So Where Does the 1st Amendment End?

[Tommy Tainant]

This free speech thing. It should be about great thinkers, philosophers, and writers who rail against tyranny. In effect, its just used to protect racist trash from the consequences of their deviancy.

Its a sad state of affairs that the right devalues everything it touches.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

^^^ They are supposed to be, but of course there are people out there who don't care about laws, rules, regulations, etc.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

What you just said has nothing to do with my question.

You claim that school have to prevent shooting, yet saying right after "there are people who don't care about laws, rules, regulations."

If so, please explain, what they have prevented, if people who don't care about laws still bring guns to school?

They are doing what they can to prevent school shootings.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

You said that "there are people who don't care about laws, rules, regulations." You think they would not bring guns to school because it's not permitted? Can you tell me how many school shooters actually respected laws, rules, regulations?

None of them respect the boundaries obviously.

God bless you and the families of their victims always!!!

Holly

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Poor baby white people. They get pissed off when they get called out for being the racist fucks that they are. And those evil black people, not knowing their place & demanding equality.

The pro-diversity crowd lost in 2016. Get used to it.

Amen. You show me diversity and I'll show you discord.

Show me a white supremacist & I'll show you an asshole. You people are such assholes.

So are you and also a coward!

You hide behind a fake name so you can spew your hatred daily and refuse to expose yourself because you know if anyone ever found out what you wrote you would be fired and rightfully so...

You bash the racists while ignoring your own bigotry and hate and you Sir are a damn hypocrite!

 

[Ame®icano]

^^^ They are supposed to be, but of course there are people out there who don't care about laws, rules, regulations, etc.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

What you just said has nothing to do with my question.

You claim that school have to prevent shooting, yet saying right after "there are people who don't care about laws, rules, regulations."

If so, please explain, what they have prevented, if people who don't care about laws still bring guns to school?

They are doing what they can to prevent school shootings.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

You said that "there are people who don't care about laws, rules, regulations." You think they would not bring guns to school because it's not permitted? Can you tell me how many school shooters actually respected laws, rules, regulations?

None of them respect the boundaries obviously.

God bless you and the families of their victims always!!!

Holly

Correct.

Then you would agree that laws don't work with people who don't respect them.

Now, did these kids break any laws?

 

[Ame®icano]

^^^ If a fight/shooting were to happen on school property due to the school's decision to not remove the kids in question, what song would you then be singing if your kid(s) were to become victim/witnesses to the fight/shooting? I highly doubt that it would be the song that I am currently getting from you.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

Let me ask you another question.

I live in the country. I have guns. Suppose I take my son out in the back yard and record him firing off some rounds. He/we share the video online.

Pretty much every school in this country has a "zero tolerance" gun policy. So should his school be able to expel him for it? Because that's what you're advocating for.

Well, it depends if you're wearing MAGA hat, and shirt with "there are only two genders" writing on it.

 

[Ame®icano]

People can say whatever the hell they want to.

Yes they can, but if people have the right to respond to whatever they hear the way that they choose to respond to whatever they hear, is saying whatever you want to really a smart move to make? In other words, maybe the best thing to do is remain quiet until you are willing to deal with whatever takes place after you put out there whatever is on your mind.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

People yes, government no.

Kids did not break any law. And if they're not breaking the law, what they do in their free time, it's of nobody's concern, especially not concern of the government, or a school.

Government have no right to respond to your free speech. There is no law against being a jerk, racists, or simply stupid.

This could be debatable. Back when I was still in high school, a girl in my class wasn't calling who she was talking to any bad names, but what she did choose to say in the presence of the teacher is what got her sent to the principal's office as well as the threatening delivery of her word choice. She had her head down on her desk and when the boy next to her placed his hand on her to wake her up, she got mad and said what she put out there for the whole class to hear, so in other words, it isn't just about what is said. How something is said is what makes a world of difference.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

Apple and oranges. This is public school. It's not school's job to police kids when they're not in school.
Misbehaving in school, and not following school rules is one thing. What kids are doing, or saying, outside of school is not their business.

If what they do outside the school can eventually have a negative impact on what goes on inside the school, then what is done is the school's business and sadly what the guys are guilty of can have a negative impact on what goes on inside. Do I think that they should've been booted from the school if words are the only thing that they are guilty of? No, but because of what their feelings can lead up to later on, some form of restraint/separation may be needed.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

It's not school business to monitor and judge what kids do outside of the school. That's not school purpose, but to educate them. If kids didn't break any laws, it's not school responsibility to find them "guilty" of anything, and to punish them for it. We have a legal system for that.

It may not be the school's responsibility to find students guilty of anything, but it is the school's responsibility to maintain a safe facility for the students to have anything to do with and when students choose to be guilty of belligerent behavior that can lead to life threatening situations, something is to be done right then instead of waiting for a life altering move to happen first. Is removing racist people from the picture in such a way the right move to make? To me, the kids in question should be allowed to finish up their education, but if they can't co-exist in a civil manner with whoever they have an issue with, their education should be completed somewhere else.

God bless you and everyone involved always!!!

Holly

You're talking about school safety?

Okay, when we're gonna start removing socialists teachers from schools? How about kids who play violent games at home?

You want safe schools, start there.

Actually to me, a violent video game for example is the better place for anyone to express whatever negative feelings it is that they may have for another person. If a person doesn't have something like that in their lives to take their frustrations out on, something or someone real is what they may use instead which is what does not need to happen more than it already has.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

"Actually to me"

To you!

You have one opinion, I have another.

Constitution have no opinions, and neither do laws. They're suppose to be equal for everybody. Either, you break the law, or you don't.

Did these kids do inside of school? No. Did they break any law? No. School have no power over their rights.

The rights of the kids who were expelled do not over ride the rights of everyone else at the school and since everyone else at the school outnumber those who were expelled, everyone else at the school are who do not have to pack up and leave.

God bless you and them always!!!

Holly

Huh?

Kids were deprived of their graduation because school overstep their authority. What about their rights?

If they didn't want to lose their right/privilege to attend graduation, they shouldn't have done or said wrong whatever they said or done wrong and at the end of the day, why should their rights be more important compared to the rights of everyone else in the picture especially when everyone else in the picture doesn't have a thing to do with whatever questionable activity took place? To me, those who were removed should just be glad that more rights/privileges weren't ripped away from them. What they lost is something that plenty of other kids may not be getting either due to the Covid 19 issue and so why is this the big deal that some people have turned this matter into?

God bless you and the innocent people who are punished anyways always!!!

Holly

You're speaking as a true statist. You can't regulate free speech, otherwise it's not free speech. Constitution prevents that, therefore government, or any of their tentacles cannot limit it. It doesn't matter how stupid kids acted, or if they're racist, it's not illegal to harbor racist thought or even to espouse them. It's illegal to actually act on those thoughts in many respects, for example you can't refuse to hire someone based on race, or refuse to rent or sell a home based on race, or conspire to commit violence based on race. Thinking, or saying racist things, regardless how ridiculous and stupid they are, is not a crime itself. Racism is wrong, but because speech is protected, it's not illegal.

Even if it isn't illegal, it can lead to activity that is illegal and that right there is the reason why the people in charge of the school responded to what already took place the way that they decided to respond to it.

People can say whatever the hell they want to.

Yes they can, but if people have the right to respond to whatever they hear the way that they choose to respond to whatever they hear, is saying whatever you want to really a smart move to make? In other words, maybe the best thing to do is remain quiet until you are willing to deal with whatever takes place after you put out there whatever is on your mind.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

People yes, government no.

Kids did not break any law. And if they're not breaking the law, what they do in their free time, it's of nobody's concern, especially not concern of the government, or a school.

Government have no right to respond to your free speech. There is no law against being a jerk, racists, or simply stupid.

This could be debatable. Back when I was still in high school, a girl in my class wasn't calling who she was talking to any bad names, but what she did choose to say in the presence of the teacher is what got her sent to the principal's office as well as the threatening delivery of her word choice. She had her head down on her desk and when the boy next to her placed his hand on her to wake her up, she got mad and said what she put out there for the whole class to hear, so in other words, it isn't just about what is said. How something is said is what makes a world of difference.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

Apple and oranges. This is public school. It's not school's job to police kids when they're not in school.
Misbehaving in school, and not following school rules is one thing. What kids are doing, or saying, outside of school is not their business.

If what they do outside the school can eventually have a negative impact on what goes on inside the school, then what is done is the school's business and sadly what the guys are guilty of can have a negative impact on what goes on inside. Do I think that they should've been booted from the school if words are the only thing that they are guilty of? No, but because of what their feelings can lead up to later on, some form of restraint/separation may be needed.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

It's not school business to monitor and judge what kids do outside of the school. That's not school purpose, but to educate them. If kids didn't break any laws, it's not school responsibility to find them "guilty" of anything, and to punish them for it. We have a legal system for that.

It may not be the school's responsibility to find students guilty of anything, but it is the school's responsibility to maintain a safe facility for the students to have anything to do with and when students choose to be guilty of belligerent behavior that can lead to life threatening situations, something is to be done right then instead of waiting for a life altering move to happen first. Is removing racist people from the picture in such a way the right move to make? To me, the kids in question should be allowed to finish up their education, but if they can't co-exist in a civil manner with whoever they have an issue with, their education should be completed somewhere else.

God bless you and everyone involved always!!!

Holly

You're talking about school safety?

Okay, when we're gonna start removing socialists teachers from schools? How about kids who play violent games at home?

You want safe schools, start there.

Actually to me, a violent video game for example is the better place for anyone to express whatever negative feelings it is that they may have for another person. If a person doesn't have something like that in their lives to take their frustrations out on, something or someone real is what they may use instead which is what does not need to happen more than it already has.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

"Actually to me"

To you!

You have one opinion, I have another.

Constitution have no opinions, and neither do laws. They're suppose to be equal for everybody. Either, you break the law, or you don't.

Did these kids do inside of school? No. Did they break any law? No. School have no power over their rights.

The rights of the kids who were expelled do not over ride the rights of everyone else at the school and since everyone else at the school outnumber those who were expelled, everyone else at the school are who do not have to pack up and leave.

God bless you and them always!!!

Holly

Huh?

Kids were deprived of their graduation because school overstep their authority. What about their rights?

If they didn't want to lose their right/privilege to attend graduation, they shouldn't have done or said wrong whatever they said or done wrong and at the end of the day, why should their rights be more important compared to the rights of everyone else in the picture especially when everyone else in the picture doesn't have a thing to do with whatever questionable activity took place? To me, those who were removed should just be glad that more rights/privileges weren't ripped away from them. What they lost is something that plenty of other kids may not be getting either due to the Covid 19 issue and so why is this the big deal that some people have turned this matter into?

God bless you and the innocent people who are punished anyways always!!!

Holly

You want some unelected government desk jockeys watching your actions at home to determine what government programs to deny you?

The people in charge of schools or anywhere for that matter have a responsibility to the lives of everyone else in the picture and so because of how far those who got removed are already willing to go, they got removed in the way that the people in charge saw fit. I don't blame the school officials for doing what they can to make sure that things do not escalate on school property.

God bless you two always!!!

Holly

P.S. At the end of the day, if you can't serve the time, why do the crime? And if you are not sure if what you are wanting to do or say is a crime or not, right then would be the right time to exercise your freedom of learning by asking questions.

Serious question: Do you want to live in a country where you can be punished for what you "might" do?

No other students rights were violated by what these kids did. You don't have the right to be un-offended. That's literally why the 1st Amendment exists.

Find that obscure section of the Constitution where "High Schools shall make no Law" yet?

Government is forbidden from taking punitive action against citizens for engaging in freedom of speech. Public school is a government institution. This has been explained to you ad nauseum. If you're too stupid to understand it that's on you. Your infantile attempts to distort the law are as pathetic as they are wrong, but par for the course of your typical moronic ramblings.

Once AGAIN --- a high school is not "government". "Government" didn't set up behaviour standards for the high school ---- the school itself did that.

Amazing. A government run school is not government.
OK, time to bring back Bible reading and open prayer in schools.
For as you say, it’s not government.

Government runs Carrollton high school now, does it?

Public schools are government schools, dickhead.

By the way, are you still rooting for COVID-19 record numbers?

No, Pogo is right. That’s why he won’t complain students reading the Bible in class.

He would definitely protest Communist manifesto.

 

[Ame®icano]

Poor baby white people. They get pissed off when they get called out for being the racist fucks that they are. And those evil black people, not knowing their place & demanding equality.

The pro-diversity crowd lost in 2016. Get used to it.

Amen. You show me diversity and I'll show you discord.

Show me a white supremacist & I'll show you an asshole. You people are such assholes.

So are you and also a coward!

You hide behind a fake name so you can spew your hatred daily and refuse to expose yourself because you know if anyone ever found out what you wrote you would be fired and rightfully so...

You bash the racists while ignoring your own bigotry and hate and you Sir are a damn hypocrite!

Bingo!

Is it aggressively being racist such as calling someone slurs, telling someone to go back to their own country, and any other explicit action?

Or is it more implicit things that we can’t necessarily prove as racist, but strongly believe to be so? Such as store clerks not treating you great, or not getting into a university despite believing you have the requisite grades and scores, or saying "anchor baby"?

The biggest flaw is how you prove certain things are racist by the people who deem them as such. A lot of it is a matter of perspective.

The questions are: Who is right? Who is wrong? Who decides?

Seeing leftists on this board supporting school decision (which they have no right to decide) to kick those kids out of school and not letting them graduate, when kids did nothing illegal, makes me think what would leftists do if they really had power to decide what can be said, and who can be punished.

 

[Ame®icano]

This free speech thing. It should be about great thinkers, philosophers, and writers who rail against tyranny. In effect, its just used to protect racist trash from the consequences of their deviancy.

Its a sad state of affairs that the right devalues everything it touches.

"free speech thing"

Little tyrant has spoken. It seems UK today is deprived of great thinkers, philosophers, and writers, since you have no free speech right. Who's is fighting for it anyways? You simply accept anything your government decide for you, you just bend over, and take it. It's not just that you have nothing against government ruling over you, you accept it, support it, and love it. Now you know why I call you (and other Brits like you) a faggot.

Tell me, who decides about my alienable rights, Government?

 

[gipper]

Yelling fire in a crowded theater endangers people.

What about saying something people don’t like? Can the government punish you for speech made in your home and gets put on the Internet that is not violent, but racist?

One school district thinks it can.
Remember- the schools are closed until at best next September.

Wish I had a nickel for every stupid thing a teen said in the past year.

Carrollton High seniors expelled after racist video goes viral

Two Carrollton High School seniors were expelled Friday and won’t be allowed to graduate after a racist video they posted online went viral.

www.ajc.com

Do you think all conservatives believe in the first amendment? Clearly some want any criticism of the orange fat boy silenced. Do you understand how that correlates to the first amendment?

That’s the craziest strawman ever. Care to share an example?

I get crazy cons calling me a traitor on this site, damn near every day.

So you can’t find any government actions taken against people for their speech. Didn’t think so.

?

 

[RealDave]

Poor baby white people. They get pissed off when they get called out for being the racist fucks that they are. And those evil black people, not knowing their place & demanding equality.

The pro-diversity crowd lost in 2016. Get used to it.

Amen. You show me diversity and I'll show you discord.

Show me a white supremacist & I'll show you an asshole. You people are such assholes.

So are you and also a coward!

You hide behind a fake name so you can spew your hatred daily and refuse to expose yourself because you know if anyone ever found out what you wrote you would be fired and rightfully so...

You bash the racists while ignoring your own bigotry and hate and you Sir are a damn hypocrite!

Bingo!

Is it aggressively being racist such as calling someone slurs, telling someone to go back to their own country, and any other explicit action?

Or is it more implicit things that we can’t necessarily prove as racist, but strongly believe to be so? Such as store clerks not treating you great, or not getting into a university despite believing you have the requisite grades and scores, or saying "anchor baby"?

The biggest flaw is how you prove certain things are racist by the people who deem them as such. A lot of it is a matter of perspective.

The questions are: Who is right? Who is wrong? Who decides?

Seeing leftists on this board supporting school decision (which they have no right to decide) to kick those kids out of school and not letting them graduate, when kids did nothing illegal, makes me think what would leftists do if they really had power to decide what can be said, and who can be punished.

And only a stupid fucking Trumpette would sent kids to school in the middle of a fucking pandemic.

 

[Ame®icano]

Poor baby white people. They get pissed off when they get called out for being the racist fucks that they are. And those evil black people, not knowing their place & demanding equality.

The pro-diversity crowd lost in 2016. Get used to it.

Amen. You show me diversity and I'll show you discord.

Show me a white supremacist & I'll show you an asshole. You people are such assholes.

So are you and also a coward!

You hide behind a fake name so you can spew your hatred daily and refuse to expose yourself because you know if anyone ever found out what you wrote you would be fired and rightfully so...

You bash the racists while ignoring your own bigotry and hate and you Sir are a damn hypocrite!

Bingo!

Is it aggressively being racist such as calling someone slurs, telling someone to go back to their own country, and any other explicit action?

Or is it more implicit things that we can’t necessarily prove as racist, but strongly believe to be so? Such as store clerks not treating you great, or not getting into a university despite believing you have the requisite grades and scores, or saying "anchor baby"?

The biggest flaw is how you prove certain things are racist by the people who deem them as such. A lot of it is a matter of perspective.

The questions are: Who is right? Who is wrong? Who decides?

Seeing leftists on this board supporting school decision (which they have no right to decide) to kick those kids out of school and not letting them graduate, when kids did nothing illegal, makes me think what would leftists do if they really had power to decide what can be said, and who can be punished.

And only a stupid fucking Trumpette would sent kids to school in the middle of a fucking pandemic.

And how exactly did you came to conclusion that I said anything close to that with both of your brain cells?

 

[jc456]

Clear as a bell ... Imminent lawless action - Wikipedia ...

Remember, the Right of Free Speech belongs to the OWNER of the property ... we can only speak here on the USMB by the owners' leave ... they have the right to regulate on their own message boards ...

so if there really was a fire in a theater, wouldn't you want someone to yell fire? just asking.

 

[jc456]

Poor baby white people. They get pissed off when they get called out for being the racist fucks that they are. And those evil black people, not knowing their place & demanding equality.

The pro-diversity crowd lost in 2016. Get used to it.

Amen. You show me diversity and I'll show you discord.

Show me a white supremacist & I'll show you an asshole. You people are such assholes.

So are you and also a coward!

You hide behind a fake name so you can spew your hatred daily and refuse to expose yourself because you know if anyone ever found out what you wrote you would be fired and rightfully so...

You bash the racists while ignoring your own bigotry and hate and you Sir are a damn hypocrite!

Bingo!

Is it aggressively being racist such as calling someone slurs, telling someone to go back to their own country, and any other explicit action?

Or is it more implicit things that we can’t necessarily prove as racist, but strongly believe to be so? Such as store clerks not treating you great, or not getting into a university despite believing you have the requisite grades and scores, or saying "anchor baby"?

The biggest flaw is how you prove certain things are racist by the people who deem them as such. A lot of it is a matter of perspective.

The questions are: Who is right? Who is wrong? Who decides?

Seeing leftists on this board supporting school decision (which they have no right to decide) to kick those kids out of school and not letting them graduate, when kids did nothing illegal, makes me think what would leftists do if they really had power to decide what can be said, and who can be punished.

And only a stupid fucking Trumpette would sent kids to school in the middle of a fucking pandemic.

if a teacher wants to teach the student, why does that bother you?

 

[jc456]

First Amendment
The First Amendment guarantees freedoms concerning religion, expression, assembly, and the right to petition. It forbids Congress from both promoting one religion over others and also restricting an individual’s religious practices. It guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely. It also guarantees the right of citizens to assemble peaceably and to petition their government.

Learn more...

 

[ReinyDays]

Clear as a bell ... Imminent lawless action - Wikipedia ...

so if there really was a fire in a theater, wouldn't you want someone to yell fire? just asking.

If there was a fire ... then yelling "fire" wouldn't cause imminent lawless actions ...

 

[jc456]

Clear as a bell ... Imminent lawless action - Wikipedia ...

so if there really was a fire in a theater, wouldn't you want someone to yell fire? just asking.

If there was a fire ... then yelling "fire" wouldn't cause imminent lawless actions ...

it still would incite a riot to get out.

 

[Ame®icano]

Clear as a bell ... Imminent lawless action - Wikipedia ...

so if there really was a fire in a theater, wouldn't you want someone to yell fire? just asking.

If there was a fire ... then yelling "fire" wouldn't cause imminent lawless actions ...

Nothing to do with a free speech right.

 

[ReinyDays]

it still would incite a riot to get out.

Cite any law from anywhere that makes it illegal to flee a burning building ...

 

[RealDave]

Poor baby white people. They get pissed off when they get called out for being the racist fucks that they are. And those evil black people, not knowing their place & demanding equality.

The pro-diversity crowd lost in 2016. Get used to it.

Amen. You show me diversity and I'll show you discord.

Show me a white supremacist & I'll show you an asshole. You people are such assholes.

So are you and also a coward!

You hide behind a fake name so you can spew your hatred daily and refuse to expose yourself because you know if anyone ever found out what you wrote you would be fired and rightfully so...

You bash the racists while ignoring your own bigotry and hate and you Sir are a damn hypocrite!

Bingo!

Is it aggressively being racist such as calling someone slurs, telling someone to go back to their own country, and any other explicit action?

Or is it more implicit things that we can’t necessarily prove as racist, but strongly believe to be so? Such as store clerks not treating you great, or not getting into a university despite believing you have the requisite grades and scores, or saying "anchor baby"?

The biggest flaw is how you prove certain things are racist by the people who deem them as such. A lot of it is a matter of perspective.

The questions are: Who is right? Who is wrong? Who decides?

Seeing leftists on this board supporting school decision (which they have no right to decide) to kick those kids out of school and not letting them graduate, when kids did nothing illegal, makes me think what would leftists do if they really had power to decide what can be said, and who can be punished.

And only a stupid fucking Trumpette would sent kids to school in the middle of a fucking pandemic.

if a teacher wants to teach the student, why does that bother you?

So what part of PANDEMIC are you too God Damn stupid to get?

 

[jc456]

Poor baby white people. They get pissed off when they get called out for being the racist fucks that they are. And those evil black people, not knowing their place & demanding equality.

The pro-diversity crowd lost in 2016. Get used to it.

Amen. You show me diversity and I'll show you discord.

Show me a white supremacist & I'll show you an asshole. You people are such assholes.

So are you and also a coward!

You hide behind a fake name so you can spew your hatred daily and refuse to expose yourself because you know if anyone ever found out what you wrote you would be fired and rightfully so...

You bash the racists while ignoring your own bigotry and hate and you Sir are a damn hypocrite!

Bingo!

Is it aggressively being racist such as calling someone slurs, telling someone to go back to their own country, and any other explicit action?

Or is it more implicit things that we can’t necessarily prove as racist, but strongly believe to be so? Such as store clerks not treating you great, or not getting into a university despite believing you have the requisite grades and scores, or saying "anchor baby"?

The biggest flaw is how you prove certain things are racist by the people who deem them as such. A lot of it is a matter of perspective.

The questions are: Who is right? Who is wrong? Who decides?

Seeing leftists on this board supporting school decision (which they have no right to decide) to kick those kids out of school and not letting them graduate, when kids did nothing illegal, makes me think what would leftists do if they really had power to decide what can be said, and who can be punished.

And only a stupid fucking Trumpette would sent kids to school in the middle of a fucking pandemic.

if a teacher wants to teach the student, why does that bother you?

So what part of PANDEMIC are you too God Damn stupid to get?

the part that the stay at home is worse. again new jersey governor, share with the people the numbers you're getting. why are you afraid to do that?