So actually a shattered wall took out the Dallas Shooter

[koshergrl]

The objective is not to KILL suspects. Its to bring them into custody. You morons who think it's a good idea to let cops act as judge, jury, executioners arengoing tonseriiusly regret your stupidity in the very near future.

It would be an execution only if they plugged him after he was in custody, or had surrendered and was sitting there with his hands up. When you are still an active threat, there can be no execution.

You get your due process when you allow the process to start, i.e. you submit to lawful authority, not before.

Actually, no. That's not true.

Why not? If you go with that line of logic, than that idiot who says "you can't self defend yourself because it violates due process" has a point. Due process is when you are IN the system, and accept it's authority.

Hunkering down and taking pot shots at officers while screaming you are going to kill them is not entering the system.

You DON'T HAVE TO ENTER THE SYSTEM TO GET DUE PROCESS cripes, I thought you had a grasp of the constitution!

And no, it DOESN'T apply to self defense..which this instance was NOT. It would have been self defense if they had killed him while he was shooting. Once he's contained, and not shooting, it's no longer self defense, it's execution. And they are doing this more and more often, and retards like you cheer them on, though you would scream loud enough if you were the one who was shot like a fish in a barrel by a cop who mistook you for someone who ran a light....

 

[koshergrl]

The objective is not to KILL suspects. Its to bring them into custody. You morons who think it's a good idea to let cops act as judge, jury, executioners arengoing tonseriiusly regret your stupidity in the very near future.

It would be an execution only if they plugged him after he was in custody, or had surrendered and was sitting there with his hands up. When you are still an active threat, there can be no execution.

You get your due process when you allow the process to start, i.e. you submit to lawful authority, not before.

Actually, no. That's not true.

Actually it is.

Actually, no, it's not.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

No death penalty before a trial. I know that LEO walk all over that, and say it's okay. But it's not, it never has been, and they should go to prison when they violate it. And stay there.

That creates an impossible situation for any law enforcement. When you resist lawful arrest, you put your life in your own hands. when you resist lawful arrest with deadly force, deadly force is coming right back at ya.

So what was he doing when they blew him to kingdom come?

Sitting there?

 

[martybegan]

The objective is not to KILL suspects. Its to bring them into custody. You morons who think it's a good idea to let cops act as judge, jury, executioners arengoing tonseriiusly regret your stupidity in the very near future.

It would be an execution only if they plugged him after he was in custody, or had surrendered and was sitting there with his hands up. When you are still an active threat, there can be no execution.

You get your due process when you allow the process to start, i.e. you submit to lawful authority, not before.

Actually, no. That's not true.

Why not? If you go with that line of logic, than that idiot who says "you can't self defend yourself because it violates due process" has a point. Due process is when you are IN the system, and accept it's authority.

Hunkering down and taking pot shots at officers while screaming you are going to kill them is not entering the system.

You DON'T HAVE TO ENTER THE SYSTEM TO GET DUE PROCESS cripes, I thought you had a grasp of the constitution!

And no, it DOESN'T apply to self defense..which this instance was NOT. It would have been self defense if they had killed him while he was shooting. Once he's contained, and not shooting, it's no longer self defense.

He is resisting lawful authority with deadly weapons, he was told to surrender. He didn't. He possibly had demolition devices throughout the area. You are looking for an Ideal Gas Law solution to a real world problem.

He was offered due process, i.e. "surrender now", also known as submitting to a lawful arrest. He refused. At that point it's on him, (both the blame, and the wall) not on the police.

This asshole's due process started with a demand for surrender to lawful authorities. he refused repeatedly. After a few hours, the police had every right to take him out.

 

[martybegan]

It would be an execution only if they plugged him after he was in custody, or had surrendered and was sitting there with his hands up. When you are still an active threat, there can be no execution.

You get your due process when you allow the process to start, i.e. you submit to lawful authority, not before.

Actually, no. That's not true.

Actually it is.

Actually, no, it's not.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

No death penalty before a trial. I know that LEO walk all over that, and say it's okay. But it's not, it never has been, and they should go to prison when they violate it. And stay there.

That creates an impossible situation for any law enforcement. When you resist lawful arrest, you put your life in your own hands. when you resist lawful arrest with deadly force, deadly force is coming right back at ya.

So what was he doing when they blew him to kingdom come?

Sitting there?

Supposedly threatening more death, taking pot shots, and maybe he had demolition devices.

His due process was started when they gave him a lawful order to surrender, repeatedly. He refused, repeatedly. At that point the government met its burden to try to take him alive, and his death is on his own hands.

 

[westwall]

The objective is not to KILL suspects. Its to bring them into custody. You morons who think it's a good idea to let cops act as judge, jury, executioners arengoing tonseriiusly regret your stupidity in the very near future.

No, the objective is to bring them into custody with the minimum amount of risk to the police trying to get the arrest. The scumbag had said his whole goal was to kill more cops. Thus, as anyone with a brain knows, when you are dealing with a fanatic like that there is no reasoning with them. Thus the only option is to incapacitate them and if they have placed themselves within an area where that is not possible in a safe manner, then you blow the hell out of them and pick up the pieces afterwards.

It is their decision that has led to that outcome.

 

[koshergrl]

Actually, no. That's not true.

Actually it is.

Actually, no, it's not.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

No death penalty before a trial. I know that LEO walk all over that, and say it's okay. But it's not, it never has been, and they should go to prison when they violate it. And stay there.

That creates an impossible situation for any law enforcement. When you resist lawful arrest, you put your life in your own hands. when you resist lawful arrest with deadly force, deadly force is coming right back at ya.

So what was he doing when they blew him to kingdom come?

Sitting there?

Supposedly threatening more death, taking pot shots, and maybe he had demolition devices.

His due process was started when they gave him a lawful order to surrender, repeatedly. He refused, repeatedly. At that point the government met its burden to try to take him alive, and his death is on his own hands.

He didn't have demolition devices.
Pot shots meh.
"Supposedly threatening more death"...ooooooohhhhhhhh..

 

[koshergrl]

The objective is not to KILL suspects. Its to bring them into custody. You morons who think it's a good idea to let cops act as judge, jury, executioners arengoing tonseriiusly regret your stupidity in the very near future.

No, the objective is to bring them into custody with the minimum amount of risk to the police trying to get the arrest. The scumbag had said his whole goal was to kill more cops. Thus, as anyone with a brain knows, when you are dealing with a fanatic like that there is no reasoning with them. Thus the only option is to incapacitate them and if they have placed themselves within an area where that is not possible in a safe manner, then you blow the hell out of them and pick up the pieces afterwards.

It is their decision that has led to that outcome.

No reasoning is needed. You just wait him out.

Our cops never do that anymore. They race in guns and bombs blazing. They often take out a lot of innocent bystanders that way..which they of course blame on the people they kill.

 

[martybegan]

Actually it is.

Actually, no, it's not.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

No death penalty before a trial. I know that LEO walk all over that, and say it's okay. But it's not, it never has been, and they should go to prison when they violate it. And stay there.

That creates an impossible situation for any law enforcement. When you resist lawful arrest, you put your life in your own hands. when you resist lawful arrest with deadly force, deadly force is coming right back at ya.

So what was he doing when they blew him to kingdom come?

Sitting there?

Supposedly threatening more death, taking pot shots, and maybe he had demolition devices.

His due process was started when they gave him a lawful order to surrender, repeatedly. He refused, repeatedly. At that point the government met its burden to try to take him alive, and his death is on his own hands.

He didn't have demolition devices.
Pot shots meh.
"Supposedly threatening more death"...ooooooohhhhhhhh..

He was told to surrender. He didn't. Due process does not mean you can refuse a lawful order of arrest by a designated officer.

And hindsight is 20/20.

 

[westwall]

The objective is not to KILL suspects. Its to bring them into custody. You morons who think it's a good idea to let cops act as judge, jury, executioners arengoing tonseriiusly regret your stupidity in the very near future.

No, the objective is to bring them into custody with the minimum amount of risk to the police trying to get the arrest. The scumbag had said his whole goal was to kill more cops. Thus, as anyone with a brain knows, when you are dealing with a fanatic like that there is no reasoning with them. Thus the only option is to incapacitate them and if they have placed themselves within an area where that is not possible in a safe manner, then you blow the hell out of them and pick up the pieces afterwards.

It is their decision that has led to that outcome.

No reasoning is needed. You just wait him out.

Our cops never do that anymore. They race in guns and bombs blazing. They often take out a lot of innocent bystanders that way..which they of course blame on the people they kill.

In a situation like that you simply can't. You are giving the bad guy the initiative and that is fatal. He will choose when he is going to make his move and he will do it almost always at the worst possible time for you. Thus he will get to take his shots and who knows how many other innocents will be harmed. Hell the asshole could simply start shooting randomly into the air which could have deadly consequences to anyone walking up to three miles away. That's simply stupid.

He placed himself into that situation and Due Process WAS followed.

 

[koshergrl]

Actually, no, it's not.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

No death penalty before a trial. I know that LEO walk all over that, and say it's okay. But it's not, it never has been, and they should go to prison when they violate it. And stay there.

That creates an impossible situation for any law enforcement. When you resist lawful arrest, you put your life in your own hands. when you resist lawful arrest with deadly force, deadly force is coming right back at ya.

So what was he doing when they blew him to kingdom come?

Sitting there?

Supposedly threatening more death, taking pot shots, and maybe he had demolition devices.

His due process was started when they gave him a lawful order to surrender, repeatedly. He refused, repeatedly. At that point the government met its burden to try to take him alive, and his death is on his own hands.

He didn't have demolition devices.
Pot shots meh.
"Supposedly threatening more death"...ooooooohhhhhhhh..

He was told to surrender. He didn't. Due process does not mean you can refuse a lawful order of arrest by a designated officer.

And hindsight is 20/20.

And we're back to basic constitution stuff again..IT DOESN'T MATTER. Disobeying a puke with a badge is not "just cause" to be slaughtered. But let me be clear...I understand the nature of lethal force quite well. I appreciate that sometimes people do kill in defense of innocent life and that can be justified.

My objection, in this case, is to the fact that the COPS HAVE ROBOTIC BOMB SQUADS. They don't need that shit. There is absolutely no reason for it. They are testing it out on *criminals* now, but they will be using it on regular people in the very near future. They always do.

And let me tell you something else...the person who believes everything they hear from the press and from the cops in re these matters is a fool.

 

[koshergrl]

The objective is not to KILL suspects. Its to bring them into custody. You morons who think it's a good idea to let cops act as judge, jury, executioners arengoing tonseriiusly regret your stupidity in the very near future.

No, the objective is to bring them into custody with the minimum amount of risk to the police trying to get the arrest. The scumbag had said his whole goal was to kill more cops. Thus, as anyone with a brain knows, when you are dealing with a fanatic like that there is no reasoning with them. Thus the only option is to incapacitate them and if they have placed themselves within an area where that is not possible in a safe manner, then you blow the hell out of them and pick up the pieces afterwards.

It is their decision that has led to that outcome.

No reasoning is needed. You just wait him out.

Our cops never do that anymore. They race in guns and bombs blazing. They often take out a lot of innocent bystanders that way..which they of course blame on the people they kill.

In a situation like that you simply can't. You are giving the bad guy the initiative and that is fatal. He will choose when he is going to make his move and he will do it almost always at the worst possible time for you. Thus he will get to take his shots and who knows how many other innocents will be harmed. Hell the asshole could simply start shooting randomly into the air which could have deadly consequences to anyone walking up to three miles away. That's simply stupid.

He placed himself into that situation and Due Process WAS followed.

COPS DON'T NEED ROBOTIC BOMBERS. When did you become comfortable with militarized death squads who don't answer to anybody?

 

[martybegan]

That creates an impossible situation for any law enforcement. When you resist lawful arrest, you put your life in your own hands. when you resist lawful arrest with deadly force, deadly force is coming right back at ya.

So what was he doing when they blew him to kingdom come?

Sitting there?

Supposedly threatening more death, taking pot shots, and maybe he had demolition devices.

His due process was started when they gave him a lawful order to surrender, repeatedly. He refused, repeatedly. At that point the government met its burden to try to take him alive, and his death is on his own hands.

He didn't have demolition devices.
Pot shots meh.
"Supposedly threatening more death"...ooooooohhhhhhhh..

He was told to surrender. He didn't. Due process does not mean you can refuse a lawful order of arrest by a designated officer.

And hindsight is 20/20.

And we're back to basic constitution stuff again..IT DOESN'T MATTER. Disobeying a puke with a badge is not "just cause" to be slaughtered. But let me be clear...I understand the nature of lethal force quite well. I appreciate that sometimes people do kill in defense of innocent life and that can be justified.

My objection, in this case, is to the fact that the COPS HAVE ROBOTIC BOMB SQUADS. They don't need that shit. There is absolutely no reason for it. They are testing it out on *criminals* now, but they will be using it on regular people in the very near future. They always do.

And let me tell you something else...the person who believes everything they hear from the press and from the cops in re these matters is a fool.

First of all, its a remote controlled device, not a robot. Call it a robotic drone, but its not a robot like people think its a robot, no autonomy.

Second, there is no difference between shooting this guy, collapsing a wall on him, or having a flash bang kill him because it landed too close. This was a unique situation, and cops didn't go to it as plan A.

And those "pukes with a badge" are the gateway to the legal system, if you don't go through the gate, how can the process start?

 

[koshergrl]

So what was he doing when they blew him to kingdom come?

Sitting there?

Supposedly threatening more death, taking pot shots, and maybe he had demolition devices.

His due process was started when they gave him a lawful order to surrender, repeatedly. He refused, repeatedly. At that point the government met its burden to try to take him alive, and his death is on his own hands.

He didn't have demolition devices.
Pot shots meh.
"Supposedly threatening more death"...ooooooohhhhhhhh..

He was told to surrender. He didn't. Due process does not mean you can refuse a lawful order of arrest by a designated officer.

And hindsight is 20/20.

And we're back to basic constitution stuff again..IT DOESN'T MATTER. Disobeying a puke with a badge is not "just cause" to be slaughtered. But let me be clear...I understand the nature of lethal force quite well. I appreciate that sometimes people do kill in defense of innocent life and that can be justified.

My objection, in this case, is to the fact that the COPS HAVE ROBOTIC BOMB SQUADS. They don't need that shit. There is absolutely no reason for it. They are testing it out on *criminals* now, but they will be using it on regular people in the very near future. They always do.

And let me tell you something else...the person who believes everything they hear from the press and from the cops in re these matters is a fool.

First of all, its a remote controlled device, not a robot. Call it a robotic drone, but its not a robot like people think its a robot, no autonomy.

Second, there is no difference between shooting this guy, collapsing a wall on him, or having a flash bang kill him because it landed too close. This was a unique situation, and cops didn't go to it as plan A.

And those "pukes with a badge" are the gateway to the legal system, if you don't go through the gate, how can the process start?

It ISN'T unique. That's my point. And you need to read your constitution, because you obviously don't understand it. The Constitution PROTECTS us from overreach by cops and other government officials and agencies...and when those officials, cops, and agencies dismiss it..and when the people say it's OKAY because the constitution can't be applied unless people submit to those officials, cops, and agencies, it's a loud clarion call that our country is dead.

 

[koshergrl]

Pocket Constitution (Text from the U.S. Bicentennial Commission Edition): Delegates of the Constitutional Convention: 9780880801447: Amazon.com: Books

 

[martybegan]

Supposedly threatening more death, taking pot shots, and maybe he had demolition devices.

His due process was started when they gave him a lawful order to surrender, repeatedly. He refused, repeatedly. At that point the government met its burden to try to take him alive, and his death is on his own hands.

He didn't have demolition devices.
Pot shots meh.
"Supposedly threatening more death"...ooooooohhhhhhhh..

He was told to surrender. He didn't. Due process does not mean you can refuse a lawful order of arrest by a designated officer.

And hindsight is 20/20.

And we're back to basic constitution stuff again..IT DOESN'T MATTER. Disobeying a puke with a badge is not "just cause" to be slaughtered. But let me be clear...I understand the nature of lethal force quite well. I appreciate that sometimes people do kill in defense of innocent life and that can be justified.

My objection, in this case, is to the fact that the COPS HAVE ROBOTIC BOMB SQUADS. They don't need that shit. There is absolutely no reason for it. They are testing it out on *criminals* now, but they will be using it on regular people in the very near future. They always do.

And let me tell you something else...the person who believes everything they hear from the press and from the cops in re these matters is a fool.

First of all, its a remote controlled device, not a robot. Call it a robotic drone, but its not a robot like people think its a robot, no autonomy.

Second, there is no difference between shooting this guy, collapsing a wall on him, or having a flash bang kill him because it landed too close. This was a unique situation, and cops didn't go to it as plan A.

And those "pukes with a badge" are the gateway to the legal system, if you don't go through the gate, how can the process start?

It ISN'T unique. That's my point. And you need to read your constitution, because you obviously don't understand it. The Constitution PROTECTS us from overreach by cops and other government officials and agencies...and when those officials, cops, and agencies dismiss it..and when the people say it's OKAY because the constitution can't be applied unless people submit to those officials, cops, and agencies, it's a loud clarion call that our country is dead.

It doesn't say you can ignore a lawful order by someone who's whole purpose is to get you into the system so you can GET your due process.

You have no legal right to ignore a lawful order from the police. ESPECIALLY when you just killed 5 of them and wounded a bunch more.

 

[koshergrl]

True. But again, ignoring a lawful order is not a capitol offense, nor justification of murder. If he was shooting at the time or there was a reasonable expectation that he would escape...yes. But that was not the case.

 

[koshergrl]

They wanted to use their killing toy. Period.

 

[martybegan]

True. But again, ignoring a lawful order is not a capitol offense, nor justification of murder. If he was shooting at the time or there was a reasonable expectation that he would escape...yes. But that was not the case.

Again, you are applying Ideal Gas Law logic to a real situation. He was armed and dangerous, boxed in, and refusing to surrender. He was also a killer of 5 cops.

 

[martybegan]

They wanted to use their killing toy. Period.

According to current reports, it was improvised, not something they had beforehand.

 

[westwall]

The objective is not to KILL suspects. Its to bring them into custody. You morons who think it's a good idea to let cops act as judge, jury, executioners arengoing tonseriiusly regret your stupidity in the very near future.

No, the objective is to bring them into custody with the minimum amount of risk to the police trying to get the arrest. The scumbag had said his whole goal was to kill more cops. Thus, as anyone with a brain knows, when you are dealing with a fanatic like that there is no reasoning with them. Thus the only option is to incapacitate them and if they have placed themselves within an area where that is not possible in a safe manner, then you blow the hell out of them and pick up the pieces afterwards.

It is their decision that has led to that outcome.

No reasoning is needed. You just wait him out.

Our cops never do that anymore. They race in guns and bombs blazing. They often take out a lot of innocent bystanders that way..which they of course blame on the people they kill.

In a situation like that you simply can't. You are giving the bad guy the initiative and that is fatal. He will choose when he is going to make his move and he will do it almost always at the worst possible time for you. Thus he will get to take his shots and who knows how many other innocents will be harmed. Hell the asshole could simply start shooting randomly into the air which could have deadly consequences to anyone walking up to three miles away. That's simply stupid.

He placed himself into that situation and Due Process WAS followed.

COPS DON'T NEED ROBOTIC BOMBERS. When did you become comfortable with militarized death squads who don't answer to anybody?

When an asshole engages in unthinking murder I have no use for him and have no problem blowing him to tiny little bits. He DID get his due process. He denied it. You're on the wrong side of this one.