

 

[saveliberty]

Saves on postage. Also probably makes it easier to sell the card and increase fraud.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Maybe a question would be in order at this point.

Under the provision of insurance companies providing free birth control to all insured people if it's requested, is anyone, whether Catholic or non Catholic, FORCED to use the benefit or actually USE birth control?

Maybe another question would be in order at this point.

Where did you get the asinine idea that the insurance companies are providing ANYTHING for "free"?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Whether you like it or not, insurance companies have been highly regulated since forever, in part, to prevent fraud and to prevent companies from walking away from their legal obligations.

Nowadays, conservatives en masse seem to embrace the ridiculous notion that all regulation is bad. That's not the case by a long shot. Want an example?

Ever notice how earthquakes in China, and other less developed countries kill hundreds of thousands of people? Do you know why that happens? Because there aren't any gov't regulations about minimum construction standards, or they're simply not followed. Shoddy construction leads to buildings collapsing on the inhabitants.

If corporations are left to decide for themselves what they will and won't do, they'll cut corners to cut costs, and they will cheat people if there are no laws to prevent or punish them. That's because the love of money is a corrupting influence. Has the 2008 financial collapse taught you nothing?

Doen't make it right or give free liscense to Gubmint to force them to cover squat.

The free market will take care of itself when these companies lose business on thier own without gubmint dictating from on high.

You have no idea of economic liberty, do you?

For all you conservatives who see yourselves as constitutional scholars, check out the commerce clause!

Which, as usual when leftist dumbasses cloak themselves in the Constitution, has fuck-all to do with the issue at hand.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Preventive care is CHEAPER than waiting until there's a problem. That's why most people (the smart ones, anyway) regularly change the oil in their cars.

Preventive care will cost both YOU, and OTHER PEOPLE in the network, and your EMPLOYER, and the INSURANCE CO far less money in the long run.

Or you can choose to be penny wise and pound foolish.

The point is that I can't choose. You're choosing for me... and that is wrong.

Sure you can choose. You can choose to not avail yourself of preventive services

That wasn't even a good attempt at a dodge. That whole "look over there, and forget the topic of conversation!" thing only works on people as stupid as you, aka other liberals.

Are we talking about people being forced to USE birth control, you disingenuous shitforbrains? No, I don't believe we are. We're talking about people being forced to pay for OTHER people's birth control against their beliefs that it is wrong, as you very damned well know, and CG is talking about not being able to choose whether or not to pay for other people's birth control, as you ALSO very damned well know, so stop feigning even more obtuse ignorance than nature actually gave you and RESPOND TO THE GODDAMNED POINT, Poltroon!

 

[saveliberty]

Even Obama knows he's lost this one Mustang. Time to run up the white flag and hope we forget by November. Of course, I'll be right here to remind everyone....

 

[Cecilie1200]

Sure you can choose. You can choose to not avail yourself of preventive services

But, as the AHA stands, I cannot opt out of paying for it. Why?

This AHA clusterfuck tramples on the Constitution. I don't care what it prevents, what it provides, what it does or does not do. It is unConstitutional.

Forcing my faith to give up the 'free enterprise thereof' is against the constitution. As I said previously.... this is not a debate... it is our right and we will have it. Not you, not Obama, not the Democrats, not all the angels and saints can take that right from us. It is ours. Endowed by our creator. Fuck Obama. He will not override the Constitution.

What are you talking about?

You can completely opt out by choosing not to be insured at all. Then you will have EXACTLY what you claim it is you want. You won't be forced to subsidize anyone else's health care (which is what insurance basically does), AND nobody will be forced to subsidize YOUR health care. Then, if and when you get sick or injured, you can pay the full freight of the cost.

Good luck!

She's talking about the actual topic of the thread, flatliner. Did your ADHD kick in and make you forget what the thread is about?

 

[NYcarbineer]

They are welcome to seek employment elsewhere.

Not according the CRA which bars employers who serve the public from discriminating based on religion.

So they can't seek employment elsewhere?
Loo, employment is not an entitlement. We have no indentured servitude here. No one is stuck with their current employment situation.

Operating a business outside the law isn't an entitlement either.

 

[saveliberty]

Sure you can choose. You can choose to not avail yourself of preventive services

But, as the AHA stands, I cannot opt out of paying for it. Why?

This AHA clusterfuck tramples on the Constitution. I don't care what it prevents, what it provides, what it does or does not do. It is unConstitutional.

Forcing my faith to give up the 'free enterprise thereof' is against the constitution. As I said previously.... this is not a debate... it is our right and we will have it. Not you, not Obama, not the Democrats, not all the angels and saints can take that right from us. It is ours. Endowed by our creator. Fuck Obama. He will not override the Constitution.

What are you talking about?

You can completely opt out by choosing not to be insured at all. Then you will have EXACTLY what you claim it is you want. You won't be forced to subsidize anyone else's health care (which is what insurance basically does), AND nobody will be forced to subsidize YOUR health care. Then, if and when you get sick or injured, you can pay the full freight of the cost.

Good luck!

Under Omabacare you pay a penalty for not having coverage, which ironicly goes into a fund to help pay for those who want it be entitlement. You have failed again. At least you have a perfect record....

 

[Cecilie1200]

Saves on postage. Also probably makes it easier to sell the card and increase fraud.

Actually, it cuts down quite a bit on fraud, I'm told. NOTHING is going to remove it entirely.

In addition to saving on postage, it saves on paper and printing costs, and is much, MUCH less labor-intensive than the old checks and food stamp booklets.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Correct. Don't like it? Don't work for or associate. The issue is larger than just the Catholic Church.

That is the way I see it, it's an assault on our liberties and the Constitution.

That's precisely what it is. Obama has no authority to make such dictates or even back away from it and tell Insurance companies they now have to do it.
This issue will weigh heavily in the ObamaCare decision coming from the SCOTUS in June.

The decision Obaam made to 'modify' the policy is simply a change in wording. Essentially the ruling is the same. Obama simply threw it at the insurance carrier.
I would not be shocked if Obama thinks this is going to simply go away.
If the GOP has any serious ideas about challenging Obama's reign, it will make this a major campaign issue