Supreme Court: 2nd amendment applies to states as well

[Dr Grump]

Note to Dr. Gump:

You would greatly benefit from the reading and careful study of The Creature from Jekyll Island.

Just sayin'.

And you'd be better served sitting around watching these

Just sayin'....

 

[daveman]

America is one of the most unregulated, capatilistic countries in the western world.

"Most unregulated" does not equal "unregulated". Need some help moving the goalposts?

 

[JakeStarkey]

What a fantasy...

There has not been "unfettered capitalism " nor has any such thing been as "proven by the meltdown."

If there are libraries where you are, see if you can find a book about Theodore Roosevelt, the 'Trust Buster'...

Should you require it, I'd been happy to instruct you on the provenance of the 'meltdown,' and the governmental role therein.

America is one of the most unregulated, capatilistic countries in the western world.

And no, the only thing I have ever learned from you on this messageboard is that you are a partisan hack with a skewed world view on the political and financial landscapes....

She is indeed.

 

[JakeStarkey]

America is one of the most unregulated, capatilistic countries in the western world.

"Most unregulated" does not equal "unregulated". Need some help moving the goalposts?

No regulation of business would destroy the peoples' liberties.

 

[CMike]

How interesting that a conservative court is using liberal concept of incorporation. This was an issue that was best left to states' rights, but the court has decreed a monumental statist decision. Who knew the conservatives were secret collectivists?

Another idiot that ignores the Constitution.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

That is the 14th Amendment of the Constitution of the United Sates. It quite clearly states that all rights guaranteed in the Constitution cannot be restricted by the sates.

Another point, taking power away from a state is not statist.

Yup, I find it interesting you arguing as a liberal for this point. Yes, it is statist, and now you are a collectivist. Do you agree that the court had the right to impose Roe on the states.

Roe is not in the constitution.

The 2nd Amendment IS in the constitution.

That's a BIG difference.

 

[Dr Grump]

America is one of the most unregulated, capatilistic countries in the western world.

"Most unregulated" does not equal "unregulated". Need some help moving the goalposts?

Fits the bill IMO.....and puts it ahead of any other western country....

 

[boedicca]

America may be been the most unregulated, capitalistic country in the western world at one time, but most of the 20th century was spent in heading it towards Statist Cronyism, the full flowering of which we are experiencing today.

 

[CMike]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

What is unclear?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Another idiot that ignores the Constitution.




That is the 14th Amendment of the Constitution of the United Sates. It quite clearly states that all rights guaranteed in the Constitution cannot be restricted by the sates.

Another point, taking power away from a state is not statist.

Yup, I find it interesting you arguing as a liberal for this point. Yes, it is statist, and now you are a collectivist. Do you agree that the court had the right to impose Roe on the states.

Roe does not exist in the Constitution. They made it up.

Rights for fetuses do not exist in the Constitution. The right of privacy does. A woman aborting a fetus as an exercise of her right of privacy is not violating anyone else's rights.

 

[boedicca]

America is one of the most unregulated, capatilistic countries in the western world.

"Most unregulated" does not equal "unregulated". Need some help moving the goalposts?

No regulation of business would destroy the peoples' liberties.

I call shenanigans.

How does forcing people to buy health insurance against their will not destroy their liberty?

 

[JakeStarkey]

cmike, do none of you understand what "incorporation" means constitutionally? The principle of incorporation is a statist mechanism, is liberalism indeed. If you support this decision, you support statism, you support liberalism, and in doing so, you have either changed your beliefs or you are a hypocrite.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"Most unregulated" does not equal "unregulated". Need some help moving the goalposts?

No regulation of business would destroy the peoples' liberties.

I call shenanigans.

How does forcing people to buy health insurance against their will not destroy their liberty?

I call you hypocrite, for no one is forced to buy health insurance. Stop the lie now.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Note the definition of Statism as posted by The T. You don't think your Fed Reserve (ie, the monetary entity that comes under your centralised - ie, Federal, not state govt(s) - doesn't have control over economic planning or policy? Or that your Congress or Senate (another part of your centralised govt.) doesn't either?

Yes, they do. And they shouldn't. Unlimited government control, like that you espouse, is unsustainable and anti-freedom.

And yet unfettered capitalism is sustainable as proven by the meltdown....?

Depends on your definition of freedom....

The meltdown was not the result of unfettered capitalism, it was the result of regulated capitalism. If I can apply the same logic you seem to be applying, we should abandon regulation because it obviously failed.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why is that liberals lie, and don't want to admit that that they are liberals?

I have never had a problem identifying myself as a liberal. Now show me where I have lied. Ever.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, they do. And they shouldn't. Unlimited government control, like that you espouse, is unsustainable and anti-freedom.

And yet unfettered capitalism is sustainable as proven by the meltdown....?

Depends on your definition of freedom....

The meltdown was not the result of unfettered capitalism, it was the result of regulated capitalism. If I can apply the same logic you seem to be applying, we should abandon regulation because it obviously failed.

False logic by you, QWB.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

America is one of the most unregulated, capatilistic countries in the western world.

"Most unregulated" does not equal "unregulated". Need some help moving the goalposts?

No regulation of business would destroy the peoples' liberties.

And you call me a statist?

I feel a lot better now that I know the real problem is you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[The T]

Nothing wrong with Statism...sounds like a good idea....

No it isn't.

It denies the individual Liberty at the behest of Government that doesn't have the interest of that individual at heart...but rather to the group mentality.

Sorry...but YOU are dangerous.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The second amendment is the sodom and gomorrah story of the Constitution. There is nothing in the 2nd explicitly affirming individual rights to own weapons but only under a well regulated militia I fully support the right to own guns but it's not in the 2nd amendment.

You must be a Prince fan, seein' that you party like it's 1995.

Get with the program...

a. “…well regulated militia…” Consider the sentence “Being a fisherman, Joe needs a boat.” Does this mean that Joe should only buy a boat if he fishes for a living? The reference to a militia is a reason why the people have a right to arms, but it is not the only reason.
“When the words of the enacting clause are clear and positive, recourse must not be had to the preamble.” James Kent, Commentaries on American Law, 1858 (Legal scholar and law professor at Columbia College)

In the Constitution, Congress is given the power “to promote the Progress of Science and the useful Arts” by enacting copyright and patent laws (Article 1, Section 8). Would you argue that every copyright work or patented invention must promote scientific progress and useful arts?
George Mason, Father of the Bill of Rights:"I ask, Who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." (Jonathan Elliot, The Debates of the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, [NY: Burt Franklin,1888] p.425-6)

The Constitution gave Congress the power to raise and support a national army, and to organize “the Militia.” This is because an army didn’t naturally exist, while “the Militia” only had to be organized: it always existed. (See enumerated powers in Article 1,Section 8.)
The Supreme Court, in US v. Miller, (1939) “…militia system…implied the general obligation of all adult male inhabitants to possess arms, and, with certain exceptions, to cooperate in the work of defence.” It concluded that the militia was primarily civilians.
Today, federal law defines “the militia of the United States” to include all able-bodied males from 17 to 45 andmembers of the National Guard up to age 64, but excluding those who have no intention of becoming citizens, and active military personnel. (US Code Title 10, sect. 311-313)

b. “…well-regulated…” Regulated does not refer to government regulations. Contemporary meaning from definitions in the Oxford English Dictionary. "Regulated" has an Obsolete definition (b) "Of troops: Properly disciplined" and then "discipline" has a definition (3b) applying to the military, "Training in the practice of arms and military evolutions; drill. Formerly, more widely: Training or skill in military affairs generally; military skill and experience; the art of war." (The pesky meaning of "Well Regulated" - Democratic Underground)

This is what I'm talking about. All of that dancing and it does nothing to address the fact there is no individual guarantee in the 2nd.

Nice and slow:
1. Your inability or purposeful misunderstanding is not 'All of that dancing."

2. The Constitution is known as the Supreme Law of the Land

3. George Mason wrote the Bill of Rights. He stated "the whole people..."= militia

4. If the militia has the right to arms, and the militia is "the whole people".. then everybody has he right to be armed.

now get this: if the militia is the whole people, then individuals are part of the group that has the right to arms.

Now, you may continue to play dumb.

 

[Dr Grump]

The meltdown was not the result of unfettered capitalism, it was the result of regulated capitalism. If I can apply the same logic you seem to be applying, we should abandon regulation because it obviously failed.

Maybe i was a bit too heavy on the rhetoric. How do you feel about some of these CEOs and directors of finance companies that almost went bust (and almost took your economy with it) getting million $$ bonuses? Does that sit well with you? If so, why? If not, what can be done about it, as the current US admin tries to put regulations in place to stop these people doing it all over again just so they can have a house in the Hamptons, or get that $10 million Lear jet?

 

[daveman]

cmike, do none of you understand what "incorporation" means constitutionally? The principle of incorporation is a statist mechanism, is liberalism indeed. If you support this decision, you support statism, you support liberalism, and in doing so, you have either changed your beliefs or you are a hypocrite.

Statism and liberalism support greater restrictions on individual freedom.

So...looks like you're wrong.