Zone1 Sola scriptura (Scripture alone [is all that's needed]) is demolished with one sentence

[hadit]

Personal experience.

Be assured Catholics do this faithfully--and first and foremost. We also gather as a community, as the Body of Christ, and worship/pray together. (When two or three are gathered...) There is nothing to criticize. If someone else doesn't do it this way, so what? Do you truly feel this is a "My way or the highway" issue?

I feel that when you go outside of Scripture to claim things that are not supported by Scripture, you're getting into dangerous territory. Nowhere, and I mean nowhere in Scripture does it say we are supposed to pray to a dead ancestor.

No kidding. Go to God along with us. Have you ever read some of Peter's biblical antics? He definitely needs a leader above him, but he is a great associate to all who also need that Leader. He gets our own "foot in mouth" moments!

Is St Peter greater than you and deserving of supplications for help? Where does Scripture say that?

 

[hadit]

Personal experience. Ever have anyone who has passed on ask for your prayers?

No, and how does a dead ancestor ask you to pray to them?

 

[Meriweather]

If you can't find it in Scripture (I know you can't), just admit it's not in there and you get it from somewhere else.

It is of God, whom I came to know as a child before I studied scripture. Have you known God, or is all you know, Scripture? There is a difference.

 

[Libby von H]

So if Jesus taught sola scriptura, that means that everything HE said and did is to be ignored!

very logical

By your logic we would not even know of a Jesus, would we.

"“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
He couldn't be referring to anything, and He couldn't be fulfilling anything, and there would be nobody to declare success or failure.
But you weren't thinking, actually, were you

 

[Meriweather]

Yet she believed that He would listen more to Mary than he would to her, and I believe that the vast majority of Catholics believe that as well, given their insistence on praying to her.

So she has great faith that God listens to some, and she follows these people of great faith to God. What is the problem? You prefer she didn't draw closer to God by asking Mary to take her under her wing?

 

[Meriweather]

I feel that when you go outside of Scripture to claim things that are not supported by Scripture, you're getting into dangerous territory. Nowhere, and I mean nowhere in Scripture does it say we are supposed to pray to a dead ancestor.

Then you hold the belief that God forbids us speaking to our brothers, sisters, friends...to anyone but Him? Anything that is not in the Bible, God forbids?

If any of your ancestors asked for your prayers, you would deny them prayers?

 

[Meriweather]

Is St Peter greater than you and deserving of supplications for help?

Is St. Peter less than I?

 

[Meriweather]

No, and how does a dead ancestor ask you to pray to them?

All Souls Day, where every year Catholics pray for those who have gone before us. Being a kid, I was unsure that I had been any help at all to anyone. I asked God to show me if I had, and show me, He did.

I was relating this account to a friend, someone who had recently converted to Catholicism. She confided in me that she was still holding on to the belief that once a person died, his/her fate was decided and nothing could be done.

Her father-in-law had passed, and unusual things were happening around their home. He had lived with them his final years, and after his death, the lamp he had used began to turn on. Naturally, the lamp needed rewiring, correct? They had it rewired. Lamp would still turn on. They moved it and put another lamp in its place. No change.

My friend went home, and when the lamp turned itself on, she asked, "Is that you? Do you want me to pray for you? The lamp responded. It turned off and then back on. So the family began praying for him, and the lamp stopped what it had been doing.

We are closer than those who have passed on than we might think we are.

 

[hadit]

It is of God, whom I came to know as a child before I studied scripture. Have you known God, or is all you know, Scripture? There is a difference.

Scripture has lead me to know God, and He does not tell me things that are not supported by Scripture.

 

[hadit]

So she has great faith that God listens to some, and she follows these people of great faith to God. What is the problem? You prefer she didn't draw closer to God by asking Mary to take her under her wing?

I prefer that she come to understand that, through the name of Jesus, we can ALL speak directly to God. That is what Jesus taught. And again, Mary is not capable of listening to millions of people simultaneously and "taking them under her wing". There's literally so Scriptural backing for that idea.

 

[Meriweather]

Scripture has lead me to know God, and He does not tell me things that are not supported by Scripture.

Then is Scripture like the middle man through whom you know God? Would you know God without Scripture?

 

[hadit]

Then you hold the belief that God forbids us speaking to our brothers, sisters, friends...to anyone but Him? Anything that is not in the Bible, God forbids?

Now you're projecting ideas onto me. God forbids that which contradicts Scripture, and worshipping dead ancestors does that.

If any of your ancestors asked for your prayers, you would deny them prayers?

My ancestors are either at rest with Christ right now or are suffering apart from Him, and in neither case are my prayers going to impact their situation. The Bible is clear. You die, then the judgement.

Hebrews 9:

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

 

[Meriweather]

I prefer that she come to understand that, through the name of Jesus, we can ALL speak directly to God. That is what Jesus taught. And again, Mary is not capable of listening to millions of people simultaneously and "taking them under her wing". There's literally so Scriptural backing for that idea.

I can assure you she also speaks directly to God. How is what she is doing different from what you are doing? She asks Mary to be at her side, and you use scripture for the same purpose. Have you considered you do not need scripture to know God? You lean heavily on scripture, and this woman leans on Mary. Both of you are on the same quest: To draw closer to God.

 

[hadit]

Then is Scripture like the middle man through whom you know God? Would you know God without Scripture?

I can, if the Scripture is not available to me, but a voice who gives me anything contrary to Scripture is not to be listened to.

 

[Meriweather]

Now you're projecting ideas onto me. God forbids that which contradicts Scripture, and worshipping dead ancestors does that.

Talking with those who have passed on is far from worship! I am certain you know and understand that.

 

[hadit]

I can assure you she also speaks directly to God. How is what she is doing different from what you are doing? She asks Mary to be at her side, and you use scripture for the same purpose. Have you considered you do not need scripture to know God? You lean heavily on scripture, and this woman leans on Mary. Both of you are on the same quest: To draw closer to God.

Except, as I have pointed out, there is no reason to believe that Mary is paying any attention or is capable of helping millions of people begging for her help at the same time. You walk a dangerous line veering away from Scripture. Do you honestly believe that something that contradicts Scripture is Spiritually authoritative?

 

[hadit]

Talking with those who have passed on is far from worship! I am certain you know and understand that.

You're doing more than just talking with them when you give them higher spiritual authority than yourself and beg for their help in reaching God when He is right there, already listening with far greater attention and devotion than any human can possibly listen. Why do you assume that God is out of reach and you need an amplifier for Him to hear you?

What does God have to say about those who speak with the dead, aka mediums? Please give me some verses. If you won't, I will.

Isaiah 8

19 And when they say to you, “Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter,” should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living? 20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there[o] is no light in them.

 

[hadit]

Is St. Peter less than I?

We are equal at the foot of the cross. We can all approach God's throne without hesitation and in Jesus' name because of His sacrifice. Peter has an exalted position close to Christ, I'm sure, because he was an obedient apostle, but he's every bit as human as I am. There is no reason or need to appeal to him when we can appeal directly to God.

 

[Meriweather]

Except, as I have pointed out, there is no reason to believe that Mary is paying any attention or is capable of helping millions of people begging for her help at the same time. You walk a dangerous line veering away from Scripture. Do you honestly believe that something that contradicts Scripture is Spiritually authoritative?

We agree that scripture is a witness to God, right? Do you believe there have been no other witnesses, are not other witnesses, will be no other witnesses to God? Have you ever read any of the testimonies of actual people who are witnesses of how Mary helped them to seek God?

You don't have to believe them, you can close your mind, heart, and soul to them, but have you thought about at least giving them hearing?

 

[hadit]

All Souls Day, where every year Catholics pray for those who have gone before us. Being a kid, I was unsure that I had been any help at all to anyone. I asked God to show me if I had, and show me, He did.

I was relating this account to a friend, someone who had recently converted to Catholicism. She confided in me that she was still holding on to the belief that once a person died, his/her fate was decided and nothing could be done.

Her father-in-law had passed, and unusual things were happening around their home. He had lived with them his final years, and after his death, the lamp he had used began to turn on. Naturally, the lamp needed rewiring, correct? They had it rewired. Lamp would still turn on. They moved it and put another lamp in its place. No change.

My friend went home, and when the lamp turned itself on, she asked, "Is that you? Do you want me to pray for you? The lamp responded. It turned off and then back on. So the family began praying for him, and the lamp stopped what it had been doing.

We are closer than those who have passed on than we might think we are.

Okay, so she had a lamp that turned itself on and off. Does your friend know for sure it was being manipulated by her FIL, or could it be from another paranormal entity that was trying to pull her away from Scripture and truth? IOW, did she test the spirit or just blindly accept Catholic doctrine that it was her FIL?