Zone1 Sola scriptura (Scripture alone [is all that's needed]) is demolished with one sentence

[hadit]

If Jesus wanted us to go be Scripture alone, which He didn't, He would not have had to come to Earth since the only Scripture available in the days when Christ walked the Earth were

in the OLD Testament.

Are you saying that Jesus' own words are not Scripture?

 

[K9Buck]

Are you saying that Jesus' own words are not Scripture?

He doesn't care about the scriptures. He's Catholic. Catholics don't need scriptures. They just make it up as they go.

 

[hadit]

I did. "When two or more..." You, do understand, don't you, that no one is limited to only asking Mary to pray with them?

We've talked about this before. Why do you think she's listening? We are to pray in the name of Jesus because His is the only name that allows us to approach God's throne without animal sacrifice.

 

[K9Buck]

We've talked about this before. Why do you think she's listening? We are to pray in the name of Jesus because His is the only name that allows us to approach God's throne without animal sacrifice.

You don't need God; you need the Pope, the true "Holy Father". The Pope says that we should pray to Mary and their dead "saints", not God. Who needs God and who needs the Bible when you can worship the Pope?

 

[hadit]

You don't need God; you need the Pope, the true "Holy Father". The Pope says that we should pray to Mary and their dead "saints", not God. Who needs God and who needs the Bible when you can worship the Pope?

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That's what gets me. It's like they believe that God can't handle all the prayers coming at Him and needs to farm out the work to subordinates. My response to that, of course, is why do we think they're listening? Why do we think the power to hear millions of people all praying different things at the same time, then act on those prayers? Like we've been saying, nowhere does Scripture ever indicate that humans are equipped with the ability to do that.

I've asked that directly and gotten no coherent response.

 

[K9Buck]

It's like they believe that God can't handle all the prayers coming at Him and needs to farm out the work

It's worse than that. The Catholic Church REMOVES God and replaces him with others. You don't need God; you have Mary. You don't need God; you have the saints. You can't absolve your sins directly through God, you need a priest.

 

[Meriweather]

We've talked about this before. Why do you think she's listening?

Consider not the power of Mary, but the power of prayer.

 

[Meriweather]

You don't need God; you need the Pope, the true "Holy Father". The Pope says that we should pray to Mary and their dead "saints", not God. Who needs God and who needs the Bible when you can worship the Pope?

You speak another untruth that does not deserve to be pursued.

Out of curiosity, have you ever done a deep dive into Exodus?

 

[K9Buck]

You speak another untruth that does not deserve to be pursued.

Out of curiosity, have you ever done a deep dive into Exodus?

I inherited apostolic authority and I encourage you and others to pray to Noah.

 

[Meriweather]

That's what gets me. It's like they believe that God can't handle all the prayers coming at Him and needs to farm out the work to subordinates. My response to that, of course, is why do we think they're listening? Why do we think the power to hear millions of people all praying different things at the same time, then act on those prayers? Like we've been saying, nowhere does Scripture ever indicate that humans are equipped with the ability to do that.

I've asked that directly and gotten no coherent response.

It is like we believe in the power of prayer, of all the times Biblical people gathered to pray together. It's like we remember Jesus saying, "When two or three of you..."

 

[Meriweather]

I inherited apostolic authority and I encourage you and others to pray to Noah.

Noah is Genesis. Have you done a deep dive into Exodus?

 

[Meriweather]

The Catholic Church REMOVES God

Another untruth. Don't pursue the lie.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

The beauty of being able to ignore scripture is that one can make up anything they like. For instance, I could claim to be an ancestor of one of the apostles who has inherited "apostolic succession" and so I have the authority from God to make up anything I like. Who needs the Bible?

I could write a book and claim that it was inspired by God. Who needs the Bible?

 

[hadit]

Consider not the power of Mary, but the power of prayer.

Now you're just trying to be coy. We know that God is all powerful and omnipresent, and it is He that we want to hear us. We are commanded to pray in Jesus' name when we come to the Father's throne, not Mary's, not James', not Peter's, only Jesus'. To pray to someone is to acknowledge that they are greater than yourself, and Jesus told us that we do NOT determine who is greater in the kingdom, He does. Thus, it is not our place to elevate a mere human to divinity, where they are able to hear millions of prayers daily.

Mary, James, Peter, and all of the other saints are human, they are NOT omnipresent and are NOT divine. Thus, they are NOT equipped to hear from millions of people all at the same time, beseeching them to do things. From where do you get the idea that they are paying rapt attention to what's going on here on earth and are fielding millions of prayers daily when they're in the presence of the One they love more than any other, and in many cases died for His name?

Please tell me what Scripture verses say any human is hooked up to God's switchboard, taking millions of prayer requests daily.

 

[hadit]

It is like we believe in the power of prayer, of all the times Biblical people gathered to pray together. It's like we remember Jesus saying, "When two or three of you..."

Okay, and I will repeat, from where do you get the idea that there are HUMANS in heaven right now, listening and comprehending the prayers of millions of people every single day? Yes, where only a few are gathered in Jesus' name, WHO is there with them? Please name Him. I do believe that name will not be Mary, James, Peter, etc. I know you think that by saying you're "asking Mary to pray with you", you're avoiding the stigma of praying to Mary, but consider what prayer is. It is beseeching a more powerful higher power to act on your behalf, is it not? Millions of times a day Christians gather in groups and Jesus is there with them. Mary is human, and I will keep asking you, why do you think she is even CAPABLE of being with millions of small groups of Christians who meet every single day?

1. From where do you get the idea that she is capable of listening to millions of you?
2. From where do you get the idea that she is even listening to you, if she was capable?
3. From where do you get the idea that she is any more capable of taking your request to God's heart than you are yourself? And yes, I've heard Catholics say that they think Jesus will listen to her because she was His earthly mother. That insults Jesus, who made us all priests. There is no need for any other intercessor between us and God, who is fully capable of hearing us without the need for any other human being involved. In fact, He wants it that way. Remember that there will be many thrown away from Him who lived their whole lives thinking they were doing great things for God and He owes them because, as He says, "I never knew you", so why risk Mary forgetting your request or not hearing it when you know full well that God always hears and never forgets?

 

[K9Buck]

Please tell me what Scripture verses...

He doesn't follow the scriptures; he follows the Pope.

 

[Meriweather]

Now you're just trying to be coy. We know that God is all powerful and omnipresent, and it is He that we want to hear us.

No coyness at all. I am merely pointing out people pray together. We pray together without worshiping anyone but God. Catholics pray together, with both the living and those who have passed on.

If non-Catholic Christians limit praying to God to just oneself, I don't criticize it, and am frankly puzzled why non-Catholic Christians care how Catholics pray. Why place limits on Catholic prayer?

And, have you noticed, In order to have a leg to stand on, non-Catholic Christians must always describe our community prayer as something it is not--i.e. worship.

Could it be some non-Catholic Christians do this to reassure themselves they are not missing out on anything?

 

[Meriweather]

Mary, James, Peter, and all of the other saints are human, they are NOT omnipresent and are NOT divine.

Duh. They are fellow members of the Body of Christ, the community of saints. This community can pray together.

Thus, they are NOT equipped to hear from millions of people all at the same time, beseeching them to do things

Is that how non-Catholics pray? They ask for things?

 

[ding]

He doesn't follow the scriptures; he follows the Pope.

This is you bearing false witness against your neighbor. Repent.

 

[Meriweather]

Okay, and I will repeat, from where do you get the idea that there are HUMANS in heaven right now, listening and comprehending the prayers of millions of people every single day? Yes, where only a few are gathered in Jesus' name, WHO is there with them? Please name Him. I do believe that name will not be Mary, James, Peter, etc. I know you think that by saying you're "asking Mary to pray with you", you're avoiding the stigma of praying to Mary, but consider what prayer is. It is beseeching a more powerful higher power to act on your behalf, is it not? Millions of times a day Christians gather in groups and Jesus is there with them. Mary is human, and I will keep asking you, why do you think she is even CAPABLE of being with millions of small groups of Christians who meet every single day?

Do you ever demand someone explain why golfers must kick a ball through the goal post if they want three extra points? One must understand Catholic prayer in order to have an intelligent discussion. You apparently think prayer is about asking for things.

Has a Catholic ever explained ACTS to you?
Adoration of God
Contrition
Thankfulness to God
Supplication

So you don't want anyone around during your adoration of God, or when you are sorry, when you expressing thanks, etc. Nothing wrong with that. So why declare it is wrong to do it within a group? I guess the people of your religion never pray for healing of an ailing member. Again, not a problem. Why do you consider it a problem when I do? How does it hurt you?